Guardian Cryptic 29,246 by Tramp

68 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 29,246 by Tramp”

1. Loved CUE BALL, SPIT and TRENDY for the subtle definitions

   Cheers T&L

2. 12a – I thought nick meant steal, not rob. Good puzzle, thanks both.

3. Thanks loonapick for damning with faint praise. I think it’s decent. What do I know?

4. How does the club come into 1d?

   A couple of things I couldn’t work out, but now I find that Collins describes them as “mainly British, informal”, namely “spit” for “spitting image” and rate/admire (22a).

   Didn’t think much of the clues for SET OFF or TRIP OUT, nor A for afternoon (24a).

   I enjoyed this overall, thanks Tramp & loonapick.

5. Gdu @4 in the club means pregnant

6. When the first one you manage to crack is 26 across, you think this might not be your day; but it all came together gratifyingly. Thank you to Tramp for a most enjoyable challenge.
   I’d suspected the answer to MORNING SICKNESS would involve some slang with which I wasn’t familiar; many thanks to loonapick for the explanation and for the blog in general.
   Geoff @4 – “in the club” = pregnant, alongside up the duff, in pod, etc. Slightly longer version “in the pudding club”.

7. Thank you Bodycheetah @ 5

8. And NeilH

9. Thanks loonapick and Tramp.

   I usally struggle to finish a Tramp, but not so today.

   I was delayed/fooled by several extended definitions: 26a, 1d where I was looking for complaint, and 5d, looking for hummer (bee?)

   Didn’t know enure (nor does my spell checker)

10. Did not have a clue until SPIT then MORNING SICKNESS came to the rescue and a whole lot came out. Hadn’t parsed the DIER or the Tin can… Very good.

11. I liked it, and thought I was in for an easier ride than normal with Tramp when my first one in was 1a, MOUNTAINTOP, but not much more went in across until SINGLE CREAM. MORNING SICKNESS went in quickly, which helped get the left hand side in first.

    Thank you to loonapick and Tramp.

12. Tricky but ultimately enjoyable. Liked the use of Hummer to indicate an American term.

13. BRIGADIER tapped into the memory banks today; I have not followed Doctor Who since I was a youngster but I saw the solution and the name Lethbridge-Stewart came straight to mind for the first time in 40+ years! I’d agree with bodycheetah’s nominations @1 and would add THEME PARKS to the list.

    I’m not sure why solvers would be put off by abbreviations – but then I enjoy using them as a tool, myself. When they are smoothly worked into the surfaces, as here, I find nothing to complain about. It’s the overuse of single letter indicators that tends to stand out more for me, when I encounter it.

    Thanks Tramp and loonapick

14. Tramp@3
    I think you may be being a little sensitive there – I said I was running late so would come back to it later – while writing the intro, none of the clues stuck in my mind. Having had a coffee and a shower. I can now revisit and say that the clues for MOUNTAINTOP, SPIT, MORNING SICKNESS and CUE BALL were worthy of ticks. As I commented in my intro, some of the clues were entertaining and a rereading of them confirmed that – examples would be BRIGADIER, UMBRA and TOY WITH.

15. I must be on form today as I solved the puzzle faster than usuallyI do with Tramp’s offerings. I enjoyed it very much and, in response to Tramp @3, it’s better than decent: however, don’t knock loonapick; he always gives an honest personal opinion and acknowledges that he will revisit the clues later.

16. Very enjoyable in the main, though with three examples of my favourite bugbear – phrasal verbs – where frequently more than one answer is possible. TRIP OUT (could easily be TIME OUT, but for the crosser) PASSES ON and SET OFF, each a gift to a setter, not so much the solver. But the rest, especially CUE BALL, THEME PARKS and TOY WITH, made up for these minor irritations. Thanks to both.

17. Roddy Mac @2 of course nick means steal not rob. Unfortunately, even though it defines rob as ‘steal from’, Chambers gives both steal and rob as separate definitions of nick. But it’s weird that setters would go right down the dictionary list to use something that appears to be a mistake.

18. I think what Tramp is superb at is disguising the definition word(s) and there are plenty of good examples today. Despite knowing this, I still take ages to spot them and I have bruises on my legs from the number of times I’ve had to kick myself when the penny drops. So thanks to Tramp for a good challenge and loonapick for the blog. (Don’t fall out chaps, this is one of the few decent places in the entire webiverse!)

19. Another midnight feast. Thought I would try and break the back of this, as I find Tramp tricky, but I kept going to completion. Certainly on the mild side. Liked MORNING SICKNESS, SPIT, CUE BALL, PHOTOGRAPH ALBUM and SINGLE CREAM. Couldn’t parse one as joke.

    Ta Tramp & loonapick

20. Tricky and enjoyable.

    Favourite: TAKES, PASSES ON.

    New for me: IN THE CLUB = pregnant (for 1d); SCRUBBY = messy; CUE BALL. Also A = army and afternoon but I guessed those.

    I could not parse: ONE in 22ac, 16d.

    Thanks, both.

21. Thank you James @17. I have often heard here in south Wales the likes of “Some swine’s robbed my fags” but assumed this was down to misuse.

22. Maybe, loonapick. I used to use single-letter indicators way too much until Mike Hutchinson pointed it out. I am more conscious of it now. Overuse of these makes clues very bitty. I’m not sure, on average, I use more abbreviations than most other setters. If I had the time, I’d do some data gathering.

    Neil

23. For ROB, Chambers has; plunder, deprive, carry off etc. which all seem synonymous with “nick”?

24. Thought this was an enjoyable steady solve which gave little trouble until ENURE, which was new to me and required a dictionary. Fairly clued, though. Thanks to Tramp and loonapick.

25. We’ve had this debate before. S1 Theft Act is basically to steal. S8 TA – Robbery is to steal with violence or the threat thereof. The net result is to nick in both types, so it seems fine to me.

26. You nick a bar of chocolate, but you can’t rob it. You rob a post office, but you can’t nick it.
    Still liked the puzzle though.

27. I, too, liked the disguised definitions for CUE BALL and PHOTOGRAPH ALBUM and enjoyed the puzzle as a whole.

28. Well clued puzzle with some nicely misleading definitions. I found the top half easier than the bottom half, but overall not as tricky as most Tramp offerings. I think there are fewer single letter inclusions and deletions than in some other recent crosswords – a judicious sprinkling in a good mix of clue types.

    My vote is for SPIT, SINGLE CREAM, FREESIA, PASSES ON, CUE BALL and TRENDY.

    I’m with bodycheetah, AlanC et al – ‘nick’ can refer to any type of misappropriation.

    Many thanks to Tramp (courage, mon brave 🙂 ) and loonapick

29. The one that tripped me up was UMBRA: having got the leading U from MOUNTAINTOP, it fixed itself in my mind as the “top off Underwear” and hid the true parsing so effectively that I ended up revealing it. I knew ENURE was a word, but not what it meant: never seen it in real life.

    Never mind. The rest was fun, though by=before had me puzzled. Liked the CUE BALL, PHOTOGRAPH ALBUM, THEME PARKS and SPINAL CORD.

30. Very enjoyable puzzle, solid clues and some good misdirection – 6 and 17 down for example. Thanks Tramp and Loonapick

31. I understand the objection that in formal speech ‘rob’ means ‘steal FROM’, but ‘nick’ takes us into slang territory, where such niceties no longer apply.

32. Tramp got me into cryptic puzzles. What I like about them is that it takes ages to get the first answer and you think it’s going to be impossible, but then slowly but surely it all falls into place and you’re left thinking ‘why was that so hard?’ Nothing abstruse or arcane (well, ok enure..)

33. I thought this was Tramp on top form.

    I liked the good anagram for MOUNTAINTOP to start with and the one for SINGLE CREAM, the one passing out in BRIGADIER, the humorous surface for UMBRA, and the wordplays in PHOTOGRAPH ALBUM and PASSES ON.

    Thanks Tramp and loonapick.

34. I’m with Robi @33.

    Until I saw the blog, I was taking by = before in 9ac as in, ‘Have this done by Friday’, then remembered that, being a bit of a procrastinator, I usually take this as including Friday. 😉

    Many thanks to Tramp and loonapick.

35. Eileen@34 Me too for by (and the procrastination), though I think if you make the time more precise, for example “I’ll get this done by 2 o’clock”, by is more like before.

36. Thanks, Petert!

37. I am not going to damn with faint praise
    Oim giving it foive!

38. Gervase @31, there’s no formality about it; rob means steal from in ordinary speech. Rob and steal are perfectly common words, one of which takes as its object the victim (eg person or bank), the other the thing stolen. It’s the ordinariness of that distinction that makes me say that there is the appearance of an error in the clue.
    Sure, nick is slang, but it’s slang for steal. As per RoddyMac’s example @21, apparently rob is also used in a slangy way for steal. But nick is not slang for rob in its ordinary sense. The clue requires you go from one slang term for steal to another more dubious slang term for steal. Maybe that’s fine, and maybe that’s what was meant. Interestingly, that equivalence does not have dictionary support, because rob is not defined as a slang term for steal (at least not in Chambers or Collins).

39. Definitely found this a tricky solve, particularly held up with the top half. But once I’d dubiously pencilled in TAILPIPE, then THEME PARKS, TOY WITH, BRIGADIER and finally USABLE fell like a pack of cards. Liked SPIT and SPINAL CORD, didn’t much care for BLUBBED. Reminded of that guitarist in U2 as I solved the EDGE

40. Have never heard “scrubby” used anywhere, in any context. Enjoyed it apart from that.

41. Well I was a million miles away from Tramp’s wavelength today. Managed most of the top half though like GDU @ 3 did not like TRIP OUT (or SET OFF and never seen A for afternoon). Found the bottom half very slow and ended up revealing some just to finish.

    I think the difficulty for me was trying to think up synonyms that would work and not really liking some of ones used here – and a lot of clues seemed to be of that type today. Anyway. (Don’t think I feel up to trying MONK in the FT.)

    Thanks Tramp and loonapick

42. James @38: It feels good to be out-pedanted for once 🙂

43. My biggest problem with this was the two completely unfamiliar usages in the definitions of 9a and 10a. OTOH, unlike my fellow antipodean GDU, I am quite familiar with the expression ‘in the club’, from the notorious sitcom ‘Are You Being Served?’ of all places.

44. Cueball was my favourite today. Failed to parse ‘one’ for joke but otherwise the clues made sense to me. Thanks loonapick and Tramp.

45. Hmmm. How does “Now” work as a definition of TRENDY?

46. Great fun and unusually gentle for Tramp. Getting the long answers certainly helped get a flying start.

    Loved all the disguise but special praise for SPINAL CORD and PASSES ON.

    Thanks Tramp and loonapick

47. pserve_p2 @ 45 – usually found in the horrid adjectival phrase ‘very now’, used by some trying to be TRENDY.

48. James @38 and Jess @26 – in the local dialect, and most of the MLE (multicultural London English) speakers I’ve encountered, rob/steal/nick are interchangeable, however formally incorrect they are. Did you nick/rob/steal that watch/chocolate? are equivalent questions, all referring to the five finger discount, or in some cases rather more violence (see the current documentary on watch gangs). Steal is more formal.

    Tim @40 – I use scrubby – to describe the scrubby beard growth of an adolescent or the scrubby growth in the rough areas near the motorway interchange, which have been left to grow wild.

49. I enjoyed the misdirection of “top off Underwear”. Favorite was 5D for the unusual use of Hummer. NHO of enure but the cluing was clear enough to write it in and look it up.

    Thank you loonapick and Tramp.

50. How does EDGE = “bite”?

    We don’t have single or double cream in the US, though I’ve seen “double cream brie” so I put it in on that model. Apparently SINGLE CREAM is equivalent to our light cream or half and half, I’m not sure which, and double cream is a bit fatter than our heavy or whipping cream. We sell both of those, and I can’t tell them apart.

    The CUE BALL is white, but why does “cue ball” mean “white”?

    Thanks, Tramp and loonapick.

51. Valentine@50 that usage is common in snooker. “He left the white on the cushion…” (for “white ball”)

52. Thanks both,
    ISTR that in The Full Monty the lead character confesses to ‘robbing pipes’ from a derelict factory. I conclude a) that ‘rob’ = ‘nick’ at least in Sheffield and b) that the usage struck me as unusual, because I have remembered it.

53. We rob and nick stuff in Kent, too. Chambers supports the usage, too.

54. I found this quite tough and had to come back to it a couple of times during the morning. Not sure about MORNING SICKNESS. Although I managed to get it (eventually) I think the slang (SICK) should perhaps have been indicated in some way…? Am not sure. I liked PHOTOGRAPH ALBUM and CUE BALL. With thanks to Tramp and loonapick.

55. That was fun! MOUNTAINTOP was a good start, and I enjoyed the USA in USABLE.

    Valentine @50 – Chambers Thesaurus lists ‘bite’ under the sense of ‘sharpness’ or ‘keenness’. “His comments had a bit of edge/bite to them”, for example.

    Thanks Tramp & loonapick.

56. Enjoyed this although 22ac one = joke, not something I have come across (excuse the pun) before?

57. Thanks for the blog, I found this a very sound puzzle with neat clues and a lot of variety . I liked the loaf in PHOTOGRAPH ALBUM and the simple white for CUE BALL .
    I think that rob has almost replaced nick as a slang word for steal , usually something petty.
    Who has robbed my pen/cup/biscuit…. ?
    MAC@43 TRIP OUT is used for electrical circuits, trip switches are more sensitive than fuses and easier to sort out.

58. I found myself on Tramp’s wavelength today, and after a hesitant start – with the exception of the obvious MOUNTAINTOP – gradually accelerated to a rapid conclusion. I enjoy the slightly different definitions that some have found obscure or complainable, such as ‘nick’ for ROB and ‘now’ for TRENDY. Yes, it can make for a tricky solve if you don’t get it, but satisfying when you do. I particularly enjoyed UMBRA and the economically terse EDGE, once I’d got the crossing G to point me in the right direction.

    Thanks to Tramp and loonapick.

59. As a Rob I’ve known all my life that many parts of the UK habitually use that word interchangeably with steal / nick, so that didn’t bother me at all.

    Good puzzle, thanks both.

60. manhattan @56 — do you know the phrase “Have you heard the one about…” used to introduce a joke? I’m not sure how widely that particular phrase has travelled.

61. Clearly I haven’t been consorting with the right kind of people- I should have been consorting more with the wrong kind of people

62. I’m always surprised and delighted to manage a Tramp in good time, so I expected the consensus would be this was at the easier end of his oeuvre. I thought this was all clear and fair, and suitably taxing for me, with CUE BALL being my favourite.

63. Well, that was fun, and only 2 cups of tea required (unusually for me with a Tramp). My lucky day, or perhaps the solver-friendly grid helped, once the long clues went in. Thanks, T & L

    [PM @13: Indeed, the Doctor Who Brigadier: “Chap with the wings. 5 rounds rapid”]

64. Good fun. I enjoyed lots of the surfaces. Faves were RHOMBIC, PROBE, EDGE and CUE BALL. The latter reminded me of losing to scholar’s mate while playing blitz chess (more than once, in case you ask ;( ).
    I thought I knew most abbreviations for crosswords, but I had to Google ISTR. Thanks, Tyngewick@52 😉 .
    Also, thanks to Tramp and loona.

65. Thanks Tramp and loonapick
    Mainly very good. Favourite was MOUNTAINTOP.
    I hadn’t heard SCRUBBY in that sense – to me it means an area that has been populated by small trees and shrubs.
    nho ENURE!
    I wondered about nick=rob too, and thought that 6d was a bit weak, as PHOTOGRAPH was used twice in the same sense.

66. Just checking in to see why one=joke. I’ve heard the expression but not sure they’re synonyms. I put these things down to the hazards of doing foreign crosswords. Who knew that rob, nick and steal weren’t synonyms? Thanks Tramp – always enjoy your puzzles and always grateful to loonapick for clear explanations.

67. I know what you mean, muffin, but “take” is a verb and “still” in the definition is a noun. I did share your thought when I wrote it but I thought the surface was misleading enough to justify it. I don’t think it’s weak.

68. Indeed, Tramp@67, the misdirection was sufficient to leave me failing to parse that one, so no complaints from me and thanks loonapick for unravelling it. Excellent challenging puzzle. I also fail to see why afternoon=a, possibly not for the first time, presumably Chambers approves but is it used by anyone anywhere? Maggie@66 i am not sure from your post if you saw it, but NickT@60 answered your query.

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