Guardian Cryptic 29,498 by Imogen

88 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 29,498 by Imogen”

1. Reasonably easy, but witty and enjoyable. Favourite was AITCH.
   I came here not expecting a blog yet, but by the time I finished reading the rest of yesterday’s comments it was up.
   Thanks both.

2. I had to look up COTTA which was a bit of a Jorum for me. Otherwise this yielded slowly and steadily. I raised an eyebrow at Oval for test in REMOVAL but I think it’s OK (with the ?) as an informal way of referring to a test match. In TOMBSTONE, I think summertime is BST (British Summer Time) not just ST.

3. I found this less of a struggle than some past Imogens. Particularly liked GO METRIC and REMOVAL (I saw ELP at the Oval back in the day, but that didn’t work).

   I get the play on GATES, but it doesn’t seem to exactly fit any of the normal cryptic clue types, does it?

4. I usually don’t attempt Imogen’s but I did today and found it enjoyable, especially after yesterday’s trial. I’d not heard of a cotta, and I’ve not been doing cryptics long enough to understand 23a.

5. Liked GO METRIC, TELEGENIC, W B T BOARD, NOT WITH IT and COTTA.

   NOT WITH IT
   Is it better to read it as ‘every fool avoiding smack’ (in essence every fool avoided/no fool hit (or got hit)
   =’NO TWIT HIT’?
   REMOVAL
   Should we read the ”s taken to test match?’ as ‘is at the Oval’? REM is at (the) Oval–does it work?
   GATES
   How does the ‘what Bill has’ part work? GATES to protect GATES’s mansion but someone may explain
   how the first part works.

   Thanks Imogen. Nice puzzle.
   Tanks PeterO. Great blog as usual.

   Edit: Read Tim C’s and DrWhatsOn’s posts after posting mine.

6. GATES
   Or is it just Bill=GATES
   & the whole clue a CD?

7. Yes, I think 6 is just a (fairly obvious) CD. I don’t see a problem with it. I think the blogger’s description of the puzzle is correct. Not entirely straightforward, but nothing too obscure. I’m sure I only know COTTA from previous crosswords, though. Others have mentioned that it’s BST for ‘sumertime’ in TOMBSTONE. Liked GO METRIC (my LOI despite having a maths degree, oops!), AITCH and BAG LADY. Thanks to IMOGEN and PeterO

8. On the easier side but chock-full of excellent clues with lots of smiles. I also don’t have a problem with REMOVAL and other favourites were SECOND MORTGAGE, GO METRIC, AITCH, EARACHE, MUGSHOT, GASTROPUB and BAG LADY. All smooth and parsable, a lovely workout.

   Ta Imogen & PeterO.

9. A slowish but steady solve. Like Tim C@2 I struggle with OVAL for “taken to test match” even with the question mark, but it’s the Grauniad… Nice to have normal service resumed.

10. Fairly gentle for an Imogen puzzle. Like PeterO, I sorely miss Arachne’s witty puzzles: even her alter-ego elsewhere, Rosa Klebb, doesn’t appear nearly often enough for me.

11. Coincidentally BAY sits as a Nina across BAG LADY.

12. Yes, this felt like an extremely welcome return to normality after yesterday. Many thanks Imogen and PeterO…

13. Not straightforward, but (mostly) not fiendish. I revealed COTTA, new for me, but I realise I could/should have got it from the parsing.

    All welcome after yesterday’s.

14. All very pleasant, thank you Imogen & PeterO

15. Great fun. I seem to be in the minority in knowing a COTTA – which vary from very plain to almost all lace – generally the more lace, the spikier the church.

    I didn’t parse EARACHE, but Arachne is still occasionally setting in the FT, there was a Rosa Klebb a couple of Saturdays ago.

    Thank you to Imogen and PeterO.

16. Back to a good plain competent crossword, difficult and witty enough to be interesting, though Imogen can be much harder than this. I liked most of these, particularly NO TWIT HIT, MUGSHOT, AITCH, GO METRIC, GATES and BOTSWANA.

    I didn’t parse EARACHE despite being a fan of the much-missed Arachne: that was one for the in-crowd only. Didn’t think ST on its own was a legit abbreviation for summertime: it must be BST. I wasted some time trying to make COTTA be HASTA or VISTA (baby) before sorting out the item from the priest’s wardrobe. Thanks Imogen and PeterO.

17. I liked GO METRIC and AITCH, but thought TELEGENIC and GATES were a bit uninspiring. A very enjoyable solve, though.

18. I have enjoyed Arachne’s puzzles, and am happy for setters to take a very broad view of the general knowledge needed to solve a puzzle. But the fact that Arachne has compiled crosswords for the Guardian, which is required to solve 23A, isn’t general knowledge; it’s insider knowledge. Fine occasionally to have a one-off puzzle to celebrate one of the great setters like Araucaria or Rufus, and signal it accordingly . Not fine to stick in a casual reference in a routine clue. It’s one of the very few areas where I think an informal approach to cluing standards lapses into self indulgence.

19. GO METRIC is brilliant — our favourite for quite some time. We liked AITCH too.

20. I was wondering if I’d missed out on a film or TV series featuring a cat called Tom Bone to explain the B in TOMBSTONE, so thanks Tim C @2 for the explanation. I’m currently on CEST myself, but sometimes forget the time difference, so (fortunately) missed the first bit of Liverpool’s match yesterday.
    Incidentally, my sister was a stoma nurse, so when people asked what she did for a living she used to say “I’m a bag lady.” The usual reaction: “Oh, you poor thing!”

21. I was well worried by 1d SATISFACTORY’s ‘worried well‘ – Why the single quotes? Answer: It’s an idiom I hadn’t come across before:
    ‘1970– (With the and plural agreement) people who are excessively and unnecessarily concerned about their physical or mental health, regarded as a class.’

22. Agree with KVa@5 on 3d NOT WITH IT that it’s better to take “every fool avoiding smack” = NO TWIT HIT;
    and with TimC@2, that the ‘summertime’ needs to be British. The EU is in the process of abolishing it, apparently.

23. Thanks Imogen and PeterO
    Very good. I particularly liked NO TWIT HIT, which I saw as KVa above.
    Only quibble is EARACHE. Arachne (though my favourite setter) hasn’t been seen here for far too long, and what is the “in” doing?

    [I was late to yesterday’s, so there were already about 90 comments by the time I finished. Is it worth wading through the now 131 ones for insights to the puzzle? btw I enjoyed the programme much more than I expected.]

24. I loved this crossword (I enjoyed yesterday’s too) and it was a nice return to steady but imaginative cluing. No giveaways but no impossibles either.

    Disagree that using a piece of obstruse knowledge (a crossword Setter’s pseudonym) invalidates a good puzzle. Apart from the most basic all knowledge is esoteric to some. One of the bases of solving is the use and manipulation of strange words and usages. But like all comments here; mine is purely personal

    Thanks Imogen and Peter

25. [Muffin@23. In my opinion? Probably not. It might be depressing to read those comments where people got a bit personal with their displeasure]

26. Very enjoyable puzzle.

    Favourites: REMOVAL, EARACHE (and I would love to do a puzzle by Arachne soon), RUSTING, AITCH, NOT WITH IT, SELFISH.

    New for me: PRECONCERTED, COTTA.

    Thanks, both.

    I parsed NOT WITH IT in the same way as KVa@5.

27. Muffin @23 is EARACHE an “in pain” as it’s internal to the ear? Could a bruised knee be an “out pain”? I may be overthinking this

28. If the “in pain” were at the end of the clue, we would read “in” as a fairly standard link word. Somehow it doesn’t seem quite right at the beginning.

29. Blaise @20, I’m currently on AEST but that will change on 6 Oct which will mess with me as it will mean the Grauniad crossword will only appear at 11 am (at which time I will be very much looking forward to my morning coffee to attempt with the crossword), not to mention that the blogs on here will be much later (and possibly past) my bedtime.
    muffin @23, “in” is just an indication of what the definition in the clue is in assistance to the surface of the clue.

30. [24d took me back sixty years to when I served time as an altar boy. We had to put on a long black buttoned cassock, with a white SMOCK-like COTTA on top.
    The priests didn’t wear them. They had elaborate colourful vestments with a big XP on the back (that I later found out were Chi (χ) and Rho (ρ).
    I served Mass (in Latin, which, at the time, was all Greek to me), every day and twice on Sundays. So that’s The Beatles’
    Eight Days A Week (1964, a 60th (Diamond) anniversary).
    I grew up to be a devout atheist, but one who’s sure to go heaven, after all those masses of Masses.]
    Thanks I&PO

31. EARACHE
    The surface needs the ‘in’. And in the cryptic reading, as Tim C says @29, It becomes:
    In ‘the def’, ‘the WP’. I’ve seen this format used in a few puzzles.
    The def in the WP format seems to be a standard one.
    And ‘the WP in the def’ is another format (not sure which one is more acceptable among
    the two).
    The third format used in this clue may become equally acceptable one of
    these days.

32. [TimC@29: we’ll get three weeks of the crossie appearing at 10am before the Poms finish BST.]
    I found this fairly tough, but gradually pieced it all together. Once the penny dropped, I could see that the cluing was fair: GO METRIC was especially sweet. I wanted to enter COTTA for quite a while before I finally turned it up as a real word. Thanks, Imogen and PeterO.

33. [Yes TassieTim @32, the few weeks changeover period. It goes all too quickly]

34. Good solid traditionally-built puzzle.

    Good to be reminded of Arachne (who I presume has fallen out with the Guardian editor, since she still sets for other papers) even though the in-joke will be lost on many solvers – and I’m relaxed about the positioning of the linker ‘in’, as KVa @31 explains.

    I enjoyed NOT WITH IT (parsed as KVa et al), GO METRIC, the long anagrams and surfaces for SECOND MORTGAGE and SATISFACTORY, and GASTROPUB created a nice image.

    Thanks to Imogen and PeterO

35. Was hesitant about RUSTING as to me the natural equivalent of ‘contacted’ would be ‘rang’. He rang, he had rung. Am I wrong? Nho COTTA.

36. 3d. got the answer but in the explanation, exactly what does ‘charade’ mean ?

37. Thanks Imogen and PeterO

    poc @ 35 “I was contacted / rung by…”.

38. TimC @29, KVa the clue then is “In (the word EARACHE, substituted by its definition), the wordplay is this”. OK I get that

39. phil elston @36: Charade is the term used for a clue which contains fragments that need to be pieced together to form the solution – as in the game ‘charades’.

40. Thank you !

41. Something of a relief after yesterday. I really liked GO METRIC, TIMETABLE and GASTROPUB. My favourite was AITCH. SELFISH took me far too long… Many thanks to Imogen and PeterO.
    [FrankieG@12 & 30 thanks for the GK and the memory].

42. I like the idea of toast being classed as a health food😀

43. Tomsdad@7 You are not the only recovering mathematician embarrassed by 9A.

    Overall an enjoyable challenge, especially after yesterday (about which no more shall be said).

    Like others, NHO COTTA but the cluing was straightforward enough that I was able to assemble a potential solution and then verify it was a real word.

    Thanks Imogen and PeterO

44. COTTAs (cottae?) are (as far as I know) only worn by Catholic priests, so those from other denominations or religions probably won’t have met them. Anglicans wear something similar but call it a surplice.

45. Very enjoyable. A nice challenge, but I never felt overwhelmed by the parsing, which remained achievable. COTTA was new for me, but I figured it’d be COT then when the A went in I reasoned “so long” would be Ta-ra, and I snuck home. I liked REMOVAL, and TIMETABLE was clever too. Thanks Imogen, and thanks PeterO for the blog.

46. Did anybody else try to make the divided country in 20a Korea? Anybody try to work in HYPOCHONDRIA(c) for the worried well in 1d?

    Where is the definition for AITCH? (We don’t spell it that way in the US, just write H.)

    Didn’t know about BST. I put in ST, but where did the B come from? We don’t call any of our time zones American anything.

    Lots of fun. Thanks to Imogen and PeterO.

47. Valentine@46: yes, I wondered about Korea as a possibility.

48. Before I came here today, I thought I’d finally cracked this game by completing in Imogen in good time. Sadly, it turns out it’s an easy Imogen.

    I liked TOAST, MUGSHOT and the nicely surfaced TIMETABLE, but the whole puzzle was very enjoyable.

    EARACHE – I don’t personally care for references to setters past and present in clues, not because it’s obscure but because it’s too self-referential and a bit exclusive (literally “you will not be able to understand this wordplay unless you’ve previously completed a number of Guardian crosswords”).

49. Valentine @46: the definition for AITCH is ‘this’ – unusually the solution is also part of the clue.

    British Summer Time to distinguish it from daylight saving adjustments in other time zones – of which we only have one. It is a name dating from a period when other countries didn’t make a summer change, and in any case Portugal is the only other country in the same time zone to have a summer variant. North American time zone names are shared between the USA and Canada, of course.

50. gladys@44: In my experience the reverse is true. I was dragged up Catholic, when it was always called a surplice. I learnt the word cotta from an AN WIlson novel satirising the camper end of the Cof E.

51. Gervase@49 don’t forget Ireland – they use Irish Standard Time in the summer.

52. [Goujeers @50: My upbringing was mainstream Anglican, neither happy-clappy nor smells-and-bells, but COTTA did ring a faint one of the last for me 🙂 ]

53. Judge @49: Whoops! Very sorry. My only possible excuse is that (I think) Ireland was still British when BST was first introduced.

54. AITCH
    (I parsed it as Petero. Just attempting to parse it one other way…)
    tHis at the start=t—>dropping t from tHis, I (I am AITCH) slipped into (the) opening
    (position of His). In this case, the def is ‘I’.
    Convoluted?

55. Tough. Slow start, gave up, went back and struggled through to the bitter end. Had to Google if COTTA was a thing and if PRECONCERTED matched the definition.
    Relieved to complete.
    Thanks both.

56. This was a nice, slow, steady solve. I agree that using names of other setters makes this whole thing feel a bit clique-y, and it happens too often for my taste. I also did raise an eyebrow at “in pain”–the rule is and should be that the definition may always be found at one of the two ends (or in the case of a double def, both ends).

    [Here, S in time zone names stands for standard (winter) time; greetings from CDT (Central Daylight Time), where it’s 8:39 a.m.]

57. As usual, I found this fairly tough.

    My picks were SECOND MORTGAGE, GO METRIC, AITCH (clever!), and SATISFACTORY. Mrpenney@56; it’s not a hard and fast rule. I have occasionally seen a definition in the middle of a clue, which gives a bit of variety/misdirection. Setters quite often use ‘in’ as a linker for definition [found] in wordplay, although some others also use it for wordplay in definition as well.

    Thanks Imogen and PeterO.

58. mrpenney @56
    Yes, as a rule the definition in a clue appears at one end or the other – but only in the common use of the expression “as a rule’; generally, it is difficult to write a sensible clue with the definition in the middle, but here we have two examples.

59. “ignored by son” in TIMETABLE doesn’t seem quite right for cryptic grammar to me. “son ignored” would be ok. AITCH and SECOND MORTGAGE my favourites here.

60. I agree with @59 Dave, the ‘ignored by son’ didn’t make strict clueing sense to me, but otherwise enjoyed this crossword a lot, as I did Ludwig’s yesterday for its theme and its energy. (Enjoyed the BBC episode too, despite its constant use of cheap jarring sampled strings in the soundtrack – what a relief when a REAL orchestra played the Ninth at the end). Respectfully (because I always like his comments!) I disagree with @56 mrpenney: if that were a rule it would just encourage quasi-Quick Crossword solving, knowing that one of the two ends of the clue is straight definition. Imogen skilfully avoids that danger with the occasional use of this type of clue, hiding the straight definition; not just ‘legal’ but surely to be encouraged? Thanks Imogen and PeterO!

61. Gervase @53: Part of it still is, though a vocal minority there may quibble on the point.

62. Frankie G@30[ My experience with COTTAs was the same as yours, though not eight times a week, and yes, the priest wore an alb and chasuble. I thought I’d mention that in case they turned up in a crossword too.
    I turned out the same way as you as well.]

63. D&A @59&60 perhaps if you think of “ignored by son” as “son didn’t get involved” it makes more sense?

    Really enjoyed this although I needed a killer sudoku break mid-way through. After which it all fell into place and the impenetrable became penterable

    Laughed out loud when the GO METRIC penny finally dropped

    No qualms about the inclusion of Arachne – every one doing this crossword is by definition a Guardian crossword solver so only the subset of newer solvers would be perplexed but also, if they care to browse the archives, introduced to a very fine setter

    Cheers P&I

64. Enjoyed the puzzle. GASTROPUB was very nicely done.
    Thanks, I & P.
    Gladys@44,
    “[Anglicans] call it a surplice”. Is that because there are too many of them? (Cue Boom Boom + Basil Brush laugh 😆).

65. Thanks for the blog, good to see a proper well-set puzzle. GO METRIC and TOMBSTONE are excellent . I am on the side of those not impressed by EARACHE , alienating for newer solvers who have no chance with the wordplay .

    The theme refers to the classic episode of Rainbow where Bungle has to go undercover in the safari park pretending to be a fish and nobody spots the deception.

66. A rather too slow but all the same very enjoyable solve, much less checking and word searching than yesterday, a few in the east held me up for much longer than they ought.

    Roz @65…very droll!

    Thanks to Imogen and PeterO

67. Taffy@ 66 , slightly more plausible than the episode of Ludwig, I suspect that the writer did it for a bet , who could get the least believable story past the BBC .

68. Roz
    I think you are confusing “plausible” with “entertaining” 🙂

69. A rich entertainment and all has been said/argued so thanks to both and all.

    I solved online and had the unhappy experience of deciding (FOI) that 15a ‘Good to goggle at?’ must be one of a pair of ‘SPECTACLE’s but no, the surprising TELEGENIC scuppered me straightway and meant a dns (even)!

    PRECONCERTED was a surprising jorum. TOAST was a clue I could back-pocket for the enticement of non-solving friends; it made me chuckle.

    Fwiw BST in Ireland (my impression) is never mentioned and if it is it’s ‘daylight saving’ that is used. But I’m open to correction.

    muffin@23: I name-checked you yesterday@67 because I thought of you.

    FrankieG@30: Always enjoy your reflections. A propos of which it has been on my mind recently that the word ‘atheist’ exists but there is no word for those who don’t believe in, eg, fairies. extra-terrestrials, Rudolph. trickle-down economics and so forth. For this reason I refuse to use the word as it implies the reverse of itself.

    Roz@65: Bungle? Do you have any of those pills to spare? 🙂

70. Alphalpha @69 Bungle pretending to be a fish and nobody noticing is more plausible and entertaining than the episode of Ludwig , I love the BBC but if this what their drama has come to they may as well pack up .

71. [Alphalpha @69
    Yes, I responded @150 (!) on yesterday’s thread.)

72. Can I please ask…are there any anagrams?

    I haven’t looked at the blog but I don’t have any way in to this puzzle!

73. Hi Steffen
    12a is a complex anagram
    18 ditto
    2d is a straight anagram, though the solution is pretty obscure
    3d a complex anagram

74. [Stephen @72, the best I can offer is 16D, but the ‘fodder’ is either side of ‘and’ and the answer (1st two words) requires some UK general knowledge. It’s a good puzzle but with a medium+ strength]

    [Roz @70 I didn’t watch it but skimmed through a puff piece on the BBC. Seems the theme will be puzzles in general from what I could work out, so maybe not so many Ludwigs to come]

    [Alphalpha @69, I too had religion beaten into me as a child (qf Woody Allen) and when I asked I use a term coined by Christopher Hitchens – antitheist.]

75. Ignore mine, steffen – wrong crossword

76. Thanks Muffin…I genuinely thought I was going bonkers there!

77. Good to back to normal after yesterday. Excellent, neat clues. Tricky, but got there in the end.
    I particularly enjoyed GO METRIC and GASTROPUB.
    Thanks both.

78. [Steffen @72. 1D is another. The last word is the answer but think more of just OK. The fodder at the front, the anagrid is worried.]
    Apologies for spelling your name wrong previously.

79. Steffan @76 – 1d, if you solve it, gives you lots of 1st letters.

80. Steffen – 1D is an anagram, fairly straightforward to find, 1a is partly an anagram with an inclusion.

81. I think that those who object to the Arachne reference in 23a EARACHE are missing out. To elaborate on bodycheetah’s point @63, (a) if you are familiar with Arachne the setter, solving the clue will give you a nice warm glow, and (b) if you aren’t, and you read the blog and subsequent comments, you will learn who she is and discover her puzzles in the Guardian archives, which would make this clue one of the best TILTs you could possibly have.

    Thanks, Imogen for that warm glow and for a fun puzzle. My favourites were the aforementioned EARACHE and the clever 13a AITCH. My TILT today was 24d COTTA, very nicely clued.

    Thanks also to PeterO for the excellent blog.

82. Thanks guys. Nothing has twigged yet. I’ll try again tomorrow.

83. Cellomaniac @81 you missed out option (c) – shrug and think the Guardian is talking to itself again and decide not to bother in future .
    I help about a dozen people at work with puzzles, if I suggested they look at a crossword blog they would think I was nuts , if I suggested the archive ( I presume this is online only ) they would roll their eyes . People are just not that interested , they just want to have a little go at the crossword in the paper.
    Clues like this simply put off people who are not part of the in-crowd and that is the majority .

84. When I was a university Admissions Tutor, it seemed as though all applicants ran Brownie or Cub Packs, taught in Sunday Schools, served at the altar & or sang in a Church Choir. So I am staggered by how few of you knew “Cotta” – probably as few as know its longer version “surplice ” – don’t think I have ever seen that as an answer

85. Very much enjoyed this one, especially my foi GO METRIC (why yes, I did use to be a Maths teacher).

    I rarely quibble (I’m happy with a bit of vagueness here & there if the clue is solvable)but I agree with Roz et al – I don’t think it’s fair to use the name of another setter as part of the wordplay.

86. All enjoyable even if not solved. Aitch is superb!

87. I seem to be the only one who sees toast = health as a stretch. You may toast someone’s good health but…

88. Giles @87
    Chambers: health n sound physical or mental condition; soundness; condition of wholesomeness; wellbeing; state with respect to soundness;; a toast.

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