Guardian Cryptic 28,982 by Tramp

by

The puzzle may be found at https://www.theguardian.com/crosswords/cryptic/28982.

A couple of minor quibbles which for me did not spoil an entertaining solve.

ACROSS
1 COCK-UP
Boob has male excited (4-2)
A charade of COCK (‘male’ bird) plus UP (‘excited’).
4 AMBUSH
Attack American president receiving head from Monica (6)
An envelope (‘receiving’) of M (‘head from Monica’) in A (‘American’) plus BUSH (either ‘president’). For a start, two clues with remarkable surfaces.
9 SWEEP SECOND HAND
Wife wearing eye make-up, ultimately used something that goes over face (5,6,4)
An envelope (‘wearing’) of W (‘wife’) in SEE (‘eye’) plus P (‘make-uP ultimately’) Plus SECOND HAND (‘used’); the ‘face’ in the definitions being of a watch or clock.
10 BITTER
Cold beer (6)
Double definition.
11 ABATTOIR
Shambles of a club recalled brawl (8)
A charade of ‘a’ plus BAT (‘club’) plus TOIR, a reversal (‘recalled’) of RIOT (‘brawl’). The original meaning of shambles.
12 MENSWEAR
Heads for Marks and Spencer newer fancy clothing department (8)
An anagram (‘fancy’) of M A S (‘heads for Marks And Spencer’) plus ‘newer’.
14 EXHORT
Old men by hotel getting tip for trouser press (6)
A charade of EX (‘old’) plus H (‘hotel’) plus OR (other ranks, ‘men’) plus T (‘tip for Trouser’).
15 AS IT IS
A model lives in the present state (2,2,2)
A charade of ‘a’ plus SIT (‘model’) plus IS (‘lives’).
18 SNAPSHOT
Still breaks hip (8)
A charade of SNAPS (‘breaks’) plus HOT (‘hip’, popular).
21 DEMISTER
Hot air from this duke, essentially lost title (8)
A charade of DE, which is ‘d[uk]e’ minus the interior letters (‘essentially lost’) plus MISTER (‘title’), for the device to clear a car’s windscreen, for example.
22 COMBED
Did groom turn up by day to accept bride, primarily? (6)
An envelope (‘to accept’) of B (‘Bride primarily’) in COME (‘turn up’) plus (‘by’) D (‘day’).
24 ELECTRIC GUITARS
Train set, large circuit to make features of rock? (8,7)
An anagram (‘train’) of ‘set large circuit’.
25 RESIST
Struggle to take exam again outside school (6)
An envelope (‘outside’) of S (‘school’) in RESIT (‘take exam again’).
26 STOLEN
Swiped right, finally put in single name (6)
An envelope (‘put in’) of T (‘righT finally’) in SOLE (‘single’) plus N (‘name’).
DOWN
1 COWHIDE
Leather whip shortly for breaking rules (7)
An envelope (‘for breaking’ – ‘for’ seems out of place and unnecessary) of ‘whi[p]’ minus its last letter (‘shortly’) in CODE (‘rules’).
2 CLEFT
Crack cocaine handed down (5)
A charade of C (‘cocaine’) plus LEFT (‘handed down’).
3 UPSURGE
Rise in court: make legal claim about case of racketeering (7)
A charade of UP (‘in court’) plus SURGE, an envelope (‘about’) of RG (‘case of RacketeerinG‘) in SUE (‘make legal claim’).
5 MANDATE
Order McDonald’s, along with a drink that’s reduced (7)
A charade of M (‘McDonald’s’, presumeably the golden arches) plus AND (‘along with’) plus ‘a’ plus TE[a] (‘drink’) minus the last letter (‘that’s reduced’).
6 UNHITCHES
Divorces one with troubles (9)
A charade of UN (‘one’ – either dialect ‘un or unannounced French) plus HITCHES (‘troubles’).
7 HUNKIER
More attractive darling, inform­ally meeting snogger with no heart (7)
A charade of HUN (‘darling, informally’ – I would spell it HON, for honey) plus KI[ss]ER (‘snogger’) minus the middle letters (‘with no heart’).
8 ECLAIR
Sweet English girl (6)
A charade of E (‘English’) plus CLAIR (‘girl’). I think dodgy on two counts: the girl’s name is generally Claire, and although an eclair is sweet in the sense of sugared, I would think of it as more of a tea-time item than a sweet as dessert (unlike its close relative, the profiterole).
13 SET PIECES
TV men rehearsed moves for play? (3,6)
A charade of SET (‘TV’) plus PIECES (‘men’, in chess for example).
16 STELLAR
Fab McCartney, perhaps with introduction from Ringo (7)
A charade of STELLA (‘McCartney’, daughter of Paul) plus R (‘introduction from Ringo’).
17 SUTURES
Closes up damaged uterus following section (7)
A charade of S (‘section’) plus UTURES, an anagram (‘damaged’) of ‘uterus’.
18 STRUCK
Came to south on lorry (6)
A charade of S (‘south’) plus TRUCK (‘lorry’).
19 ACCOUNT
Business record of one Conservative aristocrat (7)
A charade of A (‘one’) plus C (‘Conservative’) plus COUNT (‘aristocrat’).
20 OVERRUN
Go on too long? Left work (7)
A charade of OVER (‘left’) plus RUN (‘work’).
23 METAL
Mark and the others lead? (5)
A charade of M (‘mark’) plus ET AL (‘and the rest’), with the question mark for the indication by example.

picture of the completed grid

82 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 28,982 by Tramp”

  1. Coupla cheeky ones to start with … fun. Knew abattoir from The Shambles in York, lucky. Agree, Peter, re 6, 7 and 8: always have to re-recall ‘un for one, so thought ‘unannounced French’; yes would spell hun hon, and shrugged at the e-less Claire. None hanging offences though, in a good puzzle, thanks Tramp and Peter.

  2. Yes, those first two clues! I take your points about 7d and 8d, but as GinF @1 says, not too serious. I thought the ‘for’ in 1d was there to help the surface reading, with ‘whip’ as a verb and yes, UN for ‘one’ in 6d a colloquialism, as in “that’s a good ‘un”.

    I liked working out SWEEP SECOND HAND but my pick was SUTURES which can also be seen as a clue as definition with ‘section’ as an an abbreviation for “Caesarean section”.

    Thanks to Tramp and PeterO

  4. Yes, fun and generally smooth, often amusing surfaces. Particularly liked COCK-UP, AMBUSH, STOLEN and STELLAR.

    For me the niggles on 7- and 8-down are just that, and they don’t interfere much with solving. What did hamper me was “shambles” meaning “abattoir”. In 14a EXHORT I thought “by” suggests the elements preceding it go on the same side of “hotel”, rather than different sides.

    And sometimes you have to abbreviate “Honey” to “Hun”.

    Thanks to Tramp and the Big (Peter)O.

  5. Like Peter O and some commentators I wasn’t convinced by HUN for ‘darling, informally’ in 7d. One slight criticism of the blog though: perhaps it’s a little demure not to mention the double definition aspect of 1a.

  7. Loved ELECTRIC GUITARS. Did anyone try duckier for HUNKIER before realising that would mean 2 x ks?
    Knew SHAMBLES from cryptics, and also my dad who was a butcher who took me with him to abattoirs as a kid, as you did.
    Before anyone mentions ”Pauline” here, as often happens with Tramp, and as has already been said on the Guardian blog, Tramp’s clues are on a different level. Very clever, and I would say, funnier, without the ”ick” factor.

  8. Interesting theories of etymology of COCK-UP include from Wiktionary:
    medieval archery. One of the three feathers on an arrow is a cock’s feather. If the arrow was incorrectly placed on the bow for drawing and release, the arrow would go off course because of the cock’s feather being up and therefore the arrow positioned wrongly on the bow. This was then known as a “cock up”.

    A dictionary definition gives ” a mess, a shambles”. Does this qualify for a mini theme in conjunction with 11A?

  9. Got lots of this without knowing why. Very enjoyable. I could hear middle England choking on their corn flakes with 1 across. Thanks Tramp and PeterO

  11. Thanks Tramp and PeterO
    Easy for a Tramp, but I enjoyed it.

    [COCK UP reminds me that the British Trust for Ornithology has had its Twitter account suspended over reports on of sighting of WOODCOCK.]

  13. I have a friend named Clair, so don’t wince so much at that clue, although it occurs to me that ECLAIR could be clued by moving the e on Claire.

    Those first two clues!

    Tgank you to PeterO and Tramp.

  14. gdu@3 Bring the prisoner up, send the prisoner down (up to hearing, down after conviction as the cells were below the court.) Pretty common in court parlance. S/he was ”up” before the Magistrate/Judge. I’ve always been interested in the term ‘sent down’ from Oxford, say, meaning expelled, or “rusticated”, which is another fascinating word.

  16. This looked impossible at first sight, but slowly unrolled. Tramp is the master of misdirection.
    William @10 – for those who don’t know, Chambers defined ‘eclair’ as ‘a confection long in shape but short in duration’ (or words to that effect; I’m going from memory’.

  19. For those not aware of the reference of William @10 and what George Clements is referring to @16, there is a book about the humorous definitions in Chambers among other things called Chambers Gigglossary

    Some tricky ones to parse in this one. Favourite was SNAPSHOT for a succinct and pleasing surface.

  20. It’s Tramp, so there will be one or two of his nudge-nudge wink-wink clues (which, as paddymelon@7 says, are of a different kind from Paul’s childishly lavatorial ones).

    Anyway… Don’t much like McDonald’s for M, and find the “did verb = verbed” construction (as in COMBED) clumsy, but that’s just me being grumpy. No problem with shambles=abattoir: it isn’t the first meaning that springs to mind, but it’s the original one and still valid. Great clue for ELECTRIC GUITARS.

    There are a number of sweets of the sweetshop rather than dinner-table variety which are ECLAIRS – maybe this is what the clue has in mind?

  21. 11a took me an unaccountably long time despite recalling that the Shambles was originally the area of a town where butchers traded. As George @16 said, some nice misdirections, particularly 24a I thought. I guessed it was an anagram but took a while to realise that train was the indicator.

  22. I always expect a couple of risque clues from Tramp and my FOI, so to speak, COCK-UP, made me LOL. Great fun with SNAPSHOT, MENSWEAR and UPSURGE were my favourites. Shambles as a def for ABATTOIR was new.

    Ta Tramp & PeterO.

  23. 16d STELLA deserves a mention in her own right as a welk known fashion designer, and animal rights and environmental supporter, not just Paul McCartney’s daughter.

  24. 1a went in immediately along with a chortle. I didn’t realise there might be another parsing. Perhaps my favourite clue ever.

  26. I found this a lot harder than some here did. I can remember chocolate eclairs (the sweets) as a treat on long car journeys. As well as the innuendo clues, I enjoyed ELECTRIC GUITARS.

  27. Having started with the downs I had –C- U- when I reached one across. I’m slightly ashamed to admit I briefly considered a much earthier solution for an error.

    As others have said a few niggles here and there but all is forgiven for the huge belly laugh that AMBUSH provided.

    Bravo Tramp and thanks PeterO.

  28. Very entertaining, with some clever constructions and amusing surfaces. At the beginning I didn’t make much headway with the top half (apart from 1ac and 4ac 🙂 ) so I worked up from the bottom – and then couldn’t see why I had trouble with the early clues.

    Good long anagram for ELECTRIC GUITARS and I liked the use of ‘did groom’ for COMBED: it defines a past tense whilst giving a nounal reading for ‘groom’ within a great surface. Favourite was SUTURES for its &littishness (as WordPlodder @2 points out).

    Many thanks to Neil and PeterO

  29. Great crossword, thanks Tramp and Peter O, but I’m afraid I had to reveal DEMISTER – I had all the crossers but the word just did not come to me, and I would never have thought of it. Like others, my fave was SUTURES but I also liked ELECTRIC GUITARS for the wonderfully misleading surface.

  30. Splendid as ever from Tramp. I was held up in completing the NE with ABATTOIR and MANDATE proving very tricky; the second because I always forget that ‘shambles’ meaning and then kick myself, the first as I simply wouldn’t think of M as an abbreviation or other indication of McDonalds. ‘Golden arches’ – yuk. But that’s just a personal reaction to the brand and the product; if it’s become fair game in puzzles, so be it and PeterO clearly recognised the allusion.

    My favourites have already been tagged: COCK UP, AMBUSH, ELECTRIC GUITARS and SUTURES.

    Thanks Tramp and PeterO

  31. Found this tricky and rather fiddly in places. Put a complete spanner in the works in the NW corner by trying to convince myself that the leather beginning with a C at 1 Down had to be Chamois, simply because I’d already inserted quite a few clues without being able to parse them properly. Enjoyable penny drop moments with DEMISTER and SNAPSHOT. I’d not come across SWEEP SECOND HAND before, though I had SECOND HAND in hopefully quite early on. A mixed experience for me this morning, as I trudged my way through…

  32. A whole lot of fun, with some cracking clues.

    My favourites have all been mentioned (SUTURES and ELECTRIC GUITARS being top) except that I don’t think I saw the neat SET PIECES anywhere.

    I agree with paddymelon and gladys re Tramp’s ‘Pauline’ clues – and thanks, paddymelon, for the extra information on 1ac. Thanks, too, to bonangman @ 4 for the laugh.

    And, of course, thanks, as ever to Tramp for the fun and PeterO for the blog.

  33. …though the SHAMBLES in York is a wonderful reminder of the past, and I never just trudge my way though there…

  34. Thanks PeterO as I couldn’t parse 9a despite it being a fairly early entry, Bonangman@4 for the cartoon (I have seen ‘hun’ quite often in memes etc – and like you it took me ages to split the old and men) and Gladys@20 for reminding me of that eclair. I somehow flew through this apart from three connected NE entries and was very relieved when a different county town’s shambles got me onto 11A to finish.
    I think we had a big debate on the M of McDonald’s a while back, can’t recall the consensus but I would vote it a clever use of an almost universally known symbol, similar to the ‘i’ of tourist information signs. But then I liked 22a too!
    Thanks for the fun Tramp.

  36. Didn’t much like HUN and strongly disliked McDonald’s for M. What is the justification for this? I know about the arches, but has anyone ever said M when they meant McDonald’s?

    Otherwise pretty good, indeed I found it easier than usual for Tramp.

  37. [paddymelon @14: In traditional Oxbridge terminology, ‘up’ means ‘In residence at the university’, so someone expelled is ‘sent down’. On British railways the ‘up line’ is in the direction of London (or Edinburgh in Scotland, apart from cross-border lines) and it was usual to speak of going ‘up to London’. However the Western cartographic convention of north at the top means that ‘up’ more often means ‘northwards’. The Chinese cartographic convention is to have south at the top – hence ‘deep north’ rather than Deep South]

  39. Puzzle of two halves with the top half going in quite quickly (although never heard of 9a) then much slower in the bottom half – especially the SW – not helped by not getting that 24a was an anagram.

    Like others not heard of shambles meaning ABATTOIR.

    Thanks Tramp and PeterO

  40. I was stuck on SWEEP and can’t relate it to SECOND HAND but obviously others can. McDonalds for M doesn’t work for me either. Ho hum.
    Thanks both

  41. First two Across clues produced a LOL – is this Tramp or Paul?

    I read ‘in court: make legal claim as sue and wondered where the up came in, doh! I liked SWEEP SECOND HAND for the wife wearing eye make-up, SNAPSHOT for the ‘still’, DEMISTER for the duke losing his title, and great definition for ELECTRIC GUITARS.

    Thanks Tramp and PeterO.

  42. Think “Clair” without the “e” appears in Pokemon. People just love fiddling with names and, anyway, language develops from root ideas. Thus we have . I think “Clair” is fair game.

    Liked SUTURES and ELECTRIC GUITARS very much.

    For me, 1 ac and 4 ac today follow George Formby’s “With my little ukelele in my hand” on TV’s Only Connect on Monday evening
    https://youtu.be/UxDeWddQocg
    so double entendre SNAPSHOTs have featured among the SET PIECES thus far, this week.

    Thank you Tramp and PeterO.

  43. Thanks for the blog, PeterO.

    I wrote this puzzle in January 2022. I’ve used M = McDonald’s before. Some people don’t like it; I understand that. I think it’s ok in a Guardian puzzle. You might disagree. Would you ever say M for McDonald’s? Probably not, but, if you see M on the street you know what it is. I know that will throw up the arguments: “well, can I use G for Google?” etc.

    I’ve used “one” for UN, many times. I understand that if it were in a Times or Telegraph puzzle, for example, I’d have to indicate “local one” or “French one”, or something. But, I think it’s ok in a Guardian puzzle. As with all these things, I make a decision as to whether I think it’s fair or not and some people won’t agree. It’s similar to how much salt do you like in your soup?

    As for ECLAIR: I think that clue is weak. The “girl” bit is particularly weak as there are thousands of girls’ names. I think the definition is fine: I’ve seen eclairs on sweet trolleys and I’ve certainly had Cadbury’s Eclairs.

    Tim @40: not a great night/time for us Blues. I’m not sure what you mean by “couldn’t relate sweep to second hand”.

    Thanks for the comments.

    Neil

  44. Entirely agree about the 1a and 4a surfaces, PeterO – very entertaining (though we had your first thought, Blah @27, for 1a). The NE corner was empty when all the others were full (bar 9a), but they did eventually fall. I didn’t like un=one much, but Hun is fine as an alternative to Hon for me, and we know as many women called Clair as Claire (or even Clare). Can’t see the direction to put ‘H’ between ‘old’ and ‘men’ in EXHORT, though. Thanks, Tramp and PeterO.

  45. Thanks Tramp and PeterO

    ttt @ 40 A SWEEP second hand is one which rotates on the same pin as the minute and hour hands. Other watches have their second hand on a separate smaller dial.

  46. On a first read through I thought I was going to find this very heavy going. By no means a write-in, but I somehow managed to get within four of completion. After a year of this I really must be improving (!) I especially liked ELECTRIC GUITARS , AMBUSH and STELLA. I agree that M for McDonald’s is a bit weak, though got the answer fairly quickly. With thanks to both.

  47. Thanks for the blog , a lot of neat clues , particularly DEMISTER and SNAPSHOT ,

    Tim@40 SWEEP S H , is a second hand that sweeps the whole face, pivot at the centre of the watch , not a separate little circle.

  51. Thanks PeterO for the blog, and Tramp for the puzzle and for dropping in to discuss various points so thoughtfully – much appreciated.

    Personally I had no problem with M = McDonald’s and we’ve certainly had it before. I did wonder about S = school in 25a, which I can’t see in Chambers. I know it occurs in eg LSE, but is it a standard abbreviation on its own?

    Roz @47: I thought a sweep second hand was one that sweeps smoothly (rather than a second at a time).

  52. Liked STELLAR (nice to see a change from Paul); METAL; SNAPSHOT; MANDATE; CLEFT.

    New for me: shambles = abattoir; SWEEP SECOND HAND.

    I could not parse 9ac and 6d UN = one – I know it as one In French, but not in English.

    Thanks, both.

    I am fine with hun as short for honey. I am used to seeing hon as being short for Honourable or Rt Hon. etc

    Also fine with M = McDonald’s (even though I would never eat anything from that chain). I have seen this usage in previous crosswords.

  53. 4a AMBUSH. A brilliant clue. Took me back to 1972, listening to Walk on the Wild Side by Lou Reed on BBC Radio.
    The oral sex reference slipped past the censors, who were apparently unfamiliar with the term “giving head”.

    Also UP in court. There’s this old joke:
    Judge: Have you ever been up before me?
    Accused: I don’t know. What time do you get up?

  55. Glad I wasn’t the only one who had never heard of “sweep second hand”. It looked like a random selection of words to me. Some great clues, many of which made me smile.

  56. Not for the first time, I find myself in complete agreement with Eileen (@32). Tramp definitely one of my top favourites at the moment.

    Thanks for the puzzle, Tramp, and for sharing your thoughts. One of the things that crossed my mind with several of these clues was, “You won’t get away with that in the Times!”

    Thanks also for the blog, PeterO. All your comments are perfectly fair, though I will note that I have a friend called Clair and she gets very upset with people adding an E to her name. She’s Irish, if that is of any significance. Also no problem for me with “sweet” meaning any sweet treat whether part of a meal or otherwise.

    MANDATE was my last in and took me a while to spot but I like it. Anyone who isn’t happy with M for McDonald’s should check out their current TV ad – even though no branding appears until the very end of the ad, it’s obvious within the first few seconds who it is for. Whatever you think of the company or its products, it’s a really clever campaign. Again, I suspect the Times editor wouldn’t allow it, but I was brought up on the Guardian crossword so have become accustomed to expecting this kind of thing.

  58. Great fun – I hesitated at the outrageous 1a thinking “surely not?”, but this is Tramp, after all. I was also amused by 21a with its image of a Duke who keeps spouting hot air instead of just retiring gracefully – I can think of at least two candidates.

  60. Like everyone else I was highly amused by 1A and 4A, and I found ABATTOIR and METAL pleasing too.
    I think I spent longer on 9A than all the rest of the crossword put together. I became more and more convinced that SECOND HAND was right, but had never heard of ‘sweep’ in connection with it. Many thanks to Simon S and Roz for the explanations: I now know that all my non-digital timepieces have them!
    Thank you also PeterO for the blog, and especially to Tramp for the fun and for taking the time to give detailed comments (though your reference to the Blues had me wondering if 9A was a footballing term, maybe some error made by a Chelsea player…)

  61. What a brilliant crossword, so full of wit and succinct clueing. Some wonderful surfaces. Absolutely zero quibbles from me.

    ‘Un = one is standard usage
    As is hun

    And yes Stella M is pretty much a superstar in her own right.

    My fave was the SWEEP SECOND HAND

    Thanks Tramp and PeterO

  62. No one has explicitly (pun intended) noted the Monica Lewinsky reference in the AMBUSH clue, so I will. I spent much of the 2010s teaching at a small college; it was depressing that by the end of that run, I started having some students who had never heard of her. I guess even scandals eventually fade.

  63. Some good stuff here today, though I’m not too happy about M for MacDonald’s (I recognise the arches, but I can’t find them anywhere on my keyboard) or UN for one (if it’s French, say so; if it’s just scruffy English, change the clue). Thanks to our blogger for defining ‘shambles’ – a new one for me – and for parsing SWEEP SECOND HAND, which I looked at for ages without quite seeing it. And thanks to Tramp for a good puzzle, above comments notwithstanding.

  64. In cricket, a googly is often referred to as a “wrong’un”. Commentators from the subcontinent can never bring themselves to say this, and always say “wrong one” instead!

  65. Bonangman @4: I agree that EXHORT should be clued as ‘Old men around hotel …’ rather than ‘Old men by hotel …’. Surprised no-one else seems to have commented on this.

  66. Muffin @64: I am a huge cricket fan and certainly I know the term. Still not happy about it being clued here as ‘one’ though. I see Tramp concedes above that he wouldn’t have done it for The Times or the Daily Telegraph but he thinks it’s OK for The Guardian. I find that a curious comment, to be honest, but so be it.

  67. Thanks Gazzh @57, yes it seems the term can be used in both senses.

    BigNorm @65 (and Bonangman @4), you have to read 14a as: Old = EX, men by hotel = HOR, getting tip for trouser = T.

  69. BigNorm @66 – Are you suggesting the Guardian should follow the editorial standards of the Times? That would be very curious indeed.

  70. Thanks Tramp, that was great. I had many favourites including COCK-UP, SWEEP SECOND HAND, CLEFT, METAL, and AMBUSH. I thought the latter was very clever because President Clinton who received “head” from Monica served between the two Bushes, the president in the wordplay. I failed to see SNAPSHOT and DEMISTER, the latter known as a defroster in the US. Thanks PeterO for the blog.

  73. Personally I don’t like ‘M’ for McDonalds or ‘UN’ for one but heigh ho no setter is going to please everyone. We all have our bete noires. Dredged up ABATTOIR meaning a Shambles from some far flung outpost of my memory. The sprinkling of easier clues made the hard ones more digestible. Fav was ELECTRIC GUITARS. Thanks PeterO and Tramp.

  74. Thanks Simon S @45 I’d not heard of that.

    Tramp I’m always grumpy about single letters borrowed from words (T for tense) but I get your drift.
    ….and we’ve not been relegated in my lifetime – very close twice and I got to last home matches. No panic…it’ll be close though. Keep the faith.

  77. GrannyJ @76 – I took it in the sense of being struck by an idea or thought – “The thought struck me/came to me…”

  78. Widdersbel @69: No. But I can’t see why a written form of a grunt should be acceptable as ‘one’ in one paper but not in another. In my view, if it’s unacceptable in The Times or the Telegraph, surely it’s unacceptable in other quality papers as well. I don’t think editorial standards come into the matter. Not a big enough issue to lose sleep over though.

  79. The Times is a different crossword to the Guardian. I’ve just had one accepted. In the Times, the list of allowable abbreviations is much smaller. You can’t have living people’s names or brands in the clues or grid. You can’t have more than five anagrams. I don’t think you can have answers over several lights. These are just some of the differences. Having different puzzle styles is a good thing, in my view.

  80. Editorial standards have everything to do with it. Different editors, different standards.

    I understand the Times and Telegraph both have a restricted list of what abbreviations are allowed. But they’re not the same list. So an abbreviation that’s acceptable in the Times might not be acceptable in the Telegraph, and vice versa.

    Neither of those papers is the sole arbiter of what is definitively correct in crosswords. And thank God for that.

  81. When I was teaching, the crossword of choice in Jurassic Corner was always the Times. We solved it efficiently enough, and it was generally more rigorous than the Guardian, but they definitely lacked the humour and lightness of touch of the Guardain.

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