Financial Times 17,759 by BOBCAT

35 comments on “Financial Times 17,759 by BOBCAT”

1. Thanks for the blog, Cineraria; I needed it to resolve a few sticky spots.

   I note that you too thought that the conciliators in 20a should be singular. Hip/fruit & rep/theatre challenged the grey matter. And the parsing of SCHERZI, SCI-FI and REPLETION were beyond me. A cunning use of “professor’s”, and we don’t hear “fie” much these days. Nor did I know of the botanical AARON’S ROD, and DENARII was new to me.

   Attempting this setter’s has on occasion ended in tears, but today’s was achievable and generally enjoyed. Thanks, Bobcat.

2. There’s no typo in 20a now. And 28 says “in vestment”
   In 19a STRIP CLUB I wasn’t thinking “bum” = “buttocks”. Just “bum deals” = rip-offs, for which those clubs were notorious.
   And for 22a HATTERS “crown” = “head”.

3. STRIP CLUB
   Does it have another layer?
   Def1: Where customers expect bum deals (either in the sense FrankieG suggests or in the sense of buttocks or both)
   Def2 (cryptic): Full revelations are demanded from staff (with the ‘staff’ in the sense of ‘club/stick’)
   The entire clue could be read as a cryptic def as well.
   SHOW TRIAL
   ‘While not lacking conviction’: Someone could even be convicted (it’s predetermined as the blog says). I didn’t understand this aspect at first.
   Liked both the above and HATTERS! Also, liked UNBALANCE (I think Cineraria’s second explanation UN’s BALANCE/UN-BALANCE works better because of the order of the words in the clue).

   Thanks Bobcat and Cineraria.

4. The Bum deals in 19a “Strip Club” could be Lap dances…
   No way I would ever have parsed “alibi” even though wrote it in almost immediately… didn’t parse “Repletion” either, so thank you Cineraria
   Hadn’t heard of “Aaron’s rod” or “Scherzi” but figured them out from clue construction…
   Liked this a lot, thank you to Bobcat and Cineraria

5. Yes, ALIBI was another one I wouldn’t have parsed in a million years.

6. Thanks for the blog, very enjoyable with many clever clues .
   I just took DROVE as a misprint, AARON’S ROD has many other names but it does grow everywhere.
   DENARII , the old UK currency, pounds shillings and pence, was often called L S D , yes really. librum solidus denarius .
   ALIBI my favourite for a very neat Playtex.

7. STRIP CLUB
   On second thoughts, it’s just a cryptic def with a misleading surface. In the surface reading, we demand an investigation expecting/suspecting bum deals. In the cryptic reading, it’s as Cineraria read it in the blog originally (With staff=CLUB being part of my routine overthinking).
   SHOW TRIAL
   A similar clue with a misleading surface and a cryptic def (punning on conviction and appeal).

8. Pleased to parse ALIBI. Didn’t parse REPLETION though. Needed help to get DROVE but this was mainly due to the incorrect plural (that’s my excuse and I’m sticking to it) and ESPRIT was my loi. Some nice innovative clueing although I wasn’t mad on the cryptic definitions.
   Bobcat has become one of the harder setters but all the better for it in my opinion.

9. Looks like I’m joining the club who didn’t parse REPLETION and the slightly more exclusive one that failed to parse ALIBI. And, my knowledge of musical terminology coming largely from crosswords, I had to reveal SCHERZI. I was lucky to come to the puzzle after the correction in DROVE. Yes, a bit tougher than many other FT offerings but mainly doable with some very nice clues along the way. STAMPS, ESPRIT, SCI-FI and INCONSIDERABLE were my favourites.

   Thanks Bobcat and Cineraria

10. REPLETION
    Does the ‘bar’ allude to the ‘tennis let’ or ‘LET/hindrance’ in the routine sense? I think this was discussed earlier somewhere in a similar context but I can’t recall what was concluded.

11. Several clues remained unparsed here too. I just do not see the world through the same eyes as this setter. For example, I managed to recognize all the cryptic clues as cryptic, but it took me for ever to sort out their meanings. And I am afraid I still do not really get why it is UNBALANCE and not balanceun

    Thanks Bobcat, with special thanks for a great job to Cineraria

12. Roz@6: The Playtex in 28a ALIBI was another typo – “investment” has been changed to “in vestment” – so online solvers can do it braless.
    KVa@10: Yes, I parsed 15d REPLETION with LET = hindrance = bar, without any need to reference tennis.
    And 21d ESPRIT with E as the bottom = base letter, without any need to reference mathematics, although that works too.
    Maybe the “staff” in 19a STRIP CLUB is a pole for pole dancers?
    Missed the PAWS ‘N’ CLAWS Nina – Is Bobcat advertising a chain of UK pet shops?
    Thanks B&C

13. Martyn@11
    UNBALANCE
    rest of people trying to keep the peace: BALANCE (rest) of UN (people trying to keep the peace)
    This could be read as UN’s BALANCE or UN-BALANCE.
    (I will pay the BALANCE/rest later)

14. That was tough – needed a lot of help (word finder etc) and also some help here to parse a few.

    First one I’ve done I think from this setter.

    Thanks both.

15. Like others, struggled to parse a few of these, so the blog is very helpful. Thanks both.

    A relatively minor niggle: 15d and 19d both include a “to” which seems to be purely for the surface reading and which makes them more misleading, by suggesting a word is a verb when it isn’t. Just me, or did other people have an issue with this as well?

16. KVa@13 thank you. I should have been more explicit @11. I do understand the wording and the theory for UNBALANCE, but the change in order seems too much of a stretch.

17. Tom @15. “To” can have so many meanings, such as ‘beside’ or ‘along with’ (these taken from Chambers). So, not necessary for the cryptic reading but not wrong either.

18. Martyn@16
    UNBALANCE
    Can we not read ‘BALANCE of UN’ as UN BALANCE?

19. Frankie@12 it is a far better clue with investment .
    I am a little surprised that REPLETION caused trouble, the REP and ION bits are clued in the most obvious way .

20. Thanks Bobcat and Cineraria

    28ac: Put me down firmly on the side of those who prefer this clue as “in vestment”. In my view it is a far better clue that way because it actually says what it means.

21. Tom @15 ‘to’ is an old staple that can be used to indicate adjacency, but I take issue with it too. In everyday English it is only used in conjunction with a verb, eg ‘brought to’ to mean brought into contact with. I can’t think of any example where one would say just ‘X to Y’ meaning that X and Y are adjacent. And then as you say it is so misleading – it very much tips the scales in favour of the setter. I remember it being used in Times puzzles many years ago, but don’t think it is any more.

22. Roz @19. I certainly saw the REP bit but was convinced that the ‘to charge’ bit was indicating an inclusion and was never going to equate ‘let’ with ‘bar’. Hindsight’s a wonderful thing. Maybe if I’d thought about it a bit more but was in a bit of a rush. That’s my excuse and I’m sticking to it 🙂

23. James@21 Nose to tail, bumper to bumper. Moreover, Chambers lists “beside” as a meaning of “to”. It’s a juxtaposition indicator which is very commonly used in puzzles and I, for one, see nothing wrong with that.

24. Horrible

    Quit at 50%

    What is the point of a crossword if the cryptic bits are virtually unsolvable?

    Much more to life than trying to work out the answers from the crossers and the definition.

25. I had for 22A “nutters” sted “hatters”, so 19D was very much the last one in. Apart from the typo in the print version of 20A, a great puzzle.

26. Rudolf @23, thanks for those good examples. I admit that with those in mind it seems much clearer. However, I think it counts for something that no such example has ever come to my mind while actually looking at a clue. I know there are dictionary definitions in support (which Hovis @17 said, so I didn’t repeat) and I know it is commonly used (which I said @15). It is also widely avoided, and sometimes barred, eg by the Magpie, whose guide to cluing says:
    ‘“to” (though it can be used to introduce an infinitive) should not be used as a connector or link-word despite some of its Chambers definitions – these do not seem to be natural readings for it in cryptic readings’
    Whatever the justifications, it is very misleading, particularly as here where many other clues use ‘to + infinitive’ as cryptic indicators, and where you are making nouns appear as verbs not by their function in the surface but by the addition of a superfluous word.

27. James @25, please use a different name.

28. James @ 26. I’m aware of the Magpie view as I have co-compiled a couple of puzzles for them and test solve for a member of their editorial team when he is compiling FT puzzles. Although I do, of course, respect the integrity and excellence of that team, and am myself a setter who tries to adhere to Ximenean principles, I do not always agree with the views they take, particularly when there is reputable and authoritative dictionary support to refute them. In the case of the use of “to” that we are discussing, the fact that it can be used in circumstances where it suggests an infinitive for the purposes of the surface reading seems to me to provide an acceptable form of misdirection. I think we can both agree, however, that the aim should be to avoid surplus words as far as possible, but not at the expense of producing garbage surfaces.

29. I agree with Rudolf on this.

30. I agree with Rudolf too. Where do we disagree? Rudolf says to is commonly used and has dictionary support. That was given. I find it misleading because I don’t recognise it as an ordinary connecting word. Tom @15 didn’t recognise it as such either. The Magpie agrees. Their guide is a mixture of principle and preference. In this case they are saying ‘we don’t like it because it seems unnatural’, ie. they are addressing the effect of it, not the justification for it, which Rudolf cannot answer.

    On the examples, which now seem many and obvious – (shoulders, cheeks, backs etc.) – I wonder if the reason for having never thought of them before is because to is only used like that in set phrases, so that out of context the meaning vanishes.

31. Phew – this was hard work but very enjoyable! I was a bit stuck in the SW quadrant until I looked for and saw the cat reference nina; after that everything fell into place quickly.

32. For ‘UNBALANCE”, I took the definition as”Disturb the rest”, i.e. disturb something that is at rest and the wordplay as “of people keeping the peace” i.e. about UN BALANCE.

33. Certainly not easy, but I made it through and thoroughly enjoyed the journey. Thanks Bobcat and thank to Cineraria for a great blog. My favorite was 9D.

34. I very much agree with Tom@15 and James at various places. Very misleading and in a way that meant I felt I could not parse15d properly.

35. The UN is a body where some people who have no interest in peacekeeping deliberately disturb the remainder who are trying to keep the peace. So 17d UNBALANCE is a very clever multi-layered clue.

    Moly@24, was the crossword horrible or was your experience trying to solve it horrible? Those can be two quite different things.

    Thanks Bobcat and Cineraria for the entertainment.

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