Guardian Cryptic 29,547 by Pangakupu

67 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 29,547 by Pangakupu”

1. A little more gentle than Pangakupu’s norm I thought, or perhaps I was just lucky today. Lots to like, including the neat surfaces for WEEKLONG, GAOLED, COSIGN, and CHORAL. Learnt something new about salmon as well. Thanks Pangakupu and manehi

2. Thanks Pangakupu and manehi
   I found the LHS much easier than the right, and it was a DNF – I didn’t get FLOG, and I don’t think it’s sour grapes to think it not a very good clue.
   Why “ancient” in 15a? “OId” would be more appropriate.
   I loved the clue for CHORAL.

3. Made good progress with this until right at the very end it took me ages to solve the tiddlers in the opposite corners, FOOL and FLOG and SKIM and HELM…

4. Very tough.

   Favourites: CUTESY, WEEKLONG.

   New for me: GRILSE, ENCOMIA; SIM = character in computer game (for 2d); ULSTER = coat.

5. Like muffin, I thought FLOG was weak and ‘ancient’ seemed inappropriate.

6. I found this really hard and even with lots of help I couldn’t parse many of them. So thank you so much manehi! I’m hoping I’ve at least learned something(s), so thank you Pangakupu

7. Pleasant puzzle. My favourites were REBELLIOUS, SMOULDER, COSIGN (my autocorrect suggests CO-SIGN), CHORAL and SPITTOON (though I prefer the name ‘cuspidor’ for this receptacle).

   I had encountered GRILSE and ‘parr’ as names for different stages of juvenile salmon, though which comes first I can’t remember.

   A few quiblets around the definitions: I wouldn’t describe ALPINE as Southern European, though it might be considered the border between north and south, and describing PAELLA as a ‘stew’ seems strange.

   A note on BISCOTTI: in Italian the word is a general term for ‘biscuits’ (US cookies) but in the Anglosphere it tends to be used for a particular type of hard biscuit containing almonds, known in Italy as ‘cantucci’ – originating from Tuscany, they are often served as a dessert and are typically dunked into a sweet wine (vin santo).

   Thanks to S&B

8. Checking an online Maori dictionary, it also appears that WHIRINGA has connotations of ‘selection’ and ARANGI of ‘troubling’.
   Was there possibly a troubling selection in November?
   Thanks to Pangakupu and manehi

9. I agree with manehi’s assessment and choice of favourites. I think the setter maybe thought “old” was overused in crosswords and Chambers has the second meaning of ancient as “of former times” Offload was a clever bit of misdirection to get us thinking of a subtraction clue, though I agree the surface is a bit clunky.

10. I agree with Paul @1 that this was a gentler Pangakupu than we are used-to.

    No problem with FLOG but I too found the ‘ancient’ soldier rather odd. And is paella a stew? But these are tiny quibbles. I enjoyed the puzzle – especially 7a, 23a, 3d, 4d and 21d.

    Thanks to Pangakupu and Manehi

11. Steady progress throughout. Whilst I don’t think we’ll get into Hola/Ola territory I’m not sold on PAELLA being a stew.
    Good workout.

12. Rather taken aback to see PAELLA described as a stew (even though it’s in Chambers). I don’t think that biryani or risotto would be called stews. They’re all rice dishes where the liquid is almost completely absorbed.

    Given that ENCOMIA are indeed laudatory remarks, I don’t understand the question mark in 17a.

13. Poc @12. Ships that pass in the night.

14. Like muffin @2 I liked CHORAL.
    I think FLOG is quite sound (but then as I live out in the country with one of them there polluting woodburners, I would, wouldn’t I?), but I was held up for quite some time in that corner trying to understand how FOIL might fit the definition.
    Didn’t get REDCOAT but the clue’s quite fair. There are worse things to worry about than old/ancient, IMHO.
    Similarly, to describe a paella as a stew seems a neat cryptic definition.
    Nice puzzle and helpful blog.
    Thanks to Pangakupu and manehi.

15. The Māori is no help in solving but it keeps the setter and blogger entertained.

    I got rather stuck in the SE corner but it eventually fell into place. I liked the good anagrams for PRINT MEDIA and REBELLIOUS. I also enjoyed the wordplays for NON-VIOLENT, INGROWTH and CHORAL.

    Thanks Pan and manehi (especially for the Ulster COAT).

16. Everything I wanted to say had been said… ancient vs old; paella = stew? ALPINE for Southern European and so on.

    Easier end of the New Zealander’s spectrum perhaps but nonetheless enjoyable.

    Many thanks both.

17. I’m another who is not totally sold on paella as a stew. That said, it does seem to fit the definition…(?) It was only the South East that really held me up. Some really good clues. Favourites include IBIDEM, CHORAL and CUTSEY (only in cryptic crossword land could you find such a wonderful sentence). With thanks to both

18. I also found this a little more accessible than his usual fare but still slowed down in the SE, needing to use the Chambers word-finder feature to get me ENCOMIA, a new word for me. I quite liked FLOG even though I initially tried FOIL. Also liked IBIDEM, ICE SKATE, COSIGN, POM-POM, SPITTOON and INGROWTH.

    Many thanks to both.

19. Misled by ‘ancient British’ and the crossers into bunging in an unparsed ‘Mercian’ where ‘Redcoats’ should be. Really liked ‘Choral’, in which Beethoven’s double duty is entirely justified by the cleverness of the clueing.

20. Surely the whole point of “Ancient British” is that it’s intended to mislead us into thinking of woad-covered warriors. As Petert says @9, “ancient” can just mean “of former times” so it seems fine.

    Enjoyable puzzle. Many thanks Pangakupu and manehi.

21. After some recent puzzles it was nice to have one with little GK.

    GRISLE was new to me but clearly clued enough that with the crossers I got there. Also NHO Ulster as a type of coat so only half-parsed 15A. And I dredged up IBIDEM from somewhere.

    I was perfectly happy with 24A, but tastes differ and are not to be argued.

    Thanks Pangakupu and manehi

22. I never know when I’ll be on Pangakupu’s wavelength. I don’t know whether this was easy or hard, but it went in smoothly for me, except for FLOG — I’m not familiar with the “offload” meaning.

    DuncT @8 Interesting alternate translation of the Nina! Are you being coy and you referring to the rightward shift of the NZ government?

23. The Guardian Cryptic is the answer to the lament of every child learning trigonometry, “when will I ever need to know this?”

24. Jacob @23: In order to solve the Guardian cryptic – the more words you can recall, the easier the challenge 🙂

25. Lord Jim@20 It certainly misled me! Coupled with Ulster = NI, I was off in the world of the Iceni or their like for a long time.

    Thanks Pangakupu and manehi

26. I enjoyed the misdirection of ‘stew’ which had me thinking of ragout, tagine and other 6-letter meaty dishes until the penny dropped. Likewise a tick for ‘ancient’ sending me off among the Picts and Celts. GRILSE is new to me but got there from the wp after wasting time thinking (wrongly) that ide is a lake salmon so should fit in somehow. Favourites CHORAL and SPITOON. Thanks P and M.

27. poc @12 is right that Chambers calls PAELLA a stew, which is obviously Pangakupu’s defence (‘it’s in Chambers’). One of that publication’s many dubious definitions

28. Nice puzzle. I was going to add SMOULDER/warm to the list of stretchy synonyms here, but the question-mark at the end widens the margin of “close enough”.

    Cannoli yesterday, BISCOTTI and PAELLA today, maybe there is a WEEKLONG theme emerging!

29. I found this chewy but fair. I have the same likes as Robi@15 with CHORAL being my favourite. New words for me were GRILSE and ENCOMIA but they were fairly clued. I thought FLOG was a nice clue but needed FOOL before I got it. Re PAELLA, I agree that stew doesn’t readily come to mind but it just about worked for me. I even spotted the nina but had not picked up on the possible alternative meaning suggested by DuncT@8. Many thanks to Pangakupu and manehi. Wishing everyone a pleasant weekend – it’s pretty chilly here at the moment…could do with a good stew 😎

30. Thanks both and I suppose a large log might be a source of smaller logs which would be fuel but to me a log is fuel. And I was foxed by crumble=moulder – no doubt supported by some dictionary but to me they are a good example of different words being needed for different things.

    With all crossers in place I confidently revealed (an un-parsed (I’ll parse it later – there’s a mercenary and NI involved)) MERCIAN to find REDCOAT staring back at me – my bad.

    All good entertainment though: SPITTOON, PRINT MEDIA, BISCOTTI (I’ll just have one thanks), I could go on(GAOLED, CHORAL)….

31. GRILSE swam up from the depths — not a word I’d ever think to use, but I must have met it somewhere. Having looked it up I find it’s a fish that returns to fresh water after only one winter at sea. For the first time, the dictionary says — are there salmon who return more than once? Fry, parr and smolt are also words for stages in a salmon’s development, and — who knew? — as salmon go down to the sea they have to undergo “smoltification,” a process of changing from fresh-water-adapted to salt-water-adapted.

    I don’t think of the Alps as southern either.

    Thanks to Pangakapu and manehi.

32. I was quite happy with FLOG – certainly I’ve used “offload” in the sense of “getting rid of”, which I think FLOG also fits. Less impressed with REDCOAT – I too had Mercian

    That’s the way the cookie, er, moulders. I guess. Thanks Pangakupu, and manehi! Happy Friday…

33. Funny–after our discussion yesterday of cannoli, we get biscotti today. Gervase @ [up there somewhere] thanks for the detail about biscotti / cantucci and wine. In this country, we tend to dunk them in coffee, of course. Doesn’t the word biscotto literally translate as “twice-baked”?

    I shared everyone else’s reservations about paella = stew and the Alps = southern Europe, so I won’t pile on. I hadn’t heard of GRILSE. I got it from the wordplay about a third of the way through the solve; thought “that can’t possibly be a word” and deleted it; then when it was the last light left, dubiously put it back in and hit “check all” to discover today’s jorum.

    I think I’ve seen encomiums more often than encomia, but whichever, the rest of the puzzle deserves some.

34. You are quite likely to break your teeth on biscotti/cantucci unless they are dunked first. Vin santo is a very pleasant choice for the dunking!

35. I also thought of Mercian, but decided it couldn’t possibly parse so discarded it. That was my loi and I cheated in the end.

    Robi @15 I did actually find the Maori helped. I might have got redcoat if I had recognised Whirangi, but on the other side the 2nd A from Arangi helped me to encomia, which I eventually dragged up from the depths of my mind. “-rangi” looked Maori to me, though I was actually thinking of Aorangi (Mt Cook) which by then wouldn’t fit.

    Having written that, I’ve just looked up Aorangi to try and find out if there was an etymological link to DuncT @8’s comments. According to wikipedia, Aorangi is the Northern Maori name of Mt Cook, and it was previously used, but it is now known as Aoraki. A case of too much knowledge, I think.

36. [Oh, and anent our cannoli discussion from yesterday, my BISCOTTI anecdote: I ordered “a biscotto” in a coffee shop once while I was in graduate school, and the batista delightfully shouted, loud enough for the whole place to hear it, “YOU USED THE SINGULAR! OH MY GOD, DID YOU HEAR THAT? HE USED THE SINGULAR! You just made my week!”]

37. [mrpenney @33/36: Great to find a linguistically informed barista! Pre-Brexit a lot of them in the UK were Italian – now the nicety would be lost on most, I fear.

    Yes, biscotto, and the French (borrowed into English) biscuit, does mean ‘twice- cooked’. Originally it referred to ‘ship’s biscuit’: bread which was sliced and then dried out in the oven to lengthen its shelf-life. In fact, cantucci are twice cooked – first in a flattened sausage shape, then sliced diagonally and returned to the oven to dry out and harden. And the usual dunking medium in the UK is also coffee]

38. This ULSTERman loved FLOG and REDCOAT, super clues. Nice Nina.

    Ta Pangakupu @ manehi.

39. NI = 6 Counties, Ulster = 9 Counties, but us children of the troubles don’t care anymore. Give peace a chance💚

40. BTW I didn’t mention the Nina. I did look for it at the end, and found it, only because I know that Polynesian languages have relatively small inventories of letters and there had to be a generous placement of vowels. But I had no idea what it meant, and it couldn’t possibly have helped me solve the puzzle 🙂

41. Gervase @37 & 40: your linguistic versatility never ceases to amaze me. Always enjoy your posts. mrpenny @36: excellent.

42. If PAELLA isn’t a stew what (in one word) is it, then? There seem to be an awful lot of solvers who think the world is full of exact synonyms. If it were, where would be the fun?

43. Oh, and can I set a red herring running? Falstaff’s man Ancient Pistol: didn’t he have a red coat?

44. [Gervase @37: I recently obtained a copy of a friend’s family recipe for an equivalent of cantucci, similarly cut and twice baked, but of Polish/Prussian origin (the borders….you can’t keep ’em straight). It was called “Mandel Brot” which, of course, means “almond bread” but I had never until then even thought about the meaning of the name of the famous mathematician, Benoit B. Mandelbrot of the eponymous set and fractals. Mandelbrot’s funniest line was, when asked what the “B” in the middle of his name stood for simply replied “Benoit B. Mandelbrot”…]

45. Alec @42: It’s a ‘dish’ 🙂

46. Alec @42: when I think of a stew, I imagine a dish that has rather more liquid than paella ever does. Stews are cooked in a closed pan such that the liquid doesn’t dissipate; paella is cooked in an open pan, and isn’t done until the liquid is basically all absorbed or boiled off. Anyway, why insist on one word? It’s a rice dish, in the same family as risotto, biryani, jambalaya, and jollof (to choose examples from four separate continents).

    Jack of Few Trades @44: I actually LOL’d at that one.

47. [JoFT @44: A suitably fractal response!]

48. Zweibach also means “twice baked.” They aren’t nearly as good as cantucci/biscotti.

49. [I knew about the literal meaning of biscotti and biscuit, but it never occurred to me that zweibach (often written in English as zweiback) had the same meaning. This site is always worth a visit — I invariably learn something unexpected.]

50. Re: old/ancient in the REDCOAT clue – perhaps the setter is alluding to the Shakespearean use of ancient as a synonym for ensign?

51. I don’t understand what some people are seeing in the clue for FLOG. For me it is triply weak:
    1) the definition is loose. “Flog” is this context implies selling, whereas “offload” doesn’t necessarily.
    2) Why is a log a source of fuel? If you burn it, it’s a fuel, not a source. (I originally also had an unsatisfactory FOIL; at least “source of fuel” works.)
    3) the surface doesn’t make much sense.

52. This puzzle definitely deserves more effusive comments and surprised by the lack….but I’ll SKIM by on my ICE SKATES , oh I’ve fallen over.
    muffin, I simply saw what the setter intended, don’t understand your gripe.

53. I’m with Lord Jim @20 – the ancient in REDCOAT is intended to misdirect. I thought it a good clue. I can’t work out if this setter is getting better, getting easier, or simply getting more familiar to me but I increasingly enjoy their puzzles. I didn’t think there was anything for the pantheon in here, but nor are there any serious annoyances. Unless, of course, one is looking for them. CHORAL and BISCOTTI my favourites (despite being among my least favourite varieties of music and biscuit respectively).

54. Thanks manehi.
    I usually like Pangakupu but I found his grammar today a little clunky, or maybe just requiring a little more effort from me.
    I think I counted 11 question marks, and only one or two as a cryptic code. They were mainly rhetorical devices in the surface, Pangakupu having a chat with himself.

    I liked NON-VIOLENT and COSIGN best.

    REDCOAT: Well, I didn’t know about the ulster coat. Until I came here, I thought I was clever parsing CO AT as County Antrim (although I could only find the 3 letter abbreviation ANT).

55. Mandarin @53: and there’s the rub. Why criticise the brilliance of these setters? It’s not like they owe us anything. I’m in awe of their cleverness every day. A gift to our immature vocabulary.

56. muffin @51 — II’m puzzled by your point 2, and particularly why you think “source of fuel” doesn’t work for LOG but does for OIL. The objection (“if you burn it, it’s a fuel, not a source”) seems to me to apply far more forcefully to the latter than the former.

    I don’t find 1 particularly convincing either: the two words “flog” and “offload” have the overlapping meaning “sell”, and that’s generally enough. In particular, the fact that one or the other also has other meanings doesn’t seem relevant to me. (If that were a problem, most definitions would suffer from it, as most words in English have multiple meanings.)

    3, on the other hand, I’ll grant you.

57. Ted @56
    Oil is a source of petrol, paraffin, aviation fuel etc. etc. Wood is (or can be) just a fuel.
    Most things offloaded are not sold, just got rid of.

58. I hope you’re not huffin, nuffin 🤣 I would actually like to sit and have a beer with you one day, as you’re the standout along with Eileen and my much missed Roz 3am in Hiroshima, I’m off to sleep x

59. Many thanks, AlanC! I do like beer – though should it be stout in NI?
    Have a good break and trip back.

60. Nothing much to add. Strangely I parsed 5d with “revolting” as the anagrind and “may be turned” as the definition, thinking a rebellious population may be turned against the current regime. A case of not seeing the wood for the trees.
    I also went down the Mercian rabbit hole.
    Thanks, P & m.

61. I had a different misdirection in 15a, spotting red I initially leapt to Red Hand, a traditional symbol of Ulster before deciding that a) I only knew it as 2 words and b) I couldn’t get hand from the rest of the wordplay. At which point I remembered Sherlock Holmes’s coat of choice.

62. CHORAL brought me joy, as did many other clues and manehi’s analysis, thank you both!

63. I couldn’t see ALPINE at all (I’d been trying to fit in SIC for ‘as seen’ – it never occurred to me that the definition would be more than half of the clue!), and that meant I didn’t have the crossing L for PAELLA, and that P would have helped me see PITT in SOON, so a bit of a fail for me.

    And it had all started so swimmingly with the very easy anagram at 5d containing ‘belli’ in the clue and BELLI in the answer. 🤔

    Thanks to Pangakupu and manehi.

64. Jacob @ 23

    Not every child by any means.

    I knew that I’d need to know what a cosine is for most of my life.

    I’d also consider myself a pretty ignorant know-nothing to this day if I didn’t. Who wouldn’t? 😉

    However, knowing that “bottom” is also a rude mechanical does fall into the category that you suggest.

65. Another MERCIAN here, inserted but only partly parsed. Fortunately REDCOAT has the same crossers so there was no collateral damage.

66. I got the COAT part of 15a right away from Ulster, then thought of the “ancient” soldiers as so many others did. The woad they wore led me to try BLUECOAT, but it wouldn’t fit so RED went in instead.

    Valentine@31, thanks for “smoltification” – what a great word.

    AlanC@58, agreed. I too miss Roz – wish she were here.

67. Why is con study?

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