Guardian Cryptic 29,390 by Brockwell

71 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 29,390 by Brockwell”

1. Thanks Brockwell and manehi
   The paper has “World Turtle Day” rather than “World 2 Day”.
   Too many question marks for me to enjoy it. I thought 26 was almost unfair.
   btw I just heard the crossword mentioned on Radio 3!

2. VICAR was almost as obscure as an indirect anagram, Emirates = name of football ground = refereeing practise = abbreviation.

3. It took a while to solve 2D but once I did, the theme actually helped me this time. Extraordinary how many have been fitted in. An enjoyable solve. I was wondering which of the Dream Girls was called Alice! Yes, muffin, I entered Hanks first time round for 26A and felt clever at having thought of it! Thanks manehi for a very helpful blog and, of course, Brockwell for the puzzle.

4. I suppose the target audience is mostly old enough to remember a hit from 56 years ago. I am, but I’d forgotten its rather offbeat spelling, which caused a few problems.

5. Clever and entertaining. I learned something about varieties of turtle. Many thanks

6. Didn’t know anything about a group called the TURTLEs, or that ELENORE was one of their songs, or that loi COOTER was indeed a type of turtle. Then when I had finished this after struggling in places realised that DONATELLO was a Ninja Turtle as well as an artist. Thought therefore that there had to be something going on here themewise, so many thanks Manehi, as I was a million miles off discovering it. Nho of CHELONE either, so a bit of a walk in the dark this morning, despite the return to sunshine and some excellent clues…

7. I worked out the theme about a third of the way through – and, this being Brockwell, knew there would be simply loads of references throughout the answers – but that did not help me spot them! Quite a few are simply beyond my ken – CRADLE CAP, ELENORE, TESTA, CHELONE, NATUROPATH, TOUCHE as a turtle, COOTER and ORWELL as a river. Surprising that I ended up with a filled grid and enjoyed it, considering that list, but I did. I very much needed manehi for some of the explanations though.

   ADULATORY, VICAR, TURTLE, TOUCHE and SINCE were my fave clues today.

   Thanks Brockwell and manehi

8. Don’t forget TURTLE SOUP.

9. No special instructions in the Guardian app, but for once I clocked the theme. Vaguely remember the popular beat combo, but not their songs. Nho CHELONE or COOTER.

10. I found this puzzle, from one of my favourite setters, a delight from start to finish.

    I learned a lot about turtles and admired the linked names (LEATHER BACK, HAWKS BILL, GREEN SEA) and then was impressed to spot other uses of turtle in TURN, DOVE, SOUP and NECK and smiled at DONATELLO and the band (I’d almost forgotten about them). TOUCHÉ was a new one for me.

    Favourite clues were 9ac ADULATORY, 11ac KATSU, 28ac VICAR, 5dn GYRATION (always love that anagram indicator) 7dn ALICANTE and 18dn SWAN NECK – lovely surfaces throughout.

    Brockwell (Grecian) is known for the comprehensiveness of his themes and this was another tour de force, to include so many references. Chapeau, manehi, for teasing them all out.

    Many thanks to Brockwell for a great start to yet another dull morning and to manehi for a great blog.

11. Had the online edition the correct “World Turtle Day” instead of “World 2 Day” I might have stood a chance. Hence a struggle to finish. Thanks to M and B.

12. I did not fully appreciate how many theme-related words there are in the puzzle.

    New for me: CRADLE CAP; TESTA; CHELONE plant commonly known as turtleheads; COOTER turtle; LOGGERHEAD TURTLE. Also the group The Turtles but I now realise that I heard the song Elenore decades ago when I was a child. That must be one of the few songs with ‘et cetera’ in the lyrics: You’re my pride and joy, et cetera. Ugh. If someone ever said that to me I would throw up. I think that the lyrics of that song are terrible!

    I could not parse 4d and 23d.

    Favourites: DONATELLO; ALICANTE.

    Thanks, both.

13. Oh, that’s interesting muffin@1. Does that mean the Guardian crossword editor thinks that the dead tree solvers need it spelled out, whereas the online clue-busters don’t? I’m an online solver, no paper version available to me. When I saw the Special Instructions, whatever it was about, I was determined not to google, or anything else either. So the puzzle was an enjoyable revelation to me.

    Loved the theme, although I didn’t know a couple of the themesters, but I have to confess I do remember, ELENORE, by the band The Turtles (only I didn’t remember the spelling and bunged in ”Eleanor”), and DONATELLO from my son’s tv watching. But the real live creatures are very special to me. The CORAL SEA (ISLANDS) are a well known turtle habitat, closer to home, and have several of the creatures in today’s crossword.

    https://parksaustralia.gov.au/marine/parks/coral-sea/explore/sea-turtles/

    GREEN amused me. “Politician about to get into dope.” Are the Greens in the UK seen as they are down here? Pro legalisation of drugs and latte drinking inner urbanites?

14. It saddens me that people don’t appreciate the subversive genius of Elenore’s lyrics. The use of “et cetera” was their sly response to the record company’s demand for a commercial follow up to Happy Together. A way of saying “whatever?”. Howard and Mark (Flo & Eddie) were much more talented than they were given credit for. And great singers. Witness how much their backing vocals improved the peak period of T. Rex for just one example.

15. Whar a shame that Brockwell couldn’t have shoe-horned Great A’Tuin in somewhere…

16. Me @15: Neat guitar medley on disc? On the contrary! (5,5)

17. I guess I’m not the target audience because The Turtles are not known to me. A paper copy would have undoubtedly helped me with the theme. I’ve listened to the song but I don’t think I have enough background knowledge to say whether the lyrics are terrible or subversive. Hopefully the latter.
    Like Ronald @6 I needed DONATELLO to realise the theme and then it all fell into place. I agree with Eileen @10, a brilliant job by Brockwell and Manehi. Many thanks to pdm @13 for the link.

18. Blaise@16: the Turtle moves, indeed.

19. Blaise @15/16 that’s wonderful 👏.

20. I actually knew ORWELL because I lived near Ipswich many years ago. The river is the Gipping from source to Ipswich, then Orwell from there to the sea. If I remember correctly, Ipswich itself was originally Gippeswicke.
    I also knew the CORAL Sea because I have been looking at the Pacific area on the map recently.
    My dictionary says that BILL as a note is American, and should have been indicated.
    KATSU is surely a loanword. カツ (katsu – cut) or カツレツ (katsuretsu – cutlet). Seems to be written in hiragana sometimes, too.

21. The paper version announces the theme so solving 2d was a doddle. Most of the rest went in readily.

    I did like ISLANDS (for a contemporary reference for once), ALICANTE and TURN (for its wondrous simplicity). Also, I can’t what was unfair about 26a – seems very fair to me.

    Thanks Brockwell and manehi

22. Clever and entertaining crossword from Brockwell. Sadly, I failed to recognise the theme, except for the explicit cross-references. Solving on my smartphone, the grid appears and I just highlight each light, which gives its clue. So I didn’t see the special instructions until I had completed the puzzle. Not for the first time! 🙁 .

    COOTER and CHELONE were new to me – but the clade of reptiles including TURTLEs are known as chelonians, after the Greek for tortoise.

    Lots of favourites, including IGLOO, KATSU, TOUCHÉ, SWAN NECK – plus ADULATORY and ALICANTE for the use of ‘Gaga’ and ‘resort’ other than as anagrinds.

    Thanks to S&B

23. Didn’t know most of the turtles, and nho CRADLE CAP, but my main complaint is that 9a is an atrocious clue. The solution could just as easily have been LAUDATORY, which is also an anagram and is to my mind an equally valid definition for ‘praising’ (in fact I think it’s closer than the actual answer.) This should never have passed review.

24. blaise @16: Ha-ha, very neat!

    Defeated by the Hanks/HAWKS muddle. Unfair in my book, and caused a dnf and an unsatisfied feeling.

25. I believe George ORWELL (Eric Arthur Blair, I have no idea why he adopted that nom de plume) twice lived in Southwold in Suffolk – as is Ipswich and Felixstowe – as a teenager and then again in his thirties. On a wall where the pier begins are several of his quotes, including “He who controls the past controls the future”

26. Gladys@yesterday: I like your ‘lego’ (and @4 today, The Turtles too).
    Bit of a curate’s egg for me today. Some very simple clues with others a struggle. Never saw the link, but now admire Brockwell’s brilliance.
    Thanks to him and manehi

27. 22D I found particularly clever as a scooter is not merely a wheeled vehicle but a 2-wheeled vehicle. I don’t know if there is a word for that kind of cleverness?

    That was a slog for me. It didn’t help that I missed the special instruction and did not spot the theme. I had several unparsed.

28. Some of it did indeed feel a bit of a stretch in the fairness stakes, and neither COOTER nor KATSU are in my Chambers app. VICAR and HAWKS delayed me.

29. Brockwell aka Grecian gives good theme
    Not happy with SOUP as a theme in this day and age
    And fairly ignorant of most of others but I could work most of them out from the excellent clues
    If I had had half an hour longer I might have sussed COOTER which I had never heard of
    and my word finder listed 51 possibilities.
    But nice double duty of 2 in the clue
    Good puzzle-thanks all

30. I also had LAUDATORY for a first pass at 9a, until I realised I was getting nowhere with 1d. However the complaint from poc@23 only makes sense if you believe a solution should be uniquely gettable without having recourse to crossers, which I don’t. So all fine by me.

    Ronald@25 – as you say, Eric Blair lived in Suffolk. I believe it is well attested that he deliberately took his nom de plume from the river. (And George from England’s patron saint.)

31. Remembered Touché Turtle (and his sidekick Dum Dum – a dog). Also could remember his co-stars: Wally Gator (no sidekick)…

32. …and Lippy the Lion (and sidekick Hardy Har Har – a hyena), and their theme songs. Why couldn’t I remember Touché’s theme?

33. Answer: he didn’t have one – the intro is just “Touché away” x 3, and “It’s Touché Turtle!”.
    What were Hanna-Barbera thinking? A cartoon without an earworm? Unheard-of.
    CHELONE is Ancient Greek (χελώνη) for tortoise.

34. Great puzzle. Loved the turtles/Turtles theme for all the turtle references. Top favourite 15d LOGGERHEAD. Even though I couldn’t fully understand a couple (the aforementioned 28a VICAR, 4d TOUCHÉ and 22d COOTER), I had to stand back and admire Brockwell’s clever setting when I finished. Thanks to him for that delicate mix of pleasure and challenge – and to manehi for a very helpful blog.

35. Prodigious setting to get in all the themed entries.

    I Googled World 2 Day and got lots of references to WWII D-day, so that serves me right! I eventually saw the turtles. I liked the wordplays of VICAR, TURTLE, LOGGERHEAD, COOTER, DONATELLO, and NATUROPATH.

    Thanks Brockwell and manehi.

36. and Ipswich in Latin is Gippevicum – back in the top flight next season

37. Hugely impressive stuff to celebrate World Turtle Day, which hopefully raises awareness of turtles and their endangered habitats. This feels especially important as in some mythologies the World-bearing or Cosmic Turtle supports the planet.

    I was delighted to learn some GK, and that by putting ELON inside CHE and beheading sCOOTER I arrived at the correct answers for 22a &d.

    Favourites were the non-thematic VICAR, SINCE and IGLOO.
    Thanks Brockwell and manehi

38. Blaise@16 – neat indeed!

39. At first I wondered whether the special instruction was missing ‘War’. Thankfully, we got the theme fairly quickly so did not go down too many blind alleys on the Flensburg Government and Dönitz’s command which, it seems, were very much in the news on this day in 1945! Know a lot more about the species now than first thing this morning.

40. I enjoyed this greatly, I do like a Brockwell. Tough but it’s all there to parse even without the GK. New to me: chelone, katsu, cooter, and testa. I remember The Turtles from Happy Together, great tune, and by Flo and Eddie’s association with the Mothers of Invention/Frank Zappa. Listened to a lot of Zappa back in the day, he really was a one off. Thanks very much Brockwell and manehi

41. Thanks for the blog, I think the paper could have been a bit more subtle with the introduction, I did notice quite a few but thanks for the great list at the start. Agree with Poc@23 , I put in LAUDATORY straight away and had to rethink when I tried to put the Downs in. Apart from that a very neat set of clues, ISLANDS and LOGGERHEAD are clever constructions.
    (H)ELEN gives her name to the standard unit of beauty , the milliHelen, a face to launch a single ship.

42. I’m disappointed that the puzzle didn’t include, and the comments haven’t mentioned, one of my favourite movies, Turtle Diary, starring Ben Kingsley, Glenda Jackson and Michael Gambon, with a screenplay by Harold Pinter. A wonderful film, sadly not available on DVD.

    I love Roz’s milliHelen, although I can’t see myself using it in conversation.

    Thanks Brockwell for the cleverly themed puzzle, and manehi for the much needed blog.

43. I always solve the paper version so I was expecting turtles from the beginning, even going so far as to recognise LEATHERBACK and LOGGERHEAD as being thematic. I think Brockwell must have intended the Special Instruction to read “World 2 Day” and not “World Turtle Day” as actually printed, otherwise what was the purpose of 2dn ? DONATELLO raised a smile as both of my sons were TMNT aficionados in their younger days. Thanks to manehi and to Brockwell.

44. A whimsical suggestion for another theme word, perhaps?

45. Judge @44

    Lovely. 😉

46. Nice puzzle, very cleverly theme-stuffed.

    I was another temporarily held up by ELEANOR. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, as they say.

    VICAR went in early, was my fave today.

47. Many thanks to Manehi for the blog and to everyone who took the time and trouble to post. Obviously, this one divided opinion. Hopefully, we can all agree that we are lucky to share our planet with these magnificent animals and that we need to do more to protect them. Happy World Turtle Day everyone 🐢

48. Grecian/Brockwell @47: Scrolling back through the posts it seems that the comments are overwhelmingly positive, apart from a few from our resident curmudgeons! Thanks for dropping by, and for an ingenious and entertaining puzzle

49. Thanks Gervase @48. I do tend to be a bit glass half-empty. Really glad that you enjoyed it

50. Grecian, thank you so much for dropping in. I really think from the comments that the vast majority of us enjoyed it. I certainly did. It was undoubtedly harder for those of us who didnt get the paper version but was still solveable. Happy world turtle day to you too. 🐢. Keep doing what you do. I wish I had your skill.

51. My printed version from the website had “In celebration of World 2 Day” as special instruction so I looked online to see what day it was today. Sadly I got it badly wrong as I thought it was Talk Like Yoda Day and only found out at lunchtime that I was 2 days late. Obviously this didn’t help me one bit with this lovely puzzle and neither did misspelling Donatella. I did like vicar despite not being a football fan and didn’t know Orwell was a river. Thank you setter, blogger and all the Pratchett fans.

52. Isn’t an IGLOO shaped like a TURTLE? I had Che as an American revolutionary, so CHELONE as a non-geographically-specific plant. I can’t manage a sentence in which SINCE and “past” are used interchangeably. I have no doubt that one exists. Any suggestions? I was a “laudatory” bunger too, but I’m not complaining. I was hoping for a “mock” to go with the SOUP, but apparently the underlying recipe that mock was aping was GREEN TURTLE SOUP, so we were served the original instead.

53. On my laptop, in the box “Type here to search” is today, guess what, a picture of a turtle – coincidence?

54. I solved KATSU, but only because when I checked SUSHI I was wrong.

    I also got SWAN NECK.

    That was it for me.

55. Hmm, not sure how to post a link, but I was rabbitting down some YouTube wormholes (starting with the Monkees for some reason) when I came upon this

56. Grecian – we thought it was a wonderful crossword. Amazing gridfill, with so many ingeniously linked cross-references to the theme. What a charmingly quirky way to draw attention to and celebrate these beautiful animals. Many thanks!

57. Absolutely wonderful. Always happy to see a Brockwell puzzle. Thanks to Manehi and commenters for further elucidating the theme.

58. What is world 2 day?

59. Can I inquire how acceptability of a word in Guardian puzzles is determined these days?KATSU and COOTER weren’t difficult clues to solve but neither word appears in my (latest) copy of Chambers or (rather older) Collins dictionaries. Or does a word just have to exist “somewhere online”?

60. @HoofIt, the answer to 2 (down) was Turtle. I hope that answers your question.

61. Got it now, nice crossword thanks,

62. Copster @29 – what’s wrong with SOUP?
    Just because turtles have been used to make soup, it doesn’t condone the practice by including the two words, quite separately, in a crossword.

63. I think the problem with 26a, which I complained about in another puzzle earlier this week, is that aesthetically, the wordplay should stand on its own and lead to only one answer once correctly parsed.

    Without the definition you could end up with HACKS or HARKS.

    There is plenty there to lead you to the solution, so as a solver I got it all right, but it seems like an easy build compared to surfaces that have to communicate both the fact that a letter changes, and what letter it changes to.

64. Gervase@22 if you’re still around, thank you for the chelonians. I found chelonians. I found chelintoxism today, and some of the answers are involved. This is interesting in terms of protecting both the turtles and humans.
    Chelonitoxism or chelonitoxication is a type of food poisoning which occasionally results from eating turtles, particularly marine turtles, in the region of the Atlantic, Pacific and Indian Oceans.[1][2] It is considered rare.[3]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelonitoxism

65. OldBertie@59 acceptable because in common usage, or in a dictionary somewhere, or a listed name for an animal? COOTER is in Collins on line, KATSU is Japanese dish widely available (including at Wagamamas)

66. Come on guys! This was a tour de force from start to finish, so many references to the theme, some hidden some not. If all crosswords were easy and we knew all the words, what would be the point – you have the Telegraph crossword for that. A great clue can be parsed by a good solver without knowing or having heard of the solution and then we learn a new word, and our day is made bigger and better. Enough with the whingeing.

67. A day late. Missed the 2/turtle hint, but still much enjoyed.
    Many thanks to the Greek Badger and to Manehi for some explanations.
    ( Cooter was first one in, so there was initial hopes for a Dukes of Hazzard theme.)

68. David@30: I don’t insist that solutions be unique, but there should be a clear preference for one above any others, which is simply not the case here.

69. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle: ‘Modern turtles are divided into two major groups, the Pleurodira (SIDE necked turtles) and Cryptodira (hidden necked turtles).’
    So I think the derriere/bottom half of BACKSIDE is part of the theme, too.
    Also ‘Several species produce foul-smelling chemicals from MUSK glands.’ So “Billionaire” CHELONE is fully present in the puzzle.
    Loved it! – Thanks B&m

70. Dave @53 – Probably not. If your default search engine is Google, they tend to mark significant anniversaries or ‘world days’ with an appropriate image.

71. I assume the Alice in Wonderland reference 7d is because of the mock turtle soup that features in the story?

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