Guardian Cryptic 29,031 by Tramp

87 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 29,031 by Tramp”

1. AS you say, not the easiest! I had BLEACH and BOTHER straight away, but I could not get any down clues for ages and so it went with about 6 or 7 filled in at the first pass, but it came together slowly, with som clues only half parsed,
   #
   Thanks Tramp and manehi for the further enlightenment

2. I’m surprised to admit I actually enjoyed this, despite finding it hard and progress slow. Some clues required a bit of post-entry thought to get all the parsing sorted out – TIE DOWN probably the most convoluted of the lot – but I failed on NEEDLE=hand (I blame the late hour, nearly 1am). Liked REPAST, short and sweet.

   Was not 100% convinced about show=say (in ESSAY), and would not have defined ETHANOL as principally a solvent, but some dictionaries do, so objection retracted.

   Thanks T&M

3. Dr WhatsOn@2. I liked NEEDLE, but I can understand that if it was nearly 1am it might not have been all that obvious.
   Interestingly, my former workplace sent me for a cognitive assessment last year when I was going on 70.
   One of the things I had to do was draw the hands of a watch in analog time. I wondered how the young’uns would fare with that.

4. For non Brits (like me) who may have had trouble with the wordplay for HARDLINER, and the meaning ‘unlucky’, the link below gives a few theories as to the etymology. The nautical ones appeal to me.

5. Oops, unlucky that.
   https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/hard-lines.html

6. Persevered for nearly an hour but had hardly cracked the surface. I’d only recently moved Tramp from my “bad” list to my “good” list, having recently successfully completed one, but now he’s moved back. (And I hasten to point out that those labels describe my ability to solve, nothing to do with the quality of the puzzles.)

7. Too many pulled faces made this no fun.

8. A good puzzle which was too good for me. I failed on CONTROL and couldn’t parse STANCE (never heard of in the mountaineering sense) or HARDLINER (thanks for the link, paddymelon @5).

   Didn’t make up for my failure to solve the puzzle, but I was pleased to get the difficult BEEFALO in the end. I particularly liked BLOKEY along the way.

   Thanks to Tramp and manehi

9. Agree with Dr Wh re say =? show, and dnk the climbers’ meaning of stance. Otherwise ok, but yes more slog than stroll. Ta Tramp and manehi.

10. gif@9. I don’t get say=show either. STANCE I had to google.

11. Thanks for the blog, manehi.

    What time does the clock say/show? Probably a bit unfair, on reflection.

    I’ve clued BEEFALO before.

    Neil

12. Very tough, for me at least. Absolutely no idea about BEEFALO and needed your help to parse RIOT ACT. some terrific clues, though, of which COSTUME was probably my favourite.

13. Thanks Tramp and manehi
    Yes, difficult. Much use of wordsearches.
    CONTROL is an example of the sort of clue I dislike – find a non-obvious synonym, then insert something else non- obvious; parsable only in retrospect, for me at least.
    Favourite COSTUME.

14. Too hard for me – I got about halfway and gave up when forced to reveal BEEFALO which I had never heard of.
    Spent ages trying and failing to parse COSTUME – I had church as COE and big belly as TUM, with suit as S (spades). However this left nothing for the definition, unless ‘suit’ was both definition and clue. Didn’t think of OS as ‘big’.

15. As ever with Tramp, the parsing was the hardest part. Never encountered that use of STANCE and nho BEEFALO.
    A good challenge.
    Thanks to T and to manehi for the parsing.

16. In tramp’s defence “what do the data say/show” seems ok to me.
    Never come across hard lines before.
    Loved this XW. Tough but doable

17. Funnily enough I found this reasonably straightforward, with everything clued fairly. Liked BOTHER, LAWYER, GOLDEN DELICIOUS, HARDLINER and COSTUME. Just in the zone today I suppose.

    Ta Neil & manehi.

18. BEEFALO did indeed cross a line of difficulty for me, unfamiliar word, complex wordplay and definition that only just works. Harry and Spare seem to be a gift that keeps on giving for setters. Thanks to both setter and blogger.

19. As a non-expert solver I was delighted to not only complete this, albeit in two sittings, but also parse every one except NEEDLE=hand.
    Thanks both.

20. A tough challenge but, looking back, nothing that I found at all unfair.

    I was helped somewhat by having blogged Tramp’s Prize puzzle last month, where he clued POTHER with ‘Commotion from Spare by Prince’ and, in the same blog, I’d taken a long time to remember ‘at’ = ‘for’, in parsing FAT CAT: it came more readily this morning.

    I enjoyed building up BEEFALO from the ingenious wordplay. It rang a distant bell and, searching the archive, I found that Tramp, as he notes @11, had clued it before (last August: ‘Stingy thing following sale, shelled out at the start’. I love it when setters recycle answers (especially less familiar words) with entirely different and equally clever wordplay.)

    STANCE, in that sense was new for me, too – but what a clever clue: a simple anagram, really but giving such a great surface.
    Other favourites, in addition to manehi’s, were 4ac BOTHER, 10ac LAWYER, 14ac SANITY, 3dn CONTROL, 6dn HARDLINER, and 20dn COSTUME.

    Many thanks to Tramp for an enjoyable workout and to manehi for an excellent blog.

21. I got there, but didn’t parse the ‘say’ part of ‘essay’. (As Tramp admits, probably a bit unfair). Neither did I parse ‘Tie Down’ – I toyed with both ‘toe hold’ and ‘tea loaf’ but couldn’t get either to work with the crossers. Fortunately, unlike the old school maths exams, if you get the right answers you don’t have to show your workings.

22. Enjoyable challenge, with some very intricate constructions (NEEDLE, TIE DOWN) but enough more transparent clues to give the solver a way in. Surfaces are mostly excellent – the one for MANHANDLE is a bit clunky.

    I didn’t know that meaning of STANCE, but the solution was clear from the crossers and the clue has a perfect surface. SAY/‘show’ puzzled me as well (thanks for fessing up Tramp 🙂 ).

    Particular favourites were PERSONAL STEREOS, LAWYER, ETHANOL, AIRTIME. BOTHER is neat.

    Thanks to Neil and manehi

23. Another who didn’t understand SAY=show (though I did bung in the answer as it couldn’t be anything else). Not fair, as you say Tramp.

24. Paddymelon@5 – thanks for reminder of how the lines can fall. I suspected naval terminology (such as those frequently revealed by the dearly beloved Patrick O’Brian novels) but it seems not in this case. JamesG@16 – thanks for your example of say=show. That’s better than my “what time does it say?” attempt. This was a tough crossword but it all worked out and every single clue is fair and what seemed to be doubtful synonyms proved to be justifiable. It’s good to get the fatty grey muscle working hard. Thanks and admiring appreciation to manehi and Tramp.

25. I hadn’t fully parsed TIE DOWN, got the tin and e but was looking blankly at dow before I got here or RIOT ACT because it was my last one in and I didn’t stop to parse it. Otherwise I must have been on Tramp’s wavelength because I found this slightly easier than yesterday’s puzxle.

    Thanks to Tramp and manehi.

26. PS I’m afraid I have to disagree with muffin about CONTROL. I don’t think there is anything abstruse about this fine clue.

27. HARRY, LAWYER, SANITY and BLOKEY ( as clueing or answers ) in one crossword… and what’s he been doing this week ? Only been a HARDLINER on OUTINGS to London’s High COURT, trying to NEEDLE, make a POINT, take a STANCE and gain CONTROL at the CENTRE of the phone hacking pre-hearing. He’s had loads of AIRTIME on telly and hopes the newspapers will be read the RIOT ACT and get BUSTED.

    “Beefalo” was a jorum for me within a great crossword all round.

    Thank you Neil and manehi.

28. Only just seen Tramp@11 so feel a bit smug now about my clock showing the time,

29. Gervase@22 Could you then explain the surface of
    Unlimited entry hacking into smart key?

    Thanks Tramp and manehi. I enjoyed my first attempts late last night, but not the finishing push this morning.

30. Im told tha BEEFALO came in a puzzle last august. It was new to me then, and with my creeping memory loss new to me again! I’m grateful to Manehi for parsing 3d.

31. Yes, for me this was toughest Guardian Cryptic I’ve tackled for some time. Finally just defeated by the interlocking BEEFALO, (a nho), and FORMALLY. Getting the correct anagram fodder for GOLDEN DELICIOUS helped. Felt out of my depth at times today.

32. Took a while, but I got there. It was a all bit knotty! Had to check meanings of BEEFALO and STANCE. Didn’t know ‘hard lines’, but it had to be HARDLINER. Didn’t mind ‘say’ for ‘show’. Couldn’t work out NEEDLE for ‘hand’, but it makes sense now. Thanks to Tramp and manehi.

33. Dave Ellison @29. A smart key is the kind of key fob that you can keep in your pocket when getting into your car or a building. I guess if you hacked into the smart key’s software you could copy the key and get unlimited access to the building.

34. Criceto @33: Thanks for jumping in!

    Dave E @29: I agree that this isn’t the best of surfaces, but muffin’s complaint was about the construction

35. The def for BEEFALO was okay by me, as a butcher’s/grazier’s daughter. I might be a bit thick but I don’t get the BEE part. Is ‘written’ like a visual homophone? 🙂 Serious question though, if anyone can enlighten me.

36. If you hacked into a smart key for a car, say, you might have unlimited access (to the car). I think it’s OK. What do I know?

37. Eileen @20: talking about recycling clues , although by a different setter, this was Picaroon’s clue for RIOT ACT, three weeks ago –
    Measure to avoid disorder in South American diplomacy? (4,3). Totally dissimilar but just as smooth.

38. paddymelon@35 : I see “written” as a charade indicator. Bee is the 2nd letter in the alphabet as per meaning 2 Merriam Webster

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bee

    ( There’s a natural hyphen in that hyperlink ; I put this remark in, following yesterday’s discussion [FrankieG initiated] about natural hyphens and non line breaking hyphens – the ones that cannot line wrap and where shift and CONTROL keys are held down along with the hyphen. )

39. This was a tough BEEFALO to crack…and we didn’t. Some satisfying solves, but some extreme toughies… Particularly enjoyed BOTHER, GOLDEN DELICIOUS and SANITY. Thanks for the challenge Tramp!

40. Oddly, I found this much easier than yesterday, helped by 1a and 4a giving a good way in.
    Thanks both.

41. Difficult but enjoyable solve.

    I liked COSTUME for the big belly, LAWYER for the wordplay (and definition), BOTHER for the splendid surface, and RIOT ACT for the ‘hidden’ definition. I tried to parse BEEFALO as B/EE and thought EE was loose for E, doh!. Pm @35, here’s the Chambers definition of BEE: bee
    noun
    The second letter of the modern English alphabet (B or b)

    Thanks Tramp for the challenge (and popping in) and manehi for a comprehensive blog.

42. Way too difficult for me. After two sessions totalling about an hour and a half, I’d got seven answers, so gave up and came here. Your blog was much appreciated, manehi! Thanks to Tramp for dropping by to explain some of the parsing: I now see there’s nothing completely unreasonable in the clues.

    I feel I’ve been put in my place today. 🙂

43. I agree with Gervase @26. I got CONTROL by taking the outer letters off (e)NTR(y), which clearly suggested which ‘key’ would be the grid entry, and a quick subtraction gave COOL for ‘smart’.

    I was pleased with myself for working out BEEFALO from the wordplay and crossers before vaguely remembering its previous appearance; I had to solve that before I trusted that FORMALLY was going to be correct, but in fact the clue for the latter is perfectly ok, if misleading.

    Thanks to Tramp and Manheim.

44. A tough one for me, with many unparsed and two (15A and 16d) entirely unsolved, so thank you Manheim.

    I wrote in BEEFALO as the only thing I could think of that fit the crossers with no idea of either the definition or the parsing!

45. Tough, fair and an enjoyable battle

    Many thanks to Tramp and Manehi

46. [Apologies to manehi that he has once again been moved to the banks of the Rhine by autocorrect. (In Jacob’s @44 as well as mine @43.)]

47. Yes, very tough. Had to resort to a word search for BEEFALO, despite getting as far as BEE?AL?. Never heard of it and for some reason couldn’t see the FO from “before”. It is never very satisfying having to resort to that, particularly when there is only one word which fits, so a DNF here.

48. Thanks to Tramp for a stimulating mental work-out with some excellent surfaces and amusing answers.
    Thx also to manehi for his blog – too many favourites to list.

49. Excellent although I must admit BEEFALO was a new one for me!

50. Criceto@33, Gervase@34 and Tramp@36 thanks. I was fixated on the keyboard key, I hadn’t though of the ones you give.

51. BEEFALO must be more commonly seen here in the States; I’ve heard the word many times and even eaten some once or twice. The idea is that bison are hardier and do less environmental damage (you need fewer acres of ranchland for the same size herd), but their meat is too gamy for mass appeal. So cross-breed with standard beef cattle, and you get the best of both worlds.

52. Thanks manehi, I hadn’t considered BO for Box Office and missed AT=for (again), James G@16 for that justification, and Tramp for the excellent puzzle (lots of trickiness but always clear in retrospect even if i needed help as above) and popping up to add extra details – and I hope you gave yourself a pat on the back after crafting 15A, what a great spot.
    What further slowed me up on 3d is that while it is pronounced in full, I think I have only ever seen it written CTRL. Silly as of course that’s what it means!

53. Very hard. I got only a few in last night and a few more this morning and then had to resort to cautious use of the Check button for the rest. But I enjoyed a lot of the clues when I got them.

    11a Anybody else try an anagram of “MAIN PIECE” without A?

    Thanks, Tramp and manehi.

54. Tough but completely fair – a few parsings that got away, but no grumbles from me. I seem to be the only one who struggled with custom = form, but just about satisfied myself that they both mean “the done thing”.

    I tend to think if something is only synonymous in one phrase it’s unfair (e.g. ‘wing’ might mean ‘protection’ in the phrase ‘under one’s wing’, but that’s about it). Show = say can appear in a few ways, mostly numerical as far as I can figure out. It’s difficult, and I didn’t parse it, but I don’t think it’s unfair!

    Cheers Tramp & manehi.

55. Paddymelon@3

    https://i.chzbgr.com/full/9669704192/h8BB261F4/packaged-goods-draw-small-clock-shows-10-minutes-past-1100-1110-jessica-gave-out-survey

56. “glad there were some easier clues to get started”….

    I have yet to find one! LOL.

    I deliberately haven’t read any of the comments so far as I am going to go back to have another go – this does appear ridiculously difficult to me.

57. Incidentally, it’s not easy coming up with different clues for words you’ve clued before: sometimes several times. How the full-time setters, who set far more puzzles than I do, get round this is beyond me. For example, for lawyer, it’s hard not to use the “wife in bed” idea.

58. Tough puzzle.

    Liked BOTHER (which sums up quite well what I think of Prince Harry).

    2d – I could not see why show = say… Tramp@11 – thanks for explaining it.

    I did not parse 6d (that’s new for me that hard lines = unlucky).

    Also new for me: BEEFALO; STANCE = a ledge or foothold on which a belay can be secured.

    Thanks, both.

59. Tramp@57 varieties : Your post’s reminded me of another RIOT ACT ( Cyclops )

    Parliament’s attempt to stop dissenting groups: “Big city diplomacy”(4,3)

    I don’t set but when you’re clueing a word you’ve clued before, don’t you say to yourself “I’m determined to break up the fragments differently this time” ?

    For instance your LAWYER can be broken up quite a few ways

    Advocate gibbon’s bathing in river ? No, the other way round. (6)

    Suit spineless Scottish town ? Its innards are way out. (6)

    And there’s always messing around with “awry” combined with “the Spanish” / “the French” – haven’t worked out exact machinations.

    …. just musing ….

60. Flea@38 – so it’ll do this:
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bee
    But how would I – assuming that I’d ever need to – generate a “non line breaking hyphen” when ctrl-shift-+/- controls zoom on my machine?

61. Flea @59. You claim not to be a setter and yet you instinctively alight on LAR and clue it ‘gibbon’, which suggests you have the requisite focus on the obscure to make a good’un. (WYE was a good spot, to be fair.)

62. Nd@55 🙂

63. I’ve always struggled with Tramp, but this one completely crushed me. Gave up after a few minutes and waited for the reveal

64. BRUTAL. BRUTAL. BRUTAL.

    Dishearteningly so.

    I managed to get zero clues solved.

    I hope tomorrow is easier.

    Does “AT” always mean “FOR” in cryptic crosswords?
    Does “perhaps” mean anything specific in cryptic crosswords?

65. Thanks for the blog, Tramp just keeps getting better and better, not trying to be too with it, eschewing themes and making the word play the priority . Many fine clues .
    No problem with say/show , I will frequently ask – What do the Feynman diagrams say/show ? using both terms about equally.

66. Steffen we have all suffered crushing defeats in the past but we live to solve another day . Practice is the only way to get better .
    AT=FOR is quite rare in normal cryptics.
    Perhaps can be many things depending on the clue , often indicating an example of something.

67. Gervase
    Did you really say to yourself “smart – that’ll be COOL, then”?

68. Lots of fun to tease this one out. My favourite was LAWYER for the definition which extends over the whole clue (thinking of a British lawyer in a high court).
    No problem in hindsight with say=show=demonstrate. The number of unusual synonyms used in this puzzle (say/show, for/at, needle/hand) made for a toughish solve, but definitely fair imho, disagreeing the man himself!
    paddymelon @35, my two cents: written is included to indicate the standard spelling of the letter when written down. i.e Second letter = B. Second letter written = BEE.
    Thanks, Tramp and manehi for another absorbing puzzle and blog.

69. @68 disagreeing with
    Oh for an edit function!

70. [ FrankieG@60 : I don’t know how you slot in hyperlinks but that hyphen in the middle of merriam webster @60 is a natural hyphen ( I’ve had it through a hexadecimal editor ). So what I’m saying, can be paraphrased “if you’re going to copy and paste some text into 15^2 through your machine and you’re coming from a rather columnar part of 15^2’s blog, scan the text first to see if it is likely to contain a WordPress control character – _ & etc. If it does, select the first part of the text, but don’t select the control character. Paste your selection into your remark ( to be put in 15^2 and re-WordPress-ed ) and know that you’re only halfway through the action. Type the sussed out character naturally into your remark. Now that odd WordPress markup is avoided, start again with the back half of your copy, selecting and pasting adjacently. Now taking some control that has already been WordPressed and WordPressing it again cannot arise.”

    You know the Merriam-Webster hyphen in my @38 is natural because it’s broken, line to adjacent line. I tend not to copy and paste from the columnar parts of 15^2 owing to this type of problem ]

71. It’s always great to see new names on here. Amazing how many new names pop up, but, unfortunately, they tend to not stick around: try to stick with it, Steffen.

    Thanks for the clueing lesson, Flea. I’ll try to think of splitting words in different ways: it hadn’t occurred to me.

    Thanks for the comments.
    Neil

72. Too difficult. And I’m quite good.

73. Well we did enjoy this – eventually! Somewhat shamelessly perhaps, we check our partial solvings/parsings with the great Guardian in the sky, who is very patient (rather like the Sat Nav) with our mistakes.
    We finished having only properly looked up Outings and Riot Act.
    We’re slowly getting better at it.

74. In the range of solver experiences of this puzzle I fell in the ‘tough but fair’ camp – it gave me plenty to think about, but I was never stuck, and I enjoyed the whole experience.

    I counted nine instances of what might be called non-obvious definitions of the sort that gave rise to some of the discussion here. Tramp is one of those setters who seem adept at coming up with such definitions. Amoeba (@54) made the point “If something is only synonymous in one phrase it’s unfair (e.g. ‘wing’ might mean ‘protection’ in the phrase ‘under one’s wing’, but that’s about it)” – a point that I think would apply to hand = NEEDLE in 25a. Tramp is not the only setter to exploit such opportunities, and provided there is at least one clear example of a context in which the two words are synonymous I think it’s fair.

    The definition ‘stalk on this?’ in GOLDEN DELICIOUS is of another kind: what I would call an imaginative or whimsical definition, the ‘?’ making it clear in this case that it is a definition by example. I thought at first the definition was too vague, but I concluded it was justified by the clarity of the clue as a whole (no indirect anagrams or anything obscure in the wordplay).

    Thanks to Tramp and manehi.

75. Thanks to manehi and Tramp: for the tricky but fair puzzle and further comments.

    My only slight beef was with “personal stereos”; I am guessing the cryptic “listening devices” is OK with most, though they are of course playback devices not listeners…but for me the phrase is pretty obsolete and fairly unknown to the more youthful amongst us. I tend to think setters should consider using words like “old” or “vintage” when referring to (especially) technology which is not current, to make the puzzles a bit more accessible for the younger solvers.

    Cheers

76. Steffen@64 yes this was a tough one. But did you spot “unlimited” in 3d doing the same job as “barely” the other day?

77. Steffen @64: Further to Roz @66, ‘perhaps’ along with ‘maybe’, ‘possibly’ and ‘say’ (plus a few others) is often used in a definition by example. Eg. defining ‘gem’ as ‘ruby perhaps’. Two other uses you might also encounter: accompanying a cryptic or whimsical definition to acknowledge that all is not quite as it seems and occasionally as an anagram indicator. Hope that’s helpful.

78. Tramp @71: I shall look forward to the results of your experimentation; one’s never too old to learn new tricks 😉

79. 76. No. I didn’t spot this I’m afraid.

    77. Very helpful, thank you.

    Overwhelming at times!

    I bought the book “Solving Cryptic Crosswords for Dummies”.

    Do you guys have any other tips for good resources for learning?

80. BEEFALO not all that new for those who solve the Times crossword, especially their jumbo. Hello Neil, you never miss at least one smutty clue, this one lacked any, next time don’t disappoint me. A toughie but fair, this one.

81. So many contributors who made me laugh out loud. You know who you are. Thank you!!

82. I solved 1A straightaway thinking this might not be too hard but then went through all the other clues without solving anything. With a bit more work some more fell into place but I had to check a few and in the end reveal some. The parsing was on the whole straightforward though and perhaps if I’d spent more time on it I could have done better. Thank you Tramp and manehi

83. Anyone still there? I first heard ‘hard lines’ from a schoolteacher when I missed a goal at hockey. Teacher was Welsh, so i assumed it was a Welsh expression, but probably not.

84. I always like it when the setter appears on here to join in the discussion. Thanks Tramp.

    I managed to finish this one but needed some help from Crossword Solver so doesn’t really count as a proper finish to my mind 🙁

85. I surprised myself by getting BEEFALO despite never having heard of it, but then failed to get CENTRE even though there was nothing obscure about it and I had all the crossers.

    Very difficult but fun, somehow

86. Well nobody else complained so BO must mean box office I suppose though I don’t think I’ve seen it anywhere. I did see the origin of “box office” recently…something about roughly made boxes used in Tudor times to collect entrance money. So the boxes were delivered to the B O
    Thanks both

87. Tramp@71 yes indeed! Thank Heaven’s for Flea’s education. Here’s another idea that may have passed you by. Take the letters in a word, say “faster”, mix up the letters to get another word as in “strafe”; this is what is known as an ‘anagram’. I do hope you’ll find this helpful….. ?
    Nice, entertaining puzzle as ever…..and a great blog too. Many thanks both and all

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