Guardian Cryptic 28,800 by Vulcan

63 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 28,800 by Vulcan”

1. Thought this was a fun start to the week and made good progress until I got to the SW which held me up a little.

   Lots of clues made me smile particularly: CASE LAW, JAM SESSION, ENGRAVERS

   Thanks Vulcan and manehi

2. Thanks Vulcan and manehi
   Lots to enjoy. Particular favourites were ENGRAVERS, CASE LAW, RIO GRANDE, and JAM SESSION.
   I think 18a would word better without the “Not this”.
   Gondolas are rowed, not punted!

3. Smiles for me, also. I lied the Paul-ish “mercy” and the Rufus-esque “engravers.” Starting at top left to begin with I had a brief moment of thinking this was going to be tricky for a Monday. It wasn’t, but it was sweet as a nut. Thanks for blog and for the crossword.

4. liked

5. Totally agree with your comments manehi. TYPO and RIO GRANDE were my favourites too, also ENGRAVERS for the misleading chase. However I do dislike the use of “knocked up” for pREGNANT. But apart from that, nice start to the week.

   Thanks Vulcan and manehi.

6. Yes, lots of good clues – for me, MERCY and ENGRAVERS in particular. Thanks to V & m.

7. I agree with muffin @2 re GONDOLAS. Why do setters keep getting this wrong?

8. A nice crossword with a good variety of clues.

   30a RIO GRANDE was cleverly misleading, with “ordering” initially suggesting an anagram indicator rather than being part of the anagram.

   16d WHEAT could be said to be an extended definition / semi &lit / clue as definition / whatever we want to call it today.

   Many thanks Vulcan and manehi.

9. Nice Monday puzzle – with some entertaining misleading definitions – the chasers in ENGRAVERS and the flower along the border for RIO GRANDE.

   Thank you to manehi and Vulcan.

10. Plenty to like here. My favourites were ESPY, PROFFER, HANG OUT, BIDET, AGARIC, ENGRAVERS, WEEVIL, MERCY, TYPO (loi).

    New DECIGRAM (it seems ironic that imperial measures revert to metric for fractions of measures and it might upset certain goverment ministers who want to ‘bring British culture back’ via imperial measures).

    Thanks, both.

11. Only got about two thirds out. I’d not heard of REGNANT, nor that meaning of “knocked up”. I wasted a lot of time trying to work out why 17a was PUTIN. Was unaware that a mob is a bonnet, hadn’t heard of Women’s Institute, nor the Swedish ovens.

12. Is MERCY a homograph? I’m all in favour as it avoids the usual quibbles we get with homophones 🙂

    Also a fan of RIO GRANDE, JAM SESSION and I did like the GONDOLIER anagram despite the inaccuracy and consoled myself by imagining them rowing to the Venice branch of Ladbrokes for a PUNT or perhaps punting a football along the Cannaregio

13. michelle@10 Imperial doesnt revert to metric for fractions of measures (as far as I know) it’s just that a DECIGRAM is a very small fraction of an ounce, approx 0.0035 . It is one tenth of a gram, but the setter could hardly put gram in the clue and solution. A fraction, one sixteenth, of an ounce is a drachm. I don’t know if there are others.

14. Nice puzzle with ticks at ENGRAVERS & RIO GRANDE.

    However, don’t really understand MOB for the reasons muffin give above, and I didn’t feel that MERCY works, since everyone I know pronounces the car with a hard k.

    That aside, enjoyable start to the week.

15. To CAP someone is to kill them in mob-speak which maybe explains the”not this”?

16. It all went in fairly readily apart from REGNANT. Enjoyment was had from MERCY, GONDOLIER (see below), JAM SESSION (LOL with visions of ladies shredding a guitar rather than an orange), FAR EASTERN (for a nice split) and WHEAT (great surface).

    muffin @2 and Hovis @7, we had the discussion about Gondoliers back in April with Picaroon. I’m prepared as then to give a little leeway.

    Geoff Down Under @11, For Women’s Institute, think Country Women’s Association, except the scones won’t have pumpkin in them.

17. William @14: as bodycheetah suggests @12, MERCY is not intended as a homophone. You could whimsically describe something similar to a Mercedes as Merc-y (with a hard C) and that gives you the right letters (not sound) for MERCY.

18. All been said. Well spotted Body Bodycheetah @15.

    Ta Vulcan & manehi.

19. Oops, so good I named you twice.

20. Had a momentary pro-feminist eyebrow twitch at 6d. I mean, I know they do make jam, but … ?

21. Tim C @16. I missed that discussion. To say a gondolier ‘punts’ a gondola is a popular misconception so, in that sense, the mistake can be forgiven but I would still say it is a mistake. The verbs ‘row’ and ‘propel’ are valid. Over time, popular misconceptions become valid through usage so maybe that’s already the case here.

22. Re. gondoliers don’t punt: the misconception arises, I think, because the gondoliers use a “sculling” technique with one oar over the stern of the boat to propel it. See . Those who are not aware of this technique, see a man using a long pole at the stern of the boat and assume they are doing the same as punters on the Cam.

23. Good start to the week, with some amusing clues. Favourites were RIO GRANDE, JAM SESSION and FAR EASTERN. GONDOLIER has a good anagrind, but I also tut-tutted at the def 🙂

    I agree with others that MERCY is a homograph, which makes it a bit more cryptic than the usual use of the whimsical ‘-y’ device.

    michelle @10 and Crossbar @13: Another archaic measure is the grain, defined as 1/7000 of a pound avoirdupois, ie about 0.00229 oz, even less than a DECIGRAM.

    Thanks to S&B

24. [Aaaargh! Hyperlink fail.]
    Re. gondoliers don’t punt: the misconception arises, I think, because the gondoliers use a “sculling” technique with one oar over the stern of the boat to propel it. See here . Those who are not aware of this technique, see a man using a long pole at the stern of the boat and assume they are doing the same as punters on the Cam.

25. [I’m sorry. My brain has gone to mush. That last sentence @24 should read: “Those who are not aware of this technique see a man using a long pole at the stern of the boat and assume he is doing the same as a punter on the Cam.”]

26. I particularly enjoyed the tricksy use of “chase” in the clue for ENGRAVERS.

27. 15 across might be controversial. Wales isn’t a principality. Tourism minister Lord Elis -Thomas wants to promote it as one but Plaid Cymru leader Leanne Wood denounced the idea as an “out-dated gimmick”. The Oxford English Dictionary describes a principality as “the territory held or governed by a prince”.
    Wales has not been a principality since the 16th century and the Welsh Government itself has denied that Wales is one. (BBC News site)

28. Pretty good fun for a Monday!

    Another vote for RIO GRANDE – also liked CASE LAW and REGNANT.

    Thanks Vulcan and manehi

29. Mostly straightforward, but I don’t understand the definition for DECIGRAM, other than a gram being smaller than an ounce and hence a fraction of one is a fraction of the other. Very awkward in my opinion.

30. Yes, SueB @27, 15ac flickered an eyebrow here too, wondering how much residual Welsh resentment remains since, er, Edward Longshanks ( 🙂 )

31. (PS: the smiley is not making light of Welsh feeling)

32. pserve @22, I have seen old fishermen doing what yr link shows, rowing out to the boat by propelling a dinghy, making a sort of figure-eight stroke with a single stern oar. Did a summer season on a cray boat, circa ’68; lots of the older skippers were refugees from European fishing towns: Italian, Portuguese, Greek, Croatian, etc.

33. Good start to the week, which I found slightly trickier than usual – or is it just my fuzzy head?

    I think the ‘not this’ in 18 refers to the fact that a mobcap is not something you’re likely to see a gangster wearing! Yes, I think principality for Wales is probably wrong; surely, it’s a country?

    I liked the RIO GRANDE anagram, and the JAM SESSION, although that might be a rather outdated picture of the WI.

    Thanks Vulcan and manehi.

34. I have frequently heard Wales referred to as “the Principality”, standalone.

35. If Wales isn’t a principality, why does it have this: “The Millennium Stadium (Welsh: Stadiwm y Mileniwm), known since 2016 as the Principality Stadium (Welsh: Stadiwm Principality) for sponsorship reasons, is the national stadium of Wales. Located in Cardiff, it is the home of the Wales national rugby union team”?

36. Didn’t much like MERCY which works visually but not audibly (yes, I know it doesn’t need to, but the hard/soft C spoilt it for me).

    But otherwise a lot of fun for a Monday-level crossword: favourites RIO GRANDE, JAM SESSION and MOB. Hope I never get the HAN GOUT – sounds nasty.

    Robi@33: Wales is certainly a nation, but it doesn’t fit the Pointless definition of an independent entity which is a member of the UN, so it isn’t a country (yet?) I wasn’t aware that principality was considered offensive: it still gets used a lot.

37. Pleasant Sunday night excursion, with a bit left over for the morning.

    Does REGNANT ever occur other than to distinguish a Queen Regnant from a Queen Consort?

    Thanks, Vulcan and manehi.

38. [Btw, happy Independence Day to US solvers]

39. Valentine @37: Bona fide principalities, like Monaco and Liechtenstein, have a head of state who is a prince regnant (rather than just a royal sprog).

40. MURKY would have fit in at 9a just as well as MERCY, and the intended pun would have made sense. It would be have been a simple thing to coin a different clue to do this. Nobody I know refers to a Merc with a soft ‘c’.

41. Liked that. I completed the south-east first and saw R I D E and assumed I’d stumbled upon some kind of top-and-bottom row Nina. Then filled in the rest with unconnected consonants and realised I was mistaken.

    FARE ASTERN for FAR EASTERN was my favourite clue, very clever. AGARIC was new to me but wordplay and crossers (plus Google) helped me out. I thought the clue for BEHOLDER hardly qualifies as cryptic.

    Now to see if the quiptic is easier or harder this week…

42. The main dictionaries (Collins and ODE) and Wikipaedia call Wales a country. The history of the Principality of Wales (The Principality of Wales (Welsh: Tywysogaeth Cymru) existed between 1216 and 1536) is given in Wiki.

43. GregfromOz @40: MERCY is a visual pun and doesn’t have to be homophonic. HANG OUT is not pronounced the same as HAN GOUT but nobody has objected to that. And your suggestion would upset Scottish solvers because they would pronounce ‘murk’ and ‘Merk’ with different vowels 🙂

44. There was lots of clever stuff to enjoy in this Monday crossword. MERCY was a very good visual pun, as Gervase and others have pointed out. I thought ENGRAVERS was also very funny, and I liked the way the P was taken off (P)REGNANT without mentioning that it was the first letter. And pace grantinfreo’s “pro-feminist eyebrow” @20, I think the Women’s Institute has sufficient sense of humour to agree that jam making is definitely associated with them and would probably find the clue and solution as amusing as I did.

    Thanks to Vulcan and manehi.

45. Felt just about right that the last one in for me was the tricksiest one in FAR EASTERN. Just knew the old discussion about gondoliers and (not) punting their craft would rear its head from the waters once more. Had a nice meal in our local pub The Punter last week, so that proves we punt the punts here in Cambridge. Enjoyable solve throughout, with ever so slightly raised eyebrows over GIDEON and ENGRAVERS…

46. Thanks for the blog, seemed to be a perfect puzzle for Monday, deft clues with a lot of variety and imagination. I do not mind knocked up for pregnant although “up the duff” was my preferred term in the past. I will add WRING OUT to the list of favourites for the misleading sound as a bell.
    Wales is surely a country, it may not be – A sovereign state that is a member of the UN – but neither is England.

47. grantinfreo @ 32

    When paddling in a kayak we can use a sculling stroke in a figure of eight to the side of the kayak to move sideways.

    It does work.

48. grantinfredo@32: indeed, but I am sure the technique is as long-established amongst northern European mariners as it is in the Med/Adriatic/Aegean.

49. Whoops! I mean ‘grantinfreo’, of course! My brain really has gone blergggghhh.

50. John Walker does it to get into the secret harbour in Swallows and Amazons. It’s called “sculling over the stern”.

51. [Re “up the duff”, Roz@46, I hear this expression more often. I’ve never thought about it before but a duff being a pudding this is a bit analogous to that other pregnancy phrase “bun in the oven”. “Knocked up” brings knocking shop to mind.]

52. Dan Baird favours KNOCKED UP great album too

53. **DELETED BY ADMIN**

54. New to me: MOG/moggy, MERC for a Mercedes
    (I thought, is a Mercury and expensive car?)

    Enjoyed FAR EASTERN

55. I wasn’t sure about MOB, but I liked the mental image of Peaky Blinders in bonnets. I spent a moment wondering whether a BYRO was a word for a small stream.

56. **DELETED BY ADMIN**

57. [ Crossbar@51, duff and oven also lead to – in the pudding club . Knocked up is the best term for crosswords, it has several other meanings so it can mislead. ]

58. Too tough for me, but I enjoyed going through the hints, as always.
    Thanks both.

59. Thanks Vulcan and manehi. Nothing much to add to what everyone else has said – I thought this was a lovely puzzle for a Monday morning. Nicely balanced mix of clues, and a great sense of fun, as we expect from Vulcan.

    Simon S @35 – the clue is in the words “for sponsorship reasons” – Principality is a Welsh building society.

60. Failed to parse 14d correctly. I have only eaten Vietnamese food once but somehow remembered Pho (noodle soup?) which is allegedly pronounced Pha which sounds like FAR (perhaps).

61. Is the confusion about rowing and punting simply because we think of rowers as always seated in the boat, whilst punters stand ?

62. I thought JAM SESSION was music from the West Indies!

63. If Wales isn’t a Principality why the Prince of Wales?

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