Guardian 29,513 / Maskarade

83 comments on “Guardian 29,513 / Maskarade”

1. I parsed A HEAD FOR FIGURES as referring to the male strippers, the Chippendales, although I’m not sure they’re still around.

   Thank you to Eileen and Maskarade.

2. Thanks Masquerade and Eileen

   With Cardiff, Land of My Fathers, and incur I thought there might be a mini theme. But nothing more .

   Great crossword – a little tougher than some Monday’s but very enjoyable

3. Shanne @ 1 – yes, I know (of) the Chippendales but still can’t really see the definition.

4. Chippendales in 9ac referring to the scantily clad male dance troupe, whose figures you would perhaps assess whilst they auditioned.

5. 21ac was a nice surprise when I worked out what was happening. Just right for a Monday. Thanks Maskarade and Eileen.

6. RR @4 – I thought of something like that but ‘an eye for figures’ would then make more sense (but then it wouldn’t!).
   I

7. Unsurprisingly, I’ve never heard of Royal Ulster Constabulary. Nor Chippendales. And it took me a while to remember why a diet is a conference.

   I’ve spent quite some time in Italy over the years but never come across Otranto.

8. I thought Otranto as a city was a bit of a stretch. English Wiki has it as a ‘coastal town’ and ‘ It is one of I Borghi più belli d’Italia (“The most beautiful villages of Italy”).’. However, my Italian correspondent tells me that Italian Wiki has it as a ‘citta’ so I conceded.
   Otherwise, a perfect Monday workout. Thanks Maskarade and Eileen

9. Nice one, with good constructions and surfaces. The definition for A HEAD FOR FIGURES is very tangential, and I can’t quite work out UNCONSUMED, with or without a typo, except for the homophone – but at least that works, as does ROE DEER.

   Didn’t we see an almost identical clue for UFOS recently? OT(RAN)TO is a clever spot. This town in Puglia is not the first Italian city to come to mind – it’s most famous for its castle, as in Walpole’s Gothic novel.

   Some beautiful clues here – PURCHASES, INCUR, THEE, INGREDIENT, SWIVELLED. If there is a micro theme, it’s the pairing of CARDIFF with Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau 🙂

   Thanks to Maskerade and Eileen

10. Is 13 down a reverse homophone?

11. Matthew N @2: We crossed with the ‘theme’!

12. Gervase @9 re UFOS – yes, as I commented: I didn’t want to be more specific, as some people may still have it in their ‘to-do’ folder. 😉

13. A HEAD FOR FIGURES is needed when holding auditions for the Chippendales.
    IRENE (and so nice to see a name not clued as just “girl” even though I’m guilty of that myself) is where the word irenic (peaceful) comes from.
    I never could spell FRIESIAN so that held me up a bit.
    Here’s LAND OF MY FATHERS to give you goosebumps.

14. I liked most of this but hide(ous) was a stretch too far for me and I’ve never heard of Otranto so technically, although I got the solutions right, I count this as a DNF.

15. I was really impressed with the quality of the first two clues I solved this morning, PURCHASED and PLAZA. And thereafter thought the puzzle a pleasure to tackle throughout. Though 13d was rather a bizarre bit of clueing, notwithstanding (now, there’s a word) the obvious typo. INGREDIENT another splendid clue to add to the mix…

16. 13d alter ego is a secondary personality, so unconsumed is a synonym, if you like, of none eaten

17. Benbow @16 – that’s what I intended to convey in the blog.
    (I once, for fun, composed a cryptic quiz of names of towns and included something very similar – ‘Why were there so many sandwiches left?’, as I recall.)

18. I thought this was a lovely puzzle to start the week – and with good surfaces.

    Lots to like but particularly: ORIENTATE, THEE, PLAZA, AVER

    Thanks Maskarade and Eileen

19. I bunged in AREA for 10a and it just about works – A REA(LLY), with “state” being an area of a country. But I agree AVER is better.

    Some nice clues. INCUR was clever, and ROE DEER raised a smile.

    Thanks Maskarade and Eileen.

20. Tough and enjoyable challenge. I would not recommend this to beginners.

    Loved 7d as that is where I am at the moment 😉

    New for me: DIETS=conferences/meetings; SCOW = boat/dinghy; anthem of Wales = LAND OF MY FATHERS.

    I did not parse 13d.

    Favourite: OTTO (loi).

    Thanks, both.

21. I always enjoy Maskerade puzzles, although I’m less keen on some of his more tortuous and arcane offerings around Bank Holidays (Although – blows own trumpet – I did actually win a prize for one of them back in the days when I used to bother submitting entries).
    This was no exception, although, unusually, I do have a couple o f quibbles.
    Nothing wrong in my book with 21ac THEE, even though it did flout the crossword protocol of having the definition at one end of the clue or the other.
    At least it did have a discernible one, which is more than can be said o f 13dn UNCONSUMED. I could see the answer from the cross letters and I understand how ‘none eaten’ is somehow ‘unconsumed’, but if that’s all there is to it, then I can’t help but feel it’s a bit limp. I’m still not entirely sure I ‘m not missing a trick here, mind.
    Likewise, 8ac A HEAD FOR FIGURES. If it as as simple as meaning the appreciation of male strippers’ physiques, then I reckon that’s a bit too oblique in the context. Just my opinion.
    Particularly liked OTTO, INCUR and ROE DEER.
    Thanks Maskerade for a fun puzzle and Eileen for an illuminating blog.

22. Eileen @12: Sorry – I missed that when skimming your (typically wonderful) blog.

    Re OTRANTO – it is pronounced with the stress on the first syllable: Òtranto, like some other Pugliese towns – Brìndisi, Tàranto…

23. [Earworm for 25a Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau (1856, with karaoke subtiles, so we can all sing along)]

24. FrankieG @23: I like ‘subtiles’. Subtle subtitles?

25. My heart usually sinks when I see this setter’s name on a crossword, but I kept plodding away and, suddenly, the grid was full.

    I justified the Chippendales clue with the dance troupe but not frightfully impressed with it, still. Never really associate the male form with figure I suppose.

    Never heard of Otranto so bifd in OTTO in hope.

    Admired FRIESIAN and the clever THEE.

    Many thanks, both.

26. Eileen @ 17 Is there any chance you could send me a copy of your cryptic towns’ quiz please. It sounds like the sort of thing my family would appreciate at Christmas.
    And many thanks for all your blogs.

27. Walpole’s ‘The Castle of Otranto’ is said to be the first gothic novel, but that’s the only time I’ve heard of the city, if indeed it is one (the Italian word can mean either city or town).

    The (apparent) cryptic definition at 9a is so oblique as to make no sense. Otherwise the puzzle was a good deal gentler than Maskarade’s usual offerings.

28. 19d ACHIEVE: Minerva – (Roman equivalent of Athena) – ‘…goddess of wisdom, justice, law, victory…’ – so “desire to win” is nice.
    [13d UNCONSUMED: as an ex-altAr boy, I (Ego – the masses were in Latin) thought “altEr Ago” must be a naff kind of Spoonerism.]

29. Just to be contrary, I’ll say that this was too liberal for my taste; the redundant “at” in the surface for IRENE, the “it’s” in that for ORIENTATE (loosely justifiable), “to” as a linking word in that for EXPENSE, the clue construction for THEE (doesn’t work, and not just for the unconventional positioning) ..

    Then there was the disappointing UNCONSUMED (the alter ego would be all-consumed, surely) and AHFF (what Eileen@6 says), and clues such as OTTO which felt a bit meh due to needing to guess first and parse afterwards. Maybe I just wasn’t in the right mood for it today!

    Still, there’s always something to enjoy, and this morning’s favourites were ROE DEER and INCUR.

    Thanks both!

    [Edit to acknowledge cross-post with other recent comments expressing similar views.]

30. Lord Jim @19 I too had AREA. Thought it a bit weak but it technically works. Funnily enough one of my sons was asking me yesterday if it was possible to have two valid solutions to a cryptic crossword.
    Very enjoyable, even if I did raise an eyebrow at OTTO. Otranto is pretty obscure GK in my view, but having guessed at Bismarck from the crossers it wasn’t hard to Google all the possible places where RAN might go and I never object to learning something new. Population of 5,000 would hardly seem to justify “city”, but as observed above it seems to be valid. Thanks both!

31. I’m probably biased against Maskarade as he’s the reason I have to shell out for the FT every bank holiday. Not as pub-quizzy as some of his efforts and I had ticks for INCUR, SWIVELLED & ESPRESSO

    Otranto was a location in a movie I watched recently – I’d looked it up as it was charming so a lucky break there

    I thought THEE was poor – I don’t mind seeing conventions flouted but there needs to be some justification and, for me, that was lacking in this case – not really sure what the “given” added either

    Cheers E&M

32. WynnD @66 – oh, so sorry to disappoint: it was about sixty years ago! I cringe to think about the number of dreadful puns and homophones there were but that’s about the only one I remember: it’s only about twenty miles away from here. You’re right, though – it was just about Christmas cracker joke level. I’m sure you could write one yourself. 😉

33. [ Fiery@30, your son may enjoy a Boatman puzzle from 2016 with two possible outcomes predicting the two possible results of the EU referendum. See here
    …cheers, jono ]

34. [Obvs I@23 meant subtile ‘… I.4. a1393– Of the nature of or involving careful discrimination or fine points; †difficult to understand, abstruse (obsolete)…’
    Glad you noticed the subtilties, Gervase@24.😉 (No, it was just another typo)]

35. Fairly straightforward start to the week. I tried A HEAD FOR numbers at first but couldn’t parse it.

    I liked the rowed ‘ere and SWIVELLED. I had heard of Otranto and it’s in the ODE and Collins under Strait of Otranto. I did try to fit an anagram of ‘ago’ into 13 before I realised that this was probably a Grauniadism.

    Thanks Maskarade and Eileen

36. I also had AREA for 10ac.

    I enjoyed this puzzle, but was confused/irritated by (what seems to me) a lack of a definition for UNCONSUMED.

    Loved the ‘definition in the middle’ of 21ac. And now, thanks to Maskerade, I have a way of remembering how to spell ‘friesian’.

37. I was concerned for beginner solvers when I saw Maskarade’s name, but it’s rather more approachable than his Bank Holiday specials. Rattled through it, but there are many clever clues that will appeal to solvers across the range. Though I’m another with AREA, justified as A + REA(LLY), so I mustn’t be too smug.
    [Not long ago I was possibly the only Englishman at a male voice choir concert in the church of a small Welsh village. At the end, the vicar announces that, as is custom, all will now stand and sing the Welsh national anthem. It was, of course, in Welsh. As I mouthed along, I thought how lucky the Welsh were to have a stirring anthem that celebrates the nation.]

38. I did read ‘The Castle of Otranto’ at uni but can’t remember a thing about. I liked INCUR a lot, although I was on the opposite end of them, sometimes as a teenager. SWIVELLED and ESPRESSO were also nice. Having solved IRENE, I wondered if Eileen has ever been a solution? Come on someone….

    Ta Maskarade & Eileen.

39. AlanC @38 – several times, actually.
    I treasure Picaroon’s ‘Woman I’m inclined to listen to’.

40. I entered RESTS at 22d, thinking “stops blowing top” was (ar)RESTS, which left me with an uncompleted _H_R at 21a. Apart from that it all fell into place fairly easily.

41. I liked ROE DEER and FRIESIAN
    But Chippendale to me would suggest “Chair in maths”or a nifty clue about cabinet making (with a political twist)
    And was “audition” another typo for “auction:”
    This could have been OK with an editor!

42. [AlanC @38 – Eileen has not only been a solution but has been a theme! Arachne 27,561, 14 July 2018.]

43. bodycheetah @31: I disagree with THEE 🙂 There’s no reason whatever why the definition has to be at one end or other of the clue, other than the relative difficulty of constructing it. Here it works well, IMHO. And ‘given hiding’ is nicely misleading – for the surface it seems ‘given a beating’ but for the wordplay it is ‘given a place to hide’, using ‘hiding’ as a gerund.

44. Gervase@43 … but it doesn’t work because the cryptic grammar doesn’t make any sense (though the surface itself does).

    The problem isn’t the position of the literal (it’s fine for the literal to be part of a longer definitional phrase). Rather, it’s that “X《literal》given hiding” is meaningless. It would need to be something like “X《literal》hiding therein” but of course then the surface doesn’t work. Sure, 《literal》is indeed given, hiding – but there’s no connection back to X in the current surface.

45. I was also puzzled by 9a, which I solved from definition. But I just thought, maybe what is meant is AHEAD FOR FIGURES ie those auditioning would have better figures (physiques).
    I mostly enjoyed this puzzle, ended up using it to show my 9yo grandson some elements of cryptic solving. He liked PURCHASES and PLAZA. I also liked ROE DEER and INGREDIENT.
    Didn’t get OTTO or UNCONSUMED. I also tried AREA for 10a but AVER is much better.
    Thanks Maskarade and Eileen.

46. Alan @38 I’m sorry that ‘Otranto’ left no lasting impression on you. However, I guess a career of chasing down flesh-and-blood villains may have eclipsed the more spectral menaces of the gothic novel. As a fully-paid-up Gothicist, I used to haul my students through ‘Otranto’, two novels by Ann Radcliffe, including all 660 pages of The Mysteries of Udolpho (which did very much enhance their reading of Northanger Abbey), Lewis’s notorious The Monk, and various other macabre specimens of the genre. I wonder how much they remember even 15-20 years on.

47. AP @44: From Chambers:

    hidˈing noun
    1. Concealment
    2. A place of concealment

    Sense 2, unusual though it is, works fine for the wordplay

48. Gervase@47, I stand corrected. Taking the second sense, “given hiding” becomes “given refuge” as opposed to “given, hiding” and the clue does indeed work. Thank you!

49. myself@48 …. Actually I’m not sure I like “X《literal》given refuge” much more than “X《literal》given, hiding”. It would work if it were “X giving《literal》refuge”.

    Anyway, enough 😀

50. Enjoyed this quite a bit. On the discussion of THEE@43 through 47, I took “hiding” to mean “removing the hide” and the clue to read something like “Down-at-heel [is] old solver given hiding”–a bit convoluted but along the lines of those envelopes where the order is reversed from what I’d expect? Maybe it’s not quite the same though. Speaking of which, though, is there any particular reason 3d is a twitcher’s refuge? Twitchers are birdwatchers I believe but is “hide” particularly a noun for them?

    I complain about things like “girl” for a name sometimes so I was happy to see IRENE given more specificity.

    Thanks Maskarade and Eileen!

    (About UFOS, hopefully I can mention without spoiling the other puzzle that UFOS wasn’t what went in the grid for that one.)

51. [Lord Jim @42: indeed a lovely tribute to Eileen. I don’t remember this, so I must have started posting on here after that. A sprightly 86 indeed].

52. I’ve always thought the male form was referred to as ‘physique’ as opposed to ‘figure’, which is more appropriate for the female.

53. On doing this last night, my only thought to comment on this morning was the reference to the meaning of the girl IRENE, but people have beaten me to it (which is a good thing because it shows the sentiment is shared). I think it would be wonderful if this became a common(er) practice.

54. I’m another AREA (Lord Jim@19) and RESTS (william@40).

    Liked the puzzle. Got all of it last night except UNCONSUMED, which required a bit of check button this morning.

    Enjoyed it all. Thanks, Maskarade and Eileen. Now I’m going to print that lovely 80th birthday Eileen/Arachne puzzle that Lord Jim’s provided and enjoy it all over again.

55. MattW@50 the hut at a lakeside to watch birds is called a hide. And the use of both languages in Wales means that Land of my Fathers is not “unofficial”, Eileen – unless you consider GSTK is official!

56. Land of my fathers could be considered unofficial because it’s in English. I have only ever heard it sung in Welsh
    Iechyd da pob Cymro, twll dyn pob Saith.

57. [Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau is a celebration of Wales and its language, with a stirring melody – much the best of the ‘anthems’ of the British nations. GSTK is a terrible dirge, with no reference other than to an arbitrary figurehead. Flower of Scotland has become popular with Caledonians, only because it is a dig at the English (OK, there was Bannockburn, but what about Flodden and Solway Moss?) rather than praising the many great things about their nation – and the melody is a rip-off of ‘Va pensiero’ from Nabucco]

58. I thought the Emperor was the Roman OTHO. No wonder I couldn’t parse him.

59. When I was an English student in Swansea, something like this was available for us poor foreigners to pretend to sing. I think the version I heard was a bit more polite, but I can’t remember all of it.

60. Xerxes#55 Wikipedia says GSTK gets its official status in the UK by “custom and use” not by royal proclamation or statute (which seems to imply it’s unofficially official). It calls Hen Wlad fy Nhadau “unofficial” even though it clearly enjoys similar custom and use here in 7d and the rest of Wales.

61. I was just quoting from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hen_Wlad_Fy_Nhadau

62. Eileen@61 not sure how we should describe the status of our national anthems but entries in Wikipedia are definitely “unofficial” and not authoritative.

63. I’ve never finished a Maskerade before but the Monday brief seemed to have been received here, which was fine by me.
    Had to come here for NUNEATEN’s explanation but perhaps should have realised for myself. Never even noticed it being ‘ago’ rather than ego. Sometimes the eye reads what the mind wants it to.

64. Not sure if anyone has mentioned John Redwood’s cringeworthy miming to LAND OF MY FATHERS while secretary of state for Wales.
    To say he looked a complete idiot is an understatement.
    Nice crossword.
    Thanks both.

65. Hmmm. A few too many loosenesses for my liking – top meaning “take the tops of” (it doesn’t), hideous being arbitrarily shortened, the weakish CDs (I was looking for another place in the Nuneaton one).
    I also had AREA, which works even better in American vernacular as A + REA(L), as in a real/truly nice guy.
    Liked PURCHASES and INGREDIENT.
    Thanks, M&E

66. The Welsh National Anthem is the first song my mother taught me . GSTK is a dirge and a plea to something that doesn’t exist to save something that shouldn’t exist .

67. Most enjoyable – and 2 cricket references (27ac, 4d) from the man who sets puzzles for The Cricketer. Thank you Maskerade and Eileen.

68. With regard to A HEAD FOR FIGURES – a ‘figure study’ is a somewhat dated euphemism for a nude photo. Don’t ask me how I know this! I guess the Chippendales used to perform (almost) nude – or do they still?

    It all went in smoothly today. I was confused by ‘alter ago’ but guessed this was a misprint. Can’t pick one to stand out – perhaps IRENE: the name does indeed come from the Greek ‘ειρήνη’ meaning ‘peace’. Nice surface, just a wee bit risqué.

    Thanks to Maskarade (not seen too often on a Monday) and Eileen.

69. Most of the puzzle was very enjoyable, but 13D should have been taken out back and shot. Thanks to Maskarade and Eileen.

70. So a definition in the middle of one and no definition at all in another. Why not leave the cryptic part out as well and make it really difficult. I give up

71. This is a question about an homophone in an old Guardian puzzle from 2019 (27,875) we ​have been working on which contained the following clue.

    Nancy’s repeated consent by phone to get rid of waste (3-3) WEE-WEE

    Sounds like (‘by phone’) the French (‘Nancy’s’) OUI (yes, ‘consent’), twice (‘repeated’).

    There was nothing in the clue, that we could see, to indicate that the answer wasn’t OUI OUI. ​We have encountered two different rules for homophones. The rule in Toronto’s Globe and Mail is that the the homophone is always closest to the signal. In the ST world (sorry, I’ll wash out my mouth with soap) we have decided that the answer is always at the beginning of the clue. We used that rule and only found out that OUI OUI was wrong when we got some of the crossers.

    Any thoughts on the matter?

    Thanks to all the setters and bloggers. You are all much appreciated.

    Tom McGuirk and Jan Fralick

72. Hi Tom@71, there’s thankfully no such ‘answer at beginning of clue’ rule in The Guardian, the straight definition can be at the beginning or end or even (rarely) in the middle. My turn now, is it ‘an homophone’ or ‘a homophone’? According to this it’s only when the stress is on the second or later syllable of an h-word that one might contemplate using ’an’ instead of ‘a’ because the ’h’ is then less aspirated than in a first-syllable-stressed h-word. Hence ‘an history’ is wrong but ‘an historical…’. is ok. So maybe you could just about talk of ‘an homoPHONic passage in a Haydn symphony’ but not ‘an HOMophone’? Not what you asked about but I hope you don’t mind me seeking clarification!

73. Tom@71, I’m not aware of any such rule in the British papers, and indeed ambiguously-located soundalike indicators invariably elicit a grumble or two in the comments here. Basically it’s a flaw in the clue (wrt local convention); the indicator should be unambiguously located.

74. [LordJim@42: What a nice tribute! Thanks for pointing it out.]

75. Tom@71 The answer is hyphenated. OUI OUI isn’t. Ça suffit?

76. Just to be pedantic, the title of the anthem is “Mae hen wlad fy nhadau”. The 1st word isn’t translated into English, but is needed in Welsh.

77. Tom McGuirk@71: But it’s an English language crossword, n’est-ce pas? Besides for the answer to be ‘oui oui’ the wordplay would have to be (more than?) slightly Yoda-esque (:’by phone to get rid of waste’)?

    The convention that the definition can come at the end or beginning of a clue is just that, deriving from the way we do be speaking the English tongue (with all it’s imperfections): this is that, that is this, (subject-predicate-object (I seem to recall)) so there is little scope for the definition to be elsewhere.

    I wouldn’t lose sleep over WEE-WEE.

78. Btw great to see Welsh getting an airing. Are there crosswords in Welsh? (Cryptics of course is what I mean….)

79. [Eileen@12 – bless you for your thoughtfulness, which is much appreciated (though I’m more likely to be behind with 15², rather than the puzzles themselves – and I find the former often more time consuming than the latter, and as engrossing!)
    Incidentally, Picaroon’s clue for your name (@39) isn’t just a deserved tribute but a delightfully pithy clue in itself; I do hope it’s on your headed notepaper?!]

80. Dear William @79

    I’m ever conscious of an occasion, some years ago, when I offended. 🙁

    The delightfully succinct Picaroon clue would have been in my little book of classics, on its own merits, even before his comment. 😉

81. [Great friendships often start on the wrong foot! Your reply is treasured 😇]

82. Is anyone else struggling with the parsing of ‘two sharp bends’ in 1d as a ‘Z’? I’ve not seen that before, I filled in the answer long before I worked that out. Is it a reasonably well-established cluing convention?

83. I took ‘ago’ in 13d to be a rendering of how the word would be pronounced in the West Midlands.

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