Guardian Cryptic 29,353 by Pangakupu

70 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 29,353 by Pangakupu”

1. And PUAKI (to reveal) the uncrossed letters in row 8. Thanks to Manehi and Pangakupu

2. Went steadily through this…the last two days had started well, but had left two or three undone, happily that was not the case today…this meaning of “Brake” was new to me, and had not parsed “Stead” as “function”, nor “SIREN”, but everything else was good. I remembered “CHELSEA TRACTOR” from some months back.
   Thank you to Pangakupu, and to Manehi especially for the early blog

3. Thanks Panga & manehi. Not a great action fan, hence dnk that a handbrake turn is a thing. Also couldn’t parse als in area, clever! The SW was the other hold-up as I’d fat-fingered csrboy for carboy; sorting that gave accrual, loi. No Set Theory in the maths curriculum in my day; does it overlap with Venn?

4. The last appearance of CHELSEA TRACTOR was Philistine, 29,233 in Nov 2023 with “Empty large car? Earth cost appalling!”.
   I struggled to parse ARAL SEA, brake for some trees, and stead for function. Favourite was PUSHCHAIR.

5. grantinfreo@3 Yes, Venn diagrams included in set theory. It also leads to Russell’s paradox by considering the set of all sets that are not members of themselves.

6. I enjoyed this but have a couple of quibbles. On a stylistic front, “almost entirely” and “everything mostly” seem like one too many for a single puzzle.

   Re: DELETED. I would not call a let a poor service, far from it. A poor service is inter alia stopped by the net or goes out. A good service (usually) is one that barely misses the top of the net and goes in, so a let, which occurs when the ball just nicks the top of the net but goes in, causing a redo, is a good attempt. Imo.

   Interestingly, while the ARAL SEA is indeed quite small today, I just read, before it started drying up it was the third largest lake in the world. This was when some of us more, um, senior folks first ran across it, so seeing it described as small was at first a bit jarring.

7. Dr. WhatsOn@6
   DELETED
   LET
   This is a different ball game. Net-net LET is a poor service in crosswordostan. 😊

   Thanks Pangakupu and manehi!
   Lovely puzzle & a superb blog (as neat as always-doesn’t leave anything unexplained as a rule)!

   Loved ARAL SEA, C TRACTOR and HB TURNS.

   ENNOBLE: The def should be ‘improve status of’?

   C TRACTOR: superb surface. With the ? it reads like a humorous extended def. Contra type!
   Tim C: Yea. A beautiful green clue. Thanks . I remember the discussions.

8. Another who didn’t parse ARAL SEA.
   The idea of a CHELSEA TRACTOR doing a HANDBRAKE TURN is scary. We have our equivalents down here. And there are often accidents outside schools and in parking lots with these monsters, and their drivers.
   I quite liked the way that ARGON and ORGAN crossed, Early in and I was looking for more, but not to be.
   PUSHCHAIR was a giggle.

9. [pdm @8, dju ever see the French & Saunders one where S does the school run in a Sherman tank? Drops off kid, goes off screen, screech of brakes. Segue to Silent Witness scene, different kid, on slab, crushed by tank track. Black and biting].

10. Oh yes of course, Dave E @5, that paradox has been flagged up here before, possibly more than once.

11. How does stead=function, please?

12. Thanks to Pangakupu and manehi. A gradual solve with some good stuff along the way. Needed help with some parsing (appreciated, manehi) but really enjoyed several clues including 24a BRAINSTEM and 27a DOCTRINAL. Similarly to Tim C@4 and paddymelon@8, I gave a big tick to 15d PUSHCHAIR – what a great surface (though in Australia we would call it a pram or stroller). I thought the hidden Māori word was PUKAKI, referring to a lake in the South Island.

13. gladys @11, it’s not the first synonym of function that comes to mind. I was looking for Sin or Cos to be in there, but to quote Chambers, “stead n the place, function, role or position of another, as in act in someone’s stead….”
    KVa@7 and paddymelon @8, I listed some of the Australian equivalents to a Chelsea Tractor in that Philistine blog

14. Not having been a fan of Pangakupu previously, I was expecting disappointment with this. How wrong I was! Excellent surfaces, neat misdirections, no weaknesses at all. Lovely crossword and a fun start to a miserable wet day. Apologies and thanks to the setter, and thanks manehi.

15. Thanks TimC: no, definitely not the first “synonym” that comes to mind (or even the last, in my case).

    I am getting used to Pangakupu’s style, which reminds me of the “old” Everyman: lots and lots of fiddly little bits to be fitted into place with a satisfying click. Some good anagrams today and good sufaces for CHELSEA TRACTOR and PUSHCHAIR.
    Failed to parse ARAL SEA and HANDBRAKE TURNS. I have no quarrel with brake=trees, but didn’t remember it. I was trying to fit in something along the lines of KEYSTONE COPSE for the chase scene: I’ll get my coat.

16. Quite tough and also enjoyable.

    Favourite: NILOTIC.

    New for me: SHORTCAKE, CARBOY.

    I was not sure how to parse 22ac and 23d.

    Thanks, both.

17. Thanks to Tim C @ 13 for explaining STEAD (and gladys for asking).
    NHO BRAKE for trees.

18. Thanks Pangakupu and manehi
    Slow start, but it got easier. Loved CHELSEANTRACTOR and PUSHCHAIR. I didn’t see the parsing of ARAL SEA, and thought it was just non-cryptic. I suppose that makes it &lit?
    I too didn’t see function = STEAD.
    Not keen on HANDBRAKE TURNS. The definition is loose, as is support for HAND.

19. JinA @12: my online Māori dictionary gives three definitions of PUKAKI: a swelling in the neck, a stream/brook and the source of a river. Thanks for the explanation of STEAD as others have (M)USED over. I thought CHELSEA TRACTOR and PUSHCHAIR were brilliant. On the easier side for this setter, only CARBOY was new.

    Ta Pangakupu & manehi.

20. Thanks Pangakupu and manehi. A tough but fair workout. No NHOs but a few unparsed and requiring manehi’s excellent blog. Chelsea Tractor is pretty near perfect

21. Wonderful surfaces today. I couldn’t help wondering whether the couple in 15d were delighted with their new addition, or felt a tinge of regret that their days of “wild happiness” had been interrupted. Thanks too for extremely clear blog. Parsing of Aral Sea defeated me.

22. Baggins @21. Agreed. I thought the surface of that clue extremely evocative once I twigged the answer.

23. Dr Whatson@6 I think you have to read the whole clue as the definition for ARAL SEA as muffin suggests. PUSHCHAIR was great and the whole puzzle one of this setter’s best.

24. Top ticks for A&O, CHELSEA TRACTOR & NILOTIC which I originally thought might be NILADIC but that’s another IT term that hasn’t made it into Chambers yet

    PUSHCHAIR was rather good too

    I suppose coy & wary are almost synonymous if you don’t really know what they mean 🙂

    Cheers M&P

25. Thanks Pangakupu & manehi.
    I especially liked PUSHCHAIR and NILOTIC for their surfaces, and the ‘car Tatler chose’!
    It felt like there was a mini-theme of depletion with EAT INTO, USED, DRY, ANAEMIC, DELETED and ARAL SEA (which as a volume of liquid could also go with CISTERN, NILOTIC & CARBOY?)

26. Like Oofyprosser@14 I didn’t take to Pangakupu when his puzzles started appearing but I have no complaints about this one – tough enough to be interesting but everything solved and parsed in the end. A couple of eco-aware clues in CHELSEA TRACTOR (judging by comments, our non-Brit friends are aware of the term) and ARAL SEA. With the advent of electric parking brakes, presumably HANDBRAKE TURNS will become a thing of the past.
    Thanks manehi and Pangakupu

27. All done. Didn’t parse ‘Aral’. Didn’t look for the nina as I never spot them. Good stuff.

28. muffin@19 HANDBRAKE TURNS. I get what you mean about the definition ‘for chase scenes’. I was taught a handbrake turn by my father when I was learning to drive, in a manual car with disc braves. It was more a safety measure to avoid danger if your breaks failed., not for hooning, as we say down here. And I think that’s what beaulieu was alluding to@27.

    But Collins gives support for hand. (noun) in the sense of assistance. Come and give me a hand in the garden.
    Synonyms: assistance ,help ,aid ,support helping hand

29. I’m with those growing to enjoy Pangakupu. This was great fun, even if we had Argon twice in 2 days. Couldn’t parse Shortcake but kicking myself now I see it.
    DrWhatson@6, always knew you could walk (or at least run) on water!

30. DrW@6 If we read POOR as deficient/unproductive then I think that’s a reasonable description of a let serve?

31. Found this a complete delight from beginning to end, greatly assisted by the helpful grid. So that whenever I made a slightly false step – speculatively inserting Dead instead of ARAL SEA, the down crosser for the first A put me right. Though I too wasn’t quite sure how this body of water parsed. Last one in CARBOY one was a guess from the clueing and a cheeky lookup to confirm a nho before. I’m also very much warming to this setter’s style now after a rather lukewarm personal initial reception…
    Did we have CHELSEA TRACTOR not too long ago?

32. I must have learned about the ARAL SEA from a previous crossword – a TTLI at the time…

33. …On New Year’s Eve 2012, in Guardian 25,832 Crucible had
    “18d Great Lake too reduced in extent(4,3)” – same wordplay – no suggestion of plagiarism – just great minds…

34. …In Eileen‘s blog, muffin@1 pointed out the &littishness

35. …ah, Tim C@4 has already answered that one, about the CHELSEA TRACTOR, my very generous edit time had just expired…

36. I enjoyed 9dn but it could have been left as an &lit: “Ridiculous car Tatler chose (7,7)”, to avoid the risk that their drivers think they’re being lauded as members of a “smart set” (you know they will!).

37. Enjoyable puzzle, though the clues are rather verbose, with a lot of complicated charades. Like others, I enjoyed CHELSEA TRACTOR, PUSHCHAIR and ARAL SEA (nicely allusive clue, but the remaining fragments of this once very large body of water still extend over several thousand square kilometres – small? 🙂 ). Also CARBOY, reminding me of my former profession.

    Although the etymology of NILOTIC is clearly from the River Nile, the word is usually restricted to a description of the peoples of the Upper Nile: South Sudan, northern Tanzania and nearby areas, and their language family, of which Dinka and Maasai are perhaps the best known examples. So ‘from Egypt’ is perhaps not the best definition, though a more obvious pointer to the solution.

    Thanks to S&B

38. Thanks for the blog, I thought this was very good overall even though I prefer more concise clues. I liked the complete anagram for BRAINSTEM and the precision of DOCTRINAL – losing A love.
    SET THEORY has not really moved on from Frege’s paradox despite lots of fudging.
    Current axioms ZFC (other versions are the same essentially ) can only be proved consistent if they are inconsistent , hmmm.

39. [ AlanC @19 just making the top 20. I had a feeling you would be 02 for Wednesday but I was wrong ]

40. Meant to say, a propos Maths, Science and God (well, the ‘god-particle’), Vale Peter Higgs.

41. Lots of clever clues – none better (or sadder) than the one for ARAL SEA.
    Thanks Pangakupu and Manehi.

42. Nice one, gif @40, seconded.

43. This was a lovely solve. Thank you Pangakupu for a real treat. Also thank you Manehi for the clear parsing. Ronald@31 I put DEAD too until got the first A and couldn’t parse it. Did anyone else want 15D to be PUSHMI-PULLYU? that was one of my favourites as was CHELSEA TRACTOR (“CT”).
    [GIF@10, Tim C@13 and Matt @36 I share your pain 🤣. When I did the school run the YMs in CTs really irritated me. I wanted to wear a T-shirt with SUV = Stupid, Unnecessary, Vain on, but my son talked me out of it. I regret it to this day…]

44. A very good puzzle that was pitched just right for me. I liked DOCTRINAL, PUSHCHAIR and CHELSEA TRACTOR particularly. I actually looked for a nina and strongly suspected it would be PUKAKI – thanks to those who knew it for explaining it.

    And thanks to Pangakupu and manehi.

45. I found this so difficult to get into that I gave up and went for a bike ride as it is a lovely day. But I came back, had a coffee and looked again, and wow! Some answers just shouted at me, and others were a real aha feeling. Maybe the brain really does work secretly on unsolved clues!
    Like others I did not know BRAKE as a thicket or STEAD as a function, and not seen Nilotic but they all made sense.
    Thank you P and m.

46. Bravo to gif @40 for reminding us of the loss of the scientist who predicted the eponymous boatswain

47. 9D is as close to perfect a crossword clue as I have ever seen. Chelsea Tractor was a NHO last time it cropped up, so I was pleased to dredge it from my memory this time. 20D was new to me as was BRAKE for a thicket, but deduced from the rest of the clue.

    Thank you manehi for the parsing of 22A (another excellent surface as the Aral Sea is indeed withering away) and Pangakupu for a very good puzzle.

48. Failed on ARAL SEA, and did not parse SIREN or know ‘brake’ as a group of trees, but am happy to have got to the end (minus a couple of letters) and to have enjoyed so many clues.

    Gervase@34 – I hear what you say. I thought that Pangakupu’s first puzzles were over-verbose, but the recent ones have been a joy. It is probably fair to say that there was a hint of a return to early form in this one, but like others above I have come to look forward to Pangakupu’s contributions which I think now have some of the best surfaces of any.

49. Similar to SinCam @45, I entered only a few, thought it was too difficult, went away, returned to it … and the answers just flowed.
    Liked the surfaces. I love clues where you need to do several things to get to the answer, and that was well represented here. And – yes – the best crosswords are the ones you can finish 🙂 .

50. Thanks, Pangakapu and manehi.

51. Trying to complete before starting work means that coming here allows me to appreciate the clues in and of themselves. A tour-de-force by Pangakuku, accompanied by an enlightening blog (ARAL SEA) by manehi, one of our excellent set of unravellers/enlighteners … we are most privileged

52. Mea culpa – and also fellow bloggers to spotlight the high points … and also the lows in other puzzles

53. Last in was the excellent CHELSEA TRACTOR because I stupidly put in SCRUB for 25a (most of the Scrubs) and ignored the fact that it’s not synonymous with beat.
    Fun to solve, but some of the clueing is a bit like putting Meccano together for my money.
    Thanks, manehi and Panga

54. Either my mind is exceptionally sharp today (doubtful) or this was the gentlest Pangakupu ever – and that’s fine because I need validation now and then.
    I entered PUSHCHAIR without giving a thought to what it actually meant in British English. In my mind I was thinking “wheelchair” which, I think, makes the surface even funnier!

55. Pangakupu has become one of my favorite setters. I thought this was an excellent puzzle, even though I thought Aral Sea was a brilliant cryptic definition. However, carboy was definitely the best clue, even though I biffed the answer – then it took me a while to figure it out.

56. [Roz@39’s statement on ZF (with or without C) needs a qualification that the proofs cannot be conducted within the theory – there’s a lot of work on relative consistency. Doesn’t get you to the end of Hilbert’s programme though. I also think the finitists would be unhappy with the statement that all set theory axiomatisations are essentially the same.
    Unlike the Grundlage, ZFC has no known inconsistencies, so there’s some progress.]

57. Tim@56 there is no evidence the ZF(C) is consistent, even worse if there ever is a proof of consistency then it must be inconsistent.
    Maths is not a logical construct based on axioms it simply a set of rules agreed by humans.

58. [Roz and Tim
    I don’t know anything about these specifics of set theory, but didn’t Godel show that maths can’t be consistent?]

59. [ Muffin pretty much so , any useful set of axioms cannot be shown to be consistent or complete, mathematicians close their eyes and put their fingers in their ears and pretend it never happened, This is my final word on this topic ]

60. Thanks manehi, i’m another who thought ARAL SEA was a (weak, in my case) cryptic definition, now revised my opinion completely! And my search suggests Pukaki means “Notebook”, adding to the confusion. I can’t add to the Set Theory debate, fortunately, but agree with muffin on my dim recollection of Gödel and with Roz that there were some very nicely precise instructions in here, another strong puzzle from Pangakupu, thanks.

61. [Impressed that you could do the umlaut, gazzh!]

62. Ka pai ehoa !

63. [Roz@59. I know this was your last word, so not expecting a response …. The issue with set theory you point to is that of infinite sets (e.g. the Russell paradox). Hilbert and others (cf the wonderful book on him by Cassou-Nogues) just simply said that every set is finite – so many problems go away then (there is no set of all sets …); and the ontological justification is that after all (even in string theory) the universe itself never breaks the finitude mark … }.

64. Was happy briefly to get an answer for “they’re useful for chase scenes” of “cardboard boxes” until it failed to fit with argon.

65. Usually I pass over Pangakupu’s puzzles as they seem too convoluted but, as I’m stuck at home with a virus, I decided to try it. Lo and behold I finished it and even managed to parse everything. So thanks setter and blogger and the F.S. community for all your lovely comments.

66. [‘God made the integers. All else is the work of man’. Kronecker]

67. It would seem that the clue for ARAL SEA and the nina PUKAKI are there to tell a story, with the contrast between them, ARAL SEA drying up because of human intervention and Lake Pukaki being pristine and conserved. It’s worth looking them both up.

    This article gives some background to the 1960s decision by the Soviet Union to divert water for irrigation which led to pollution and the Aral Sea shrinkage, and NASA images in a series 2000 to 2018.
    https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/world-of-change/AralSea

68. I’m surprised that none of the people who object to double duty have complained about the ridiculous car in 9d CHELSEA TRACTOR. Ridiculous car is a suitable definition, while ridiculous is the anagrind and car is part of the anagrist. I know, ‘one for the smart set’ is also a suitable definition, but that just makes ‘ridiculous car’ an example of SDD (superfluous double duty). 😉

    I loved that clue, but the award for SOTY (surface of the year) has to go to the hilarious 13d PUSHCHAIR.

    Thanks Pangakupu for the great puzzle, and manehi for the excellent blog.

69. [Polyphone I know what you mean but my point is deeper than that , it is not the infinites and paradoxes that are the problem , although the adjustments are really just a fudge, ( Cantor, Aleph1 , c ? ) . The problem is that any axioms of set theory cannot be shown to be consistent, ( and every other area) . Mathematicians tell me they BELIEVE that ZFC is consistent which turns it into a religion .
    I am not knocking mathematics here, I think it is incredibly important and valuable even when it seems to be no “use” at all , and pure research should be supported and funded at all times in all areas. I am just saying call it what it is and stop pretending it is axiomatic .
    I said it was my final word but you made very good points so I wanted to clarify my views. ]

70. Very belated last word from me. I don’t think Roz disagreed with anything I wrote. I agree with Roz that the acceptance of mathematical proof is a social construct rather than a result of exhibiting a proof from the axioms of ZFC, although many simple proofs about structures are formalizable from the axioms of the structure involved. I prefer “social construct” to “religion’ as everything is visible: no appeals to mysterious entities that are inherently undetectable except through their perceived effects in the world. For the viewpoint of a mathematician, see this paper, which covers the background and is quite accessible.

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