A gentle start to the week from Matilda.
This was pretty straightforward as one has come to expect from Monday in the Guardian.
Having checked the comments on the Guardian’s website, other solvers seem to agree with me that this wasn’t too challenging.
Interestingly, some solvers on the site took issue with INCEST, but it’s a word in the English language, and so fair game as far as I’m concerned. It brings to mind the (in my opinion) ridiculous “breakfast test” that American editors apply to their puzzles, where words with negative connotations, such as HITLER, CANCER and DEATH are frowned upon, or even disallowed. The original New York Times Crossword editor, Margaret Farrar once wrote that crosswords should avoid “death, disease, war and taxes.” INCEST would actually be OK using those criteria unless it’s considered a disease?
Interested in other solvers’ thoughts?
Thanks Matilda.
| ACROSS | ||
| 1 | STONED |
Some olives are wasted (6)
|
| Double definition | ||
| 4 | CHUCKLED |
Had a laugh when jilted around the third of July (8)
|
| CHUCKED (“jilted”) around [the third of] (ju)L(y) | ||
| 9 | MATURE |
‘Grow up pal’, she said, ‘you are in’ (6)
|
| Homophone [she said] of YOU ARE in MATE (“pal”) | ||
| 10 | TROPICAL |
Hot Romeo spotted in local (8)
|
| R (Romeo, in the NATO phonetic alphabet) in TOPICAL (“local”) | ||
| 11, 21 | OUT OF THE FRYING PAN INTO THE FIRE |
From bad to worse in terms of eating and heating? (3,2,3,6,3,4,3,4)
|
| Cryptic definition | ||
| 13 | IN THE CLEAR |
Innocent king follows ethnic diversity (2,3,5)
|
| (King) LEAR follows *(ethnic) [anag:diversity] | ||
| 14 | BRAT |
Young Simpson nudging along a spoilt child (4)
|
| BART (“young Simpson” from the animated TV show, The Simpsons) with A nudging along becomes BRAT | ||
| 16 | CUTE |
Appealing and periodically acquitted (4)
|
| [periodically] (a)C(q)U(i)T(t)E(d) | ||
| 18 | OSCILLATED |
Was uncertain about old elastic pants (10)
|
| *(old elastic) [anag:pants] | ||
| 21 |
See 11
|
|
| 23 | BULLETIN |
Brief account round home (8)
|
| BULLET (“round” of ammunition) + IN (“home”) | ||
| 24 | LAWFUL |
Legitimate appalling successor to Elizabeth the second (6)
|
| AWFUL successor to (e)L(izabeth) [the second] | ||
| 25 | EASY TASK |
Simple job to enquire after Yeats edition (4,4)
|
| ASK (“enquire”) after *(yeats) [anag:edition] | ||
| 26 | KENYAN |
African-American mostly pursuing knowledge (6)
|
| YAN(k) (“American”, mostly) pursuing KEN (“knowledge”) | ||
| DOWN | ||
| 1 | SUMO |
Total love for wrestling (4)
|
| SUM (“total”) + O (“love”, in tennis) | ||
| 2 | ON TRUST |
Turns to organisation without seeing the evidence (2,5)
|
| *(turns to) [anag:organisation] | ||
| 3 | EARLOBES |
Aristocrat with gongs and rings here (8)
|
| EARL (“aristocrat”) with OBEs (“gongs”) | ||
| 5 | HORSERADISH |
Animal, vegetable, plant (11)
|
| HORSE (“animal”) + RADISH (“plant”) | ||
| 6 | CAPERS |
Larks in bushes (6)
|
| Double definition | ||
| 7 | LUCKIER |
Happier when Starmer after change of heart supports leaders of leftist unitary councils (7)
|
| KEIR (Starmer) after change of heart becomes K(IE)R, supporting [leaders of] L(eftist) U(nitary) C(ouncils) | ||
| 8 | DELIGHTED |
Ray indeed is happy (9)
|
| LIGHT (“ray”) in DEED | ||
| 12 | TALL STORIES |
Conservatives delay demoting leader to begin with — they’re unbelievable! (4,7)
|
| (TALL)S “delay” (STALL) demoting leader) to begin with + TORIES (“Conservatives”) | ||
| 13 | INCAPABLE |
Powerless South American island quietly coming up (9)
|
| INCA (“South American”) + <=(ELBA (“sailed”) + P (piano in music notation, so “quietly”)) [coming up] | ||
| 15 | OLD FLAME |
Two thirds of models fall hopelessly for past lover (3,5)
|
| *(mode fall) [anag:hopelessly] where MODE is [two thirds of] MODE(ls) | ||
| 17 | TANGLES |
One leaves mangled genitals in knots (7)
|
| I (one) leaves (*genitals) [anag:mangled] | ||
| 19 | THRIFTY |
Tight old solver’s admitting disagreement (7)
|
| THY (“old” version of your, thus “solver’s”) admitting RIFT (“disagreement”) | ||
| 20 | INCEST |
Convince strangers to welcome brotherly love? (6)
|
| Hidden in [to welcome] “convINCE STrangers” | ||
| 22 | CLAN |
Family of Cyril Allen gutted (4)
|
| C(yri)L A(lle)N [gutted] |
No problem with the word INCEST, though not so the clue – I didn’t recognise it was a hidden answer, and it was my LOI and a reveal.
The long clue I found fairly obvious, so this gave a boost to what I found as an already easy crossword; don’t mind this at all.
Thanks loonapick and Miranda.
Agree, loonapick, no objection at all to the word per se; maybe it’s just because brotherly love is a lovely thing that the clue feels a bit erk.
Nice breezy Monday puzzle anyway, ta Matilda.
Don’t have a problem with the word incest. It’s simply an answer to a crossword clue, not a suggestion that we go out and commit it. Thanks Loonapick and Matilda
Using words like incest, rape etc. in a crossword puzzle doesn’t in anyway mean that the setter has expressed any opinions on these subjects/ideas.
If you prohibit many English words, these setters may bring in Swahili, Russian & Korean words (just some random languages, which I haven’t learnt. Not being judgmental about them.) making it difficult for us. ?
I do have an issue with INCEST. The def isn’t accurate. It’s not usually ‘brotherly love’. And I do find the surface sickening, to be honest. Then we’ve got mangled genitals in TANGLES, and several other clues which seem to be in the vein of relationships gone wrong, to say the least. A theme? (Yes, it’s only a crossword, but maybe Matilda is making a point.)
However, I did find LAWFUL funny. S’pose it depends on what gets your goat. Liked HORSERADISH, KENYAN.
Well, lets get rid of Stoned (encourages drug use), jilted (that must be triggering to a lot of people), Elastic pants (no, just no!!), Appalling successor to the dead queen (too soon), Sumo (cultural appropriation), Old Flame (likely to result in suicidal ideation), Genitals (mangled?), Tight (stereotypical), not to mention the poor family of Cyril Allen who must be absolutely gutted. It’s a crossword that uses words you find in a dictionary.
Favourite for a pleasant outing from Matilda was BULLETIN for the nicely hidden ’round’ and the ‘account’ deception.
Love it, Tim C!
Oh my, loonapick, what have you started?!
Of course there’s no problem with INCEST in a crossword. PC gone bonkers for me.
Lovely (albeit gentle) start to the week. Many thanks both.
13d surely ABLE is island up in a down clue?
TimC @6: Loved your examples, but shouldn’t we also exclude BULLETIN on the grounds of encouraging gun use?
Andrew Telford @9 – of course it is; I may have misspelled island and autocorrect has stepped in. Will edit later
A couple of dodgy definitions for me today.
10a why does topical mean local?
7d why does happier mean luckier?
I have no problem with incest being used but I’m not sure brotherly love would be the first definition that springs to mind?
First time I’ve ever completed a cryptic before 10am. Lovely jubbly.
Thanks to both Matilda and loonapick!
I have no problem with “incest” (inverted commas very important here!). A very enjoyable puzzle. I didn’t think a single bullet was a round, so BULLETIN was the only one I didn’t parse. I vaguely recall seeing “pants” as an anagrind before. I groaned then and did again now. Had to look up Keir Starmer. I liked LAWFUL.
Liked your post above, Tim C.
I doubt I can make the point more clearly than Tim C@6. It’s just a word. Thanks to Matilda and loonapick for a straightforward start to the week.
Loonapick, just re-read your preamble. It’s not the word INCEST per se. For me it’s the surface. ”Convince strangers to welcome brotherly love?” It’s horrific, with connotations of paedophile networks, and grooming, also the Catholic (brotherly love) Church. Someone who has experienced that may now be an adult cryptic solver and comes here for fun, and is triggered by that.
I think there needs to be some sensitivity to our 15squarers, and not just joking, intellectual comments that it’s only a crossword.
As I said, Matilda may have set today’s puzzle with several clues that could provoke discussion, but regardless, I think we need to be mindful that it’s not all that funny to some.
Well done TimC @6. It galls me that Hitler raises objections but Stalin doesn’t. Anyway a nice start to the week with lots of pleasing clues.
Ta Matilda & loonapick.
Perhaps the problem with 20d was the problem with “brotherly love” being turned from it’s usually positive sense to something bad? The clue as a whole did strike me as rather poor taste, though no problem with the solution in itself.
I agree with Dave Ellison @1 that 11,21 was a big help. It’s a bit of a shame when the clue is almost solvable just from the enumeration.
Liked EARLOBES, STONED & BULLETIN maybe because they had slighted less obvious definitions than most of the clues here? Overall there wasn’t much here that would have raised an eyebrow in the Quiptic slot
Cheers L&M
Not singling you out loonapick, you just happened to be the blogger, and in that role I’m asking for sensitivity.
But Matilda should have thought twice, and so should the Editor have done.
Another who has no issue with the word appearing in a puzzle but I do appreciate paddymelon’s point about the surface. I confess to finding discomfort in clues or solutions that refer to terrorism and bombs. Purely personal but it leaves a sour taste.
LAWFUL, BULLETIN and EARLOBES my favourites today.
Thanks Matilda and loonapick
Can’t agree that any of this puzzle should have been censored. I almost managed to complete it with no recourse to either the check button or Bradford. In the end I needed to check CAPERS – why are they bushes?
Shirley @12 topical is local in a medical sense, local anaesthetic is an injection on the skin ie topical.
But I rather agree about happier = luckier.
Thanks Matilda and loonapick.
A delight from start to finish – as Matilda’s clues generally are – and a gentle puzzle for a fearfully wet & grey Monday morning, which is considerate of her. (Or is Matilda a he? I know Imogen is, so the moniker is no giveaway)
Loved the surfaces of 13A, 16A & 17D, grinned at STONED, EARLOBES and the well-hidden INCEST, and admired the succinct SUMO.
Thanks to loonapick for the blog, and huzzahs to Matilda for giving me a cheerful start to the week
Re INCEST, perhaps the editor should have forced a change. IN JEST would have been immediate. Turbulently jets in, jokingly / Audibly swallow, showing humour [2,4] .. whatever.
I myself am of the school of thought where I think of it as just a word. I do note that TV soaps have been doing incest stories for over ten years. The Brookside one was brother/sister. These days, they do usually have a trailer section : ” If you have been affected by issues depicted here … we refer you to so-and-so support mechanism ”
I would baulk at the thought of “support suggestions” accompanying a crossword, which I see as just entertainment and an exercise of the brain !
Ta Matilda and loonapick.
Think there is a typo in your parsing of 5 down. Radish should be a vegetable; plant is the definition of the whole thing.
I’m with TimC (6) on incest.
Like SinCam @ 22 I don’t see why capers = bushes
Could someone explain please
I winced more at 17D, which had me wanting to cross my legs, than 20D.
13A and 24A were favorites.
From Chambers
caper /k??p?r/ noun
A thorny S European shrub (Capparis spinosa), with edible flower-buds (also cap?er-bush)
A flower-bud of this shrub, pickled and used in cooking as a flavouring or garnish
ORIGIN: L capparis, from Gr kapparis
c??per-sauce noun
Very, very gentle even for a Monday.
Re the INCEST debate, I am with the majority here that’s it’s a word, it’s a real thing. No problem at all that it’s in the crossword. I quite liked the clue.
Favourite today was EARLOBES
Thanks Matilda and loonapick
I am another fan of EARLOBES. I read the INCEST clue as part of a mini royal theme, so the unfortunate connotations didn’t occur to me. I always feel slightly cheated when one long clue occupies so much of the grid, but I enjoyed this, as I usually do with Matilda.
Nice, gentle crossword. Just wanted to add my vote to those supporting INCEST (if you see what I mean). I’m with TimC et Al.
Thanks Matilda and loonapick
Re the INCEST debate, surely there needs to be some account taken of intent here. Many of us will have experienced tragedy in one form or another in our lives, but we don’t necessarily immediately assume someone is being insensitive simply by using a related word or phrase.
Room for a bit of balance here, perhaps.
I too liked BULLETIN most of all. Excellent light entertainment this morning. Many thanks Matilda and Loonapick. I thought INCEST rather cleverly concealed, in fact.
Enjoyable puzzle.
Liked TANGLES, HORSERADISH, DELIGHTED, OSCILLATED, LAWFUL.
I did not parse BULLET as round.
Thanks, both.
I did a bit of a double take at INCEST = brotherly love but then realised it was fine/fair.
Agree on pleasantly gentle.
Shirley @12 (and further to SinCam @22), “topical” meaning “local” is older than the now-dominant meaning of “of current interest”. See . Ultimately it derives from ancient Greek “topos”, “a place”. The adjective “topikos” meant, at root, “relating to a ‘topos’ (‘place’)” — just as, in Latin, the adjective “localis” (English, “local”) meant “relating to a ‘locus’ (‘place’)”.
Similarly, the original meaning of “happy” is “related to, or having, ‘hap’ (‘luck’ or ‘chance’)”. Hence phrases like “happy accident” and “happy medium”. So if you’re “hapless” you’re unlucky — as hap would have it. It’s no longer the dominant meaning, but I don’t think it’s yet obsolete.
Sir Thomas Beecham: try everything once except incest and folk dancing!
Re ‘happier’ as ‘luckier’: think ‘mishap’ – a misfortune. ‘Hap’ just means ‘fortune, chance. accident’, as in ‘haphazard’. ‘Happy’ has come to be associated with good fortune.
Short and sweet today: Matilda does some nice surfaces. Favourites EARLOBES, LAWFUL and MATURE.
Although I didn’t have a big problem with “incest”, I completely take the point that the clue/solution could upset some people. The main issue could be the word “convince”, with its suggestion of encouragement. I’ve come across many worse crossword clues/answers, but I think avoiding clues that clearly might upset isn’t difficult, and worth the effort.
Shirley@22: TOPICAL … I’ve encountered the word twice recently, on both occasions used by doctors.
1.
A ‘topical reaction’ when I suffered pain in my ear following the use of eardrops.
2.
No problem with ‘topical use of anti-inflammatory cream’ when also taking anti-inflammatory tablets.
Obviously still in use ..
TimC@6 – very well said.
Thanks for the blog, I thought IN THE CLEAR was very neat .
In Chambers the first definition for happy is lucky and the second for topical is local .
Flea@2 I had thought of INGEST – swallow a pun?
Flea @24 My keboard has developed several sticky keys these days.
Thanks Matilda for an excellent crossword that shows a robust sense of humour. My favourites included MATURE, BULLETIN, SUMO (nice surface), HORSERADISH, DELIGHTED, and TANGLES (amusing surface). I had no problems with parsing so I would say this was on the gentle side. Thanks loonapick for the blog and thanks TimC for your comment @6.
The usual weary reminder whenever this sort of discussion takes place that this was a Guardian crossword and us Guardian readers are entitled by the newspaper’s editorial standards to expect that abusive relationships will not be made light of. Snowflakes hold the trumps in this particular game.
I didn’t mind the clue for INCEST. And I’m surprised more eyebrows weren’t raised by the clue for LAWFUL, which seems…disloyal? Funny all the same.
I get to provide an earworm today! The late Meat Loaf , who was always more popular in Britain than his home country. (And on the list of famous people who died of Covid.)
Very straightforward, as the puzzle should be on a Monday. I liked the double definition for WASTED. I had a shudder on getting 20D, although I am not in the censorship camp. It was tasteless and inappropriate for a crossword, even though I might have laughed out loud at the same concept in a late night stand-up routine (where tastelessness is almost de rigueur).
Surprised about INCEST but not offended.
Also surprised at reference to Cyril Allen a long gone athlete.
Thanks both
I have no problem with INCEST in a crossword. If it’s in Chambers then it’s fair game, otherwise where do you stop? Editorial discretion would obviously prevent offensive words, like swearwords.
Funny to read the angst on the Guardian site that the simplicity of the puzzle has caused.
Nice puzzle, looking forward to reading the comments.
Thanks both.
I think of gongs as medals. Do you actually get one for an OBE?
Van Winkle@46 Snowflakes?
Thanks to Matilda and loonapick.
Valentine – yes you do.
Gentle start to the week and surprisingly controversial, it seems. No objection from me on either ground.
A marvellous puzzle marred by incest. I’m a survivor of childhood sex abuse, and even though I wasn’t offended or triggered by the clue (these are cryptics, after all), I didn’t care for the callous journey from clue to answer. If you’re going to use, say, RAPE as an answer, you’d want to get there delicately.
Van Winkle@46 is right; this is the Guardian. Snowflakes for the win!
I happen to agree with VW @46 and Deon @54 that the combination of the clue wording and the solution (as opposed to the word alone) was in poor taste, and jarred for me. I don’t think the “where do you drawn the line?” argument is particular helpful as it just ends up as reductio ad absurdum, and sidesteps the genuine question of poor taste, which is of course subjective – but setters and editors should have better tuned antennae for this sort of thing, I think.
That aside – a good, straightforward puzzle, easier than the Quiptic, so we’re back to that silly state of affairs this week then…
Thanks Matilda and loonapick
Nothing to add about the puzzle (INCEST didn’t offend me – it’s just a word in a crossword), but I’d like to say that after looking at the comments on the Guardian site, aren’t we lucky that this site is so much more civilised and polite!
Glad I came late to the INSEST debate as for me Rob T @55 summed it up best. Politicians in particular have a knack of generalizing an opponent’s specific argument, thus rendering it petty or overbearing. Maybe that’s reductio ad absurdum (I never studied Latin)?
Fun puzzle otherwise with some great surfaces.
Thanks Matilda and loonapick.
I had to reveal INCEST to see it. I was startled at first and then laughed out loud.
Paddymelon @ 16: I’m afraid I have to call you out. You speak of triggering words and simultaneously speak of “grooming”. That insidious concept is incessantly invoked by backers of hateful, anti-queer legislation in the US to imply that queer folks are paedophiles. Grooming is not a real thing. I should know. I was groomed to be straight and it didn’t have the slightest effect.
I have to say, the mangled genitals and incest did make me double-check that the setter wasn’t Paul. I was equally offended by them as I am by his toilet humour. Which is more of an “eeuw” or an “ugh” than high dudgeon.
Tim C’s comment definitely COTD (comment not clue)
Oh – enjoyed the puzzle too.
BlueDot@58.
I understand what you are saying, although I wasn’t aware of the situation you describe in the US. I would never equate queer with paedophilia. Sorry, if my comment has brought those thoughts to mind. I think I’ll leave it there, rather than trying to explain what I meant.
Deon @54: Thank you for your perspective, and welcome to the site (if you haven’t posted before?) I hope you’ll continue to comment here.
BlueDot @58: Just because a term is misused (perhaps more so in the US than here) doesn’t mean the phenomenon does not exist.
I don’t think anyone has mentioned TALL STORIES, which is a lovely clue. Thanks to Matilda and loonapick.
I find it interesting that reference to incest in a crossword elicits such a strong reaction, and yet no one bats an eye when a clue is about murder. While it is true that the victim of a murder is no longer able to be triggered by such a reference, the same could not be said of the victim‘s loved ones. Should there be a prescribed gradation of evils, with a threshold beyond which references should be proscribed in crossword puzzles?
Matilda is one of my favourite setters, and I hope that she is not offended by these assertions of offensive clueing.
Cellomaniac@63 – the issue that people had was not with the inclusion of the word in the grid, but the misdirection that we were looking for a lovely thing. Nobody claimed to be offended by it – just regretful that the indelicacy had not been avoided. If setters are going to include “difficult” words, then I think there is a burden on them to be careful in writing the clue.
Van Winkle @64. That’s a more considered contribution than your attack on “Guardian snowflakes” @46. I have been upset by “triggering” clues in the past, but I recognise that it is unreasonable to expect setter and editor to be able to anticipate any combination of words that solvers could find distressing. In defence of Matilda I would say that there is a question mark after the definition – ‘brotherly love?’. Misleading or clever – take your pick. But it’s not deliberately distressing.
My gripe with this clue was the use of ‘welcoming’ as a containment indicator – not because it’s illegitimate but because I didn’t see it. 🙂
Matilda is my favourite setter – (it’s a wavelength thing as someone commented before about Anto). This was relatively easy for me but got really stuck on STONED and BULLETIN. Monday Cryptics are usually the only ones I have a hope of completing after I have done the Quiptuc
sheffield hatter @65 – apologies for the confusion – I am a Guardian snowflake and have previously been characterised as such on this site.
Matilda is my favourite setter – (it’s a wavelength thing as someone commented before about Anto). This was relatively easy for me but got really stuck on STONED and BULLETIN. Agree that the ‘incest’ clue was a bit off in its language (my immediate thought when I got the solution) – fox-hunting as a solution is fine, but I wouldn’t want it to be clued with words such as enjoy, magnificent, game, etc. At least not in the Guardian!