Guardian 28,988 / Brummie

80 comments on “Guardian 28,988 / Brummie”

1. Certainly on the easy side for Brummie and only twigged the theme late on, after spotting OYSTER CATCHER and then SANDPIPER etc. Also noticed Pat (PAY IN) CASH crossed with the Wimbledon winner clue. I liked WATER, STITCH UP, SPONGE and SHEAR but apart from CUSTODY, there weren’t many laughs along the way. Pleasant though.

   Ta Brummie & Eileen

2. Enjoyable puzzle.

   Liked ASPIC, DOCUMENT, CHAT (although I had initially entered TALK = rabbit hidden in deersTALKer), SAND (loi).

   New for me: artist John PIPER (17ac); trumpeter SWAN.

   I could not parse 31ac and I did not see the theme.

   Thanks, both.

3. TO for ‘turn over’ is in Chambers.

4. Some tortuous wordplay but, as Eileen says, all fair on close inspection. Totally missed the theme despite being a keen birder …

   Thanks, Brummie and Eileen.

5. Great spot, AlanC – I can never see / hear his name without remembering this
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7Tlhc0FUyg

6. You were not the only one with TALK.

   I thought early on there was a marine theme SAND, SPONGE, OYSTER, WATER, but saw the correct theme after completing a few more clues.

   Thanks Eileen and Brummie – somewhat easier than usual as I finished in one session.

7. Yes, iconic moment, Eileen. I’m off for a custardy LEMON SPONGE with my morning coffee.

8. As I’m a bit of a birdwatcher, spotting the theme after OYSTER/CATCHER helped a lot: where there’s a CHAT (once I realised it wasn’t TALK) there’s probably a STONE, and so on.

   REMIT=despatch? I suppose so. And = ‘N gets me every time. CUSTARDY was fun.

9. Wot Eileen said, although I found it harder than she did, and I did not see the birds, thinking it was more about criminality (stitch up, custody, entrapment). But I am very pleased it was really the birds! Many thanks Brummie and Eileen.

10. Another who saw the theme after I’d finished and regretted not looking earlier, although I was slow spotting redstart, so I’m not sure it would have helped with START, my LOI.

    I wasn’t caught by entering talk for CHAT as I thought that’s too easy, I’ll wait for crossers to confirm it, and they didn’t.

    I had the left hand side all done and dusted early, then took a lot longer solving the right hand side. HAMMER went in early, on first reading it, other than a pause to work out the order of the constituent parts to make a word, but I confused myself with pay by cash, not PAY IN CASH, until I couldn’t make ENTRAPMENT work.

    Thanks to Eileen and Brummie.

11. Managed to spot the theme after I’d finished…

    In 11a I think TO for turnover is as in the turnover of a business (more usually written T/O) rather than as in PTO.

    Pet peeve. A question mark to indicate “for example” is fine, but only, in my opinion, when it’s next to the thing that is the example. So in 8d, “deerstalker?” means “deerstalker for example”. But in 26a, where the definition should be “Beryl?” (that is, “Beryl for example”), the question mark is at the other end of the clue, and seems to apply to “weight”, not to “beryl”. So it doesn’t quite seem to work to me.

    Thanks Brummie and Eileen.

12. Eileen, did you ever get this nickname? 🙂

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryl_the_Peril

13. I kept my middle name to myself as far as I could, Alan – but, of course, I was aware of the Peril, along with the Menace.

14. I found it rather a slog but my fault rather than Brummie’s. I thought early on there was a theme of police mispractice with entrapment and stitch up. As I was struggling to get started I pencilled in “Brown Wire” for Live in 27 even though I couldn’t find any connection with the wordplay. I was pleased to realise I was wrong.

15. Lord Jim @11. I didn’t know that. The Chambers’ entry I mentioned @3 is, however, two words.

16. shearwater, yellowhammer, mute swan, oyster catcher, sand piper, red start, and there must be a something chat.

17. It’s a stonechat.

    (But we never even noticed all these until after we’d finished it.)

18. The themers are all British birds, so it’s just as well that you don’t have to know any of them to complete the grid if solving in the US or the Antipodes. Nicely done, Brummie.

19. I still don’t understand TUM for Corporation in 29D.

    Other than that, it was enjoyable, even to one who knows no birds and could not find the theme even after finishing.

20. A nice solve and an elegant theme. Wonder if there are multiple ways of parsing 11 ac. TO – certainly is basketball – is a recognised abbreviation for TURN OVER / TURNOVER – where a team loses possession without a shot/rebound being involved (error / wrong part of court). So it could be [NOT UP] + [TO] + [I] + [T] as opposed to [NOT UP] + [T] + [O] + [I] + [T]. Or it could be TURN OVER extracted from PLEASE TURN OVER. Parsing isn’t always a precise subject.

    Once met Pat Cash at Wimbledon, while my son’s autograph book was being signed – a charming fella !

    Doing conscious uncoupling from all this detail but sticking to the overview of the crossword answers, here’s my ewrworm for the day

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yKNxeF4KMsY

    Could have thought about an REM earworm, I suppose but I’m losing my religion.

    Thank you Brummie and Eileen.

21. Lovely bird theme, obvs only noticed after coming here! Many thanks Brummie and Eileen.

22. Jacob @19 – well worth filing away, as it crops up fairly often: ‘corporation’ is slang for belly, paunch = TUM(my)

23. Unlike Shanne@10, I completed the bottom half quickly and then got stuck on the top. 8dn was a very mean trick which I fell for HL&S. I love it. Thanks to Brummie and Eileen.

24. Well, I saw RED NOSE and assumed it was something to do with the ‘day’; that’s for the birds.

    As Hovis @3 says, TO is in Chambers as an abbreviation for turn over, so I think that solves the parsing for NOT UP TO IT. I liked UPHOLDER after I spent too long wrestling over Wimbledon champions and HAMMER for the woman’s clobber.

    Thanks Brummie and Eileen (especially for the street art that I missed).

25. Thanks, Brummie and Eileen. All good fun. Completely oblivious to the theme, as usual!

    I know “TO” as a proofreading mark, giving an instruction to the typesetter to turn/take over copy to the next line or page.

26. Completely missed the birds.
    I, too, initially had TALK for 8d and I can’t actually see any reason why it isn’t a legitimate solution of the clue as set; which for me implies that the clue isn’t really satisfactory. But that didn’t spoil the enjoyment of a well-constructed puzzle.
    Ta, both.

27. I thanked the wise friend who advised me to use pencil when completing the paper version when I started out 40 years ago (thanks Roger), because talk had to be the answer to 8d, until it wasn’t.
    I was also partially led up a garden path by the tennis references (cash, not up (to it), Wimbledon winner). I did wonder if anyone called Holder had ever won the men’s trophy. I was certain Noddy Holder hadn’t! The women don’t receive a cup.
    And no obvious howlers today – we move forward!
    Thanks to E&B

28. Aspic in the Quick today as well.

29. monkeypuzzler @27
    That’s why I wrote ‘winner of the men’s singles championship’. 😉

30. Spotted theme early on with OYSTER CATCHER YELLOW HAMMER etc etc
    Would have found it tough otherwise
    I liked CUSTODY and thought 11 had slipped out of his CYCLOPS folder!
    Repeated motif in Ulysses “Who’s getting it up?”

31. Pleasant puzzle. For some reason I had a bit of difficulty to start with in the NW quadrant but it all fell out fairly easily in the end. Favourites were NOT UP TO IT and LEMON BALM – both with clever constructions and interesting surfaces.

    As I already had the H, I wasn’t decoyed into inserting ‘talk’ instead of CHAT 🙂

    Halfway through I made a desultory attempt to find a theme but forgot to look for one at the end, as usual.

    [Etymological aside: the ‘start’ in REDSTART is an archaic word meaning ‘tail’ or ‘rump’ – the expression ‘stark naked’ is a corruption of ‘start naked’, ie ‘butt naked’. And the related flycatcher, the wheatear, was also known as the ‘wheatears’ – thought to be derived from ‘white arse’]

    Thanks to Brummie and Eileen Beryl 😉

32. Most of the birds are unfamiliar to me, so I’m not shocked I didn’t see the theme. But I did know the trumpeter swan, because The Trumpet of the Swan was one of my favorite books as a kid. Not as well-known as EB White’s other children’s classic Charlotte’s Web, but just as delightful.

    I’ve not seen the second definition of “stitch up” before (the one not involving sutures), so I assume it’s British.

    Overall I found this tricky, but I’m not really sure why, in hindsight.

33. Good fun. Missed the theme, as always.

34. Missed the theme. Couldn’t parse start without your help, thanks.

35. Another who bunged in Talk at 8d early on, and then of course couldn’t get 10 and 12ac to fit in. Made me think it must have been a deliberate red herring on Brummie’s part. Still think Talk is every bit as valid as CHAT. Too many unparsed to call this an enjoyable solve this morning – START, ENTRAPMENT and UPHEAVAL (LOI). Lots of clues that seemed itsy bitsy, though not a bikini in sight. And I imagine the setter had to be a mite careful in his cryptic construction of DOCUMENT. Thanks as ever for shining the light on the darkness, Eileen.

36. Finally this week, a good crossword, after Monday’s mess, and Tuesday’s “meh”.
    Clever cluing, nice surfaces, misdirection, a ghost theme.
    I especially liked the clue for SPONGE for its succinctness: “Wipe bum”
    {Eileen, slight typo: “[d]ELUD[d]”}
    Thanks Brummie & Eileen

37. In 12A, REM is not “blinking fast”, but movement of the eyeballs while dreaming.
    But an enjoyable solve and blog, revealing that I missed the theme as always. Thanks, Brummie and Eileen.

38. Thanks,FrankieG – corrected now.

39. Thanks Eileen, I must be in a low gear today as I missed the theme (2nd time hidden birds have flown over my head) despite congratulating myself on sufficient familiarity with our feathered friends to get 1d, found quite a few tricky (maybe because of that, but also cunning clueing eg who thinks of Djokovic as the cupholder?) and didn’t even spot that TALK could be a valid answer to 8d. And i never parsed 31a!
    Agree with FrankieG’s second line and enjoyed unravelling it all, top 1d, 11a, 14d (hint of indirect!), thanks Brummie.
    And thanks Valentine, I knew the etymology of redstart (a welcome arrival at the end of winter here) but not the Wheatear.

40. If 8d is TALK then what’s the question mark after deerstalker doing?

    Totally missed the theme but did feel something was going on as it felt a bit forced in places

    Cheers B&E

41. Liked ELUDE, OYSTER, SWAN and DOCUMENT.

    Thanks, Brummie and Eileen!

42. Didn’t love Mon/Tue so today was a welcome bit of entertainment – some nice technical clues and some stretched-but-not-too-far definitions. Thanks Brummie.

43. Put in TALK and hence completely failed on NE. Should have realised an embedded four letter word would be too easy for this setter. When I gave up and came here, another FLW resulted

    But thanks both.

44. CHAT was a write-in at 8d for me, since “caught” is nearly always C and “deerstalker” screamed out “hat”, and I was confused by all the comments from people, including our esteemed blogger, saying they put TALK.

    Had to spend a good minute staring at the clue to work out why that could be a possible solution… Oh yeah! Now I see it. How funny.

45. TimSee @37 – I thought exactly that. It’s a slightly unsatisfactory clue on two counts in my view: first, as you say it’s not blinking (which involves opening and closing eyes, which is not what happens in REM sleep); and secondly it’s an indication of REM sleep, not the thing itself. But I admit to a certain level of pedantry in this comment…

46. I spent a while thinking PICAS, as in unusual foods wanted by pregnant women etc. was a bit of a stretch for 13d, until the penny dropped.

47. ‘Short’ appears four times in the clues which got me thinking it might be part of a theme. We also had cuts, cut, tear, nick, reduced, and clip. I don’t want to clip all those birds’ wings, but do we have a second (ghost?) theme going on here?

48. Another TALKer here. Looked for a theme, saw RED, YELLOW, then nothing; saw three UPs but that went nowhere. Still, had fun with it.

    Thank you Eileen for dereferencing your faves in the blog. (Programming term to mean following a pointer to its target value)

49. TimSee @37 and RobT @45 I don’t think it’s pedantry – it threw me for a while as well – since movement of the eyes behind the lids is patently not the same as movement of the eyelids. I also don’t see the need for the tortology in ‘triumphant Wimbledon winner’, unless I’m missing something? Otherwise a good challenge and enjoyable puzzle, thanks Eileen and Brummie.

50. Thanks Brummie for a very satisfying crossword. As usual I started in the NW corner and I thought this would be a major DNF but it turned out to be fairly easy once I got going. Favourites included REMIT, NIGHTGOWN, CROP, ASPIC, MUTE, and DOCUMENT, the latter for its surface. I didn’t look for a theme but I only know two of the birds Eileen mentioned so it’s just as well. Thanks Eileen as always.

51. Gervase@31 – I only hovered over 15² today to check on the theme, but I’d also thought to make a comment about the connection between the ‘start’ of ‘redstart’ and ‘stark’ in ‘stark naked’ – and I also would have mentioned ‘butt naked’…. it’s always tickled me – like other small, but unnoticed, corruptions to words (all the dropped initial letters of course, explaining link between apron and napkin for example; even Snottingham losing its initial!), a super example being the slow, and gentle, corruption of the once well known “Parthian shot” into today’s more used, but thinner, “parting shot”……
    but you stole my thunder, Gervase!
    [Right now, the English language disrespecters are relishing the job they’ve done in recent years on our fast vanishing wonderful verb “to affect” replacing it invariably by some incorrect usage of “to impact on” with the “on” usually missing in action anyway. Oh what a world!]

    This was a typically delightful Brummie. Many thanks – and to Beryl too! ?

52. [Oops, sorry Gervase, I mistakenly credited Valentine earlier, definitely a slow day for me! Thanks William FP for the hint.] and good point Redrodney re the tautological tort.

53. Re 26A: I put SETON having discovered that there is/was a dancer called Beryl Seton. Fits the clue : SE (south-east) + TON (putting on weight) = BERYL. How could it have been otherwise!

54. Hard luck, DD!

55. Redrodney @49: I now realise why I was looking for a Wimbledon winner called Holder. I took triumphant = up.

56. Late to this again. A very gentle offering.
    I liked SPONGE – clever combination of definitions and OYSTER. Spotted the theme after I’d finished.

    Thanks Brummie and Eileen

57. Excellent midweek puzzle. Thanks B and E.

    Can’t believe we haven’t had any comments from the homophone police (yet) regarding 22a ?.

58. We thought the fodder for an anagram had to be in the clue in order to be legit. So we raised our eyebrows at having to come up with IE to add in for MARIONETTE. Haven’t seen any other comment about it, so maybe it’s perfectly all right (though unusual).

59. A satisfying puzzle – solved it pretty steadily, looked for a theme, found it (with all the instances). I know it wasn’t difficult, but it pleased me anyway.

    Thanks to Brummie and Eileen.

60. This puzzle makes me grateful that we have bloggers. I’d never have caught this theme even though I’ve heard of most of the birds (but never seen any of them).

    AlanC@12 Thanks for the link. I now know that there’s another Dennis the Menace besides our American one — yours is much more menacing.

    ravenrider@14 What in heaven’s name is Brown Wire?

    I got hung up on 24d (Cry over old Welsh chicken) thinking that “hen” is a Welsh word for “old,” and a something hen must be a kind of chicken. Took crossers to get me off that one.

    AlanC@12 Thanks for the link, from which I learned that there’s a British Dennis the Menace who is much more menacing than our American one.

    And thanks to Brummie and Eileen the Peril.

61. Valentine@60: if you want to start a major transatlantic dispute about a quiz, ask a question about the name of Dennis The Menace’s dog…

62. I enjoyed this puzzle but I’m with Jacob – I don’t understand TUM for corporation – please can someone enlighten me? It’s the one thing that’s still bothering me. I solved the clue anyway, but came here to have my curiosity assuaged!

63. Mutley–it’s been explained already, but “corporation” is a (perhaps old-fashioned) way to refer to a large belly. So is TUM (short for tummy). It’s a common enough ruse that you should always think of it when you see the word “corporation.”

64. Pianola@53: I agree with you about i.e. in the MARIONETTE clue. Indirect anagrams are against the rules, and Guardian setters have been bending that particular rule for a little while now. That one’s bent a little too far for my taste, but hey–I got there, so I guess the clue was fair?

    In other news, 15 Squared seems to keep forgetting me even though I consistently tick the “Remember Me” box. Anyone else having this problem?

65. Mutley @62 – please see my comment @22. I do try to answer queries on my blog, as I did here, six minutes later. 😉

66. mrpenney @64 – this happens to all of us from time to time. See the penultimate question in FAQs https://www.fifteensquared.net/faq/

67. Excellent puzzle – thanks both.
    Oyster as aphrodisiac was new to me!

68. MrPenney@64, the blog for Azed 2633 has a discussion of Azed’s interpretation of the Ximenean principle of “fair anagrams”. Guardian setters, though not Ximenean in general, seem to stick to this one. There is leeway for interpretation, as always.

69. DD @53. SETON was my initial answer too till the crossers made me think again!

70. Re 26a: I wondered about “obese” in case someone named Beryl had been awarded a gong

71. Once again, too late for anyone to see, but here goes anyway. Herewith a defence of indirect anagrams (at least some of them).

    mrpenny@64, in support of pianola@58, writes “Indirect anagrams are against the rules.” What rules?

    Our esteemed Roz (who incidentally doesn’t like indirect anagrams) has said on occasion that there is only one rule – the setter sets and the solver solves. Why is this particular form of indirection unacceptable, while other indirections and misdirections are OK?

    My only corollary to Roz’s rule would be “a clue is unacceptable if it is unfair”. I do not see how an indirect anagram is inherently unfair. For example, given the ubiquity of “i.e.” for “that is”, and “e.g.” for “for example” or “say”, is it unfair to ask a solver to figure out that “ie” or “eg” should be added to the anagram fodder? It is disingenuous to argue that it is wrong because ie or eg is not in the clue. Any synonym is not in the clue. That it requires two steps to get to the solution is also not a valid complaint, if the two steps are easily discernable from the clue.

    I would agree that if an indirect anagram is of the “think-of-a-synonym-that-is-not-obvious-and-make-an-anagram-of-that-and-add-that-to-the-anagram-fodder” type, it could be considered unfair. But I would argue that the problem is not that the anagram is indirect, but that the clue is too obscure to be fair. Of course that is subjective, but what is wrong with that?

    This is all to say that in the clue for 14d MARIONETTE, asking the solver to see “that is” and add “ie” to the anagram fodder is not a major stretch, and so to label the clue as against the rules is unfair to the setter.

    Rant over (for now), and thanks to Brummie and Eileen for the excellent Wednesday entertainment.

72. Thanks for that, cellomaniac. I agree entirely.

73. Valentine @60, sorry I should have explained that in the UK, and probably Europe, the live wire in an electrical cable is brown; I don’t know about other regions

74. Cellomaniac @71 – Worth reading the Azed blog mentioned by TimSee @68. In brief, Azed agrees with you – he says indirectness is fair if the indirect element is indicated unequivocally.

75. I agree with cellomaniac @71 about the fairness of the clue for 14d. I would add that the setter didn’t just put ‘that is’ and expect us to add IE to the fodder, it’s ‘in short, that is’ which is so generous it was a write in for me.

    I was less appreciative of 31a, where the shortening of ST(reet) ART never occurred to me. There were quite a few others that seemed too tricky to solve yesterday but they all fell in five minutes over breakfast this morning, which suggests that any difficulty was in my head rather than in Brummie’s clues.

76. I thought everyone else would have gone by now, so have only just seen recent comments.
    As sheffield hatter says, the clue was scrupulously fair:
    ‘An anagram (maybe) of IE (that is, in short) + NO MATTER, as I read it and wrote in the blog.’
    I’m going out now!

77. Eilleen @22, TYVM. Dutifully filed away for future reference!

78. Beryl@66, Ditto.

79. No everybody hasn’t gone Eileen. Just arrived. I’m a bit behind and struggled with this one. Not helped by not knowing Brummie did themes.
    All fair but hated WATER which included W for with
    Cheers both

80. Hi Tim – I’m just in from the theatre.

    That’s the trouble with Brummie – you never know whether there’s a theme or not. My impression is that there is, more times than not. There are statisticians here who could tell you more accurately, I’m sure.
    W for with is surely common enough? I’ve no problem with it.

    (I’m going to bed now. 😉 )

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