Guardian Cryptic 28,987 by Maskarade

95 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 28,987 by Maskarade”

1. In a reversal of yesterday, the bottom half went in reasonably quickly but I slowed down in the top. Solved the nho CHEONGSAM from the fodder and thought MARASCHINO was a nice spot. Couldn’t parse MEDOC or NOT A BIT and took sometime to parse DISCOURSE. I laughed at the audacious Nordic homophone for FORESHORE. I liked BEHIND BARS, DINING ROOM and NEWSFLASH.

   Ta Maskarade & manehi.

2. Thanks Maskarade and manehi
   I had the same trouble as you with 6a (I spent some time trying to work Mime from The Ring in), and 11a as one word. In addition I didn’t know the fountain pen of the cattle disease, so these wer bung and hope.
   I generally avoid Maskarade’s Bank Holiday puzzles – they seem too much like hard work – but I enjoyed this. Favourites were WASTREL and the unexpected harmonicas/maraschino anagram.

3. Completed but didn’t know the Japanese sock (why would I ?), so relied on the definition. Cannot understand why ‘Medoc’ is pompous, and ‘Dining Room’ should be enumerated as two words. Other than those points, o.k.

4. Given the price of MONT BLANC pens, isn’t 1ac also an &lit? Never heard of them before.

   Fairly straightforward, but, like yesterday’s, hard to finish. I had to cheat on CHEONGSAM (never heard of it) and MEDOC – still can’t see a definition. And I won’t mention the SHORE/SURE bit.

   Thanks manehi for the explanations and Maskerade for an interesting crossword – I liked CORPSES and SEWN

5. Are we certain 5A isn’t Medic – which is at least a definition of the pompous dwarf, though I can’t parse it?

6. manehi – I think the ‘married’ in CHEONGSAM is giving us the final M which is not provided by the anagram

7. On 8D you need the M from married to get to CHEONGSAM from the anagram fodder.

   Another who couldn’t see a definition for MEDOC, and didn’t know TABI. My last in was SNORE, with a groan, as the penny dropped.

   Thank you to Maskerade and manehi.

8. There was no definition for MEDOC. That’s because it’s a copy of a clue by the same setter where it was a themed clue without definition. The Crossword editor is still obviously on leave.

   I thought DINING ROOM should be (6,4) not (10) and I’m not convinced about “wearing” as a containment indicator in NOT A BIT.

   “Scours” in “Die” for DISCOURSE took a while to nut out, and it still doesn’t gel.

   It’s probably been done before but I liked HALLE as half of the HALLElujah Chorus, and also enjoyed DOONE for Act 1.

9. 8 Down needs the “m” too?

10. O’seas guests and lots of distraction chez ginf at the moment, making solving harder for a cogitative plodder. Still, plenty of easies to start, like foreshore, sewn and stables. Always thought marachino was the cherry itself, but hey ho. Vaguely recall a discussion about The Halle’s history some time ago. Enjoyed it, thanks m’n’M.

11. Thanks to TimC @ 8 for clearing up the MEDOC question.

12. Thanks for finding that, Tim C @8. Very sloppy – where’s the editor?

13. I’m with PostMark @6. The M for married is needed for CHEONGSAM, a word not unfamiliar to this Asian country where I reside (Orstralia)

14. MaraSchino…

15. We found this a lot of fun, though some of the parsing was tricky – more accurately, beyond us (those mentioned already, plus HALLE). You need the M = married for the fodder for CHEONGSAM, manehi. MARASCHINO came to me in a flash when I temporarily went off to do something else and was not even thinking (consciously) of the crossie – weird how the mind works. Thanks, Maskarade and manehi.

16. Thanks to PostMark and others on the M – have edited the blog.

    Tim C, we ‘crossed’ – I edited the blog with a comment very similar to yours about MEDOC but hadn’t finished posting it

17. I get that AT FIRST is obtained from the initial letters of the previous seven words but I don’t see how it means ‘again’. Can anyone help?

    (Obviously, also baffled by MEDOC)

18. Agree, Tim C, I knew cheongsam, but absy no idea whence or when …

19. I did not understand MEDOC – and, like our blogger, found only the same clue from four months ago in the FT which at least answers the question as to how long it’s reasonable to leave before reuse of a clue. And the DINING ROOM is certainly two words in chez PM. MONT BLANC is intriguing: I assumed the pens were named after the mountain anyway so it felt a bit same sidey. Two learning points today – the Japanese sock and the cattle disease – nice that it wasn’t BSE as is often the case. CHEONGSAM, WASTREL and DOONE my favourites.

    Thanks Maskerade and manehi

20. CORPSES was my favourite for the penny drop moment when I realised what the definition was, having arrived at the solution from wordplay. HALLE was good, too. I can’t really see how “out” gets to mean “outside” in DISCOURSE, nor how DISCOURSE means “reason”

21. An odd mix of very straightforward and rather obscure clues today I thought. MONT BLANC was FOI and the first thing that came to mind, but others such as CRANIUM and MEDOC still feel unsatisfactory. Interesting to have a different challenge though, thanks to both setter and blogger.

22. Tim C @8: ta for putting us out of our misery.

23. Thanks, Maskarade and Manehi. You always need a bit of general knowledge for Maskarade, which I know won’t be everyone’s bag, but I enjoy it and found this fun.

    Sagittarius @5 – the Guardian Puzzles app marks MEDOC as correct. I just bunged it in from the wordplay and assumed it was a gap in my knowledge. Ignorance is bliss sometimes!

    gif @10 – maraschino is the name for both a preserved cherry (but not a particular variety) and a cherry liqueur.

    Pork Scotch @17 – as per the blog, “again” refers back to “initially” which is both the definition and part of the wordplay.

24. Clue for MEDOC, wouldn’t call it a new low, as there have certainly been lower lows, but a whole new variety of low for the ever-inventive Guardian crossword.

25. [grantinfreo @18, I’ve seen a few cheongsams in my time here and very elegant and attractive garments they are. Being of the male gender (if I’m allowed to say that) I don’t possess one but I do have a few shirts with Mandarin collars.]

26. NOT A BIT
    about fashion-wearing Japanese sock
    TON-wearing TABI
    (Not TABI-wearing TON)

27. Hmm. Reusing a clue after a few months is one thing — doing so with a definition-less clue from a themed crossword is unforgivable. I had same comments as others on DINING ROOM numeration. One other thing that misled me was the ‘receiving’ in SKYROCKETS, a word that usually indicates a container, not an adjacency. The ‘a’ in the clue for CRANIUM seems redundant. Seemed anagram-heavy, including four consecutive clues.

    Given the setters often submit puzzles months in advance, is it unreasonable to expect the crossword editor to give each puzzle a robust check before publication?

    I did like FORESHORE and SEWN though.

    Cheers.

28. 6ac Maybe ‘Pompous’ refers to the belief that you can get away with such a clue!

29. [Rob T @27 “is it unreasonable to expect the crossword editor to give each puzzle a robust check before publication?”… you’re fortunate that you don’t have to endure the rubbish crossword editors down under]

30. We’ve been writing the cryptic for the Big issue in the North for 13 years and often come up with a clue that we’ve used before, dredged out of the memory without recognizing it. We have created an index so that we can check clues which sound vaguely familiar, to try and avoid it. I’m sure some get through the net though
    We really enjoyed this crossword and had no memory of solving the contentious clue previously!
    Thanks to Masquerade and manehi

31. Like Rob T @ 27, I say Hmmm . . . . This was the first G puzzle for a long time that I didn’t complete. MEDOC was plain weird; DININGROOM clever (but dubious, as others have pointed out); CHEONGSAM very abstruse; couldn’t parse DISCOURSE. Oh well! Thanks to M & m.

32. The brand of pens and the Japanese socks were both things I’d never heard of (as George Clements @3 says, why would I?) and had to look up on Google. Failed to parse DISCOURSE, and just as baffled by MEDOC as everyone else.

    Apart from DINING ROOM (yes, it’s 6,4) I knew CHEONG SAM as a 2-word term, but being a foreign word it’s probably OK either way.

    Lots to like: HALLE (though I didn’t get it), SEWN, CORPSES, NEWSFLASH, and SNORE made me smile. Don’t get the homophone police started on FORESHORE.

33. [By the way, are any of my fellow victims of surveillance capitalism plagued by intrusive advertising when doing the online version of the puzzle?]

34. Enjoyable and tough in parts.

    Liked CORPSES.

    New for me: TABI = Japanese ankle sock; rocket = reprimand (22ac).

    I could not parse:
    6ac apart from question “me, doc? Did not know (or remember that Doc was a pompous dwarf)
    28ac
    4d

    Thanks, both.

35. Me@26 on NOT A BIT
    Just to clarify further.
    the hyphen after fashion makes the use of ‘wearing’ apt.

36. Found this rather an uneven solve. 1 ac whooshed in at once as yesterday evening I’d been helping my very elderly mother find her MONT BLANC that had disappeared somewhere in her desk. Stared at all the crossers in place for 6ac but had no reason to insert MEDOC from the clueing. Except that I did eventually. Really liked NYMPH, LEICESTER and CHEONGSAM. Last two in were DISCOURSE (early on had a speculative Distemper in there) and CORPSES. Both went in with another shrug of the shoulders (especially for CORPSES). But feeling a bit less unhappy with things having read Manehi’s calm analysis. Good to see you’ve made an appearance in the grid today, FLEA. Fame at last…

37. Entertaining puzzle. Like redrodney @21 I found this a mixture of write-ins and much less tractable clues. MONT BLANC was FOI – easy if you happen to know it.

    NOT A BIT and DISCOURSE remained unparsed, as of course did the inexcusable MEDOC, but I managed to dredge up CHEONGSAM – a splendid &lit.

    I liked the anagram for MARASCHINO and the clue for LEICESTER. AT FIRST is another nice example of a clue where a word (in this case ‘again’) indicates that another word is doubling in wordplay and definition, thus avoiding the unmarked ‘double duty’ which is much frowned upon. But there were many other good clues.

    Thanks to S&B

38. [Petert @33 On my laptop, I use an ad blocker (such as AdBlock Plus), so I no longer have your problem]

39. Petert @33 I subscribe to the Guardian, so feel no shame in depriving them of additional income by blocking their extremely intrusive ads.

40. Like Dave Ellison, cannot get to grips with SURE and SHORE as homophones, but it was rather nice to see my moniker as the solution to 20 ac !

    I don’t think I have ever used, listened to or read the word SKYROCKETS ( I always phrased plain “ROCKETS” when active in firework parties ) except in the lyrics of Afternoon Delight

    https://youtu.be/wu1UXCdyNo0?t=25

    This is my sole life’s experience with the word as used by the Starland Vocal Band and, although Comet doesn’t equate to Star, it’s appropriate to be mentioning Skyrockets and Star in the “week of the green comet”.

    My loves of Maths/reading to my grandchildren led to a “fave” of turning ERGO backwards into OGRE.

    Thank you Maskarade and manehi.

41. Very uneven, like others I found the bottom half pretty straightforward then collapsed with the top. MEDOC was unparsable, as were NYMPH and the Chinese wedding dress (why would I?) but I guess it’s one for the Aussies!
    But liked a lot, especially CORPSES, HALLE, MARASCHINO (what a clever anagram!) and MONT BLANC which I did not know was a pen.
    Thanks Maskarade and Manehi

42. A lovely surprise to have a Maskarade as a daily puzzle. I enjoyed many of the clues mentioned above by manehi and other contributors. The fact that I couldn’t parse some clues, and that this one was actually a DNF because I entered MEDIC with a question mark at 6a, didn’t ultimately detract from what I thought was a good way to spend an hour of my day. Thanks Maskarade and manehi.

43. Well I didn’t have to struggle with 6a, thankfully, as I’d bunged in HOST at 6d over-confidently. Glad I gave up, looking at the comments!
    Otherwise a very enjoyable challenge I felt.

44. Thought 1a belonged to a Quick.
    I may have had a couple pf Medocs in my time that could be described pompous (by a bad wine writer)Margaux and la Mission anything but .
    Points deducted fo enumeration in 11.
    Otherwise OK

45. Another Curate’s Egg! Bottom half straightforward-ish, top half trickier.

    Seems 6a is a glaring error, not convinced by 4d or 11a and nho of 8d (although guessed it from the fodder).

    Liked WASTREL for the surface, NOMINATES and AWAY GAMES

    Thanks Maskarade and manehi

46. I think I’ve only heard SKYROCKET in a metaphorical sense – “the price of oil has skyrocketed” – rather than a description of the firework.

47. Hmmm. Most of this went in straightforwardly, but I thought the GK today (Japanese single toed socks and cow diseases and an English symphony orchestra based in Manchester notably) was a tad obscure.

    Like others I disagree with the definition of Doc as the pompous dwarf.

48. Muffin @12

    The “editor” has been AWOL for many a year!

49. I was somewhat let down by my not knowing MONT BLANC pens – now I know why: Montblanc Heritage Collection 1914 Limited Edition 333 Fountain Pen £15,000.00; but then the Enzo Ferrari Special Edition is a snip at only £745! One wonders why anyone would buy such things (a bit like Rolex watches). I also DNK the tabi and the CHEONGSAM.

    I made somewhat heavy weather of this with a lot of blank spaces on the LHS for a long time. I did like the CHEONGSAM and MARASCHINO anagrams and especially CORPSES.

    Thanks Maskarade and manehi.

50. Flea @40 – great earworm! Was there ever a more wholesome sounding song about bunking off work for a bit of nookie?

51. Thanks manehi, I felt relieved when checking the answers as I had no idea what was going on in wordplay of 14a and 28a, similarly the ‘definition’ of 6a escaped me entirely and for good reason it seems. Thanks also for your note on 14a parsing and the hyphen, KVa, which helped. But I found it a very enjoyable challenge otherwise, eg thought 11a great apart from enumeration and after Saturday’s debacle 14d brought a wry smile. Muffin@46 ditto. Thanks Maskarade.

52. Widdersbel@50 Couldn’t agree more !

53. Flea @40 & Widdersbel @50: I remembrer, as a teenager, listening to that in the car (great tune) with my quite religious parents. They had no idea what was going on (or maybe I’m short-changing them).

54. I’m with jina@42 – a pleasant pastime with NYMPH, FORESHORE and, in particular, MARASCHINO getting extended applause.

    More restrained ovation for HALLE for the (my?) usual reasons – I think I’m just going to have to get over my antipathy for clues that require one to solve on the basis of limited information and manipulate that answer to get the actual answer: they won’t go away and don’t seem to bother the MASSes. In fairness to this one there are few enough orchestras and only one ‘chorus’.

    Thanks both.

55. Thanks both.
    Kate &43: I share your pain.

56. Not for me. Too many obscurities today. I have already forgotten the Chinese wedding dress. I prefer the challenge to be solving wordplay rather than picking letters out of a scrabble bag and checking online.
    6a – a new Guardian low to have to solve a clue without the definition.
    Hoping better for tomorrow.
    Thanks both.

57. The proud Mancunian heritage of the Guardian makes it very appropriate that HALLE is clued simply as “the orchestra”.

58. I was puzzled by MEDOC like everyone else, but took it to be the closest to a namecheck I’ve ever got (the answer, not the clue), and moved on.

    I normally like the obscurities of the Maskarade jumbos since I view them as cryptic+, but today’s, not so much. Did like CORPSES, though.

59. 6ac. If Doc is assumed to be the pompous dwarf, he’s just as likely to ask Medic? as Me Doc?

60. Generally I skip Maskarade’s holiday crosswords but Gozo in the FT is on my “must do” list. I gave this a try and overall I liked it except for the fact I had to rely on guessing because I couldn’t parse NOT A BIT, DISCOURSE, HALLE, and AT FIRST — Japanese sock, cattle illness, and Manchester orchestras are beyond me. Favourites included NYMPH, SEWN, and AWAY GAMES. Thanks to both.

61. Pointing out that the FORESHORE homophone works in some dialects…and for once the dialect in question isn’t RP! New Jersey had, for a few years, alternative license plates with the slogan “Shore to Please”, with a picture of a Jersey Shore lighthouse on them. (Recall that American plates are big enough to allow room for things like this; most states have several designs to choose from.) Anyway, it works if you speak Joizy (among other dialects).

62. I assumed that the pomposity in 6a was something to do with Haut Medoc. I am surprised that Maskarade let this clue through, because in another guise as editor of 1Across he misses nothing.
    The possibly haut MEDOC was one of a number of lights in this crossword that, I’m afraid, left me feeling that life really was too short. Japanese socks and Chinese wedding attire – really??
    Most of it was good fun, though. Thanks to Maskarade and manehi

63. Thanks Maskarade and manehi

    I’m quite surprised at the comments on CHEONGSAM – it’s quite a staple for using an awkward combination of letters, and is definitely one to keep in the etui.

64. Thanks for the blog, some really nice clues but quite a few problems, mainly the editor at fault. Great to see the HALLE in a puzzle again, DINING ROOM was a really good clue , shame about the (10) , WASTREL was very neat and AT FIRST was clever.
    Apart from MEDOC I also think DISCOURSE does not work properly.
    Lorelei wears a CHEINGSOM whilst sharpening her assegai.

65. [ AlanC hogging the number 1 spot yet again, I make that 12-6 to me so far this year. ]

66. [Petert @33: On my laptop I minimise the window to just include the grid and enough space to the right to accommodate a column of clues. Clicking on a clue in the grid “jumps” the clue column to the right place. No space for ads.]
    I’m beginning to despair over the number of sloppy errors creeping in over the recent past, editing-wise.

67. This meaning of FORESHORE was new to me.

    Both components of DISCOURSE were beyond me, especially the equine diarrhea.

    manehi, CARGOES has CARES around, not added to, GO.

    Where’s the definition in MEDOC?

    Kva@35 It would be apt if the punctuation were a hyphen — “fashion-wearing” — but it’s a dash, which doesn’t do the same job.

    Hoofit@56 and NeilH@62 A CHEONGSAM isn’t a wedding dress, it’s just a dress. The M (married) is there to be part of the anagram fodder.

    MrPenney@61 “Joizy” isn’t what they say in New Jersey, it’s what they call it in Brooklyn. The pronunciation from the state itself, or at least the southern part (according to my father, who grew up there) is “Jeyzey.” If you lived there you read the “Jeyzey Jeynal.”

    Thanks to Maskarade and manehi.

68. Valentine @67
    MEDOC explained earlier – see Tim C @8. It doesn’t reflect credit on the crossword editor.

69. Monkeypuzzler@33 The new phenomenon floods the ad as a background to the whole puzzle. It’s very disconcerting.

70. [Peter T @69: I have the ad problem using Mozilla. I switched to Safari where it does not appear]

71. Valentine @67 – thanks. For some reason, I got it into my head that it is worn at weddings, not by the bride, but by guests.

72. Cannot understand the complaints about 6a. Given that Doc apparently is the pompous one “me doc(?)” seems the sort of rhetorical question he might well ask.

73. a few unknowns made this tricky for me. Not helped by confidently putting scrotum in 19a.

74. Except, I suppose, that it should then be (2,3). I’ll see myself out.

75. Alans @72
    But where is the definition for MEDOC? It didn’t have one in the original FT puzzle as that had a theme of alcoholic drinks.

76. Given Hugh Stephenson is somewhat advanced in years, I don’t suppose it’s rude to suggest he might be phoning it an at best, if not absent altogether. Sorry to labour the point but given the regularity of issues with clues or the perennial Quiptic/cryptic confusion, it’s surely time to let someone else have a go. Some conversations with unnamed compilers suggest this is not an isolated view.

    Beyond the significant problems others have raised, I enjoyed this. SNORE was a distinct highlight. But sadly those problems are considerable, and both setter and editor bear some responsibility.

    Thanks to setter, blogger, and commenters.

77. Thanks, manehi, for confirming that my brain hasn’t completely quit on me.

    My question is: was Doc the dwarf actually pompous? I’m assuming we’re talking about the Disney version which I haven’t seen since I was a child, but I don’t recall him being particularly one way or another (unless perhaps he never went to Enchanted Forest Med School and is making an audacious claim).

78. Did about 60 percent. At 19A I had PRALINE which seems to fit.

79. MikeNz@73: Hilarious, but understandable.

    Jacob@47 and BlueDot@77: Fwiw, this may justify the ‘pompous’ element of the clue. (If the link works…)

80. It doesn’t but this will and you can find the trailer down the right-hand side….

81. No-one seems to have mentioned that cheongsam is well known (I think) because it was worn by the leading lady in the film The World of Suzie Wong.

82. …and Madame Butterfly?

83. I enjoyed the first three quarters of the crossword that I completed but got very put off by the NE corner. I managed to guess Doone and cheongsam from the wordplay even though they weren’t familiar to me but had put in host instead of mass in 6d. Doing a check revealed my mistake but then I was still very perplexed as to why medoc was the correct answer for 6 across. It soured my entire experience of the puzzle as I had spent way too long trying to sort something out that wasn’t really sortable.

84. Enjoyed, and to my surprise finished without too much fuss, though there were a few which you wouldn’t know if you didn’t know, if you see what I mean. I share the 6a and 11a disquiet, if 6a had a Def I’d have thought it a great clue though, it raised a smile. Thanks Manehi and Maskarade

85. @17, I thought again was a repetition of ‘initially’. Sorry if that’s been said already, I haven’t read all comments

86. Didn’t like this crossword very much.

    Too much obscure general knowledge needed. Which did make me admire the tenacity of overseas bloggers here who aren’t familiar with British cultural references.

    Spent soooooo very long pondering MEDOC vs Pompous, and missed DINING ROOM (despite lots of crossers) because of the enumeration issue.

    Well done everyone who managed it!

87. For Jacob and Tony – The Hallé is a fine orchestra with a proud history and an enviable current reputation, resident in the Bridgewater Hall under Mark Elder’s baton. By the sound of things (“obscure”, “beyond me”), its only crime is not to be resident in London? Or perhaps as a Manchester resident I’m just too touchy!
    Very enjoyable crossword by the way, thank you Maskarade.

88. With the unknown words and dodgy clues this was a bad day for me.
    Better luck tomorrow
    Thanks for the explanations

89. Brinkman@76. I’m afraid that, if what you say is true, the Guardian, like other print/online media would simply not replace Hugh, the Crossword Editor, should he not be up to continuing. We have none downunder to speak of, as Tim C has said. Several Guardian setters recently have mentioned their contact with Hugh and his advice about certain clues. I think he’s still very much involved, but not across everything. Who could be?
    If the newspapers/online media don’t see the value in investing in crosswords, minimally I think what’s needed is for the setter to submit the puzzle, with verified support of a reputable test solver.

90. [John B: As an American I find that there is much “beyond me” in the sense that the world is much bigger than my own experience. It’s not meant as anything derogatory. One of the joys of solving “foreign” crosswords is learning new things.]

91. Here in New South Wales Mont Blanc pens have had their moment of notoriety. In 2015 our premier had to resign over a gift of a $1,195 Mont Blanc pen from a developer.

92. 10ac I have no problem with sure=shore but I expect to hear adifference between for and fore.

93. GrahamH @92. Hilarious! 🙂

94. [Tony] – understood, thank you and apologies from across the pond!

95. Just catching up with some old print-outs.
    6d, MASS fair enough. But itcould have been HOST as in many people, such as a fighting force, and the consecrated wafer used in the Catholic mass
    6ac seems to have caused some bother. Doc is obviously a Disney dwarf, so can ‘me’ be pompous?
    No doubt about Medoc though, a Bordeaux AOC.
    Mont Blanc was, I believe, the best of all fountain pens, gold nibs and so on, so this was a double definition.
    It took some working out, but a good puzzle.

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