Guardian 29,150 – Vlad

80 comments on “Guardian 29,150 – Vlad”

1. Thanks, Vlad and Andrew!
   Liked AFFAIR (A FFair deal? Hands off!),
   PSALMIST (A life line early in the game. I don’t believe that my fate is in my hand!),
   LOW COMEDY (LOO held me up a wee bit. Went well eventually),
   ROMANTICS (OMG! Caught praying? God theory questioned by our creator?) and
   OUNCE (for good measure! The storyline: What a pounding!).

2. Feeling of satisfaction having completed this, despite the new words for me. Thought it was a first rate puzzle.
   Thanks Vlad and Andrew

3. Too hard for me and 24a especially so. When I only had the final letter, thought I’d cracked 19d as IMPALE, that being what one historical Vlad used to do to his enemies with I’M and PALE (as in pale ale) as fodder…

4. Stiff indeed. Thought that this would be a DNF until sudden enlightenment gave me SATORI. But could not parse it, nor PRINCETON, SUPINELY or ELNINO. NHO BIREME. Favourites were ADULTERY (a good surface for traditional Arsenal teams but not the current one), RAITA, WAR BRIDE, PSALMIST, FRANC and OUNCE. Thanks for the great blog Andrew and thanks Vlad for an enjoyable challenge.

5. Good fun and a worthy challenge. Thanks to setter and blogger.

6. I’m not sure what “love cheat” means in 23a; I would have thought that a RAT was any kind of cheat; for example a criminal who rats on his accomplices. Thanks for explaining ROMANTICS, although I did get it from the crossers. I liked EL NINO, but SIX OF THE BEST brought back painful memories

7. Paul @4 bireme is rarely seen but if you know a trireme has three tiers of oars you can work it out. I’ve also seen quinquereme used, but as far as I know there were never any quadremes.

8. Gregfromoz@6. I think the use of “Love” helps the surface when combined with “bit on the side”

9. I too, liked OUNCE and ADULTERY. I had forgotten about Other Ranks, even though it’s a crossword staple, so ROMANTICS was a mystery to me. Thanks to Vlad for the challenge and Andrew for the explanation.

10. Howard @7 I just had a look at Wikipedia and it just goes to show you shouldn’t make assumptions. It seems that interpretation of the naming system is in doubt, and possibly refers to the number of rowers per oar, so a quinquereme might have two tiers of oars with three oarsmen per oar on one level and two per oar on the other, for example. And quadriremes did exist but not quadremes.

11. I really enjoyed this; a stiff challenge and I was beaten by SUPINELY but it was really good to be put through the paces by Vlad. He is very good at finding tight, sometimes very tight, clues for tricky words. Loads of favourites but, to pick a few really worthy of mention, (big) podium includes WAR BRIDE, PSALMIST, SIX OF THE BEST, LOW COMEDY, REALTY, BIRTHDAY SUIT (what a spot), ADULTERY and BIREME. And wasn’t ‘prayer’ lovely?

    Thanks Vlad and Andrew

12. 13a – where does DOCTOR fit into the clue?

13. Steffen@12
    ‘Doctor’ is the anagram indicator.

14. PRINCETON
    Doctor RTNCI OPEN

15. Ravenrider@7 you may have seen it in Masefield’s poem:

    ‘Cargoes’

    Quinquireme of Nineveh from distant Ophir,
    Rowing home to haven in sunny Palestine,
    With a cargo of ivory,
    And apes and peacocks,
    Sandalwood, cedarwood, and sweet white wine.

    Thank Andrew for several needed explanations; and to Vlad, whom I almost conquered today.

16. Too tough for me, gave up after 60% completion. Super crossword though.

    Ta Vlad & well done Andrew for cracking this.

17. ‘A stiff challenge’ indeed: for me, it was 13ac PRINCETON and 24ac EL NINO that took longest to parse.

    I’m totally with PostMark @11 and I’m happy to go along with his pick of the best – just adding one more that made me laugh: 20dn SATYRS.

    I remembered SATORI as the name of a multi-talented and popular FT setter – Taupi in the Guardian – and was amazed to be reminded of how long ago he died. Here’s John Henderson’s Guardian obituary: https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2009/aug/18/albie-fiore-obituary

    [Nice, too, to be reminded, by Ravenrider and Dave Ellison, of John Mason’s evocative ‘Cargoes’, learned at primary school]

    Many thanks to both Vlad and Andrew (with two name-checks!) for a great start to the day.

18. 24a – NIN?

19. I only knew REDWINGS as the legendary work boots immortalised by Tom Waits in Mr Seigal

    Hints of a theme with brides, affairs, adultery, satyrs, and prince andrew?

    Top quality crossword

    Cheers V&A

20. Steffen @18
    [Anaïs] NIN, as in the blog: female writer – see here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ana%C3%AFs_Nin

21. 8d – where does (R)ITE come from?

22. Steffen: a RITE is a ceremony, and the R[ight] is removed.

23. Splendid puzzle from Vlad, nicely knotty. Many clever clues with cryptic definitions and excellent surfaces: ADULTERY is masterful. (BTW three football references in one puzzle do not make a theme!).

    Favourites as for PostMark @11. LOI for me was SATORI – there seemed to be possible envelope indicators and I saw a space for AT – then I saw it was a hidden word, with a great D’oh!

    Many thanks to Jim and Andrew

24. Thanks @14,@ 20, @22

25. A super puzzle that took me quite a long time to finish (almost: I left SATORI, not knowing that Buddhist term). I particularly liked OUNCE, BIRTHDAY SUIT and ADULTERY.

    Thanks Vlad and Andrew.

26. Very tough puzzle. Failed to solve 14ac – I never heard of this saying meaning ‘a beating, usually of six hits with a stick’. Sounds vile!

    Also new for me: SATORI; Liverpool REDS (for 17d).

    Favourites: ADULTERY, ROMANTICS, WAPITI.

    I could not parse:
    13ac but suspected it was an anagram
    23ac
    the ELO of 24ac

    Thanks, both.

27. Got only about half way through this, with several question marks about the parsing of some I had tentatively inserted. So rather feebly gave up and came on here to discover WAR BRIDE was indeed the solution to 1ac. Very glad, Vlad, that I gave up on you so prematurely this morning…had AFFAIR in, but had no idea of why it should be so. Sorry, (DISAPPOINTED – did like that one) other pressing things to do today…

28. …but SATYRS did make me smile, remembering that it was always postcards of these green creatures with large size erections that I liked to send to unsuspecting elderly relatives when on holiday in Greece many moons ago…

29. As Gervase says, “nicely knotty”. All came together nicely though – only the parsing of AFFAIR eluded me at the end, for which I am now kicking myself. DISAPPOINTED and PSALMIST were the standouts for me. Thanks, Vlad and Andrew.

30. DNF (defeated by the now obvious SATORI) but very good all the same, despite the customary confusion between N and Ñ, which never fails to irritate me.

31. Very good and pretty hard. Liked PSALMIST, APOSTLES, SUPINELY among others. SATORI a new word for me. Didn’t parse OUNCE – had forgotten that it was abbreviated to oz in pre-metric days (and you often still see the old weights in some fresh food shops and market stalls.)
    michelle@26 – until lateish in the 20th century, very many stories intended to be read by boys were set in boarding schools and often featured the threat, and sometimes application, of “six of the best” for misbehaviour; so most UK males of a certain age will know the phrase.
    Thanks Vlad and Andrew.

32. Thanks for the blog, my favourite puzzle for a long time, clever and precise wordplay throughout, I liked the “reading lines” for PSALMIST and the “pray-er” for ROMANTICS but nearly every clue was interesting . I agree with MrPostMark @ 11 , the anagram for BIRTHDAY SUIT is a great spot, Three things should always be done naked, swimming and sleeping.
    SATORI is a new word to learn , I was glad it was a hidden clue.

33. [Roz @32 and streaking at cricket matches]

34. Probably my quickest Vlad solve, despite having no across solutions on first read through. WAPITI making an appearance in crosswordland (its home from home) gave me a start and, unusually for me, I subsequently never really got stuck until the uncharacteristically resistant SUPINELY right at the end.

    No particular favourites, but many satisfying moments added up to an enjoyable solve.

    Thanks to Vlad and Andrew.

35. Roz @32
    ‘Hiddens’ obviously tend to be one of the easiest devices for a solver to meet, but they are my Achilles heel, no matter how well or how weakly they are disguised! My only problem (or excuse) here is that I did not know the word. (When I tackle weekday crosswords I prefer not to use any references, whether printed or online.)

36. A chewy puzzle but a very satisfying solve. Held up longest by BIREME (arrived at eventually, like Eileen@17, via a primary school memory of Masefield’s quinquereme) and LOI SUPINELY. Favourites BIRTHDAY SUIT, SIX OF THE BEST and PRINCETON, although PSALMIST and SATYRS gave me a chuckle. Thanks to Vlad and Andrew.

37. Very enjoyable, thanks both.

    Could someone kindly explain RAT as love cheat please? Is this a literary reference?

38. Thanks both,
    William @37. ‘Love rat’ is a common phrase for a love cheat in UK. It’s brevity makes it popular for headlines in the red tops.

39. W@37 Banksy can help with this

    Prices start at just £18,000 for a print – don’t all rush at once

40. This was tough, took 2 sittings. ADULTERY was very clever.

    As well as three football references (four if you include the clue for TROUNCE), we had: ADULTERY, AFFAIR, love cheat, a bit on the side. Do two half-themes count as a full one?

41. Bodycheetah @33 I think that sleeping covers cricket quite adequately, no need for anything else.
    Alan @35 I only check for hidden when I have tried other types of wordplay, certain trigger words, such as houses , crop up a lot. I did not put SATORI in until I had looked at all the Downs and put some in. It usually only need one letter to be sure.
    Azed usually has a couple of hidden clues which can be useful for getting started.

42. I see I am in a small minority, possibly a minority of one, in not enjoying this much despite eventually finishing all but 27A, which I still don’t understand even with the blog’s explanation. A tinker is an itinerant mender of metal utensils, so I don’t see how that comes from potter, not to mention Potter. And “on board” seems to be doing a lot of work to indicate “put tinker in betweeen the abbreviation for steamship”.

    I also found some of the cluing a bit loose for my taste, e.g. “female writer” for NIN could have been a bit more specific.

    NHO of WAPITI, SATORI, or BIREME, although the latter is fairly obvious in hindsight and the anagram indicator was clear.

    The only clue that I genuinely enjoyed was 7D.

    I guess I was just not on Vlad’s wavelength.

43. Dr. Whatson @40 – you could arguably throw Anais NIN in that list, a writer who is almost as famous for her numerous affairs (and at one point, bigamy) as for her writing.

44. Jacob @42, I guess ‘potter’ and ‘tinker’ as verbs can be synonymous.

    24a could have seen ELO welcoming Nine Inch Nails (NIN) – an intriguing musical partnership for sure.

45. Tingewick @38: is it, indeed? Fair enough, never heard it personally. Many thanks.

46. bodycheetah @39: Wow. If I could afford it… where could I hang it!? Thanks for the link.

47. Jacob@42 Tinker and Potter have a lot of overlap in Chambers as verbs, see Titus @44.
    I think the SS is carrying the tinker so on board seems okay to me.
    I do agree wih you about the fake capital P , this idea seems to be accepted by setters and solvers but the fake non-capital is thought of as wrong. I do not like either.
    WAPITI does turn up fairly often , deer etc and their cousins seem to fill awkward areas of the grid.

48. Thanks Vlad and Andrew
    I found this very hard and, with Jacob above, not a lot of fun. First pass only yielded BIREME (interested to see the discussion of this), then worked slowly up from the bottom, with several entered from definition only. However it was nice to see that occasional crossword animal, the WAPITI, appear again!

49. Jacob @42. “On board” is a common device for putting something between two S’s

50. Blimey! Took me three separate goes during the day. Great challenge, though!
    Thanks to Vlad and to Andrew for the much-needed explanations.

51. As an experienced solver, I didn’t find this very tough. The only semi-obscure words are satori and wapati, otherwise it’s all just the usual cryptic t tricks. I did like stinkers, where I didn’t start trying verbs until I had all the crossers.

52. Hippity hoppity
    Here come the wapiti.
    Ogden Nash
    (In case you didn’t know how to pronounce it, which I didn’t till I met this rhyme.)

    Never heard of ELO or the Reds in Liverpool.

    I’ve never quite known what REALTY meant (it means the same as real
    estate, which is why I’ve never needed to use it). So I looked it up, and found it’s been in the English language since 1660. I suppose it came over here and then fell out of use back home.

    It’s embarrassing that I missed OZ = OUNCE. Here in the US we still use pounds, shillings and ounces, because of the bounces. Well, maybe not the shillings.

    Thanks, Vlad and Andrew

53. [Valentine @52 – Tigger?]

54. Very nice. A couple of JORUMs, clearly clued, and I had to reverse-engineer PRINCETON, having guessed the uni from the crossers rather than deciphered the parsing.
    Thanks to Vlad and Andrew.

55. This was good Vlad at his impaling best!

    Couldn’t parse EL NIÑO but once I got the E the definition made it obvious (I only wish it weren’t! 🙁 ). Both ELO and NIN are way beyond my grasp of GK, but no matter, these things happen in crosswordland!

    Does anyone want to query the obligatory diacritic over the Ñ one way, but the plain N the other way? I know this happens often enough, but I see it as a mild blemish in an otherwise excellent puzzle.

    I suppose SIX OF THE BEST was worth a good laugh, especially for those of my generation! I’m happy to report that in my schooldays, it didn’t happen – the headmaster had directed that four strokes was the maximum. I got caned twice, but only one stroke on each occasion. But it still bloody well hurt! No wonder that scene in the movie IF… is harrowing!

    The other big laugh of course was BIRTHDAY SUIT. I remember holidays in the west of France, being startled by totally unclad men (and the occasional woman) walking about on the beach. Vlad’s right, it wouldn’t be wise in Dubai, I guess. An excellent &lit.

    Thanks to Vlad and Andrew.

56. Laccaria @55
    It would be a bit restricting (and also a bit difficult to typeset) if diacritical marks were required in crosswords.

57. Can someone please explain! A clue indicating “that category to which x belongs” has an indicator…

    — “say” for an example of that category to which David belongs
    — “possibly” for an example of that category to which Man City belongs
    — “among others” for an example of that category to which Philip & Andrew belong

    … but there is no indicator for “a specific example of a larger category”

    — “university” as the category of which Princeton is an example
    — “see” as the category to which Ely is an example
    — “female writer” as the category to which Nin is an example

    For the latter, what is the distinction between being instructed to look for an example instead of a synonym? Why is it understood that the first needs an indicator and the second does not?

58. AT @ 57 I’ll have a go, but will probably gt it the wrong way round

    It depends on the relationship between definition and solution

    If solution is a subset of definition, it’s a definition by example, so needs an indicator

    If definition is a subset of solution, no indicator is necessary

    (Finds tin hat, starts to dig trench)

59. Andrew@57

    This is a topic which I think has been much discussed before – but you are right, it can be confusing.

    Your first three are instances of ‘definition-by-example’ (DBE) – the example is in the clue, and the category is in the solution. David is an example of a PSALMIST (presumably there were others). Ximenean rules (to which not all Grauniad setters adhere) stipulate that you need a DBE indicator in such clues. Often a question mark will suffice.

    Your last three are the other way around: clues where the example is in the solution, while the category is in the clue. PRINCETON is an example of a university, there are obviously many others. The rules say that such clues do not need any indicator.

    Yes it may be illogical – but that’s the way setters do it. Hope this explains things for you.

60. I found that quite the challenge overall – one single solution (APOSTLES) on first pass, steady chipping away for a while, two breaks during the day and one final evening session to complete the NW corner (by far the trickiest section). Defeated by WAPATI, needed a wordfinder app but will now add to my Attempt to Remember list.

    I was annoyingly misled by the ‘Man City’ in the clue for FRANC – given that it could have been one of a number of clubs to clue ‘F_C’, the choice of the short form ‘Man’ over ‘Manchester’ had me trying to do something with ‘managed man’ and ‘city’…!

    Liked OUNCE, APOSTLES, YES-MEN, SIX OF THE BEST and BIRTHDAY SUIT.

    Thanks both.

61. Simon S @58 and Laccaria @59. Thank you for confirming my impression that the former requires an indicator and the latter does not. Perhaps the reason why example-from-definition needs no indicator, whereas definition-by-example does, is that DBEs can be indicated axiomatically and easily — for instance, say, possibly, perhaps (or just ? as Simon points out). Maybe there is no easy or axiomatic way to differentiate an indicator of example-from-definition from an indicator for a synonym, so setters just do not feel compelled to try.

    It’s ironic — isn’t it? — that my frustration with example-from-definition should be followed by Rob T @60, complaining about the Man City definition-by-example. Takes all sorts.

62. …Laccaria pointed out the question mark, not Simon S

63. First class! no extra charge

64. Thanks to Andrew for the blog and to others who commented.

    Andrew Tyndall @57: that’s a very good question. I certainly couldn’t better the explanation given though I guess there are grey areas. Would Humperdinck (singer or composer) need to be clued as ‘Engelbert, for example’, to distinguish him from all the other famous Humperdincks (or is it the other way round?).

65. ravenrider@10
    Thank you for that. On the rare occasions it has crossed my mind I’ve wondered how those on the top tier of a quinqereme managed the extremely long oars that they would need.

66. Seems YRS for yours was only new to me. Where does that come from..a text thing?
    Probably seen WAPITA before as I guessed it. I got nowhere at first try then ran through it later.
    Thanks Vulcan and Andrew

67. Thanks to Vlad for joining in the discussion. “Would Humperdinck (singer or composer) need to be clued as ‘Engelbert, for example’, to distinguish him from all the other famous Humperdincks (or is it the other way round?)” The frequent use of this device by many setters suggests that this is not a DBE. ‘Engelbert’ is not an example of a ‘Humperdinck’ (nor the other way around). It is an allusion: something that makes you think of something else while not actually defining it. In order to be fair to solvers, both the first and the last name need to be reasonably well associated with each other, as Vlad’s example illustrates.

    Arguably, ‘David’ is such a famous PSALMIST as to exclude all others (as proof of this assertion: name me one without looking in the bible or online!), and therefore does not need an indication of DBE. In the right context, ‘David’ does=>PSALMIST. The setter who provides such an indicator is just being kind. 🙂 (‘David’=>KING, on the other hand, is clearly a DBE.)

    Going back to Andrew T@57: “female writer” as the category in which Nin is contained does not need an indicator: it simply defines a category and expects the solver to be able to choose an example that falls within it. Similarly ‘girl’ can lead to Ruth, or Anna or Nora, or ‘composer’ can require CHOPIN, BRAHMS or LISZT. Of course, some solvers complain that this is too loose, so the setter who gives us ‘Irish girl’, ‘Polish composer’ or ‘female writer’ is being precise, or helpful. Just ‘writer’, in the clue for EL NINO, could in theory have clued NIB or BIC, which (in combination with the Electric Light Orchestra) would, of course, produce gibberish.

68. muffin@53 Said of Tigger, by Pooh, “Whatever he weighs in pounds, shillings and ounces, He always seems bigger because of his bounces.” Pooh adds that he didn’t feel quite sure about the shillings, but they wanted to come in, so he let them.

    I’d just like to see something clued as “male writer.” Fat chance.

69. Ravenrider @7 thank you. NHO of any of them, but it is easier to remember as part of the whole than as a random word. Interesting stuff.

70. Sheffield Hatter @67: if I follow your argument correctly, you assert that 1) an allusion or 2) a synonym or 3) an example falling within a category does not need an indicator…but nevertheless a definition by example does need one. I understand that this is the accepted practice in crosswordland. My question was: why?

71. sheffield hatter @67… (as proof of this assertion: name me one without looking in the bible or online!)…. the Sons of Korah sprang immediately to mind (sans bible or t’internet), but then I quite like the (modern Aussie) band’s music (named after them).

72. All one has to do is to insert the indefinite article as an indicator: “a” university is PRINCETON; “a” see is ELY; “a” female writer is NIN. Yet the convention allows the indefinite article to be suppressed on those occasions when the clue is looking for an example within a category. Why?

73. Thanks Andrew for confirming that nothing else was going on with WAR BRIDE, a new term for me, arrived at once WAPITI (familiar from my son’s early alphabet books, it must be used in French) became clear. Enjoyed the discussion on d-by-e which took me a long time to get my head around when starting out. I think Run DMC and Jason Nevins have the best explanation for these conventions. Thanks Vlad for another tough but great puzzle, thumbs up in particular for the humble (?) BIREME.

74. Andrew@72. Why? Because there has to be room for a bit of trickery – it’s supposed to be a cryptic puzzle, after all! If there was a convention of always including an indefinite article before the definition in this situation the setter would not be able to use ‘see’ as a verb (as in 25a) because it would always have to be ‘a see’.

75. Gazzh @73 – bravo for the Run DMC reference! Made me chuckle 🙂

76. Gazzh @73 – me too 🙂 – after Google reminded me of the song title.

77. DRESSING-DOWN
    I remember a Vic & Bob routine where Vic intended to give Bob a DRESSING?DOWN but Bob thought he was in line for a new DRESSING-GOWN.
    Much hilarity ensued. Such fun. “You wouldn’t let it lie”. “I would’ve let it lie.”

78. I forgot to replace one of those unbreakable hyphens with a normal one. Don’t you just hate it when that happens?

79. Tituscarus @44 You are correct, that makes much more sense. I was (mis)reading them as nouns.

80. Roz @47 I shall try to remember WAPITI for the future, although it does seem one of the less accessible devices for newcomers.

    Crispy @49 I shall also try to remember that. “On board ship” I would have gotten, but perhaps that is more Quiptic than Cryptic level cluing?

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