Financial Times 17,607 STEERPIKE

40 comments on “Financial Times 17,607 STEERPIKE”

1. Thanks Steerpike and Turbolegs!
   Enjoyed the puzzle and the blog.

   CASSANDRA
   I took ‘abandoned’ as you did.
   In the sense of deserted, it seems to be an instruction to remove the inner letters. Seen ‘deserted’
   used in this context by some setters.

   It will be good to know what others think.

2. Made brisker by the fact that this has already appeared! Thanks, anyway to Turbolegs for doing the honours.

3. Diane@2
   Oh! How long ago?

4. Within the past fortnight, I’m sure. Can’t remember whether it was online or printed though. As soon as I saw SIGN OF THE TIMES, I sensed a touch of deja vu. Sorry I can’t recall when it was published.

5. Thanks Diane. I don’t recall solving this.
   After reading your post I remember that one day there were two puzzles published. I solved one but left one for later. Maybe this is the one I didn’t solve.

   I can defend this version of mine if this puzzle wasn’t blogged earlier. ?

6. That ? Was meant to be a smiley.

7. Yes, KVa, I think that’s the occasion I meant. The other puzzle was, maybe, a Mudd?
   Glad you enjoyed it, anyway. I did too – the first time! I was just disappointed that I’d gone to the trouble of buying a paper in order to relish a puzzle over coffee. Fortunately, there is much else of interest to read!

8. It was 14 or 15 Dec – a Jason puzzle was the intended crossword and the app mistakenly published this Steerpike too

9. Thanks Martyn. I knew I wasn’t imagining it

10. Thanks Steerpike and Turbolegs. I do not have much to say about this one. I could not parse ADMIRAL or LOINS. so thanks for the steer. No clue took my fancy so no favourites.

11. Thanks for the blog,and thanks Martyn@8 , I have not seen this before, fortunately I do not even know what an APP is.
    I thought this had very neat clues throughout, I agree with the blog and KVa@1 for RussiA , a setter will often use evacuated.

12. It appeared on 15 December on the app but my paper version on the day was correct. I had some comments but can’t remember what they were.
    However, it was a fun puzzle and good blog. Thank you Steerpike and Turbolegs .

13. I do recall a repeated puzzle not so long ago – but this was new to me so no worries. A very nice set of constructions which only caused me concern when parsing PECKS. The homophone indicator in the middle had me thinking first of Softly = P and ECKS as a homophone for X for kiss! I think, on reflection, I’d have preferred ‘evacuated’ or ‘vacated’ in CASSANDRA; I feel ‘abandoned’ needs some reference to what is being abandoned whereas the others don’t.

    Thanks Steerpike and Turbolegs

14. On the use of “abandoned” as an indicator I agree with Postmark @13 that it doesn’t really work as intended in 17D where the intention is to delete all the internal letters. The meaning of the word which is presumably being invoked as a justication for doing so is “deserted”. Although “deserted” can mean “empty”, I don’t think that provides for “abandoned” to mean “empty”, as Chambers has “empty or abandoned” as the meaning of “deserted”. The Clue Clinic does list “abandoned” in its list of deletion indicators, but only in cases where what is to be deleted is specified. I look forward to reading Pelham’s views on this.

15. Chambers93 has abandoned=completely deserted so I think it is fair enough. Other terms may be better but this one does work.

16. Solved this last Friday, when, had it been blogged, I’d’ve remarked on the third POSSE in three days.
    https://www.fifteensquared.net/2023/12/13/financial-times-17599-by-basilisk/ “Officers have to abandon ship (5)”
    https://www.fifteensquared.net/2023/12/14/independent-11599-methuselah/ “Crew have to abandon second ship (5)” ‘“It’s like déjà vu all over again.”’
    At least this time the wordplay was different. The app had lost my solution, so I solved it all over again.

17. Roz@15 What Chambers said in 1993 is of interest but, in my view, superseded, as far as present-day crosswords are concerned, by what it says in its most recent edition (2014), which is what I quoted. Collins has the meaning of “abandoned” that supports “empty” in the sense of “unoccupied”, but the usage appears to be restricted to buildings etc, eg an abandoned warehouse.

18. The Chambers app (always current) has completely deserted as well. Personally, I have no issue with this but always interesting to see other people’s opinions.

19. 15d GABERDINE was a word I’d not seen nor worn since childhood
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabardine has GABARDINE as the material – ‘Its ability to shed water and break wind helped revolutionize outerwear.’
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaberdine has GABERDINE as the garment – ‘”A rough !rish mantle or horseman’s cloak, a long cassock”‘

20. Rudolf@17
    ‘abandoned (adjective)=completely deserted’ is there in my Chambers App (version 5.6, 13th edition).

21. Hovis@18
    Sorry. I didn’t see your post before posting mine.

22. A postscript to 17. I have just checked, and must correct what I said above. Chambers still says completely deserted – I had misremembered what I had seen earlier when commenting. That doesn’t, however, affect what I’ve said about the meaning of “deserted”. For the reasons I’ve given, I should not feel confident about using “abandoned” as an innards deleter in my own crosswords (which published under another name and blogged here, I should add) except in relation to a building.

23. The spellings appear to be interchangeable – Here’s Freddie and the Dreamers’ – Gabardine Mac(1968)
    Thanks S&T

24. Pamela @24: I thought of it in the context of the phrase ‘fruit of one’s loins’ which appears to be referencing ‘private parts’. But Chambers does the job properly with definition 3: (in pl) the genital area, esp (poetic) as a source of new life

25. I have only been attempting FT crosswords now and then for a short while and I think this is the first time I have seen one from Steerpike.

    I found the top half went in quite smoothly but then took a while to get going on the bottom half. Will look forward to the next one from this setter.

    Favourites included: HERALDS, DANDIFIED, INCURSION, CASSANDRA, MANGO

    Thanks Steerpike and Turbolegs

26. Thanks Steerpike and Turbolegs>

    15dn: Following the comments by Frankie, the single volume dictionaries (mentioned below) vary on which is to be considered the principal spelling, gabardine or gaberdine, but they are unanimous that either spelling can mean the material or the garment. In any case, Steerpike is to be commended for making the clue unambiguous.

    17dn: Interesting discussion on the use of “abandoned” as an indicator. Rudolf@14 has given the current Chambers definition of deserted which is the main reason I feel uncomfortable about going through deserted to make abandoned mean “empty”. I have tried to find a clear instruction at the beginning of Collins 2023 as to the status of the example an abandoned warehouse. I think it is what they mean by “typical use”, so I would not take it as restricting the meaning to buildings. In any case, I cannot find support in Collins for the notion that to abandon a building is to leave it empty: rather it suggests going away from the building without necessarily removing the contents. I think ODE 2010 does the job for us in that gives the verb abandon as meaning “leave (a place or vehicle) empty or uninhabited, without intending to return”. I think this meaning can reasonably be extended to use on words in a crossword clue. Most importantly, it appears to be acceptable to the FT crossword editor, and, ultimately, who are we to go against that?

    Finally, I have a complaint at an extreme level of seriousness. We seem to have gone through a whole week of daily puzzles without any use of rhyming slang, and I am feeling withdrawal symptoms. I need something to get my Hampsteads into.

27. Thanks, Pelham. Would you say an “abandoned rabbit” would be an acceptable indication for RT?

28. A week is a long time in crossword land… so much water has passed under the 15×15 bridge! I must admit I didn’t think to question abandoned in this context. An abandoned ship is empty of people at least. I feel it’s just another example of how setters use language to confuse me, as occurs with anagram indicators on a regular basis. I seem to remember this puzzle was about right for me at the time…
    Thanks Steerpike n Turbolegs

29. Rudolf@29: Well I would note use it myself (see note), but I would not feel unduly aggrieved if someone else did.

    Note: It is (I think) nearly thirty years since I last entered an Azed clue writing competition, but resuming my attempts in that sort of arena would be the most likely way of me actually writing clues for scrutiny in the foreseeable future.

30. .. I meant “not use it myself”.

31. And I’d not give it a butcher’s

32. Enjoyed this one, where I found the top half flew in and the bottom half was a little trickier. Held up by Rhode Island red, Admiral and, laughably, mango.
    Dandified was my LOI.

33. Merry Christmas one and all!

34. Thanks Steerpike for an excellent crossword and the holiday wishes. I had many favourites including 1a, ECHELON, ADMIRAL, NASAL, SEMINAR, HALTED, LOINS (gird your loins comes to mind), and CASSANDRA. Regarding CASSANDRA I had no problem with “abandoned” as a deletion indicator but I prefer “deserted” and the latter certainly lends itself to a good surface reading. [I also enjoyed the detailed discussion of this by the setters on this thread.] Thanks Turbolegs for the blog.

35. Thanks Steerpike and Turbolegs!

    I found this tough but got through most of it which was highly satisfying and a nice start to the Christmas weekend.

36. Very enjoyable. Many thanks both.

37. I find Steerpike’s puzzles about the right level of difficulty for me and this one was so good I solved it twice. I still can’t quite get the parsing of FIRESIDES though. Why does ‘detailed’ mean missing the last letter and does the ‘to suppress’ mean sitting on top of S?

    Thanks and Merry Christmas to all.

38. Newbie@39. Detailed is one of those slightly cheeky conventions in crossword land, where you have to read it as de-tailed (with it’s tail or last letter removed). It’s like dis-contented (with it’s content removed) in 6 down. For down clues, when letters are on top of other letters, setters often use a word like ‘crushing’ ‘depressing’ or ‘suppressing’ to indicate this. Hope this is of help and glad to hear you enjoyed the crossword.

39. We’ll have to be on the look out for “abandon(ed) ship” to clue “SP” and “desert(ed) island” to clue “iD”.
    And even “abandoned rabbit” to clue “TK” (or “PK”) and “abandoned butcher’s” to clue “LK” (or “HK”) – if Cockney Rhyming Slang is involved.

40. Frankie@41: Interesting further point in your final sentence, but possibly the rhyming slang is a bit of a red herring. Taking examples from the clue to 16ac, would we be happy with “abandoned block” for CK, or “abandoned challenge” for DE?

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