Quick Cryptic 30 by Maskarade

71 comments on “Quick Cryptic 30 by Maskarade”

1. And I forgot to add in something about the soundalikes – which to choose of the two options. These are all very clear and are in the format of
   Definition, soundalike, indicator
   or Indicator, soundalike, definition.

2. This had some great anagrams – VERSATILE, PETS and TIREDNESS all made me smile and admire the setter. Many smooth surfaces too

   It will be interesting to hear others’ views on the new format. My view is hiding the wordplay is a bit too much – it turns it into too much of a treasure hunt

   thanks Muskarade and Shanne.

3. Martyn – we were asked to hide the answers before last week, so tried it out – and there were a number of responses saying: “no point hiding the answers without hiding the wordplay, because the wordplay gives the answer away”.

   It’s a lot more coding to get this result.

4. Thanks Shanne,

   To clarify, hiding the answers is fine by me but hiding the wordplay is a bit much. Too much work to read. And, as you wrote, a lot of work for you.

5. Thanks Shanne for your blog, and all the work you put into your summary of the first 6 months that you linked in your foreword above.

   I also highly recommend the link you included to the ultimate beginner’s guide, the Crossword Blog of 21 October 24, prepared by Alan Connor, the Guardian Crossword Editor, and compiler of Everyman.
   Both these resources are invaluable. I had to go to multiple sites to find this information when I was starting out.

6. I think this was one of the better QC’s by Maskarade. Nice variety in indicators for the 4 clue types this week. Nothing esoteric, unless you don’t know either tatting and the use of a shuttle, or the word for rubbish.

   I did have to think twice about drop leaves in SHED. “Leaves” is not the first word that comes to mind to me in connection with what can be dropped when shedding, possibly because I live in a climate where there aren’t as many deciduous trees. I’m more used to things like shedding clothing, or dog’s hair, or snakeskin.

   And Vi clued as little girl made me smile, as it’s a diminutive (little), usually for Violet, which is a fairly older type of ”girl’s” name, not as common these days.

7. Decent puzzle from Maskarade. Interested to see how beginners find it as I thought there were 2-3 clues in there which are tough but also some easy ones.

   As ever, I’ve done a live solve which can be found at https://youtu.be/K7wnGjpSMlU and hopefully helps those starting out on their journey to see how to approach.

8. Thanks Shane and Masquerade

   I would go as far as to say that 5d Ear is misclued. There is no soundalike pointer . I think the the Setter was thinking about cluing ‘ear but clued ‘ere. Unless we are barking up wrong tree entirely.

   A good standard none the less as this clue was still very gettable

   Btw. If the extra work entailed in hiding everything is not too much then I would approve. It allows trainee solvers maximum flexibility. Tnx Shanne

9. I still don’t get why VI would be little girl. I still got vicar as it was obvious without the rest of the clue but it can’t just be a diminutive of Violet can it?

10. Matthew Newell @8. Cockney is considered as a sounds like indicator without the need for any additional indication.

    Jean@9. I believe that’s all there is to the “little girl” Vi in VICAR, a diminutive of Violet.

11. Jean @9 there’s a convention that girl or boy can clue a boy or girl’s name in UK crosswordese. It’s not allowed in American style crosswords from the comments on the blogs. Violet therefore is a girl, VI is a short girl (as is LAS cutting off the second S).

    I do know some young Violets, probably aged around 10 now.

12. I like the hiding of the answers – it reminds me of those websites that would give you progressive hints for point and click games like Day of the Tentacle.

    Small fix: 20a anagrind is attacked

    That tat definition was new to me.

13. Excellent puzzle for beginners.

    The answer to 16d TAT was obvious to me but I needed to look up the art of tatting to check it uses a shuttle, which I was unaware of before today.

    Wow, that is a lot of coding work for Shanne to create the blog in that way. I start to wonder, is it really necessary? Surely anyone who comes to fifteensquared to read the blog of any puzzle here is aware that there are “spoilers” in the form of answers and parsing/wordplay?

    Thanks, both.

14. Great to have lots of practice with double definitions and soundalikes.
    As for anagrams – I’m still needing paper and pencil. Is doing this in your head a learnable skill, for experienced solvers, or are you just born with it?
    I like hiding the answers, but could forgo hiding the wordplay.
    Thank you Maskarade and Shanne

15. MASCOT works, perhaps a little better, as MA’S COT where a cot is a small bed.

16. Monkey@15 that’s how I read 14a (mascot) too. Very satisfying puzzle this morning. Didn’t know the lace making meaning of tat, and could only think of Vicky or Vivienne for Vi. Thanks Maskarade and Shanne for another great blog.

17. Monkey @15 – I did dither about whether the definition of COT was small bed, so MA’S was part of the wordplay – but my extensive reading has had cot beds as built in beds, rather than just small beds – but checking with Chambers, they define a cot as a small bed, so I’ll agree on that.

    paddymelon @10 -= it’s me who queried the Cockney clue as missing a soundalike indicator under one of the hidden bits. I thought that Cockney indicated dropping an aitch to get the second soundalike. I’ve got back up from Alan Connor’s Crossword blog for beginners – here, from 2012.

    The comments we got last week was that hiding the solution only worked if the wordplay was also hidden, because the wordplay gives away the answer. And I can’t make rude comments without giving away the answer either! So those are also hidden.

18. Gawny@14
    I think it’s fine to use paper and pen/pencil to work out anagrams, even for experienced solvers. I enjoy doing them that way. It’s only the shorter ones that I do in my head.

19. This was a very nice quick cryptic. Like others I read MASCOT as a charade of MA’S (a possession of a mother) and COT (small bed).
    Liked HECTARE as clue-as-definition. Lots of soundalike practice again (like last week).
    Thanks Maskarade for the puzzle and Shanne for the explanations.

20. 9a is a bit odd. Yes, “racquet” is the original spelling, but it’s almost always “racket” nowadays – there’s even a sport called “rackets”. Thus the soundalike indicator isn’t needed.

21. muffin @20 – I see both rackets and racquets in the UK, both are given in Chambers, but we have a lot of sports centres and suppliers referring to racquets for the sports equipment. The game is spelled both ways if you look it up – see Wikipedia.

22. Shanne @21
    I’m not saying that “racquets” isn’t used. My point was that “rackets” are sports equipment, so “heard” is superfluous.

23. Interesting that tat came from lacemaking. I read it that a shuttle (on a loom) shoots backwards and forwards so the answer would read the same forwards or backwards.

    Getting the hang of the soundalikes now thanks to this blog and HG’s live solve.

24. muffin @21 – but if Maskarade wanted it to be a double definition not a soundalike he wouldn’t have included the “heard”. I go by what it looks as if the setter intended, where it’s obvious.

25. That’s my point, Shanne. “Heard” isn’t needed. As the clue reads, it looks like Maskarade is unaware that a “racket” is an item of sports equipment.

26. To me, 4d was clearly a charade of I (“one”) + RAN (“hastened”) for the definition of “Persia nowadays”, but it’s probably not that important.

    [I can see advantages of having “a gradual help” with hiding details by default, but am not sure if the involved effort justifies it. At least, I’d rather combine answers and parsing hints in one block.]

    Gawny@14 et al.: Online versions of Guardian crosswords offer an anagram helper, in which you can type anything you consider the anagram from the clue and “shuffle” it around crossers already in place. It can be quite useful imho.

    Thank you, Maskarade and Shanne

27. jayuu @26 – we had the charade double definition debate the last two times Maskarade clued like this. The consensus was double definition.

    if I put all the information together it becomes one unreadable block. If I split it up, each section has to be hidden separately. I’m working around the additional notes by writing them as a bulleted list, but I’m not sure that will be clear enough for the wordplay.

    Personally I’m hoping to be told to take it off as unworkable, but I live in hope.

28. If I were you, Shanne, I’d take it off as unworkable!

29. I found the QC straightforward.

    Also, a big thumbs up for the hiding feature. For example, it could be used to practise on
    individual clues for crosswords I’d normally not attempt (yes, I know it’s giving the method in the way the clue is written here).

    Thanks Shane and Maskarade.

30. D’oh sorry for wrong spelling Shanne!

31. Just adding my 2p worth on the 4d debate. I definitely it as a charade rather than double def. but can see that dd also works as well.

32. Muffin, passim: I had the same quibble about RACKET/RACQUET, except that I was under the impression that the former was the American spelling, so I thought it was just the Atlantic Ocean intervening again. Interesting to know that that’s not the case.

    Amplifying Shanne’s comment on given names in American crosswords–it’s indeed not allowed by editors here to clue them simply as “boy” or “girl” in any crossword, whether plain or cryptic. (We do have a few cryptics here.) What the setter does is find a notable person with the name in question. Off the top of my head, though, I can’t think of a famous Vi, so in the US, Maskarade would have probably had to come up with a plan B.

33. From a beginner’s perspective, I enjoyed this, as I have all of the Quick Cryptics, and completed it without much trouble. I tend not to look at this blog until I have either finished the crossword or filled in as much as I can and revealed the remaining answers so that I can try to figure out on my own how the clues work. Then I come to the blog for confirmation or explanation. I don’t need anything to be hidden and prefer how it was before. More effort than it is worth?

34. [So for example, you might see “Gore, high, by himself? (5)” for ALONE (Al on E). Or “Everyone but Sheeran is famous? (5)”, which is easy enough that I’ll let you work it out for yourselves. As you can see, I’m no professional at setting–both of these might need a little massaging.]

35. Thank you for the crossword and the solving explanations.

    I love the reveals of explanation and answer.

36. Total beginner. I managed to get all clues but did use an anagram solver and brute forced some clues, like TITLE at the end where the surface completely through me and I could guess the blank letters.

    Vicar was obvious from the “by vehicle” but no idea how you’d know that small girl was the abbreviation of Violet!

    Tat being only three letters meant I got it purely through Rubbish clue and guessing but had no idea about TAT and weaving of a shuttle.

    Some clues gave immediate answers IRAN, HECTARE, PEER, PALE, NEED

    It’s humbling how “easy” these are compared to the grown up cryptic where even when you look up the answers it’s hard to understand the logic

37. EAR also able to be guessed due to 3 letters and having the A in place but even explained the clue doesn’t make sense to me. One of the nice things about the cryptic clues is how you know you’ve got an answer right cos of how cleverly it fits the clue.

38. Charles, if you’re Cockney, you stereotypically would say “here” (present) as EAR. So Maskarade is inviting you to do that. And “ear” means attention, metonymically, in phrases like “you have my ear.”

    (Most of the time in crosswordland, Cockney or East End means to literally delete an H, but this is more accurate really, since the accent drops an H only when spoken, right? They do know how to spell… Still, as many have argued above, knowing you’re meant to say it–i.e., that it’s a soundalike clue–in this instance might be a bridge too far for the target audience of this puzzle.)

39. I’m English and from London so I do understand cockney and how it sounds. I sort of get it now it’s been more fully explained. Typo previously – I had the E from Versatile not the A. Had to look up “metonymically” 🙂 learning new words from crossword answers and the explanation of crossword clues!

40. Thank you Shanne, your work on these blogs is very much appreciated.

41. Hi Shanne, thanks once more for your blog. Another very enjoyable Quick Cryptic with plenty of grins at the answers. On the subject of your new layout I never actually look at Fifteen Squared until I have finished the crossword and then it is to check my understanding of the wordplay and not the answers. I can see it’s a good idea to hide the answers for anyone looking for a hint to help with the wordplay, but I think it would be fine to leave the latter unhidden – especially if that’s easier for you. : )

42. I came here to get an explanation for 18dn – so thanks for tatting which I have heard of but forgotten. Great innovatory blog Shanne – will be really helpful for us beginners. Also thanks Maskarade – 11dn brilliant anagram!

43. Nice puzzle, Tat being the only unknown – lace making turns out to be a grey area for me.
    Hiding everything and forcing all those clicks…. If I’m honest I’m not sure what the point is. I solve the puzzle online and visit this sight for the extra insight and tips. But obviously we all have varying needs.
    Thanks to all involved another enjoyable Saturday.

44. Yes, I see your intention, Shanne, but I expect that most people (like me) don’t come here until they have finished or given up, so your care to hide answers is probably unnecessary.

45. Hi, I was the one who suggested last week to hide the wordplay as well as the answer because – as I continue to believe – if you see the wordplay then you basically see the answer, in most cases (anagram fodder is most obvious exception).

    The feedback so far has been about 50-50 in favour or against all this hiding. However, most of the against seems to boil down to “I personally don’t make use of it”, which I’m not sure is much of an argument while there are others who seemingly do, and it’s also pretty natural that up until now they haven’t interactively come to the blog post before time, because doing so spoils part of the puzzle; it’s very hard to avoid seeing other answers.

    More pertinent factors would be (a) the effort for everyone having to do clicks instead of just reading through the page (I wonder if the software provides an easy way to achieve an “unhide all” button) and (b) the effort involved for Shanne to write the post this way.

    The point in favour of the hiding is that it’s now possible for people who are stuck to come to the blog post and get hints (the definition underlining and the anagram/soundalike indicators) without giving away the solution and without seeing the solutions/wordplay of other clues. This could also benefit those who say they only come here after finishing/revealing the whole puzzle; they now have the possibility to get help earlier. The process of solving the puzzle becomes more dynamic, with the blog post going hand-in-hand with the solving. Of course, people have spent 28 puzzles not doing this, so it might take a few goes to change that habit.

    If factors (a) and (b) above are regarded as weighty, I’d suggest going back to having just one hidden section per clue, but hiding both the wordplay and the answer there.

    Anyway, kudos again to Shanne for investing time into exploring different approaches; you have created a fantastic resource for beginners.

46. AP @45
    I see your point that these puzzles should perhaps be treated differently from standard ones.

47. Shanne@17 I have seen Cockney used an indicator without simply an aitch dropped, and as a soundalike without being further indicated, but I couldn’t remember where it was to cite an example.

    The link you included from Alan Connor’s crossword blog from 2012 does include one, (exerpt below). The ones I’ve seen would have been much more recent.

    From Alan Connor’s article on Cockney:

    And so what we’re sometimes being asked to do is to imagine how a word sounds rather than just spelling it without an H, like in the soundalike clues we looked at in an earlier post, and in this clue from Crucible…

    30ac Is it raised by suspicious East End intellectual? (7)

    … where a Cockney pronunciation of “highbrow” gives us the answer: EYEBROW.

48. EAR/COCKNEY continued. Just did a site search on 15 squared for the use of Cockney.

    Came up with other uses of Cockney as an indicator, eg for rhyming slang, as in China for mate (China plate), or the substitution of /f/ for /th/ as in free for three. They weren’t on today’s menu, but something to store away in the cryptic larder.

    As it’s getting towards time for Everyman and the Quiptic, I’m going to leave it here, but I did find this one from Everyman 4047 in May this year where Cockney is used to indicate both the dropped aitch and a soundalike.

    EARLS
    Casts Cockney as gentry (5)
    Sounds like (‘Cockney’ speaking with dropped aitch) ‘URLS (‘casts’).

49. paddymelon @47 & 48 – the Alan Connor article example is an cryptic definiton, and those often misses out the wordplay in the cluing. And are you really going to use the current Everyman to suggest good cluing, with the amount of outrage it often creates?

    Yes, Cockney is used to clue rhyming slang – but this is the Quick Cryptic and I’m not trying to make things difficult, so adding new things as we come across them, rather than additional complications. The fact you’re having to search quite hard to find it used as both a soundalike indicator and to drop an aitch suggests that it’s not usual.

50. Didn’t understand either definition of 18D, never heard it used to mean “rubbish” before either. Had “tip” originally (which doesn’t really *mean* rubbish but at least is obviously associated with) and thinking that maybe drivers of shuttle vehicles typically expect tips in the US (knew it was a stretch!).

    Oh and couldn’t help thinking “Mum’s got little bed charm” would have worked better.

51. Thanks Shanne for the blog – much appreciated.

    I only come here for extra insight once I’ve finished the crossword and so all the hidden parts are unnecessary for me. I preferred it without anything hidden.

52. I’m adding my ´five penny worth’ as a complete beginner. I too work on the puzzle and look here only when I don’t understand how the answer has been arrived at. I was stumped by the bird with a French name. I assumed that the word Cockney indicated rhyming slang therefore was a soundalike and ‘here’ translated to ear. I didn’t understand Vi so the explanation is really helpful. Having learned a bit about lacemaking TAT was fine. Thanks for this blog. I wouldn’t be learning without it.

53. Totting up the numbers to here, of those who’ve stated a preference:

    For hiding everything on the blog – 7
    Against hiding everything 7 + 2 (the plus 2 are regulars I see on the standard Cryptics)

    AR – I don’t think it’s an idea that will extend to the other blogs, unless kenmac has other ideas – we’re experimenting with this blog which isn’t using the standard format. As I set up the original coding for this blog I can change the coding to include other ideas. Most of the other blogs use a neat program that produces most of the layout from the published crossword; we have to type in the answers and any commentary.

54. Lots of discussion on this one! My wife and I completed over breakfast. I started learning cryptics a few weeks ago and this was the first quick I’ve found challenging for a while. Had no idea about the spinning association for tat nor seeds in Wimbledon (I don’t watch tennis). “Out” as an anagrind was new to me too, I think.

    Re hiding the answers and definitions, I think it’s a really great idea to offer more of a helping hand to beginners. I wonder if it’s worth considering revealing what kind of clue and what the indicator is before anything else, to give learners an extra leg up?

    Appreciate the coding difficulties… maybe worth considering either making two posts or splitting the post in half – just hints at the start and then “now here’s all the answers and parsing”?

    Regardless of what you choose to do, I think this blog is great and really appreciate all the work put into it – I can’t overstate its importance in my cryptic learning journey!

55. Thanks for this Shanne. I don’t post often, but am learning a lot from these quick cryptics and your parsing of them. I like the new approach of breaking it down into the wordplay and then the answer, and especially like HWBY’s suggestion for the leg up (54), but am sorry to hear it’s so much work for you. Very grateful for this site!

56. Shanne@53 Oh sure, the ideas being tested and discussed would only be for the Quick Cryptics, naturally. If you need an “unhide all” button that uncollapses all of the Details in one go, for the benefit of those who just want to see everything at once, like on all the other blog posts, I can send you the simple line or two of JavaScript that would achieve that. Let me know in a reply here on this post, and I’ll send you an e-mail.

57. All the drop downs cause a problem if you read the blog on a phone and have fat fingers! As with several others, I come to better understand the answers or why I was stumped. Hiding is an irritation for me. Excellent puzzle this week, thank you for the insight. Also, enjoyed the longest train of comments yet!

58. HWBY@54 and Jenny@55: regarding the “leg up”, I think Shanne’s more or less doing that already, given that the definition is being bolded and underlined while anagram and soundalike indicators are being highlighted in red. With that, it’s also possible to see whether a clue is a double definition or a clue-as-definition (either cryptic definition or &lit).

59. AP – kenmac and I are chatting back stage and I’d be willing to try a reveal all button for those who’d rather see things unhidden, if you can provide it.

    I was intending several legs up in this mode of posting:
    1. highlighting the definition in the clue + any indicators – that should drop a heavy hint
    2. wordplay on the click of a button – which may or may not reveal the answer, depending on what the clue type is – soundalike / double definition / charade are all pretty much revealed at that stage.
    3. solution to the clue also hidden.

    What I’m unsure about is any additional hints and tips – if I don’t hide them, I’m often giving away the answer, but if I do hide them, it’s a further click to find the extra information or tips about crosswordese.

    An option could be tips and hints from this crossword as a separate area at the end, when the crossword is revealed.

60. I thought 11 was a single definition – I didn’t spot the anagram until I had written it in. &lit is shorthand for this type of clue.

    Regular cryptic clues have two discrete components – the definition and the wordplay. &lit is an unusual clue type in which the definition and the wordplay are the same.

    &lit stands for “and literally so”. The wordplay is of any regular type in an &lit clue – say, container or anagram; the specialty is that the entire clue is its definition. See https://www.crosswordunclued.com/2008/08/and-literally-so.html for more.

61. 58Dave @60 – in the blurb up at the top, under clue as definition, I do say that they are sometimes called &lit clues, and I do say that clue is a clue as definition under the second hidden details tab. We’re still experimenting with this blog format and things may not be in the most helpful places yet.

    I am extremely reluctant to define clues as &lit, in common with some of the other bloggers, because it tends to just result in a major discussion about clue types. Your view may vary, but I don’t see discussions about the precise clue types as helpful to beginners, the audience to which this blog and these crosswords are addressed.

62. @Shanne – Lovely blog as always.

    I do hope people prefer you to go back to the simple format – this new format is quite ugly and clunky, though I do realise why some people might like it – and I imagine it adds considerably to your workload.

    I would have thought that showing solutions and answers went together and that what beginners would more appreciate is separate hints (such as the dividing point of the clue into two halves, or underlining the definition) to get them closer without a full reveal. But that’s yet more work for you!

    I have always liked Big Dave’s layout (https://bigdave44.com/) which doesn’t seem to rely on a tabular form and has a quite simple arrangement for showing answers. I don’t think it would be too hard to emulate for showing solutions – though aware that they’re using native WordPress and you are not.

    The only other alternative I can think of would be to publish the blog twice (Quick Cryptic 30) and (Quick Cryptic 30 hints) but that does seem an unfair burden to drop on your shoulders.

63. Well, this immediately came up when I tried to find an explanation via Google for 18D, so you’re very findable. I didn’t see your comment about making this until afterwards. Thanks awfully for the explanations, it’s very helpful

64. I find all the complicated separate hiding and revealing irritating, but then I’m not the target audience here. I did enjoy HECTARE.

65. I am new to these and found the hiding of the wordplay and answer so useful. There was one or two I was stuck on, and it allowed me to come here, get certainty on which part was the definition, and have another crack. Really appreciate the extra time you are putting into it. So thanks Shanne 👏 a suggestion maybe you could have a “reveal all” button at the top to appease others but I am not a coder so not sure if that’s possible haha but thanks again. Ryan from sunny Brisbane

66. If possible, I’d appreciate a ‘reveal all details’ button so you don’t have to press details for every clue and answer.

67. Gawny@14: Try using Scrabble letters of the anagram ….. and keep moving them around to see whavt they’ll reveal

68. Shanne, I would not even attempt the QCs without your blog. What a lot of work you have with it. Thank you.

69. Thank you again for this blog!
    This one went well for me. 😀
    I had to come here to figure out how the numerals for six (as I read it) related to little girls (still a baffling one to me), and discover what tatting is, but I got the solutions unaided.

    I remain mystified by ‘mascot’ though, and the dictionary didn’t help me – in what sense is a charm synonymous with a mascot?

70. Hi Ral @69 – I get email notifications when you post on these blogs, so I have seen you working your way through them. Well done on getting this far, and I’m glad you’re enjoying them.

    Charm – has several meanings in Chambers, which tends to be the standard crosswording dictionary (and has been for years) – after the definitions for personal attraction, Chambers goes on to say:

    a spell: something thought to possess ocult esp that brings good luck, such as an amulet … a talisman, amulet, etc.; a trinket esp worn on a bracelet. [then gets into physics and atomic particles and their properties] It then goes on to the verb forms.

    a mascot is defined as a talisman, a supposed bringer of good luck,

    I saw them equivalent as both talismans, carriers of good luck.

71. Thank you, that’s very kind!

    That definition for charm makes perfect sense to me, but I didn’t realise mascot could also be used in so similar a sense – I only knew it in the more specific sense of a figurehead or symbol.

    Thank you for enlightening me!

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