Intersection by Vismut
Clues are listed in the normal order. In 20 clues, single extra letters generated by wordplay (not to be entered) spell in clue order what is unconventional about a thematic subject that can be read up from the circled letters of the completed grid. In the other 20 clues wordplay gives the answer to be entered minus one letter. In clue order these give the sixth word from a quote interspersed with a jumble of the quote’s second word that can be read, unjumbled, row by row, down the grid. The person responsible for the quote has turned up more than once in the completed grid and must be treated thematically to fill the empty silvered light, the intersection of two shapes to be drawn so that enclosed cells demonstrate the theme in accordance with the concepts of the quote. Were bars to be entered in the grid, they would display 180° symmetry; and the final grid, ignoring gaps, would consist of real words.
Well, it’s a long preamble, so, as usual, I try to glean the pertinent instructions and get on with solving.
I found the whole solving process quite tricky as it was hard to separate the two different clue types. At one point, the clues I’d solved made me hopeful that the clue types alternated and I was praising Vismut for the assistance but my joy was short lived.
I did the majority of my solving on Google Sheets with my trusted companion elmac. On the sheet, we had one cell (using the concatenate function) forming the “extra” letters and one forming the “missing” letters. The extra letters soon began to form RECTANGLE and the missing letters were a mess. After a bit more solving, the word SYMMETRY began to be a candidate from the missing letters. We also had another cell forming the word from the circled letters and we had DIGRAM for ages, which sent me down more than a few rabbit holes looking for some relationship between rectangles, digrams and symmetry. I then realised that the word was DIAGRAM.
It’s funny how everything eventually seems to come together at once as we established RECTANGLES NOT CIRCLES and SYMMETRY plus ENDEAVOUR.
I imagine that most crossword enthusiasts, myself included, immediately think of Inspector Morse when we see ENDEAVOUR, so I threw morse into the equation but quickly realised that that rabbit hole led nowhere.
Usually when we’re given a blank grid, the clues are presented in alphabetical order of answers but this time they were presented in normal clue order. This meant that it was easy to identify where the down clues started. This begs the question as to why they had to be presented that way.
Anyway, the grid fill went fairly smoothly except that I had ABA in place of ANA, which held me up for a while and COOLABAH was the last one I could justify.
Now, on to the end game, I eventually came across this page: https://libquotes.com/john-venn/quote/lbb3i9h, which gives us the quote: We endeavour to employ only symmetrical figures, such as should not only be an aid to reasoning, through the sense of sight, but should also be to some extent elegant in themselves, from John Venn – he of the Venn Diagram. Also, ENDEAVOUR is spelt out in the shaded cells.
VENN is to be found (reversed) in columns b & j (BertandJoyce??). Now, this is where I started to get confused and I’m not really sure if I have things right. Hopefully someone will be able to shed a bit more light.
What I decided we had to do is move both VENNs to column g but I’m not really sure why. And it occurred to me that, maybe, we have to write VENN the right way up in the shaded area but I don’t know why we should or why we shouldn’t.
All-in-all, it was a fun puzzle until the end when it all fell flat, for me at least. However, as always, thanks to Vismut.
| Across | ||||
| Clue |
Entry |
Extra |
Missing |
Wordplay |
| * Growing variety of cut alum Edmund’s plucking outside (12) | ACCUMULATING | R |
BRACING (plucking; Edmund Spenser) around CUT ALUM (anag: variety of) | |
| * Barney hot! Sally game! (13, 2 words) | SHOUTING MATCH | S |
SHOT+OUTING (sally)+MATCH (game) | |
| * Scorer is parrot with peg (6) | CHOPIN | E |
ECHO (parrot)+PIN (peg) | |
| * Counter area for display by Israel in local fair (6) | LIKELY | Y |
YLEK (area for display)+IL (Israel) rev: counter) | |
| * Added to SOS code broken under truce initially (9, 2 words) | HELPED OUT | C |
HELP (SOS)+T[ruce] (initially) around CODE (anag: broken) | |
| * Uncovered gold symbol for unit (3) | MOL | M |
M[g]OL[d] (uncovered) | |
| * Collection of someone’s possessions leads to Arthurian artefact (3) | ANA | N |
A[rthurian]N+A(aretfact) | |
| * Language over the top (3) | MON | M |
MON (over the top) | |
| * Bass lute briefly entertaining a bear (4) | BALU | T |
B+A+LUT[e] (briefly) | |
| * Virtuous people’s number brought forward American’s tantrums (5) | SNITS | A |
SAINTS (virtuous people) with N moved to the left | |
| * Plastic Yale, similar to metal (5) | LEADY | D |
DYALE (anag: plastic) | |
| * Model in return obliges (4) | TIES | E |
SEIT (model; rev: in return) | |
| * Accepted black hairy cloth (3) | ABA | A |
Accepted+BlackA | |
| * Starts to save up tiny amount of money (3) | SOU | O |
S[ave]O+U[p] starts to | |
| * Design cycling circuit (3) | LAP | N |
PLAN (design) with P cycled to the end | |
| * One in Aberdeen first to crochet Dorothy’s yarns (9) | ANECDOTES | E |
ANE (one; Scottish)+C[rochet] (first to)+DOTES (Dorothy’s) | |
| * Not working diamonds to the left in covering of gold (6) | IDLING | G |
GILDING (covering of gold) with Diamonds move to the left | |
| * Properly dispatches a learner to enter students’ accommodation (6) | HALALS | L |
HALLS (student’s accommodation) around A+Learner | |
| * Regularly mega puddles by bog where ultimately, it’s smelly (13, 3 words) | EAU DE TOILETTE | T |
[m]E[g]A[p]U[d]D[l]E[s] (regularly)+TOILETT (bog)+[wher]E | |
| * Accustomed to home-life without Jack, Josie’s medicated maybe before leaving (12) | DOMESTICISED | E |
[j]OSIES+MEDICATED minus AD (before) anag: maybe | |
| Down | ||||
| * Dead tissue aches awfully (6) | ESCHAR | R |
RACHES anag: awfully | |
| * It could be jolly swagman’s shade Australian’s seen in draughty box (8) <all together now ,,, Waltzing Matilda, Waltzing Matilda …> |
COOLABAH | S |
COOL (draughty)+Australian+BASH (box) | |
| * Informal drink Robin Goodfellow’s not finished, raised to cook (5) | CUPPA | N |
PUC[k] (Robin Goodfellow: A Midsummer Night’s Dream; rev: raised)+PAN (cook) | |
| * Taking care short slipper’s protecting neat dainty foot primarily (7) | MINDFUL | I |
MUL[e] around IN[eat] D[ainty] F[oot] (primarily) | |
| * Open exit briefly after ballot box emptied (4) | UNDO | O |
U[r]N (ballot box; emptied)+DOO[r] (exit; briefly) | |
| * A German with Oscar settles division in cell (8) | AMITOSIS | T |
A+MIT (with; German)+Oscar+SITS (settles) | |
| * Escorted to joust a knight’s hosting (5) | TAKEN | E |
jousT A KENight (hidden: hosting) | |
| * Couple call maiden over (4) | ITEM | C |
CITE (call)+M (maiden over) | |
| * Borders of Grampians overshadowing rough hilly glens (6) | GHYLLS | I |
G[rampian]S (borders) around HILLY (anag: rough) | |
| * Foot divisions sent up special gun (6) | CLOOTS | C |
TOOLC (gun; rev: sent up)+Special | |
| * Briefly ban research incorporating poisons (8) | FLYBANES | R |
brieFLY BAN RESesearch (hidden: incorporating) | |
| * Wrongly assert diplomacy supporting single female European (8) | MISSTATE | C |
MISS (single female)+TACT (diplomacy)+European | |
| * Scandinavian swapping halves to protect capital of Viking state (6) | NEVADA | A |
DANE (NE swaps with DA) around VA[iking] (capital of) | |
| * List fantastic elegance of poetic lines (7) | STICHIC | L |
LIST (anag: fantastic)+CHIC (elegance) | |
| * Island song flowery (6) | LILIED | L |
LIsland+LIED (song) | |
| * Agitator joins section moving up (6) | FUSSER | R |
FUSESR (joins) Section moving higher | |
| * I would be aboard to relax privately (5) | ASIDE | E |
EASE (relax) around I‘D (I would) | |
| * Olive’s family son dropping ace wins all the tricks (5) | VOLES | V |
VOLE[a] (olive’s family; minus A)+Son | |
| * Best rocky lumps (4) | PLUM | S |
LUMPS (anag: rocky) | |
| * Even bits of demonic cry heard in Bacchic frenzy (4) | EUOI | U |
[d]EU[m]O[n]I[c] (even letters) | |
The endgame felt to me like an exercise in mind-reading and I gave up
I’m pretty sure we should draw two 6×4 rectangles comprising most of the middle 4 rows (not the first column nor the last) with the INTERSECTION being the silver cells containing the eponym showing up again but being removed from his other two occurrences.
More later …
With some help from a friend, I landed on the following endgame:
– Move both VENNs to the middle (the same way up as initially), creating empty spaces though with real words remaining.
– Draw two symmetric rectangles each including the central VENN plus 5 columns either side, thus creating a Venn diagram
– This creates two overlapping rectangles (rather than circles) with the letters VENN in the middle (overlap) box, as these letters occurred in both rectangles, but entirely separate groups of letters in the non-overlapping boxes
–
This was an excellent and quite challenging puzzle. Filling the grid was a challenge in itself, not because the grid was blank but because there were those two types of clue to contend with.
I found SYMMETRICAL before ENDEAVOUR, but with both of them I found the quote by John Venn. Only then did I see his name twice in the grid.
My solution was exactly like HG’s and Arnold’s. It took me a while to work it out, and the different ‘appearance’ of the sets of capital letters to the right and to the left of the shaded rectangle helped me to get there. It should not matter in what order the letters V-E-N-N are entered in the intersection -they are the only letters common to both rectangles in the initial completed grid.
Thanks to Vismut and kenmac.
I suppose the presence of bars would have marred the elegance of the final design. But I checked out after filling grid (much enjoyed), with the interspersed anagram too much for me (but I was reading it backwards or upwards, for a reason I don’t recall, and consequently never saw ‘symmetrically’). I also thought the interspersed anagram would start on top row and finish on bottom… thanks to Vismut and kenmac.
We managed eventually to fill the grid, with a fair amount of difficulty, largely due to some of the unclued extra letters being in unchecked cells. We realised from ‘diagram’ in the circled cells that VENN was the theme, and then noticed the two Venns (but not that they were in ‘our’ columns b & j – thanks Ken!). We then found the quote confirming ‘symmetrical’ and ‘endeavour’, but we searched in vain for the latter in the rows – the random disposition, missing a couple of rows, had us fooled.
We realised that VENN had to entered in the middle cells, and that removing the two occurrences of the word would leave real words, but we could not figure out where to draw the two rectangles to create the diagram, which we understood needed to be symmetrical – it seemed to us that there were several ways of doing this, but no indications as to which one might be the one Vismut had in mind. We assume that Arnold@3 and AlanB@4 are correct – congrats to them!
Unfortunately, an unsatisfactory conclusion for us, but an interesting concept for the puzzle.
Thanks to Vismut and to kenmac for the blog – looks as though you had the same problem as us with the rectangles!
Another DNF recorded by me this week, as three clues (those for LIKELY MON & UNDO) left me totally stumped – I successfully guessed all three answers but was unable to parse any of them. As for the end game, well that bit completely passed me by, I assumed it would mean drawing a Venn diagram with rectangles, but sadly couldn’t complete the required task. Nevertheless, some nice challenging clues.
I’m happy enough that I resolved the end game modulo the ordering of the letters V-E-N-N. I was distracted for a while by the appearance of “DALI” in my partially filled grid and, according to Google, the existence of DALI diagrams. But I’ll take the W!
Thanks to kenmac and Vismut.
That’s it??? I spent so long trying to find an endgame that would “demonstrate the theme in accordance with the concepts of the quote”! I failed, did what most of the commenters here did (moved Venn to the middle, right way up, drew 2 rectangles with Venn the intersection) – and now I seem to be being told that that somehow is the solution?
I can’t quite believe it. I was sure the 2 symmetrical figures (HABA etc reflected on a diagonal on the left and the rotational symmetry of the SSs and ITs on the right) must be part of the answer. The concepts in the quote are symmetry, elegance, aid to reasoning and sense of sight. I wouldn’t say I’ve found a solution “in accordance with” them, even after coming here.
I think we’re all missing something.
Herb @9
I take your point, but, even as one who understands Venn diagrams (what they do, and how and why), I thought finding the rectangular regions that would illustrate a basic Venn diagram with two sets and one intersection was not a trivial task in this puzzle – but a reasonable one to make an interesting endgame. For some solvers not familiar with Venn diagrams, it was obvious that it could be more difficult (at first) to construct one. We had symmetry – and elegance too, I think.
As an aside, I think this might be the hardest Inquisitor I have ever attempted (in 3 or so years, perhaps on par with Pooh’s HOLE), what with the blank grid, two different letter removal mechanics, the jumbled answer and the non-trivial endgame.
Took an early bath on this.
Thanks for the blog
There are two rectangles where a Venn diagram would work … they enclose all of the letters from rows 5 to 8 from columns b to g (a block of 24 cells ) and one from rows 5 to 8 from columns g to l (another block of 24). Venn is common to both, so that should be removed form both and written in (what i now the greyed out intersection). All letters in the left hand area are not in the right, and vice versa, the intersection is common to both. Not sure if that is correct, but it seems to work.
Me_Sat… @13
I’m sure what you describe must be the correct solution, as set out by HolyGhost (above) and echoed by Arnold and myself.
Mshah @13: I think that what you describe is exactly the same as what was proposed by me, Arnold & Alan B @2, 3 & 4 in our various ways. They are the only two symmetrically placed rectangles that do the job.
Bertandjoyce @6: all of the unclued letters are in unchecked cells.
My problem in finding ENDEAVOUR row-by-row in the grid was that it took a nudge before I realised that it wasn’t just the fact that, for example, an E had not been clued in “taken” (in which case any E in the grid would do) but it was specifically the E in the grid entry “takEn” that was the one to go for.
Apart from that, and unlike others, I didn’t find this puzzle so much harder than the average Inquisitor.
Thanks Ken & Vismut for blog & said workout.
Alan B & me @14 & 15: we must have been typing at the same time …
Yep I think you’ve arrived at the correct solution. I had no idea that a Venn diagram could cause so much confusion. I suppose I could have made the preamble a bit longer 🙂 .
Many thanks to Kenmac for the blog and for all the feedback from everyone else. It’s always helpful one way or another.
HolyGhost @15: no, not all unclued letters are unchecked. For instance, S in SHOUTING MATCH, and Y in LIKELY.
There’s nothing very surprising about being able to trace ENDEAVOUR from top to bottom. In fact you can also trace it from bottom to top, from left to right, and from right to left. And I don’t see anything special about the positions of the relevant letters. Vismut, have we missed something?
Tony G @18 & @19: quite right about the unchecked bit.
I was thinking only about the unclued letters that produce ENDEAVOUR – takEn, aNa, leaDy, tiEs, abA, Voles, sOu, eUoi, fusseR – and in the grid those can be read only from top to bottom (and unsurprisingly are unchecked).
https://www.comedy.co.uk/people/news/7377/viggo-venn-wins-britains-got-talent/
Another Venn to cheer you up 🙂