Guardian Cryptic 29,388 by Chandler

81 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 29,388 by Chandler”

1. This quickly went in after the excellent UNDER CANVAS and UNDEMONSTRATIVE began proceedings. Held up at the end as I had impetuously bunged in Drumming instead of DRUMBEAT, so ESTATE AGENT eventually provided the full house. The New Zealander and CRESSET and SLEEVE WAISTCOAT were new to me. Some lovely clues this morning…
   Oh., and hadn’t heard of SLIDERS before, is that some kind of pizza slice?

2. Thanks Chandler and loonapick
   It’s a long time since I’ve been so much on a setter’s wavelength; several answers just jumped out at me (UNDER CANVAS, SALIERI, and REDHILL amongst others.).
   I hadn’t heard of SLEEVE WAISCOAT either, but it was another that jumped out when the crossers made the anagram obvious.
   Lots to like; I’ll pick MODEST as favourite.

3. ronald
   I’ve never had (or seen in real life) a SLIDER, but I think it’s a sort of mini-hamburger on an equally mini bun.

4. Sliders have become a trendy food item in the past 10 years or so; they’re miniature hamburgers, usually with much better ingredients than the greasy, onion-topped original mass-produced by the notorious US chain White Castle.

   Grumpy Statler and Waldorf booing for 11a. A relatively smooth solve if you’ve got the GK, with the long anagrams coming out very nicely.

5. Never heard of sliders as fast food. It was a toss up between either that or ‘slikers’ and, fortunately, I chose the right one.

6. I liked the way the puzzle finished. Very enjoyable. Liked patrol in DRUMBEAT and CLOCK TOWER a favourite as well. I had the same experience as muffin@2 in that some clues were immediately obvious with a crosser or two e.g. 26a, 10a, and 13a and TUATARA was a gimme. KFC does sliders. Thanks loonapick and Chandler.

7. I initially thought 24a must have been SLIKERS, but no. I’m more familiar with “prost” as the German toast — didn’t know it could include an “i”.

   Didn’t know the Surrey town, nor TUATARA nor CRESSET.

   Quite an enjoyable solve, thanks.

8. Many thanks to all you early posters who explained what SLIDERS are. I’ve never consumed one, either!

9. Certainly not Quiptic material.
   I don’t find R=Rare in C2016 (or CCD) for SALIERI. Examples anyone (numismatics/philately)?
   I laughed at the pun of SUMMATION in anticipation of the outraged comments.
   Favourite was INANE for a lovely clue.

10. I needed online help with some GK and new vocabulary. New for me: Redhill, town in Surrey; SLEEVE WAISTCOAT; SLIDERS = fast food; CRESSET; TUATARA.

    Favourites: the long anagrams at 1d and 6d; and INANE.

    I could not parse the ESTATE bit of 26ac.

    The homonym of some Asian / summation in 11ac seemed unusual to me although I guess it could be classed as vaguely sounding similar.

    Thanks, both.

11. I liked most of the ones which had a question mark, like CLOCK TOWER, ESTATE AGENT, SALIERI and RIDDLED. It’s all about the phrarsing. 🙂

    GDU@7. You’d hear PROSIT at Oktoberfest.
    https://oktoberfest-guide.com/magazine/ein-prosit-der-gemuetlichkeit/“>. This link is in English and gives the history.

    For a recording with the translation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqH_wnJroM4

12. Thanks Chandler and loonapick

    I hope we see more of Chandler – some easier clues to get going but a few tough ones to puzzle out at the end. I had a few minquibbles but upon reading through loonapick’s explanations I found there were my mistakes not the setter’s

13. Sliders is such an unappetising-sounding name for a type of food.

    Enjoyed the puzzle, entertaining stuff. Some of the GK I got from the clueing, but needed help to fill in SALIERI and TUATARA.

14. This seemed a bit like Chandler remembered 3/4 of the way through that he was doing a cryptic not a Quiptic

    Top ticks for EMACIATED, MODEST & INANE

    Cheers L&C

15. michelle@10. I’m glad you menshioned Asian in SUMMATION. I think that Asian and ”ation” are more than ”unusual”.
    I think you’re being polite, not wishing to incite homophone purists, like me.
    But the zh sound in Asia, and the sh sound in nation (sorry can’t do the phonetics here) are distinctive.

    Would anyone think that measure and mesher sound alike? I don’t even think they’re punnable.

16. I’m not biting anymore pdm @14, just chuckling to myself.

17. TUATARA
    I was pleased to have an excuse to consult my Māori dictionary again unexpectedly soon.
    It says that a Tuatara is a reptile with baggy skin and spines down the back. They are feared as they are associated with Whiro, a spirit whose realm is all things evil.

18. Sliders are often served as canapes, or tapas style burgers, very popular in the US, usually held together with a toothpick.

    UNDER CANVAS went in straight away, which gave me most of the downs and the top half was completed rather too quickly. Then promptly ground to a halt on the bottom half with ANTHRACITE, CRESSET and TUATARA all new to me.

    Wasn’t sure that R could be rare for SALIERI but a quick Google confirmed this must be the case. Not sure I’m quite on board with the homophone for SUMMATION but it was fairly clued and obvious that was the meaning.

    Enjoyable puzzle this morning, thanks to Chandler and loonapick!

19. SUMMATION
    Tim C@9, michelle@10, paddymelon@14 and others!
    In addition to the routine zh version, Chambers gives the sh option too.
    Even the stress in a’shan and SUMMA’TION match.
    This is the copy-paste limit of my knowledge of phonetics. Now
    experts may crosscheck and satisfy themselves or…whatever! 🙂

20. Several new words here, which is always educational!
    Didn’t know SLEEVEWAISTCOAT but the anagram was clear. I failed completely on TUATARA, so it’s good to find out more about it. Thanks Anna@16.
    This meaning of SLIDER was new: to me it’s one of those small blocks of ice cream held in the hand between two oblong wafers.
    Thank you to Chandler and loonapick.

21. Thanks to Chandler and loonapick
    Relatively straightforward. I thought a few of the surfaces were a bit clunky compared to, say, Philistine, but particularly enjoyed INANE, especially as it was the last clue.

    Like others, learnt CRESSET and SLIDERS today although both fairly clued. Once had a contract in Redhill so that came easily!

22. paddymelon@14: some people do pronounce “asian” with a sh not a zh, which makes the homophone audible. It took me a long time to spot how that clue worked: ouch!

    The top half of this went in quickly, helped by getting UNDER CANVAS and UNDEMONSTRATIVE straight off – then halfway down all the wheels fell off. Nho SLIDERS, though I think I have eaten some under another name, nor is a SLEEVE WAISTCOAT a garment I’m familiar with. Took a while to work out TUATARA but I have heard of one (thanks, Mr. Attenborough).

    Favourite the puzzle ending IN AN E.

    (Meandme@19: Your version of SLIDERS are fast food too.)

23. Sleeve waistcoat?
    Is this a real thing?

24. Enjoyed the puzzle.

    The homophone seems quite close to me. Curiously, saying SUMMATION for SOME ASIAN would hardly be noticed, but the reverse substitution might raise an eyebrow. But that’s just me.

    Regarding the rare R in SALIERI, if I were crossword-dictator, the rule for abbreviations would not be “It’s in Chambers” but “It’s in common use”. This one seems to be neither! Oh well.

25. R for rare is in Wiktionary, and according to Collins it’s British English, so although not in my Chambers (1999) it does seem to have some usage. I wondered about cooking steaks on waiter’s tabs. I wrote in SALIERI too, without overthinking R for rare.

    I also looked up SLEEVE WAISTCOAT, and apparently they all started with sleeves, got the sleeves chopped off later, now still used for barristers, as that’s who they were sold for.

    SLIDERS I knew because my daughter was given them out playing with a friend, to which I said thank you, none the wiser, other than some fast food.

    That was fun. Thank you to Chandler and loonapick.

26. SLIDERS and some GK left me at a loss, but elsewhere friendly anagrams made this a cheerful solve.
    Thank you Chandler & loonapick. Skol!

27. I liked the surface of 1a with the ‘muted’ inventor being UNDEMONSTRATIVE. Does that have a name? Whatever, it appealed to me.
    Also liked ANTHRACITE, SLIDERS, TUATARA, EMACIATED, INANE.
    Thanks Chandler and loonapick.

28. SueM48@26
    UNDEMONSTRATIVE
    Some call this type of clue an extended def. Great surface for sure.

29. I suppose it was possible to deduce TUATARA and CRESSET before checking afterwards, so it’s a win for the solver this time. Doesn’t feel satisfactory though! (Walks off muttering).

    Thanks both.

30. @ too many names to mention re SUMMATION.
    I did try to make sure that Ayshun wasn’t a variant, but didn’t find it. KVa tells me it’s in Tchaymbuz and gladys says she’s heard of it, so I’m now mute on this.

31. Things started off well so I assumed I must just be on Chandler’s wavelength. However, the bottom left-hand corner took an eternity. My knowledge of Antipodean fauna is embarrassingly slight, so that little fellow meant a word-search trawl. CRESSET was a new ‘un, too. I’ve seen the things, now I know their name…
    As for SLIDERS: like many commenters, I’d never heard of them. I divide my time between rural SW France and London and am not averse to a spot of fast food. RogerGS@4 says they’re trendy – well, not in those two places, alas.
    Another guess-from-crosses: SLEEVE WAISTCOAT. This is a thing, is it?
    I must know as little about tailoring as I do NZ wildlife and catering minutiae.
    A waistcoat with sleeves would…er…be
    pretty similar to a cloth cardigan, then? Or a thin jacket? Crosswords are so educational!
    I really liked CLAIM, EMACIATED, CLOCK TOWER and the delightful INANE.
    Thank you Chandler & loonapick.

    One last thing: could we please have a moratorium on Homophone? It clearly upsets so many people. Somebody rather brilliantly suggested “aural wordplay” – which is way better.
    Or perhaps, simply, “sounds a bit similar to”….

32. When I were a lad sliders were a slab of ice-cream between two wafers, but I admit to having seen the hamburger version.

    I echo the reservations about R=rare.

33. KateE @22 I too wondered about that, thinking to myself ‘sounds like a jacket then’ Googling turned up a Barrister’s sleeve wasitcoat, short jacket thing with a wasitcoat quantity of buttons.
    I can’t quite see SIT as a decent synonym for BROOD, but must be in the minority.

    Otherwise a nice mix of head scratch and write-ins. Thanks to both

34. TUATARAS are famous (I thought!) for having a rudimentary third eye on the top of their heads.

35. Doofs @32
    I looked sideways at SIT too, but concluded it referred to a bird sitting on (brooding) eggs.

36. Did a bit of digging into SLEEVE WAISTCOAT, and it turns out Bernard Cribbins wore a nice one in The Railway Children

37. Another I doubted was ANTHRACITE as grey – I would have called it black – but Google easily turned up a paint colour called “anthracite grey“.

38. I thought SLEEVE WAISTCOATS sounded like a contradiction in terms but found some beautiful examples online today.

    In the link below, with illustrations, it is said that: Most surviving examples of Jacobean waistcoats are embroidered, which makes Chandler’s anagrind very apt.

    .https://sarahabendall.com/tag/jacobean-embroidered-waistcoat/

39. I always learn at least one new thing from Cryptics. Today it was many new things. Thank you Chandler. I hope to see more from you. Loonapick did a brilliant job explaining unfamiliar facts and honourable mentions to muffin @34 for the third eye, and Judge @35 for the excellent link – I really couldn’t picture it before I saw that. RIP dear Bernard.
    I got my BITTER and FITTER the wrong way round, so not a complete finish. With apologies to some of you, SUMMATION made me smile 😎.

    Sorry pm@38 I was writing while you were posting. The female version is lovely to see too…

40. As others have noted, some Quiptic clues but some unusual words that I DNK: the WAISTCOAT, SLIDERS, CRESSET and TUATARA.

    I liked the part anagram for ANTHRACITE, the wordplay for PROSIT, and the INANE way to finish the puzzle; very apt!

    Thanks Chandler and loonapick.

41. Very enjoyable. Nho SLIDERS or TUATARA. SUMMATION is near enough for me, because the crossers are helpful. I particularly liked CLOCK TOWER and MODEST.

    In general, I don’t really like clues that use non-indicated initial letters, even when they’re in Chambers. Today that’s 10ac (R), 22ac (A), 26ac (A and T), 15d (D), 18d (T and A). That seems quite a lot for one crossword.

42. paddymelon@38
    SLEEVE WAISTCOAT
    That’s an embellishment I didn’t see. Thanks. How do you feel about ‘with embroidery’/’embroidery’ as an anagrind?
    I find ‘variegation or diversity’ as one entry under embroidery in whatisitsname. Does the anagrind work in this sense?

43. Thanks for the blog, I thought this was very good, many nice little touches throughout the clues.
    SLIDERS is new to me, I was exactly the same as George @5.
    I did a bit of waiting on tables as a student and R=rare was definitely used .

44. 22a EMACIATED – “Down With This Sort Of Thing. Careful Now.”
    [Spoiler alert: don’t watch it if you’ve never seen, but are planning on watching The Crying Game(1992)]

45. I was lucky enough to get TUATARA straightaway through having several times seen and communed with one while working at Victoria University of Wellington – a very calming experience. That was 25 years ago, but evidently only the on-campus location has since changed. Well worth a look if you are ever in that great city,
    https://www.wgtn.ac.nz/news/2017/12/victorias-resident-tuatara-on-the-move

46. On the easier side but nonetheless enjoyable. Particular thanks to muffin for the background on the NZ lizard thing…fascinating.

47. Thanks Chandler and loonapick. This was more like a Monday puzzle – certainly more than the one from yesterday. Having said that, cresset was new to me and is a very handy word to know and l didn’t parse estate agent, so many thanks loonapick for the enlightenment. Not sure summation particularly works that well as a homophone for some Asian…? Salieri always brings to mind the outstanding performance of F Murray Abraham in one of my favourite films. Chandler brings to mind my teenage years reading and wanting to be Marlowe – having now given up hard liquor and smoking it is proving fairly difficult to follow in his footsteps along the mean streets of Sandown IOW.

48. A great puzzle. Even though I failed to get TUATARA I’ve learned of another new word. In my world ANTHRACITE was the gold standard of coal but at first I was tied in knots trying to get something to do with the brain. Loved INANE.
    Frankieg@44 Stand by your man is now stuck in my ear. What a movie ending that was. Thanks Chandler and loonapick.

49. Disappointing puzzle where I got off to a flying start thinking this should have been Monday’s. Then ground to a halt with some obscurities. Ho hum.

50. Pretty straightforward, but I cannot accept “grey matter” as a def for the blackest of black coal.

51. Bit of a Curate’s egg for me. There was lots to like here, notably 22A. But some of the reliance on replacing words with their initial letters with no hint to do so seemed like a stretch even in crosswordland, e.g. R for ‘rare’.

52. I’ve always pronounced ASIAN to rhyme with -ATION.

53. Goujeers @50
    See mine @37

54. Excellent, never heard of TUATARA…

55. I’d agree with Goujeers @50 that ANTHRACITE as coal is very black, but oddly it’s a colour name for a dark grey in many paints and plastics, darker than slate but not pure black.

56. I think anthracite looks grey because it’s so shiny that it reflects the light and has a silvery sheen.

57. Is it the UK versus the rest of the world in pronouncing Asian? As a Brit, I always say it to rhyme with nation.

58. Baggins @57
    I’m with you – I was baffled by the complaints. I can’t imagine how else “Asian” would be pronounced! I suppose that I say “ayshan” rather than “ayshun” if I’m being careful, but always the “sh” sound for the “ti”.

59. …”sh” for the “si”, rather.

60. Thanks both,
    Along with Ovr @37, the anthracite I recall from my youth was shiny and did look grey. Not as black as charcoal, which is also a shade of grey.

61. Very enjoyable.
    I had heard of SLIDERS, but there were several others I had to get from the word play – successfully. I am full of admiration for Chandler for ensuring accurate, workable word play wherever the definition was obscure.
    And many thanks for the blog and to several contributors for interesting stuff about embroidered waistcoats and about lizards with three eyes (sort of)!

62. I too only knew the ice cream sort of slider. I suspect this may be a Scots usage as Oor Wullie (anyone else remember him?) was fond of them.

63. ANTHRACITE – Dark grey, or black? According to Father Ted it could be “very very very very … dark blue”
    “Never buy black socks in a normal shop. They’ll shaft you every time.”

64. Sliders started out as fast food–White Castle’s fairly greasy tiny hamburgers with grilled onions and cheese that slide down your gullet in two or three bites. These days, they’ve appeared on menus in all kinds of restaurants with all kinds of fillings–usually artisanal, chef-y stuff–as a shared plate or appetizer. Pulled pork sliders are highly recommended if you see them. My local near work does a fried chicken slider that’s pretty good. I’ve also seen potroast sliders, portobello mushroom sliders, barbacoa sliders, teriyaki sliders, etc. Trendy, as someone said. In fact, it feels like you almost never see them as just mini hamburgers any more (because that’d be boring, I guess). Anyway, they usually come in orders of 3 or 4; it can be a meal for one person or a starter for the table.

65. CRESSET@17d How do you put oil in a basket?

    I think EMACIATED means “very thin,” not “feeble.”

    Jimbo@18 I’m with you on SLIDERS. I don’t think they’re fast food as at McDonald’s, they’re canapes in more upmarket venues. Well, now I read mrpenney I see he’s nailed it. I think the hamburger kind are boring anyway, even before the trendy kind, because the tiny burger is too small to be rare or juicy.

    Thanks to Chandler and loonapick.

66. TimC@9 and 16, OK, I’ll bite for you. Why do people impose the word ‘homophone’ on the parsing, and then complain that it isn’t one? A pun or other wordplay is not necessarily (and usually isn’t) a homophone in the strict sense.

    As Wellbeck@31 implies, if bloggers would use the term “aural wordplay”, perhaps people would not insist that the clue is supposed to be a homophone.

    SUMMATION at 11a is a pun, a form of aural wordplay that doesn’t imply a strict homophone.

67. I was too young to have got “S” for “Bob”, but guessed SLIDERS from the rest of the clue. An enjoyable puzzle, with a few easier clues to start with then gradually more challenging.

68. Loved the puzzle—thanks Chandler and Loonapick! Sliders are little hamburgers and are featured at a New York area chain called White Castle. My favorite clue was 23D.

69. Thanks both and one that I was sorry when it was finished – succulent and chewy.

    And a fab blog with 50 shades of grey vying with Father Ted (Fed?) for attention. I had a Mrs Doyle moment today when I was offered a free Danish pastry – No thanks, – but how can you refuse a free pastry ?- No I’m good thanks -, ah go on they’re free! – oh all right so.

70. Glad to see there are some commentators who think sliders are a form of ice cream. There was a delicious version with the non PC name of black man – see
    https://www.dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/snds922#:~:text=4.,other%20(Fif.%2C%20Edb. I had never heard this term until I asked my wife if she knew what they were called (she was born in Glasgow). Where I come from I think we more politely called them chocolate sliders.

71. I find the most annoying kinds of puzzle are those which start off very easy, but can only be completed by working out a couple of very obscure solutions. This was one of those – I filled in around two thirds of the answers on a quick initial run-through, did most of the rest with a bit more thought, but was then left with CRESSET and TUATARA, which I suspect many solvers, like me, could only get by looking up using the crossers.
    I much prefer it when there is a more or less consistent level of difficulty across the whole puzzle, whether easy, medium or hard.

72. Baggins and muffin @57 and 58: I feel confident in speaking for all North Americans when I say that we pronounce it ay-zhun, but I don’t think I’ve ever noted that Brits say ay-shan/shun. I’ll have to keep my ears open. Either way, it was a fantastic pun, if not an exact homophone for me.

73. mrpenny@64 YES! And those WC ones were delicious, and came a dozen to a bag for under four bucks. I miss them so.

74. Ok, we have jorums as a code word in this forum.. How about a coinage to reflect the humour intended in the discussions here on soundalike clues? From now on, I’m going to call them AWPs.

    awp (lower case) noun, countable. Not an example of aural wordplay, just an awp.

    But I don’t think we should censure anyone for using whatever word they like, including homophone, if that’s appropriate in the context. I think that even the word ”homophone”, amongst us, has taken on the meaning as per Wellbeck@31 and Cellomaniac@66. A kind of shorthand.

    People may disagree, but that’s what’s I love about 15sq. …. lively, polite discussion and debate, between people who bring different perspectives, often very enlightening, with a good measure of humour.

75. pdm @ 74

    ‘pun’ is even shorterhand

76. Simon S@75. LOL Yeah, but pun has, IMHO, a little too much latitude in a cryptic crossword. (But that’s another debate I don’t want to get into. Aren’t we wordsters such pedants at times?) But as I said, people are free to use any words they choose, including ”pun”.

    I might come and join your ”pun” team. At least pun sounds like fun. I think ”aural wordplay” is just a little too-contrived, but in a well-intentioned attempt to suppress the chatter about ”homophones”. I know aural wordplay doesn’t have to be a true homophone.

    Anyway, awp is my preferred 3 letter word. At least I’m conceding to the AWP camp, and it avoids everyone’s hangups about whatever you call this kind of wordplay.

    Here I am, howling to the wind, while there’s another cryptic to do. I wonder if there’ll be an opportunity? 🙂

77. Having caught up with my backlog of Cryptics I want to say thanks to all the bloggers and commentators over the last few days. I have enjoyed the conversations here as much as the crosswords. Today’s was a curious mix as some have commented. CLOCK TOWER was the standout for me – engendered a chortle. I agree with Dermot Trellis@41 – something of a bugbear of mine on these threads so glad to see someone else take up the cudgel. Thanks Chandler and loonapick.

78. Another with an x for SUMMATION, but I enjoyed CLOCK TOWER. I had to look up TUATARA, which annoyed me as I had heard of it.

79. Impossible. Had to come here to find explanation and still didn’t understand some answers. Why “estate” for example.

80. OMOGG@ As loonapick says in his blog: ESTATE (“one might succeed to get such”) Succeed is to inherit , and if you are the heir you may inherit the estate.

81. One-a-tara, tuatara, three-a-tara, four; five-a-tara, six-a-tara, run for the door!

Comments are closed.