Guardian 28,896 – Vulcan

75 comments on “Guardian 28,896 – Vulcan”

1. Thanks V and A. Couldn’t parse dredge up, but I like it now that I know. Used to ride so had heard of hackamore, but suspect it may cause some people problems, but it’s well clued.

2. I enjoyed this, with plenty of smiles. Never heard of PORBEAGLE nor HACKAMORE, but everything else was straightforward, and I even remembered the National Union of Teachers.

   Thanks Vulcan & Andrew.

3. Nothing wrong with the puzzle per se, but it seems Dr. Jekyll let Mr. Hyde slip through once or twice.

4. I needed crossers to DREDGE UP the HACKAMORE bit from somewhere in my memory banks, when I checked I vaguely knew what it was.

   I don’t think of a DOUGHNUT as a pastry: although they do get served with viennoiserie the method of construction is different, so although it crossed what passes as my mind when I read through the clues, I needed crossers to be convinced.

   And NEEDY wouldn’t have been my last in if I hadn’t been lazy and only half unscrambled the anagram (in my head rather than putting the light on and finding pen and paper, or even more lazily using an anagram solver) to write in FOREST-DWELLERS not FOREST-DWELLING.

   Thank you to Andrew and Vulcan for a satisfying solve.

5. Thanks Vulcan and Andrew. I found this quite challenging but ultimately satisfying. An extra L has crept into beagle in your 3 down ?

6. According to wiki, Australia’s west and south coasts are in the porbeagle’s suspected, not confirmed, range. It was a dnk to me, so we might see who did. Hackamore recognised post hoc, and did wonder about emulate for rival. O’wise, all clear, ta VnA.

7. Andrew summed it up. Thanks to him and Vulcan. I got held up in the NW not least because I’d never heard of a porbeagle!

8. Best Vulcan I can remember (not saying much tbf) and sees him climb out of my personal relegation zone. Who knows, maybe a champions league spot beckons

   I thought Gandhi was a brilliant extension of the ?OR/AND? clue style

   Cheers V&A

9. Shanne @4 – I went down the very same path on FOREST DWELLERS. Makes 25a impossible, doesn’t it? NHO the shark – needed to search types of sharks in the end. And had to check that a HACKAMORE is a thing. So, much of this was reasonably Mondayish, but finishing it was tough. Liked CHATEAU. Thanks, Vulcan and Andrew.

10. The two words unknown to me were, I suspect, the same ones as a few other people might have struggled with – PORBEAGLE and HACKAMORE. I needed a dictionary to confirm both. Every day’s a school day. I liked GANDHI, HOUSE-SIT and IMPLORE.

    Cheers both.

11. I think I’m with Bodycheetah @8 on this one. Best Vulcan in a while imho. And, whilst I can only claim the knowledge from previous puzzles rather than proper GK, I’ve encountered both PORBEAGLE and HACKAMORE before – though not together.

    CICERO, SUPERINTENDENT, FOREST-DWELLING, HOUSE-SIT, CHATEAU and COTD, GHANDI earned the big ticks today.

    Thanks Vulcan and Andrew

12. ps: just to clarify – the “not saying much” referred to my memory rather than the quality of Vulcan’s previous puzzles!

    Today’s ear-worm can only be Cyndi Lauper and THYME after THYME

13. I enjoyed this a lot. The long anagrams are splendid. I knew PORBEAGLE but not HACKAMORE, though the latter did seem vaguely recognisable post hoc, and both were clearly clued (homoionym notwithstanding 🙂 ).

    Other favourites were the &littish HOUSE SIT and GANDHI – which has probably been used before, but I don’t recall it.

    I don’t think of the shade TAUPE as ‘greyish’, unless this is just taken to mean ‘of low saturation’ – but this colour term has drifted and lightened from the dark original ‘mole-coloured’ to become a rather pretentious synonym for ‘beige’.

    Thanks to S&B

14. Some new words I had to look up like the afore-mentioned 12a HACKAMORE and 3d PORBEAGLE. Thanks Vulcan for the things I learned today. I had trouble seeing why IMP wasn’t plural for “troublemakers” in IMPLORE at 7d, but thanks to Andrew I now get it. Ones I liked already covered by PostMark@11.

15. [TAUPE did bring to mind Taupi – like Araucaria and Bunthorne, one of the Grand Old Setters of happy memory]

16. Are we going to have a homophone discussion about how PORBEAGLE doesn’t sound like Poor Beagle?!!!!
    I’m with Bodycheetah @8 and others in electing my favourite as GANDHI. A great extension to a clue type.

17. NHO 8D – I tried ‘freed’ before thinking of ‘order’. HACKAMORE and PORBEAGLE also new to me, but the wordplay was clear enough.

    Only quibble is that, as Andrew says, the NUT is no longer a teaching union, so really should be indicated as ‘former’ or somesuch.

    Thanks both.

18. G AND HI – COD!
    Thanks V&A

19. I really enjoyed this one with the NW holding out longest. Liked the long clues and RUNAROUND. bodycheetah @12: I’m glad you clarified your comment as I thought you were being a bit unfair to the setter.

    Ta Vulcan & Andrew

20. How is “thy” a personal pronoun (23D)? It’s an adjective; the pronoun would be “thee”. And Vulcan is usually such a meticulous setter…..

21. bodycheetah @12 – no, surely the Eagles’ Desperado!

22. Enjoyably workmanlike Monday morning puzzle, kicking off with two of the neatest surfaces I’ve seen for some time for FLIPPED ONE’S LID and FOREST DWELLING.
    Thanks both.

23. Enjoyed HOUSE SIT, GANDHI and the long anagrams, failed to parse DREDGE UP, took a while to convince myself that THY was a pronoun. Knowing that there was a shark called a spurdog had me rummaging around for other possible “dog” sharks, before the beagle put me out of my misery.

24. Sagittarius @20, the clue doesn’t mention the word personal. Chambers categorises it as a possessive pronoun.

25. Tough puzzle. Failed 6d SOUSA – never would have got this in a million years!

    Liked GANDHI, IMPLORE.

    New for me HACKAMORE bridle (ugh, what a cruel concept); PORBEAGLE; ORDER OF THE BOOT.

    Thanks, both.

26. Managed to finish this, which hardly ever happens for me.
    Sagittarius @20, “thy” is a possessive pronoun, I believe.
    Martin

27. TimC and Martin: whatever Chambers might misleadingly say, ‘thy’ is not a pronoun – it cannot replace a noun as the subject or object of a verb, unlike ‘thou’, its object ‘thee’ and its genitive ‘thine’.

    It is, as Sagittarius noted, more in the nature of an adjective, but modern grammarians would usually classify it as a determiner – words like ‘a’ ‘the’ ‘this’ ‘that’ which ‘determine’ the status of the noun. Unlike true adjectives, only one can be used at a time: you can say ‘big old black cat’ but not ‘the my cat’, except with a pause – this, my cat – where ‘this’ is being used anaphorically.

28. A doughnut is not a pastry. It’s a bread, made with yeast.

29. “Thine” is a possessive pronoun. “Thy” is a possessive adjective.

30. While I am pleased Gervase@27 shares my doubts about “thy” as a pronoun, I can’t fault a setter for going with Chambers; thanks to TimC and Martin for pointing out the definition, and apologies to Vulcan for doubting him.

31. PORBEAGLE was loi for me, having managed to DREDGE it UP (from The Hunting of The Snark?) and only then noticed the dubious homophone. At least no rhoticism was involved.

    This was better than the average Vulcan I think, despite the preponderance of anagrams.

32. Had to have another think with Dreams Up pencilled in for 13ac, and crossers that just didn’t work with anything for 3d. Before DREDGE UP surfaced and therefore the shark with it. I also imagined that SUPERINTENDENT went -ANT at the end, and so EMULATE had to wait till I’d discovered the error of my ways. A little trickier than usual for a Vulcan Monda puzzle, I thought…

33. …and thanks Andrew for clarifying the parsing of IMPLORE.

34. Lizzy @28. I’d argue that a doughnut isn’t a bread as it’s fried, not baked. I get what you’re saying, though. What about Danish pastries? They’re not pastries either.

35. Thanks Vulcan and Andrew
    Mostly good. I liked the long anagrams and GANDHI, of course.
    A couple of minor quibbles. I’m not happy with B(ritish) being in the anagram for 2d (no problem if the word started with the B, though); and I would use EMULATE to mean equal rather than rival.

36. Chambers has “articles made of paste or dough” as a def for doughnut. And we all know how Bob Marley likes his doughnuts 🙂

37. Lizzy @28: ‘Pastry’ is a very elastic term – generically it covers all of the sweet things that appear in a tradition afternoon tea. And that part of a restaurant’s kitchen given over to the production of desserts is known as the ‘pastry section’ even though many of the things that emerge contain no dough whatsoever.

38. Def for pastry!

39. Re ‘thy’, Wiktionary classifies it as a possessive determiner, but also adds that in Middle English it is an alternative form of ‘thee’ or even ‘they’. So that almost lifts Chambers off the hook, although it doesn’t actually define the word in that way, or indicate quite how archaic the usage is. But I shall try to be verray parfit and gentil with its editors 🙂

40. Mostly Mondayish with a couple of thorny ones including the two new words for many of us and the head scratching about ‘thy’. Lovely exchange on that point @20, 24, 27 and 30. Many thanks Vulcan and Andrew.

41. Thanks for the blog, I thought this was just about perfect for the slot. Great range of clues and generally clear precise word play, enjoyable and educational. I found myself nodding over many entries. I would have loved this when I was learning cryptics.

42. Mondayish with a couple of things exceptions. Nice long anagrams.

    Favourites were IMPLORE and GANDHI.

    Thanks Vulcan and Andrew

43. [I can remember being thrown, teaching French to fashion students and being asked “What’s French for taupe (pronounced tawp)” ]

44. I knew HACKAMORE from the riddle used by Squirrel Nutkin to irritate Old Brown in Beatrix Potter’s story.

    While I appreciate the erudition displayed in the debate about THY, the answer is neverthless a) obvious and b) supported by Chambers! I have more sympathy for those who had never heard of a PORBEAGLE.

    Thanks to Vulcan and Andrew.

45. I echo the praise for GANDHI. I initially thought “statesman” was going to be an inhabitant of one of the United States, as it often is, but it turned out to be an actual statesman. Very good.

    Gervase @27 and 39: the SOED refers to “your” as a possessive pronoun and adjective. Surely “thy” or “your” can replace a noun? If someone is talking to you and says “your coat”, does that not effectively replace “Gervase’s coat”? I can see the argument that “Gervase’s” functions as an adjective, but is it not a possessive noun?

    Many thanks Vulcan and Andrew.

46. I too thought THY was an adjective, since it can’t stand alone like a pronoun, so looked it up in a few online dictionaries. It is given variously as pronoun, adjective and determiner. Collins manages all three. So go figure!

47. I had the whole right-hand side filled in and the left completely empty at one point. But the solutions trickled over.

    I had no hope of parsing SUPERINTENDENT, so thanks, Andrew. Same for SOUSA, whose phone I had forgotten.

    Like Crispy, I used to ride (in my early teens), so HACKAMORE, a word I haven’t heard, much less used, in many decades, came back to me. I just remembered that it was some sort of tack, and found on googling that it can be a cruel device. To my surprise, PORBEAGLE also swam up from the depths — no idea where I ever heard that.

    I really liked FOREST-DWELLING, with “nuts” as the anagrind.

    Thanks, Vulcan and Andrew.

48. [sh @44: a) you’re right, which is why I didn’t object in the first place and only leapt in to defend Sagittarius, and b) I don’t consider Chambers to have scriptural authority in all matters 🙂 ]

49. To muddy the waters of the thy / thine debate, my ancient SOED gives thine as poss. pron. , but thy as poss. adj. , despite saying it’s a reduced form of thine.

    Make of that what you will!

50. [Gervase @48. My exclamation mark @44 was intended to not only refer back to Sagittarius @ 30 (“I can’t fault a setter for going with Chambers”) but also my own fairly frequent use of the phrase “it’s in Chambers” on this site. Clearly, too much work for one piece of punctuation. Perhaps I should have used an emoji instead. 🙂 ]

51. [SimonS @49: ‘Mine’ and ‘thine’ as ‘adjectives’ (old terminology 🙂 ) rather than pronouns is an archaic usage:
    ‘Mine eyes have seen the coming of the glory of the Lord’.

52. [Further grammatical aside: possessives in Italian and Portuguese (though not in French and Spanish) behave more like normal adjectives and in most contexts require another determiner. So ‘my friend’ in Italian is ‘il mio amico’ (literally ‘the my friend’), and other determiners can be used: ‘un mio amico’ (one of my friends) and ‘quel mio amico’ (that friend of mine)]

53. Very nice Monday puzzle. Came in to say that when I came up with doughnut as the answer, I immediately justified it as being a product of the pastry section of the kitchen, and was perfectly happy (having watched far too many cooking shows in the past). I see Gervase (maybe others) got there before me, but honestly it works just fine for me.

54. Thanks, Vulcan, loved the long anagrams. Also thought the clue for IGNOBLE wonderfully neat and concise. In fact, very enjoyable all round.

    And thanks for the blog, Andrew.

    The OED says thy can be a pronoun but the most recent citation is from 1175!

55. [Gervase @52
    For completeness, the article is omitted for relatives – mio fratello rather than il mio fratello, for instance.]

56. Pan gave us PORBEAGLE less than 5 years ago and Paul gave us HACKAMORE less than 2 years ago so both very recent. I would put a link but the internet is too primitive to interface with my diary.

57. Probably non-PC now, but PORBEAGLE is generally regarded as the best shark species for eating.

58. [muffin @55: Quite right, but not in the plural, oddly – ‘my brothers’ is ‘i miei fratelli’. And the other context in which a determiner is not used is when it follows the noun in a vocative: cara mia, amico mio – and O sole mio 🙂 ]

59. Amazed at people not knowing PORBEAGLE. It’s always coming up in crosswords. We had it a week or two ago, didn’t we?

60. I started in the SW and made my way through this lovely puzzle without getting stymied until I got to the NE. Got PORBEAGLE with the leap of faith that a beagle is in fact a hound, but I never got HACKAMORE or the first word in ORDER OF THE BOOT (never heard that expression before!). Does “hack” refer specifically to a journalist? The definition I found is a writer who produces mediocre output for order.

61. Nick @60. HACK: “a literary or journalistic drudge” (Chambers 🙂 )

62. sh @61: which I’m sure references Dr Johnson’s famous definition in his Dictionary – ‘Lexicographer: a harmless drudge’ 🙂

63. Solid Monday puzzle. PORBEAGLE and HACKAMORE were new to me. Don’t know how the former is pronounced, but I would thought the first syllable rhymes with ‘pore’ rather than ‘poor’. (I’m sure someone will tell me that that’s the same thing!) Agree that a doughnut isn’t really a pastry but it was easily gettable. Favourite was GANDHI.

64. Good start to week. Took me two sitting to finish. HACKAMORE was guessed and the river part of DREDGE went over my head. Also missed SOUSA’s phone…
    Thanks Vulcan and Andrew

65. [Gervase @62: Johnson’s definition featured in Crucible’s lexicographically-themed puzzle on October 9th, 2020. Before you joined, I think, but you would have enjoyed it.]

66. Like most others, PORBEAGLE and HACKAMORE needed some help.

    I’ve never heard of a small car being a RUNAROUND. ‘Runabout’ – sure. Can anyone correct me on this?

67. WhiteDevil@66 I had the same thought about RUNAROUND but my Chambers app has runaround 1 A runabout (car)

68. Excellent anagrams today – well fed storing and splendid pile of among the best. Technically a DNF for me, as I DREDGED UP Sousaphone from the depths, but sadly spelt it SOUZA 🙁 .
    I had a bit of a quibble with the wording of 10 which too strongly suggests a meal rather than a stimulant as the definition for my liking.
    Thanks, V&A.

69. Lord Jim @45: amid all the praise for GANDHI, I would like to quibble that Mahatma was more a political activist than a statesman since he never held an office of state. “Stateswoman” would have worked in the clue, however, referring to Indira. Rajiv would be a stretch, I think.

70. Andrew T: interesting point. I agree that “statesman” would normally suggest someone holding a leading official post or title; but Collins says “a political leader whose wisdom, integrity etc win great respect”, which I think would cover Mahatma.

71. Late to the party today. Like others, I’d never heard of HACKAMORE or PORBEAGLE. We’ve decided homophone debates are tedious, but for once this one works in my dialect, so I’m happy to point that out.

    Glad to see SOUSA not clued as SO USA for a change, which he certainly was. (Seemingly half of his compositions are 4th of July standards.)

    IMP LORE is exactly the sort of bad pun that makes me love cryptics so much.

72. The “thy” debate: no one seems to have vommented on the question mark and I took that to mean Vulcan knew “thy” is not a pronoun.

73. DaveEllison @72, I suspect most people try to avoid vommenting 😉

74. Enjoyed this: like most there were two words I didn’t know. I worked out HACKAMORE and checked it in a dictionary (it does sound ghastly), but failed to get PORBEAGLE, probably not helped by the Por/Poor non-homophone in my West of Scotland accent. Although I should know well enough by now, in crossword-land homophones are generally ones that work in RP.

    I wasn’t sure about RUNAROUND rather than Runabout for small car, but that seems to be OK.

    Main failing was putting FOREST-DWELLERS for 1d, which meant I didn’t get 25ac at all.

75. What a lot of anagrams!

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