Guardian Prize No 28,943 by Picaroon

58 comments on “Guardian Prize No 28,943 by Picaroon”

1. Nice one Picaroon. Kept me busy for a while – and it took me far to long to spot Roof Racks – Roo was obvious but franks:gets fuel, was quite a leap. And thank you Duncan for the blog

2. Yes, ‘Man perhaps’ for isle is well worn, as are parrot or copy for echo. Is stone the crows multinational? I tend to think of it, and strewth, as Aussie isms. Have eaten the white of the baobab nut, which positively zings with vitamin C, but never heard it called monkey bread, hey ho ylal. Thanks Pickers and Duncan, and Season’s best to all.

3. Nice puzzle, just hard enough but not too hard.

   [In (facetious) answer to gif@2, Stone the Crows were Scottish. They opened for Led Zeppelin in 1971/2 and managed to be even louder. My ears rang for days afterwards – thanks to second row seats. At least I got my picture in Melody Maker.]

   Thanks P&D

4. This gave our old grey matter a welcome workout, with lots of fun on the way. Was I the only one trying to dredge up the ??? CITY where the OK Corral was? Turns out I was thinking of DODGE CITY, which was wrong anyway – it was Tombstone, Arizona – and the OK had a clever, different meaning – sorting the anagrist straightened me out. SWALLOWTAILS, HALF-TRUTHS, ROOF RACKS (great PDM), KETTLEDRUMMER (our son was kettled in London some years ago, which was the first I had heard of this horrible tactic), VILLA-LOBOS were all excellent. I echo GinF’s seasons greetings to all. Thanks, Picaroon and Duncan.

5. [ … “remembered for the on-stage electrocution of … lead guitarist Les Harvey” !!! Stone the bloody crows indeed, Dr Wh]

6. Is there a new prize puzzle? Or something special for Christmas?
   I can’t find anything.

7. Made good progress on the left hand side but slowed on the other side and had a couple I couldn’t get and couple more I didn’t fully parse.

   Favourites were BUTTOCKS, ROOF RACKS, BREVIARIES, ECHO

   Thanks Picaroon and duncanshiell

8. DM@6
   I see this online:
   Christmas cryptic crossword No 28,949

9. DM @6 – you have to look under Cryptics, not Prize.

10. Ah!
    Got it, thanks.

11. Thanks Picaroon. I continue to be floored by the sheer quantity of top notch crosswords by this setter in multiple papers. At any rate, I enjoyed many clues including SWALLOWTAILS, ROOF RACKS, FISHMONGER, and ETCHINGS. Thanks duncanshiell for the blog.

12. I was pleased to see the shoutout to my hometown at 3d OTTAWA, so I was favourably disposed to this puzzle from the start. Then Picaroon honoured a cellist at 14d VILLA-LOBOS and my day was made. Other favourites were 18a HALF-TRUTHS for the timely topical surface, 6d APPETITE for another beautiful surface, and 16a ADVENTURES for the laugh-producing ‘set out at night.
    Thanks Picaroon for the pure delight, and duncanshiell for the excellent blog.

13. I found this quite enjoyable, and trotted through in a reasonable time. I had no idea about stone the crows, the evident answer, but put it in. I was pleased to see Villa-Lobos in a puzzle, we ought to have more musicians and novelists who are not the first one you would think of.

    I didn’t know about Les Harvey. There was also another famous rock musician who died from touching an ungrounded microphone, whom pub quiz wizards can probably name.

14. Thoroughly enjoyed this, after a slow start, but took off after getting STONE THE CROWS and then slowed down at the end with the very right hand column taking a while. I’m amazed I took so long to get ISLE – I’ve seen Man used this way often enough – but it was my LOI. Thete seemed to be a minor backside theme with BUTTOCKS and bum and tail and rump and the like scattered throughout. The use of fracks was clever and I liked the dentures and lots more. Thanks both.

15. Thanks for the blog and all the others this year. I thought the general word-play was very enjoyable here and only two clues not requiring word-play which really suits my solving style.
    Paddington gets a reference with PERU but even more importantly OTTAWA for Cellomaniac.
    “Set out at night” is very neat and STERNA is a good use of Playtex.
    Nonbeliever for Pagan is a bit harsh, I believe in many things.

16. Cellomaniac @12, I only know Villa Lobos from the guitar (and he’s one of my favourites). I only wish I could play some of his stuff. Pleased to see him in there.
    Other favourites were OKLAHAMA CITY for the clever OK, ESCALOPE for a different use of duck and STONE THE CROWS for “My”.

17. Thanks and Merry Christmas, Picaroon & Duncan. I echo Dr W @3 and Tony S @11 – yet another top-notch puzzle from this setter, and just the right level of difficulty to make me work for it but all yielding nicely in the end.

18. Thanks Picaroon and Duncanshiell
    Very good as always from Picaroon.
    RUTH for pity may have gone out of general use, but its opposite, “ruthless”, is still well known. Odd, that! Nancy Blackett in Swallows and Amazons changed her name from Ruth as her Uncle Jim told her that Amazon pirates were ruthless.

19. A great puzzle, with a lot to admire. I could highlight instances of neat and clever wordplay, but on this occasion I would like to mention the equally neat and clever definitions of words or parts of words: ‘set out at night’ (dentures), ‘OK place to live’ (Oklahome City), ‘sign one’s expecting’ (bump) and ‘my’ (stone the crows).

    I didn’t know PERU as a Pacific region, only as a country in South America. VILLA-LOBOS requires one to know (or find) that Brazilian maestro as well as the abbreviated name ‘Villa’ for Aston Villa. Fortunately I knew both.

    The plural STERNA is, I would guess, a word rarely seen, but coincidentally I encountered it in another crossword the day before I picked up this puzzle. The basic clue construction STERN + A was the same.

    Many thanks to Picaroon and Duncan.

20. Many thanks, Picaroon and duncanshiell. GABON and OTTAWA among many favourites. Inexplicably I couldn’t parse BUTTOCKS (was obsessed with OC being the small county going westward). Couldn’t understand PERU having mentally confused with inland Paraguay. Oh dear. A bear of little brain.

    Many thanks for all the witty repartee on these pages. Sadly, I couldn’t quite grasp the Playtex reference, Roz@15. Always something new to learn as well as old stuff to forget.

21. Failed with BONUS ISSUE as had gone for BONDS which understandably I couldn’t parse. Particularly enjoyed KETTLEDRUMMER & STONE THE CROWS ( which I always thought was ‘stone a crows’ when I used it, even though that doesn’t make sense)

22. Sorry Choldunk , just my childish nature . BACKBONES become BACK BONES , people call it lift and separate but the original source for that is adverts for Playtex bras in the 1970s. The opposite process is Gossard.

23. Oof, I only managed a few. Thanks for the very clear explanations duncanshiel – helpful for the dullards like myself! With hindsight they all seem gettable…

    Many thanks to all the bloggers for your posts over the year, and Merry Christmas to all!

24. Thanks, Roz@22. Splice and decouple might be clearer (but less fun).

25. Tough but very enjoyable. Failed 25ac, 14d, 23d.

    Liked ECHO, APPETITE, ADVENTURES, ESCALOPE, BUTTOCKS, BUMP, FISHMONGER, GABON.

    New: BONUS ISSUE; BREVIARIES; RUTH = pity (18ac).

    Thanks, both.

    Dr. WhatsOn @ 3 – lucky you to have seen Led Zep in 1971/72

26. Picaroon is the master of the cryptic definition in word play.

27. Very Paul-esque, working BUTTOCKS and BUM into the same corner. I found this a little simpler than Picaroon has been in recent weeks, but still enjoyed it very much – in fact, probably more so. . Many thanks to duncanshiell and to Picaroon !

28. [Roz, my old girlfriend says Che ..
    Glossards don’t do the opposite of lift and separate! Just thought I’d say 🙂 ]

29. Hopelessly beaten with this one last week & threw in the towel early doors. Just looked at the answers – STONE THE CROWS, KETTLEDRUMMER & FISHMONGER all excellent

30. [Grant@28 Gossard Wonderbra a 1990s craze , poster campaign, ” Hello boys ” .
    We do NOT need any links for this ]

31. [Michelle@25 twice, actually, but who’s counting?]

32. Always enjoy the tussle with Picaroon and this was no exception. I came up short on BAOBAB, SWALLOWTAILS and VILLA- LOBOS none of which (or whom) I had heard, and ROOF RACKS also defeated me. I’m another Stone a Crows person, but loved all the rest. I appreciate the blog not least for revealing the true delight of ADVENTURES which I had parsed incorrectly.
    Thanks and Merry Christmas to all of the excellent contributors to this essential blog.

33. Choldunk @24 – “county seat” in 1a is a better example of what was originally meant by “lift and separate” in crosswords. That one is scrupulously fair misdirection by Ximenean standards, while some would regard the “backbones” trick as foul play. Personally, I don’t mind it – but that’s because I managed to solve it.

34. Having once been kettled in Istanbul after wandering absentmindedly into the Mayday riots I enjoyed KETTLEDRUMMER immensely. STONE THE CROWS made me chuckle once the penny dropped.

    Merry Christmas all

    [ps: I got bored scanning the Maskarade preamble for the “missing” clue numbers so I posted them in numerical order in the General Discussion to give us all more time to peel spuds]

35. [ TimC@16, yes, Villa-Lobos wrote some great guitar music, but he saved his best for the cello – the Bachianas Brasileiras #1 for cello choir and especially #5 for soprano and 8 cellos, possibly his most famous composition. ]

    [ Roz@15, I’m glad you liked 3d Ottawa – it really is a nice city. Be sure to let me know if you are ever coming this way. ]

36. Vinyl1 @ 13 Are you thinking of Keith Relf of Yardbirds and Renaissance fame? He was electrocuted by an electric guiter.

37. Pleased to have started and completed this a week after it was set. In the past when I’ve completed a prize crossword the day it was set, I would always have forgotten my thought processes a week later when coming to this forum. By starting a week later, everything is fresh, so I know all my parsing was correct (for once).

    Thanks setter and blogger (I particularly liked the multi colours and think that, despite the longer explanations, they are clearer for us non-experts than those where the blogger has aimed for brevity).

    Seasons greetings to all, believers and non-believers alike, which includes setters, bloggers and contributors, whose words regularly accompany my nightcap.

38. Roz@30, actually the Wonderbra was also made by Playtex. The Gossard Ultrabra was its rival.

    https://www.marketingweek.com/inside-story-wonderbra-hello-boys/

39. Merry Christmas Tony , I do not care what the internet says , when I was a student I always bought Gossard Wonderbras and everybody called them that .

40. Late to this, but really enjoyed it and found it easier than Picaroon can be.

    [I suspect I’m a similar vintage to Roz and the first time I saw her using Playtex to reference a clue I just laughed, ditto Gossard. Although I don’t like the Wonderbra shape, and tend to refer to the presentation as jelly on a plate (those bras tended to be designed for a standard B cup or below, and didn’t come in bigger cup sizes back in the day).]

41. Merry Christmas to all.

42. For those who haven’t had their fill of Picaroon and missed this, as I did, here’s something for dessert created by James Brydon (Picaroon):

    https://www.theguardian.com/crosswords/2022/dec/18/print-out-and-complete-the-observer-giant-christmas-crossword

43. Roz@39, you can’t trust what the internet says, can you? Still, as a scientist, I really think you should review the evidence before coming to a conclusion. After the holidays, maybe you can get a technician to click the link for you? 🙂

    And a belated happy new Solar Year to you and all at 15².

44. paddymelon@42, many thanks for the link. Who’s this “James Brydon” who thinks he can set crosswords, I wonder, eh? 🙂

45. Thanks for the crossword, Picaroon, which I found difficult in parts but also full of good breakthrough moments. I loved 10d STONE THE CROWS in particular – it was a favourite expression of my dear old Dad, so was particularly nostalgic for a puzzle I didn’t get to solve until this Christmas weekend. Your throrough explanations in the blog were very much appreciated, duncanshiell, as were the greetings from you and many of the participants who commented. I hope everyone is enjoying a happy festive season.

46. [ Tony@43 I have first-hand evidence of my own eyes . Around 1991 GWB became a bit of a thing , even articles in the Guardian and Observer , sales went through the roof , queues at shops etc. Towards the mid 90s Gossard lost the licence for the design , whoever took it over ( maybe a firm owning Playtex) changed nothing. The marketing people were probably smart , kept quiet, even the same boxes with the same yellow logo, but the moment had passed.
    As for the IT office, I have finally taught them to look at my shoes when they speak to me not their own shoes. If I show them this it will ruin months of training ]

47. [Roz, what’s “first-hand evidence” to you is anecdotal hearsay of thirty-year-old memories to me. I have to balance it against hearsay from those who created the “Hello Boys” marketing campaign for the Playtex Wonderbra:

    It’s 1994, and Wonderbra is on the verge of canning a campaign that would go on to become one of the most iconic ads of all time.

    The battle for the Great British cleavage is raging and there are two main protagonists: the Playtex-owned Wonderbra and its arch rival the Gossard Ultrabra. Gossard is considered the much sexier brand and Wonderbra is in danger of being seen as ‘old hat’.

    Then Eva Herzigová walks into the room and Wonderbra is about to become very famous.

    “[‘Hello Boys’] was the catalyst to everything,” says Playtex’s then sales director, Ken Campbell
    Marketing Week]

48. [ Tony this sounds like Playtex marketing , by 1994 it was all over bar the adverts. See if you can find the history of the Wonderbra on your all-knowing internet . 1991/92 were the peak years for GWB , go to any student party and half the girlies are dancing in hot pants and GWB . ]

49. [Roz, yes, it is Playtex marketing — in the form of the “Hello Boys” campaign for the Wonderbra, which reversed the fortunes of the previously dominant Gossard bras, which must be what you’re thinking of. You can get your own history of the Wonderbra; I don’t care about it; I was just pointing out that the ‘Hello Boys’ campaign for the Wonderbra you mentioned as Gossard’s was in fact Playtex’s. (@30: “Gossard Wonderbra a 1990s craze , poster campaign, ‘ Hello boys ‘ ”.) Anyone with a deep interest in the subject can see a copy of the photo “Abby French Model launches Gossard Ultra Bra new satin collection” from 1995 here. It seems to create a similar effect.

    In 1991/2 I was operating a street private hire car service out of the West End, transporting many glamorous ladies out of nightclubs but never once thought to ask any of them who manufactured their bras. 🙂 ]

50. [Ok, Roz, I must correct something now, as I thought ‘Wonderbra’ was a trade name, but it seems to be generic for that type of contraption. Gossard did make a Wonderbra too, but “Hello Boys” was Playtex’s campaign In fact, Gossard, in 1995, did a cheeky “Say Goodbye to your feet” poster, with very similar visuals. Bra historians can inspect a copy of that here. (Hurry! Only one left.)]

51. [Roz, ok, update: looking into it (i.e. making a dilatory perusal of Wikipedia), Wonderbra was a company owned by parent lingerie company Sara Lee, which licensed the Wonderbra to Gossard from the sixties till 1994. As you point out, it took off big time in the UK in 1991 (not sure why, suddenly). In 1994, they didn’t renew the license and started to market the Wonderbra directly. That was the “Hello Boys” campaign. Playtex was owned by Sara Lee, too, so may have used the same advertising agency? Hardly surprising you wouldn’t have been aware of these behind-the-scenes capitalist machinations but nevertheless, “Hello Boys” wasn’t Gossard’s campaign.

    Btw, Widdersbel is absolutely right in what he says about ‘lift-and-separate’ applied to crossword clues. It was coined by Mark Goodliffe using it as the title of a blog post about The Times cryptic crossword No. 23,496, in which he writes:

    Very helpful to separate two-word phrases in this one: Spice Girl, took issue, long range, hill stations, turned round, mail bomb, low degree – none of them ‘mean what they say’ here.. Of course, since then, many have come to apply the term to splice-n-slice clues like that for ASTERN here.

52. [ Tony , good research , this is my last word on bras. Say goodbye to your feet was much earlier than 95, Gossard had clever adverts in magazines from about 1990 , part of the reason for the craze maybe. I asked my friend ( she gives me the FT crossword) who is an economics professor, she said the Hello Boys poster campaign was a disaster , designed by men , for men and men do not buy many bras. It is the main thing remembered though. As you say nobody particularly cares about licensing, For people who remember the fashion craze it is always GWB and never Playtex ( cross your heart bra, lift and separate , staid and boring ) ]

53. Tony @ 51 , thanks for the info on lift-and -separate , not a term I ever use. If anybody is fooled by two word phrases in clues then they deserve all they get. I do not “read” the clue , simply pause and treat each word with suspicion.
    I use Playtex for a word that needs to be split , backbones , indeed etc
    and Gossard when two words need to be pushed together, much rarer.

54. [Roz, yes, my mistake: “Say goodbye to your feet” was from 1992, not 1995 as I said. Must have been still carrying in my head the date of the first poster I mentioned.

    Looking back on these exchanges, I must admit that although, due to the licensing shenanigans, you were technically wrong, to all intents and purposes you were right: there was a Gossard Wonderbra and the Hello Boys ad was, as far as I can tell, for the very same product, but no longer sold under the Gossard brand name.]

    I’ve commented before about your approach to solving, which makes it seem more like a task that needs completing than a pleasure indulged in, but that’s your choice, of course.

55. I take pleasure from giving the setter a thorough beating especially if it is a hard puzzle.
    [ To anyone who remembers that time period it was always a GWB , most people will just assume the Hello Boys poster was still GWB. To all intents and purpose it was and the new licence owner would not even put their own name to it. It was never called PWB . People remember the poster but by then the young, who drive all fashion, had moved on. ]

56. [Roz, it wasn’t relicensed, as far as I can tell, but became it’s own Wonderbra brand, owned by Sara Lee, as was Playtex, separately (npi 🙂 ). The Marketing Week journo may have been wrong in referring to “the Playtex-owned Wonderbra”. Anyway, afaict, there was, as you say, no ‘Playtex Wonderbra’.]

57. @duncanshiell: Thank you for the work you’ve put into this blog post. The explanations are nicely written, and the format is beautiful and makes things very clear.

58. [Trust that’s not you posting under a pseudonym, Roz. Splice and decouple!]

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