Everyman 3,978

62 comments on “Everyman 3,978”

1. Pseud is a great word, hardly used now. To me evokes would-be beatnik types and cool jazz, like Thelonius Monk (not that I don’t like him. I do, quite …). I thought definitely lashes for ashes, and ditto flashing re the little pasta elbows, a term never heard. All good fun, ta both.

2. Pseud is short for pseudo-intellectual. I fail to see any connection with the late great Thelonious Sphere Monk, who was one of the key figures in the early development of bebop.

3. If read 17 as an anagram of ( What might be represented as) the primary letters of (Anticipating bits) of my advice do good, so a CAD and a rather good one at that.
   All good fun. Thanks Everyman & flashing.

4. Sorry John E, it was just a vague mood atmospheric association thing, didn’t at all mean that he himself was one …

5. Thanks flashling for your clear blog and grid, as always.
   I like Paul, Tutukaka’s parsing of DOGMA @3. That explains ”represented”.
   Favs RUDDERLESS, DITHERS, SANSKRIT, POT BELLY for the surface and chuckles. TESLA was clever. I knew I didn’t need it, but it prompted me to look up Mariotte’s Law. Had heard of Boyle, but not Mariotte. Tickled by the clue for SANS SERIF, lovely description.

6. DOGMA:
   I read it a bit (only a bit) differently- DO G(good) anticipating bits of M(y) A(dvice). DO G coming before (anticipating) M A.
   I took it as a CAD just as Paul@3 did.

7. DOGMA-contd…
   ‘bits of’ is required to indicate the first letters of My and Advice. In my view, the O from ‘Of’ can’t be taken as one of the intended bits.

8. The usual entertaining Sunday fare. DON’T BE A STRANGER was a standout, as were PSEUDONYM and HERMIONE (we have read and seen all the Potter genre). Like paddymelon @5, I found the ‘primarily’ clue very clever – but then, it often is. I’m another fan of Thelonius (Dad played him a lot), but can see where ginf is coming from with the pseud/beatnik association. Thanks, Everyman and flashling.

9. KVa@6. Having a bet each way with DOGMA. Your parsing is how I had it last week,
   Etymology is interesting, C17: via Latin from Greek: opinion, belief, from dokein to seem good.

10. I had to look up ELBOW MACARONI to see if there was such a thing and realised that I had cooked with the stuff, but never differentiated it ( Is ELBOW MACARONI subject to calculus?) from normal macaroni. It didn’t help that I had the I&O in HERMIONE the wrong way round to start with! I really enjoy the EVERYMAN puzzles. They are good fun and light relief.

11. I parsed 17a with the ‘O’ coming from ‘of’ although my first thought was the parsing per the blog.
    ??From Marconi last week to macaroni this week.
    And a sequence of scientist/inventors over the last three weeks:- Berners-Lee -> Marconi -> Tesla.

    Thanks to flashing and E.

12. I had difficulty with this one. ATE AWAY is just strange. When would you ever put those two words together, and what has the fish got to do with it?
    I didn’t know about dog violets or Violet Beauregarde, so that clue was beyond me. Dither also eluded me, as I’ve always thought of it as meaning indecisive, not related to quaking fits.
    Hope the next one is not quite so difficult. Or that I am more on the ball, or something!

13. Thanks for the blog, another very good set of clues. DOG VIOLET my favourite , it is actually scentless hence the name DOG as opposed to sweet violet , some people call it snake violet.
    The follow-on clue is TESLA after MARCONI, and loosely MORSE. The early work of Marconi concerned transmitting Morse code without wires, “the wireless” hoping to replace the telegraph. Using radio waves for voice came later.

14. I acknowledge priority for Jay@11.
    PDM@5 the French still call it Marriote’s Law although Boyle published first. It is still the case today that first to publish has acknowledged priority.

15. Vireya@12, a fish supper is just a typical example of a takeaway .
    In the film Alien , the acid from the face-hugger ATE AWAY / consumed several decks of the Nostromo.

16. The fish supper had me confused too. Do you only have fish ‘n chips before turning in over there?

17. Lovely puzzle.

    Liked PSEUDONYM, SATURATES, RUDDERLESS, ABSCOND, POT BELLY

    Never heard of ELBOW MACARONI

    Thanks Everyman and flashling

18. Paul@16 this is a bit of a minefield . In the UK supper can refer to the main evening meal typically around 6pm, posh people like MrEssexboy call it dinner, normal people call it tea. There is also a kitchen supper or country supper which is very posh.
    A fish supper is typically just fish and chips for a main meal , early evening.

    Our MiddleSprog has lived in the South for a while. She will occasionally say lunch ( meaning dinner ) or dinner ( meaning tea ) and will get ribbed mercilessly.

19. I guess if you are in a really terrible dither you might quake but, like Vireya @12, I didn’t know it could actually mean that.

20. Thanks for the enlightenment Roz. [You’ll be pleased to hear I had two swims today before supper.]

21. The usual from Everyman – pretty straightforward but pleasant. SANS SERIF was nice, but I wish Everyman would vary the “take first letters” indication – every one of his crosswords has a clue beginning “Primarily…” so no thought whatever is needed to solve it. Liked RUDDERLESS.
    I seem to remember my mother making macaroni cheese in the late 1950’s with long macaroni similar to what is now sold as bucatini (she probably boiled it for at least 20 minutes), and guessed the standard short bent tubes of today are “ELBOW MACARONI” but hadn’t actually come across the term.
    “Fish supper” seems to be mainly a Scottish/northern term for what in the south of England is just “fish and chips”.
    Thanks E and f.

22. Roz @18, no, no, no! 6pm is supper or maybe high tea. You have to wait until 8pm to dine on your dinner. Dinner party dates usually start at 7:30pm. But meals served in the middle of the day in educational establishments are school dinners. (This needs tongue-in-cheek smileys.)

    That was a slower solve than Everyman can be, so I agree with flashling about slow starts. Thank you to flashling and Everyman.

23. [ Well done Paul@20 , i had two swims on Wednesday with snow on the beach, my favourite ]

24. Can’t believe it! I was just watching something from the UK on TV, and someone described a meal of fish and chips as a fish supper. Amazing, as I don’t remember ever hearing that before.

25. Liked DONT BE A STRANGER, DITHERS (loi).

    I could not parse 14ac (never heard of PSEUD as a word before), 3d.

    Thanks, both.

    I agree with Vireya@12 regarding fish supper = takeaway food. I can imagine fish and chips as takeaway, but just fish? Oh, I see Roz@18 has explained that fish is shorthand for fish and chips. Never knew that before.

26. I remember Pseud’s Corner from Private Eye – maybe more the sleeve notes than the jazz itself. I always found it strange when people asked “Are you on school dinners or packed lunch?”, which, I suppose that the terms denote the nature of the meal rather than the timing.

27. When I have fish and chips it’s usually for lunch (sorry Roz), but the clue says ‘maybe’, so all’s well.

    (nicbach @10, maybe I should integrate macaroni into my lunchtime ROUTINE? Elbow macaroni for EXTRA inflection points. Or do I mean stationary points? Anyway, that’s tangential.)

    We had WORDSWORTH a couple of weeks ago, and now DONNE. Time for Jay to start a poets list?

    I agree with those who found this a bit tricky for an Everyman, but hopefully Vireya @12 and others will find today’s (i.e. next week’s blog) more approachable. Thanks E & F.

28. Fish suppers get served with tea and bread and butter (with the fish and chips) and peas, mushy or otherwise, in my experience, when I’ve eaten in. Takeaway is from paper on a bench with an optional pot of mushy peas (not guacamole, as Peter Mandelson suggested in Hartlepool) or pea fritters. There was a trend for battered deep-fried Mars bars a few years ago.

29. Eb@27 I have a “people” list and WORDSWORTH has appeared three times. Agree today’s offering is very much more approachable (if you can find a follow-on then you’re doing better than me…)

30. Sorry to drag this out but British cuisine fascinates me. Is the (Northern?) takeaway supper menu limited to fish or can you alternatively have burger supper or even sausage supper?

31. RUDDERLESS made me laugh out loud. Thanks, Everyman.

    DOG VIOLET held me up a bit – if there’s one thing I associate with violets, it’s a strong scent. But the internet confirms that dog violets are an exception. (Thanks, Roz @13 – didn’t occur to me that would be the reason for it being called a “dog” violet but it makes sense.)

    Thanks for the blog, flashling.

    Petert @26 – Pseud’s Corner is still a regular feature of the Eye. The well of material seems to be bottomless. Because people will be people.

32. When I was a student at St. Andrews, a Saturday night tradition when we had the money was to go to the chippie after an evening in the pub and get a takeaway fish/haggis/black pudding/… supper

33. My father was from NE England, so we had dinner, tea and then supper (a late snack with tea). I’m a southerner, so I have lunch and dinner, but then most of my posh friends now use supper for dinner; confusing, eh?

    I agree with the blog about DOGMA, with the further explanation by KVa @6. I liked the UDDERLESS bull and A TAKE AWAY with a bit taken away.

34. … and thanks to Everyman and flashling.

35. Paul @ 30

    The other Northern late night staple, which was also sold by chippies, was pie, chips & gravy, mushy peas optional.

36. Widdersbel @31, many reasons for plant names are lost in the mists of time . Dog varieties usually inferior but can be better or just different.
    Dog rose for example has a much fainter scent but is very hardy and prolific, I love it. Many people scorn it, too spikey and sprawls too much.

37. Paul@30 , Angus and Simon have given other suggestions. I have seen a battered sausage supper. Shanne@ 28 mentions deep-fried Mars bars, not a myth , mainly Scottish I think , are they still a thing? The Scots can tell us.

    My experience the same as Robi@33 , my parents having a late supper. Cup of tea and pork pie, sausage roll etc , not much.

38. Born and raised in Lancashire, “supper” was basically two biscuits immediately before bedtime. I am still momentarily confused when posher southern folk invite me round for “supper”…!

39. Roz @ 37
    I was in Scotland over New Year and, in Perth, saw a sign in a chippy’s window saying: ‘this week’s fried bar – Bounty (or something)’
    So I think that the fried bars are still a thing.
    (I can’t actually remember what the bar was in the advert, it may not have been Bounty)

40. Thanks Anna @39 , perhaps Bounty is the healthy option containing coconut.

41. Nigella Lawson did deep fried bounty bars

    I don’t remember seeing deep fried mars bars

    I do remember eating deep fried pizzas in Glasgow when i was a teenager – first time I ate pizza

42. I’ve eaten a small slice of a deep-fried Mars Bar, and similarly a Snicker and something else. We were walking in the Lake District and bought and tried the offerings from the chippy between the 6 of us.

43. I’m surprised ELBOW MACARONI isn’t a familiar phrase, I thought that’s just what the stuff was called. Now that I think of it, the word “elbow” doesn’t necessarily appear on the package.

    2d BEAST is a noun and “savage” is an adjective unless it means a person. How are they equivalent?

    I would never have thought of “takeaway” in 3d. I do know the expression, but in the US it’s “takeout.”

    How does EXTRA = “run”?

    Thank you, Roz, for the anthropological meal tour. I’d never heard of either kitchen suppers or country suppers, and Google took me to a very funny Tatler article on the latter. Over here, tea is a beverage period. (Full stop to some of you.) Fish and chips is fish and chips, though, even though we call the chips when they’re fishless fries.

    Another British food occasion nobody has mentioned is “evening meal.” It took me a while to realize that it was a thing, not just something a person happened to say. I don’t know who uses the phrase about what, but I don’t think anybody invites friends over for an evening meal. Restaurants? Boarding houses? (Do boarding houses still exist?)

    What ever are deepfried Mars/Bounty bars like? The mind reels.

    Thanks to Everyman and flashling for the entertainment.

44. Valentine, an extra is a run in cricket awarded for reasons other than a successful hit. It’s roughly analogous to a walk in baseball.

    You can get deep-fried Snickers bars at Midwestern state fairs, too. They deep-fry everything. The weirdest I’ve seen is deep-fried butter.

    If you think of both the beast and the savage as a nasty human being, it works.

45. Valentine@43 boarding houses still exist in seaside resorts , Blackpool, Brighton etc. Some are Bed n Breakfast called Bnb’s others provide an evening meal as well (tea in my parlance) if you turn up at the right time. The Blackpool landladies have a reputation for being very formidable.

46. Cellomaniac if you pop in, your Azed clue today is 32Ac, not your absolute favourite but you will like it, others may like it too .

47. Valentine I think the term “evening meal” is used to avoid the ambiguity if dinner, as in bed, breakfast and evening meal as a hotel offering.

48. Roz, I also liked that one, several musical genres combined!

49. Me @44: to clean up the baseball analogy–cricket extras might be wides (analogous to a baseball walk), no-balls (analogous to a baseball balk), leg byes (weakly analogous to a baseball hit-by-pitch), or byes (*very* weakly analogous to the (badly named) dropped third strike rule). All analogies inexact–baseball is just like cricket except for all the parts which are totally different, and that’s almost all of the parts!

50. [Simon S, I think it was you, some time ago, if not please ignore, but yes it was Jeff Beck’s Truth album with that Rod Stewart track; I just couldn’t recall it at the time, so I guessed ‘eponymous’]

51. Been having a pie discourse with my housemate. Here in west Oz it’s dog’s dog’s eye and dead ‘orse (tomato sauce). In Queensland, there is pie and mushy peas, like in Lancs where her and my rels are. Then there are floaters, whatever they are.Too hard to analyse.

52. Only one dog’s 😉

53. [As for boarding houses, daily bed and board in Kangaroo Alley (eg Brompton Road) was ten bob in ’67: four to a dorm, cooked breakfast, (no lunch) then tea/dinner]

54. [ Roz@46, thanks for the excellent Azed clue. It took me a while to get it – I started trying an alternative parsing (a musician and his instrument) but I couldn’t work in the extra letter. I’d say more but I won’t risk inadvertent spoilers. ]

    Thanks also to Everyman and flashling for the fun. Favourites were the two top left clues, 1a and especially 1d (UDDERLESS brought a guffaw). I needed flashling’s help to parse 3d ATE AWAY. Most of my fish suppers (dinners, teas, whatever) I cook myself or eat in restaurants, so that reference only confused me – and we say takeout, not takeaway in our part of the world.

55. Have been enjoying the blog re TAKEAWAY, filled with lots of little interesting things of varying provenance.

    No-one has mentioned the placement of the comma which held me up a bit. The surface needs to be read as “a fish supper maybe, without a…. “

56. beaulieu@21. I quite like the “primarily” clues, don’t mind the indication, and sometimes they’re more complex. Maybe it’s a toehold for beginners too. I find that Everyman usually does them very well, and tells a story which often has me looking things up, so he gives us that bit extra. “SUCRE” was a recent example.

57. ATE AWAY I got, but I think the parsing isn’t great.

    Obviously Grauniad readers are a refined bunch, nobody has mentioned that a ‘fish supper’ is also slang for … well, let’s just say making your wife happy.

    PSEUDONYM was my CotD, EXTRA the LOI – I’m making a habit of my LOI being something that should be my point of entry!

58. I have just come across this really good piece about Thelonious Monk:

    https://thebaffler.com/salvos/jazz-is-freedom-grimstad

59. Failed on the poet, had to look up the flower. Thought some of the wp a bit strained. We don’t really have fish suppers here but figured it was a take away.

    Soft and rudderless were nice.

60. 10a stumped me as did 21a
    Supper in NZ is something to eat while watching TV.
    Rob

61. Got there in the end.
    Rudderless was very good.

62. John Donne is famous for his poem, No Man is an Island. You will know the ending, …For whom the bell tolls, It tolls for thee.

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