Independent 11,665 by Coot

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This was an entertaining puzzle with some great clues.

I was particularly impressed by 10 across. A couple of the others left me a bit puzzled and 28 maybe relied a bit too much on people knowing French. The “dark” and “light” at the top and bottom of the puzzle might indicate some soft of theme but I can’t see exactly what it is.

ACROSS
1 IN THE DARK
Editing ad, rethink location of hopeless shot? (2,3,4)

(Ad rethink)*
6 FIELD
Area of France that’s near Luxembourg and Germany (5)

F{rance} + i.e.(=that's) + L{uxembourg} + D{eutschland}
9 CHAMP
50% off sparkling wines – that’s a winner! (5)

Champ[agnes]
10 MT RAINIER
It’s cold west of Montana, wetter east of Montana (2,7)

Rainier(=wetter) on the right/east side of MT (which is the state postal abbrev for Montana). The other def refers to Mount Rainier, the highest peak in Washington, a state which lies to the west of Montana.

11 LOVERS
Fans of one-day cricket format? (6)

Somewhat dubious rendering of L overs for 50 Overs, a form of one-day cricket where each side bats for 50 overs.
12 SCHOOLS
Coaches groups of 25? (7)

DD, using school as the collective noun for fish, of which salmon are an example.
14 RETAILING
Selling wingless nuts and bolts, possibly to drill association (9)

[D]etail[s](=nuts and bolts) in ring(=association)
16 DOETH
Ancient implement, hoe, revamped with bits of duck tape (5)

(Hoe + d[uck] t[ape])*. The def refers to the archaic conjugation of the verb to do e.g. they doeth=they implement.
18 GREBE
I caught detached iceberg turning back diver (5)

[Ic]eberg< (I c{aught} removed). My text didn't have a space between back and diver, which I think must be a mistake.
20 EPICURISM
Seeking enjoyment in grand old city: ‘Coot’s Touring Society’ (9)

Epic(=grand) + Ur(=old city in Mesopotamia) + I'm(=Coot's) around s{ociety}
22 QUANTUM
Important question and answer session, finally, with corporation (7)

Qu{estion} + a{nswer} + [sessio]n + tum(=corporation i.e. stomach). Quantum can be used as an adjective to mean important e.g. quantum leap.
25 SALMON
Small nut, mostly pink (6)

S{mall} + almon[d]
27 ALIENATED
Worried about fabricated denial? The opposite is conveyed (9)

Denial* around ate(=worried), with the "opposite" indicating the reversal of the implied order in the first part of the clue. However, I'm struggling to work out exactly what the definition is. Worried would seem to be the obvious one, but that's also part of the fodder. Perhaps it's meant to be some sort of &lit.
28 SEIZE
16 down in Nice (5)

CD (seize is 16 in French)
29 LIGHT
You must record this match? (5)

Seems to be a DD but I'm not sure what the first part refers to.
30 DISAPPEAR
Show contempt for Michelle Mone, maybe calling out ‘get lost!’ (9)

Dis(=show contempt, a shortened form of disrespect) + hom of "a peer", which at the time of writing Mone still is.

DOWN
1 INCA
South American in London area leaving ‘as a precaution’ (4)

In ca[se] (S{outh} E{ast}, which is often regarded as the equivalent of London in crosswordland, being removed)
2 THAW OUT
Melt what? (4,3)

What* = thaw out
3 EXPLETIVE
Former partner abandoned pet, evil ‘xxxx‘! (9)

Ex + (pet evil)*. Expletives are often 4 letter words, so might be indicated by 4 x characters.
4 ARMISTICE
Intermission in war film stops Erica fidgeting (9)

Mist(=film) in Erica*
5 KIRKS
King tees off in hallowed Scottish venues (5)

K{ing} + irks(=tees off). Kirk is a Scottish word for a church.
6 FAITH
Belief in those running football damaged top to bottom (5)

FA(=football association) + hit(=damaged) with the h moving to the bottom
7 EPISODE
Sanctimonious chap probing both sides of emotive affair (7)

(Pi(=sanctimonious) + sod(=slang term for chap)) in e[motiv]e
8 DORIS
Day perhaps to see to teacher’s retirement (5)

Do(=to see to) + sir<. Doris Day is an example of someone called Day.
13 FROG
Water lover going back in: swimming or fishing? (4)

Hidden, reversed in swimming or fishing
15 GLISSADES
GI less sad after training manoeuvres on mountain (9)

(GI less sad)*
16 DOUBLES UP
Crumpled blouse found during party for couples (7,2)

Blouse* in DUP(=Democratic Unionist Party)
17 HUMP
Bulge throbbing softly (4)

Hum(=throbbing) + p(=piano)
19 ELATING
Thrilling night out: husband wasted after knocking back booze (7)

Nig[h]t* (h{usband removed) after ale<
21 IDOLISE
Vow one’s kept in university, finding love (7)

I do(=vow in wedding ceremony) + I in LSE(=London School of Economics)
22 QUAIL
Get cold feet in game (5)

DD, quail being a game bird.
23 TENET
Contribution to co-written ethical opinion (5)

Hidden in co-written ethical
24 MUTED
Subdued Greek character heads for the emergency department (5)

Mu(=Greek letter) + initial letters of the emergency department
26 YEAR
Beloved daughter departs for an unknown period (4)

Dear with the d{aughter} replaced by Y, an unknown in maths equations.

24 comments on “Independent 11,665 by Coot”

  2. LIGHT
    I thought it was referring to the LIGHT we had to fill in.
    ALIENATED
    Def: Conveyed (think property conveyance/alienation)

  3. Forgot to say this:
    Thanks Coot. Enjoyed the puzzle.
    Thanks NealH. Great blog.

    Liked RETAILING, GREBE, DISAPPEAR and LIGHT (assuming my interpretation (crossword solution-LIGHT) is right. If wrong, there could be something more like this).

  4. A nice approachable puzzle which came as somewhat of a relief after twisting my head around this morning’s Guardian. I am similarly confused by LIGHT and assumed the other def related to the lights in the crossword in some way. MT RAINIER, RETAILING, QUANTUM, THAW OUT, FROG, COUPLES UP, HUMP, ELATING and IDOLISE were my faves. (Those final four seem to be telling a story …). SEIZE didn’t feel particularly cryptic and I suspect the setter might have originally clued it without the ‘down’ which doesn’t quite fit in the clue.

    Thanks Coot and NealH

  5. POSTMARK@4
    SEIZE
    An academic question:
    Is ‘down in Nice’ a proper English usage (like down there/here?)?

    @3
    *something more TO like this

  6. Well done KVa: yes, that would work and Nice is down in the South of France, at least from a UK perspective. It still doesn’t feel particularly cryptic but I do think you’ve accounted for the ‘down’.

  7. Thanks for explaining ’nuts and bolts’. Some clues remain unclear as has been noted – LIGHT, ALIENATED and the use of ‘down’ in 28 which was otherwise a nice clue😉. Does it imply a southerly location? Liked the puzzle though. Thanks Coot.

  8. Fun puzzle but I agree a couple of the clues are questionable. 16a annoyed me because “doeth” is 3rd person singular and corresponds to [he/she/it] “does”, so “implements” not “implement”; I know people facetiously add -eth to a few random words and think it makes the text look like olde English, but the language doesn’t work that way.
    There’s a ghost theme: note today’s date, and if that doesn’t help look at 26d.
    Thanks to Coot, and especially to NealH for standing in for me today.

  9. Thanks Coot & NealH, lovely stuff. Faves include IN THE DARK, MT RAINIER, DISAPPEAR, FAITH & FROG. SEIZE I think the surface makes it cryptic enough (well, I was looking for 16d connections anyway!) Originally thought L in LOVERS might be an incorrectly abbreviated Limited, but a nice PDM there. Not keen on “that’s” (rather than “that is”) for IE, and LIGHT (assuming it must refer to the crossword term) didn’t feel quite right. Chambers has “transferred” for ALIENATED so that seems fine – it was the QUANTUM definition I initially found a tad stretchy (“sudden, spectacularly different”) but I guess in practice “important” fits the bill. There *is* an appropriate theme of course – not sure I have them all, but I’ve counted 7 of one (eg 22a) and 5 of the other (eg 8d), nicely done. Thanks again!

  10. ALIENATED
    To alienate land is to transfer rights to that land to another person. This seems the same as ‘to convey’ the said rights to another person.
    Alienation and conveyance are used interchangeably, I think. However, someone may explain better.
    LIGHT
    You must fill in/record this (this LIGHT/crossword solution–as PM@4 has also said)
    SEIZE
    PM@6
    I was asking if you could say this:
    Down in Nice SEIZE means 16/sixteen.

  11. I really enjoyed this. Some lovely constructions and particularly a few of the definitions. ARMISTICE is lovely all round and MT RAINIER is one of those clues that’s likely to live long in the memory.

    On SEIZE, I understand a sense that it doesn’t feel very cryptic. When I first considered it as the solution, I must have felt the same, as I was looking for a definition to match it. But the fact that it was one of my last in (utterly misled by the “down”, which is essential to the deception) makes it pretty clear that it led me up the garden path in exactly the way any good cryptic clue should. It doesn’t feel hard once you understand what’s going on, but that could describe many clues, and CDs are always walking that tightrope between transparent and impenetrable.

    Thanks Coot and NealH.

  12. Quirister @8, what would 3rd person plural be? I’d guess doeth too, to match implement, but perhaps not?
    I was completely fooled by SEIZE, liked that, MT RAINIER, ARMISTICE and LOVERS particularly. Can’t fathom ALIENATED.
    IN THE DARK means ignorant. As a literal phrase it’s rather a green car solution.
    Thanks both

  13. James@12
    IN THE DARK
    What does ‘a green car solution’ mean? I am not familiar with the expression.
    The clue is referring to ‘A shot IN THE DARK’. Doesn’t it?

  14. KVa @13
    I didn’t think of shot in the dark, thanks.
    By green car (someone else’s coinage) I mean words that might be found together in use, but don’t make a ‘thing’. So ‘in the dark’ is a thing if it means ignorant, but not if it just means ‘in the absence of light’. But I see that I missed the point, so apologies.

  15. Unfortunately the indy site was all out of whack here, dates all wrong etc
    I eventually had it set to me but I was a bit put off
    But a lot better than printing out Groundhog Day 4 more times.

  16. Many thanks to Neil for the blog and to everyone who has commented.

    cranberryfez @9 has of course spotted the theme, although I made it 7 of each so you might have to look again! One of them is possibly rather obscure.

    Most of the queries have been explained: ALIENATED & LIGHT by KVa @10, and Catnip @11 has summed up very well what I was aiming for in SEIZE. Re QUANTUM, while the definition might seem a stretch based on Chambers, Collins has “vitally important”. But I fear that Quirister @8 has me banged to rights re DOETH – apologies for that.

  17. I got this finished, but thanks to all above for explaining quite how!

    The odds on remembering this theme four years on are quite slim.

    Thanks Coot and NealH.

  22. Thanks Coot, I enjoyed this with FIELD, INCA, THAW OUT, FROG, and ELATING being my top picks. I did not know KIRKS and only guessed a few others so thanks NealH for the blog.

  23. Thanks both. Despite doing these puzzles for quite a while, it appears I am still unsure what constitutes a LIGHT as online definitions vary between it being the clue (as in lightbulb) and it being the empty cells…..neither of which quite works for me in today’s clue, as what must be recorded is the answer. Limited brain pain nonetheless as more or less everything else went in fairly quickly after a late start

  24. TFO @23, Chambers has “in a crossword, the word (or sometimes an individual letter in the word) on the diagram that is the answer to a clue”. Collins expresses it a little more simply: “the answer to a clue in a crossword”.

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