Thank you to Omnibus, whoever you are. Definitions are underlined in the clues.
Apologies again for the late posting (a flat tyre disrupted my schedule).
Across
1, 21. 8’s more likely to break – some might say bust – a US server (6,5)
TAYLOR FRITZ : Spoonerism of(8’s/Rev. Spooner’s) [ “frailer”(more likely to break/not strong) + “tits”(slang for/as some might say, a woman’s breast/bust).
Defn: …/tennis player.
4. Companion to Donner und Blitzen can upset in the German (6)
DANCER : Anagram of(… upset) CAN contained in(in) DER(German for the article “the”).
Defn: …(German for “thunder and lightning”), modified names of the original Dunder and Blixem, 2 of Santa Claus’s reindeer.
8. Oxford don who likes a post-coital cuddle (7)
SPOONER : Double defn: 1st: …, viz. the Reverend William Archibald Spooner, famous for what would be named “spoonerisms”; and 2nd: …, ie. one who likes to lie sideways and close together with a partner, front to back, like spoons fit together – post- or pre- coital even.
9. 8’s eggs and fibre in batter (3,4)
JOE ROOT : Spoonerism of(8’s/Rev. Spooner’s) [ “roe”(fish eggs) “jute”(fibre from the jute plant) ].
Defn: …/batsman in the English cricket team.
11. Thousands and thousands initially inside place where 1/21, 9, 10, 12/20 and 24/26 might be seen (10)
GRANDSTAND : [ GRANDS(plural of a £1000 or $1000) + AND ] containing(… inside) 1st letter of(… initially) “thousands”.
Defn: …/stand from where one might watch the aforementioned sportswomen and sportsmen playing their matches.
12, 20. Scorer seen in 8’s crystal ball (4,4)
BETH MEAD : Spoonerism of(8’s/Rev. Spooner’s) [ “meth”(or crystal meth, the drug methamphetamine) “bead”(a small piece of glass or stone or other material in the shape of a ball).
Defn: …, in this case, the English professional footballer.
13. Note reverberated within? (5)
BREVE : Hidden in(… within) reversal of(… reverberated) “reverberated”.
Defn: A music ….
14. Conquered lands and advanced with old leaders of resistance losing dogfight (3,5)
NEW WORLD : NEW(advanced/modern) + W(abbrev. for “with”) + O(abbrev. for “old”) + 1st letters, respectively, of(leaders of) “resistance losing dogfight”.
16. Condensed e.g. copyright’s length first, and reduced credit (8)
ELLIPTIC : IP(abbrev. for “intellectual property”, a type of which/e.g. is “copyright”) placed after(… first) ELL(a former measure of length) plus(and) last letter deleted from(reduced) “tick”(from the term “on tick”/”on credit”).
Defn: …/concise, in, say, speech.
18. ‘Principle’ is anyway alien to X (5)
TENET : The palindrome(is anyway) [ET(abbrev. for “extraterrestrial”/alien) placed after(to) TEN(number whose Roman numeral is X) ].
20. See 12
21. Smoked, having first of rations cut, made ready for winter (3-7)
FUR-TRIMMED : FUMED(smoked/emitted fumes) containing(having) [ 1st letter of(first of) “rations” + TRIM(to cut away irregular or unwanted parts of a piece of something) ].
23. Announce withdrawal of lawsuit? (7)
DECLAIM : DE-(prefix denoting the removal/withdrawal of) CLAIM(a lawsuit/a formal demand in court to assert one’s ownership of, say, property).
24, 26. Skipper below her best, according to 8 (7,6)
HEATHER KNIGHT : Spoonerism of(8’s/Rev. Spooner’s) [ “nether”(below/lower) “height”(the peak/the point at which something is at its best) ].
Defn: …/captain of the English women’s cricket team.
25. Conduct unbecoming when Carlisle gets together with a zealot (6)
SLEAZE : Hidden in(when) [ “Carlisle” attached to(gets together with) “a zealot” ].
26. See 24
Down
1. Post-operative bottles one drinks? (5)
TOPER : Hidden in(… bottles) “Post-operative”.
Defn: … heavily/a drunkard.
2. You end a riot? Capital! (7)
YAOUNDE : Anagram of(… riot) YOU END A.
Defn: … city of Cameroon.
3. Missed alarm as a result of those faced by 9 and 24/26 – permit to include its first (9)
OVERSLEPT : OVERS(balls bowled to/faced by the cricketers named in solutions to 9 and 24/26) + LET(to permit/allow) containing(to include) 1st letter of(… its first) “permit”.
Defn: … meant to wake one up from sleep.
5. Have nothing to do with nothing in returning prima donna (5)
AVOID : O(letter representing 0/nothing) contained in(in) reversal of(returning) DIVA(a prima donna/a famous singer in opera or pop music).
6. Buffalo Bill back before a boar shot (7)
CARABAO : Reversal of(… back) AC(abbrev. for “account”/a bill/statement showing how much is owed) plus(before) anagram of(… shot) A BOAR.
Defn: …/a water buffalo.
7. Crowd’s customary welcome for 9 includes seedy motel vacancy (4,2,3)
ROOM TO LET : ROOT(to cheer for/crowd’s customary welcome for someone like Joe Root/answer to 9 when coming into the field – “to root for Root”) containing(includes) anagram of(seedy) MOTEL.
10. 8’s judicious bet on England 9 (5,4)
DANNY CARE : Spoonerism of(8’s/Rev. Spooner’s) [ “canny”(judicious/showing good judgement) “dare”(to bet on/to take a risk).
Defn: Rugby player for England who wears jersey No. 9.
13. The faithful repudiate abridged Bible extract (9)
BELIEVERS : BELIE(to repudiate/to disprove) + last letter deleted from(abridged) “verse”(a passage/extract from the Bible).
15. Plant’s advice on how to make Britton grow? (5,4)
WATER FERN : [ WATER FERN ](“add water to” – advice on how to make a plant grow, in this case, a fern(which also is the first name of Fern Britton, English television presenter and author).
One of many varieties:
17. Baby eluding changing (7)
INDULGE : Anagram of(… changing) ELUDING.
Defn: To …/to pamper.
19. Worry about Facebook owner’s identity tracker (4,3)
NAME TAG : NAG(to persistently worry/trouble) containing(about) META(the American technology company that owns Facebook, the social media and networking service).
21. See 1 Across
22. A special occasion for an online rant? (5)
EVENT : E-(prefix denoting something that can be accessed online/is in electronic form) + VENT(to rant/to bring into the open by speaking angrily and passionately).
Got completely stumped because half-day through, having sussed the theme, I decided 5D must be HARRY KANE. Unfortunately I got the England 9 in the wrong code!
Thanks scchua
Further to yesterday’s discussion, I went for the key clue first, solved it, then nearly threw the puzzle away; they are my least favourite type of clue, and there were some particularly awful ones today. Together with the obscure sportspeople (I follow sports, but had never heard of the tennis player or footballer), this was a very unenjoyable puzzle.
I failed to understand most of the spoonerisms even knowing the answer, and as a Briton, I found the general knowledge too obscure. Fern Britton sounds only vaguely familiar, never heard of Heather Knight or Danny Care, and I’m supposed to know he wears No. 9? Maybe Taylor Fritz was thrown in to help US solvers, never heard of him either.
Favourite was Yaounde.
Extraordinary puzzle. Some super clues (1a/21d made me laugh) and some, well, less so… 24/26 seems a bit of a stretch. Not sure about the reversal indicator in 13a. Anyway, quibbles. Am I right in thinking Omnibus is a consortium of setters who have appeared before? My memory isn’t up to the task of remembering such thing. Many thanks to the mysterious O and to scchua for the untangling job.
Re. 7 down, the framing ROOT has, I think, a specific application rather than a generic one. It has become customary for crowds at cricket matches, when Joe Root comes to the crease, or does anything notable while there, to chant his surname in a elongated ‘Roooooooot’.
A lot of hate for this puzzle on the G comments thread, but I had few problems with it, Mr FRITZ being the only NHO among the other sporting personages referred to.
This was not so much a DNF as a DN Start. I got maybe half a dozen including the straightforward anagrams and the gimme at 19D before deciding this was going to be a combination of GK I don’t possess and elaborate constructions beyond my skill level.
After glancing through the blog there’s a couple more I might have gotten had I stared long enough, but not enough to make me regret throwing in the towel.
“If this is what the Guardian consider to be general knowledge for the hypothetical man on the Clapham omnibus, they must get taxis everywhere. And 1/21 is the sort of joke that got Gregg Wallace into trouble.”
This was the comment i made on the crossword that was immediately removed for going against their community standards. Because, well of course it did, obviously.
The call of ‘Root’ when he goes out to bat is the customary welcome rather than the more general rooting for someone. Scorer seems odd for Beth Mead – as goalkeeper she’s the least likely player to score.
How does “reverberated” in 13A indicate a reversal? Reverberate means to echo, surely, i.e. the same sound again, not the same sound backwards?
And isn’t “reverberated” doing double duty?
I do hate to sound ungrateful for a crossword, and from some comments I think this might be a composite of readers’ offerings, but, aside from needing (to me) esoteric sports knowledge there were clunky surfaces. Spoonerisms are great when they make sense, but ‘Roe Jute’ doesn’t. Did like ELLIPTIC and NAME TAG. Thanks to scchua for the detailed blog, and to Omnibus, despite my misgivings.
I loved it! Took me quite a while to figure out what was going on though.
I thought BETH MEAD, DANNY CARE and TAYLOR FRITZ were brilliant clues. I guess you’d have to follow sport to know them though.
Thanks Omnibus (seemed very Paul to me) and scchua
I can understand that this may not have been amenable to all, but I can’t understand why some solvers take such umbrage, as if the editor has set out to ruin their day. It’s a free crossword, for pity’s sake, and I have high admiration for anyone who can set a decent cryptic clue – heaven knows, I’ve tried, and my efforts have all been garbage.
For me, this crossword involved a lot of dredging, but I enjoyed it, and felt most satisfied to finish it.
Omnibus, whoever you are: As last blogged “One previous Guardian cryptic, from 2005, has appeared under the name Omnibus, and was announced as a compilation of clues submitted by Guardian readers.”
Hated [most of] this, but it made me feel so bloody-minded that I slogged through it to the bitter end. And as a result was late for an appointment to get my new hearing aids tweaked.
(Wayne Blackburn @8 Beth Mead is a striker, not a goalkeeper!)
Beth Mead a goalkeeper? According to Wikipedia she plays as a forward and has 100 goals and assists in the WSL.
A joyless slog for one lacking the requisite general knowledge, I’m sorry to say.
What a beast this turned out for me…the first few were rather bunged in without much idea about the parsing, and as I didn’t know SPOONER was an Oxford Don or that Spooning was the norm post-coital sex – lighting up a fag might be another variation – it took a while to realise the keyword. With JOE ROOT in early, (and out pretty quickly in NZ this morning) I suspected some kind of cricketing or sporting theme. Even the Spoonerisms didn’t seem quite precise – with TAYLOR FRITZ when I had to reveal this nho person I was tinkering with Failer rather than Frailer and was shrugging my shoulders about its validity as one for a while.
A clever concept, but too many difficult ones for me this morning, though did enjoy the construction of those I did manage to solve by parsing…
I had to look her up to check, but actually Beth Mead is a forward, not the goalkeeper.
Gave up on this. I didn’t know any of the sports people so not much chance. But last week I was too busy to do the Arachne puzzle and put aside the paper to tackle it later – and I still have the paper so going to do that instead.
TheGreatArturo@12 I quite agree.
If I had paid for this then I would feel it was below the usual standard.
But it’s free.
The editor has clearly decided to take a punt and try something different. Always worth a shot. Especially after being on strike for two days.
I, personally, preferred Fed on Wednesday. But Horses for Courses. This may have enraptured someone else, rarely served.
Pretty much what TGA said @12:
I can see why this puzzle would irritate some solvers… particularly the non-Brits, and it took me a great deal of Googling to get there. But let’s keep in mind how much we value the excellent variance of the Graun crozzie and celebrate this one’s quirkiness.
Vive la difference, say I.
I gave up on this quite quickly, as I did yesterday’s. I revealed a few to make a start, figured out a couple of answers but it was giving me no pleasure at all. The sports stuff and the spoonerisms (roe/jute to Joe Root – never would have reached that!) and the linked clues – not my cup of tea. This kind of cryptic is quite a leap for a beginner. I’ll look forward instead to tomorrow’s Quick Cryptic.
MCourtney @20: sorry to appear to have simply copied your post. Slow typist.
[Managed to complete this without Googling, despite not having heard of most of the “…people in ‘t.”]
Well, we enjoyed it – despite never having heard of any of the sportspeople (apart from Joe Root). We had to construct names and look then up, apart from Beth Mead, where I suggested we just look at the England Women’s fottball team. Some fun clues in there, and a cracking anagram – ELUDING/INDULGE.
(Taylor Fritz was a finalist this year at the US Open and very recently the ATP finals. He’s the world number 4. Hardly obscure in the world of sport.)
And it was fun to see BREVE NEW WORLD across the middle. It is indeed a brave new word that has such people in it as the compilers that make up Omnibus
TheGreatArturo @12 – I do pay for the Guardian as an online subscriber, so am I entitled not to have enjoyed this and be annoyed by the obscure sportsmen and women clued by excruciating Spoonerisms, my least favourite clue? I also thought TAYLOR FRITZ was tasteless to say the least.
I solved it by googling the required sporting personages, of whom I knew Beth Mead and Joe Root. And had parsed it all, reluctantly.
Thank you to scchua for the blog and sorting out this puzzle.
Too many unknowns plus interrelated clues plus a complicated concept = too much like hard work for me, though others may have loved it. Gave up and revealed several.
Of the ones I solved, I liked EVENT, DANCER and SLEAZE. Oh, and I discovered that CARABAO isn’t just a Cup in football.
I perservered with this but I am afraid it’s really not for me for reasons already stated. Many thanks to scchua for the enlightening blog, I think you got the short straw this week. On a positive note, it’s good to see some commentators appreciated Omnibus, and the weekend beckons.
muffin@2 et al: I agree. In some ways a clever puzzle, but I detested it and kept going only from masochism. Clues for obscure sports people based on dodgy Spoonerisms is not a good idea. I have to assume that Omnibus (from the Latin “for everyone”) is meant ironically.
I don’t like spoonerism clues nor puzzles that require a lot of “general knowledge”. Enough said.
Spoonerisms are not my favourite type of clue, but that didn’t trouble me as SPOONER was my penultimate solution. Only then did the parsing make sense.
I found it an enjoyable puzzle on the whole, so thanks Omnibus and scchua.
I really disliked this. Too many clues depend on the answers to others, and sport is not my area of expertise (though that’s fine, as we all have our weak spots). I got SPOONER fairly quickly, but I ran out of steam a third of the way through. It felt as if the setter was trying to be a bit too clever. Joyless.
Hated this with a passion, which I seem to remember was what I said about the last Omnibus puzzle. The worst Guardian setter by some distance. Quite like the odd Spoonerism, but this was plain daft (and annoying). Never heard of (or care about) Taylor Fritz, Danny Care or Heather Knight and didn’t know cricket fans liked to greet a certain Mr Root by chanting his surname. A truly awful crossword.
weak spoonerisms, and the gate-way clue itself weak.
I wonder if the regular setters have joined the strike..?
and just a thought, but where specialised knowledge
is required, perhaps a second thread should be introduced
so it isn’t a complete write-in . if yr unfamiliar with either
it won’t be any harder…
Andy Doyle @7. I got the same treatment, after unfavourably comparing today’s offering with something my dog threw up. Perhaps the setter(s) should be renamed Omnishambles.
Completed, but without much pleasure. Too many linked clues and meaningless Spoonerisms are two of my pet hates.
Tennis is the one sport I follow, so TAYLOR FRITZ was well known to me, although I did toy with Taylor Swift because I solved it before cracking the keyword (but like ronald @17 I failed to parse it, wondering what ‘failer trits’ was supposed to mean. Having seen the correct version, I’m not sorry).
Eyebrow raised at the double duty for ‘reverberated’, but I did like BELIEVERS and NAME TAG.
Cleverly constructed, Omnibus, but less of this, please, and thanks and commiserations to scchua
If I hadn’t been on a five-day streak I would have abandoned this one. The spoonerisms all seem forced and unnatural and who cares about obscure sports people & UK tv celebrities? I used the check button all the way through, went through the alphabet and consulted Wikipedia often but I don’t feel enriched by the experience. EVENT was nice.
Like others, really hated this. “Solved” this with a friend but we mutually agreed to abandon it and wasted too much of my time all said. As a certain Simpson’s character may say “Worst crossword ever!”.
Scchua thanks, but Omnibus no thanks.
Yuk
Quirky and tricky! I found the combination of working out a spoonerism and identifying a sportsperson in the same clue (guess and google) to be hard work.
But of the other non-spooner, non-sportsperson clues, there were some nice ones.
As an Aussie, while I had only heard of Joe Root and Taylor Fritz, it was good to see a couple of English sportswomen included.
Reactions to spoonerisms seem quite individual, as with homonyms. Some of these worked for me, others not so much. I think the ‘spooner’ version needs to make some internal sense, so the canny dare and the meth bead worked for me.
I liked GRANDSTAND, NEW WORLD, ROOM TO LET in the seedy motel, ELLIPTIC, TENET, NAME TAG.
Thanks to Omnibus for the challenge and to scchua for untangling it all.
I agree with 2 Muffin. I have no knowledge of any women’s sport, or for that matter anything football or rugby related. Test cricket is ok.
Most unenjoyable crossword
Very much “one man’s meat is another man’s poison”. Many people (hello muffin @2, Shanne @28, among others) loathe Spoonerisms. I get that.
I find them delightful, and the more excruciatingly contrived the better. TAYLOR FRITZ was one of the most outrageous (and therefore, to someone with my taste, superb) I’ve seen for ages. I guffawed.
And what is decidedly un-Gregg Wallace about this puzzle is that BETH MEAD is pretty good too) is simply clued as a “scorer”, not a “sportswoman”; Heather Knight’s gender is only mentioned as a matter of grammar.
Tough – after about a quarter of an hour I’d only cracked a couple of clues, and I needed a word-finder to locate the last three answers – but, for me, most enjoyable. Thank you, Omnibus, whoever you are; and thank you also to our unexpectedly deflated blogger.
As a compiler myself who enthusiastically embraces Spoonerisms but who knows that many solvers and indeed bloggers (waves at Eileen) are not keen at all, I don’t think “frailer tits” has done much for the cause.
I was in two minds about this. I appreciate the originality and the inclusion of some sportswomen but I agree with the principle that both versions of a Spoonerism should mean something and frailer tits and meth bead don’t seem to pass this test. I spent some time trying to make sense of Carry Hain.
A marmite puzzle, based on the comments so far? For me this is what a puzzle should be – a challenge. I wasn’t deflated (unlike our moderator!). Thanks O & S.
In the Guardian blog one of the comments was “It seems that this puzzle is assembled from clues written by Guardian readers.” If that’s the case, sorry to all concerned but I can’t say I am a fan.
I solved 9ac due to having solved 7d but could not parse 9ac as I had not solved 8ac! Guessed that 8ac was SPOONER as it made sense compared to 9ac which I had already solved.
I couldn’t parse 1/21 – I know of him as I saw him play in a Grand Slam tennis match final over the summer; 16ac, 19d.
I wondered why there was no indicator of reversal in the clue for 13ac.
25ac – this is a weird form of a ‘hidden in’ clue.
New for me: CARABAO but it is similar to kerbau which means the same thing in Bahasa Indonesia; BETH MEAD; HEATHER KNIGHT; FERN Britton (for 15d); DANNY CARE.
TheGreatArturo@12, MCourtney@20, William@21 and possibly others – sorry but I stopped reading comments soon after this – I guess you mean the puzzle is free for those who do it online and do not subscribe? (in which case we get a lot of ads).
If you’re not paying for the product, you are the product or in other words:
“There is no such thing as free on the Internet. Usually, you get something for free and in return, you get tracked.” In any case, whether it is free or not, I think we all have the right to comment on the quality of puzzles published by the Guardian, don’t we?
Shanne@28 – I support your comments.
Oh my god. This was my Kryptonite. I don’t follow rugby, tennis, cricket or football. Trying to guess spoonerisms of names you don’t know (I knew Joe Root for some reason, I guess because it is a memorable name, but nobody else) where the sport is cryptically clued is just impossible.
There are about eight clues in there I would not get if someone gave me a paragraph long definition: Water Fern, Yaounde, Carabao and all of the sports people.
This felt like I had accidentally blundered into one of those “the hardest crossword in the world” challenges Mark and Simon do on Cracking the Cryptic.
I don’t doubt, for one moment, that all the people involved thoroughly enjoyed creating this.
So there’s that, at least.
Alas, as the majority of the above comments bear evidence, they clearly forgot about us mere mortals who might try to solve it.
(btw, I subscribe to the Guardian, so this wasn’t “free” – and if it were possible, I’d ask for my money back.)
I’m another who bloody-mindedly gritted their teeth and ploughed on to the bitter end. Whereupon I noticed that I’d scrawled FFS! next to 9 different clues. This is a personal record (it even beat the notorious Everyman based on BBC Radio 4 programmes).
As for the egregious TAYLOR FRITZ “spoonerism”, the less said the better.
I whole-heartedly agree with Shanne @28, Blaise @13, Ricardo @39 and Andy Doyle @7.
I will steer clear of any future offerings from “Omnibus”.
scchua, you definitely drew the short straw today: well done!!
I hope the compiler(s) and editor are taking some perverse pleasure in the protests of those dragged unwillingly from their comfort zones. All crosswords are a waste of time, and so therefore was this one, but many who completed it seem to have learned things they didn’t previously know, even if they assert how little they wanted this knowledge. And the Spoonerisms are just a matter of taste; nobody has suggested they made the puzzle unfairly hard to solve. Personally I am quite happy to see Omnibus again providing something a bit different.
I love my sport but the only one I had heard of was Joe Root. I think Danny Car was familiar.
I also don’t really get Spoonerisms either.
So not for me.
Thanks both.
In the spirit of “any landing you can walk away from is a good landing”, I guess that any crossword you can finish is a good one – so this one qualifies, if you ignore the wreckage 😉 I’m surprised no-one has commented on 25A – using “when” to indicate a hidden word seems very weak to me (and that’s being generous)…
Absolutely loathed this. Sloppy cluing and the smug assumption that everyone will be enthralled by wasting tine trying to decipher Spoonerisms leading to the identity of largely obscure sports people (Joe Root excepted.)
Unusually gave up in disgust with less than half the grid complete.
And this blog serves to highlight a beef of mine that I have blathered on about before.
After a crossword that generated an awful lot of negative criticism on the Guardian site, surely it behoves the blogger to come off the fence and make a stand, comment on the difficulty/enjoyability or whatever of the puzzle. Just a sentence (instead of a bland expression of thanks) could have sufficed.
And no amount of pretty pictures makes up for a lack of opinion, (in my humble….)
As some people have mentioned, the only justification for a Spoonerism is if it makes sense either way round = the classic, attributed to Spooner himself (possibly apocryphally), is “you have hissed all my mystery lessons, you have tasted a whole worm, leave by the next town drain”.
None of these did. In particular, what is ROE JUTE?
I enjoyed this. Something different for a change. I wouldn’t mind betting that a well known setter from Brighton had a hand in this. Lots of cross referencing and a bit of smut. Ok not everyone’s cup of tea but hey ho can’t please everyone. Also super blog!
baerchen @46 – but you’re one of the very few who know how to do them! 😉
I’m totally with muffin @56 and others who don’t see the point of them if they don’t make any sense. I appreciate a good one when I see it – and always say so.
Way above my pay grade (and, for context, I have in recent months solved some puzzles by paul and Io). Managed most of the RHS and a few others, but found it far too frustrating and discouraging to be enjoyable. Thanks all.
Gave up after 55 minutes with only five answers in for certain. In hindsight I should’ve given up much earlier, especially as I’d only heard of one of the sportspeople involved.
I have a different approach to many others here, which gets me through puzzles like this. While non-cryptics are clearly tests of general knowledge, I view cryptics as test of being able to figure out what is wanted. So in 24,26 for example, I saw “Skipper … her” and googled “england women’s football captain”, and when that didn’t work substituted cricket for football. HEATHER KNIGHT satisfied the spoonerism, barely, so I figured I had done due diligence and entered it. You get the idea.
My gripes about the puzzle were about other things (other than the rotten spoonerisms, that is). For example, SPOONing doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with sex, the NEW WORLD weren’t the only conquered lands (just about everywhere has been at some time), “when” does not indicate “hidden” for SLEAZE.
Finally, as ArkLark@26 indicates, TAYLOR FRITZ has earned a mention, but given his relative newness in championship tennis, maybe a different clue would have been more suitable for him.
A tough solve. Worked out that the first name in 10D must be DANNY, from the Spoonerism, then did a pattern search, recognised CARE as a rugby player, looked up his Wikipedia entry, discovered he was a scrum half, then coming from a school that didn’t play rugby, had to look up the scrum half’s jersey number: 9. Phew!
LOI 16A – unfamiliar with that definition.
Needless to say my sport-hating missus left this one to me!
Not only a free crossword but one which took lots of time to solve, even better value! We like a bit of difficulty, a challenge as some else pointed out, and we hadn’t heard of any of the sports people except Joe root( and only him because he’s appeared in several crosswords over the last few weeks.) But it was at least new and different and we finished (just). Thanks to omnibus and schuaa
I can understand why some detested this but I thought it was quirky and good fun with some interesting Spoonerisms and now I know who he was. More please, rather than less.
Ta Omnibus & scchua.
I was in a bad mood anyway after wrestling with a Christmas tree and wrenching my back. After a while I managed to get SPOONER but then when I saw there was no reversal indicator for BREVE (and I didn’t get far enough to see ‘when’ being used as a hidden indicator), I gave up.
Thanks to scchua. And commiserations to the folk on the London Omnibus.
Andy @7 I am always amazed that the UKs most liberal newspaper is fine with misogyny in its crosswords, but it is. Breasts are very funny apparently.
Jonathan @37 it was certainly a dog’s dinner and it’s entirely possible that the poor pooch would struggle to keep it down
Baerchen @46 I am very partial to a Spoonerism but the best of these were weak and the rest just useless. Like you, I fear this has done the cause no good at all.
This made me appreciate the fantastic standard of the puzzles that we get from our regular setters
There, I found something positive to say 🙂
And for some reason it inspired me to dream up this clue: A new low for Member of Parliament (3)
Cheers S&O
I don’t like people’s names in crosswords and I abhor lots of them!
I finished it but in no way was it enjoyable…
Personally I find linked clues an agreeable challenge & I follow sports, & tolerate Spoonerisms, so this was a stimulating work-out for me. Conversely I don’t garden or go bird-watching, so know nothing about plants or birds, but don’t feel the need to complain when clues require such knowledge or to denigrate other people’s hobbies as worthless. As it happens I’ve never heard of a “water fern” & was able to get the answer only because Fern Britton rang a faint bell. Should I now be complaining about this obscure plant’s inclusion?
Well I enjoyed it.
I cannot remember when I disliked a puzzle more.
Bodycheetah@67…another clue to annoy all those who dislike obscure sporting clues, (‘owls of protest in fact) but meat and drink for those long suffering Sheffield Wednesday supporters.
And on the same theme, I have rather missed the absent Roz on here too, with her ongoing banter with AlanC about the fortunes of KPR football club since Charles ascended the throne.🙂
Well, it rather seems that people don’t like crosswords that require them to know things outside their interests. People describe me as a big sports fan, but this is not the case – I’m a big football fan. So I too almost wrote in Harry Kane for England’s no. 9 in 10d. But it wasn’t him. Good for the setter(s?). He/she/they fooled me. The very reason I do crosswords – to keep mentally agile. Nobody ever seems to moan when there is a reference to a (to me) little-known Shakespeare character or horticultural term. Popular culture is also a foreign land to me, but obviously not to others, so fair play if such things are included.
Having said that I do think that the key 8a needed a “?” as spooning does not necessarily mean post-coital nor does post-coital necessarily mean spooning. I sometimes scratch my head during dinner, but not always and sometimes in other situations, so head-scratching does not equal dinner. And “baby” as a verb in 17d? New to me. Elliptic = condensed ditto.
As for Joe Root (I had heard of him!) – you have to admire the fact he wears the number 66 on his shirt! Why Leicester City’s footballer Harry Winks isn’t given 40 is a mystery.
I enjoyed it.
It was just about in my ability range – I did all clues bar 4 which my wife finished quickly. I like spoonerisms and the sporting theme was also to my liking.
Guardian do keep trying variations on the types of crossword / clues.
monkeypuzzler @73 – I like the Harry Winks number!!
Not a good puzzle, weak spoonerisms and clunky surfaces.. All the sports names were new to me (apart from Root) which would have been ok if they had been indicated by better clues. Of course it’s always subjective when specialist knowledge comes into crosswords.
…so do I HIYD@75, hilarious, well done with that Monkeypuzzler@73. Maybe there’s a few more of those to be discovered in the same vein. Me scratching my own head now…
I thoroughly enjoyed completing this. One person’s obscurity is another person’s easy answer. Having been involved with rugby union all my life Danny Care was a simple write-in. The other sports people were less obvious but gettable from the crossers and spoonerisms. Yes, Beth Mead was a particularly tricky one, but once BEAD became obvious a little Googling got me home. To be fair I do share the distaste for Fritz.
My lack of GK is music so I have to work very hard at the wordplay and make liberal use of internet searching to arrive at answers. I don’t think it’s unfair to have people who aren’t interested in sport to have to do the same every now and then.
It’s pleasant to have a crossword that plays to my strengths. I will now take my smug face and treat it to a nice cup of coffee.
Dr Whatson@61, horses for courses but SPOONER, NEW WORLD and SLEAZE all work well for me. In the first two we’re given ‘examples of’ not exclusive synonyms, but then isn’t that always the way? In the third ‘when’ is telling us to think what word emerges ‘when’ [Carli]sle is placed ‘together with’/alongside a ze[alot].
“Interesting” puzzle but a complete solving fail for me. Always struggle with Spoonerisms and lack the UK GK to crack several clues. Some very clever touches, though.
“Wah wah wah, this puzzle expected me to know about things that have happened later than 1957, gurn gurn gurn”
monkeypuzzler @73: My complaint wasn’t about the sports persons – I never complain about GK which is unknown to me – but about all the cross-linking and meaningless Spoonerisms.
Several posters have commented on the ‘obscurity’ of TAYLOR FRITZ. In fact, as the current no 4 male tennis player, I would suggest that he is probably the LEAST obscure of the people in the puzzle, to anyone outside of Little England 🙂
The comments are proof of a long-held suspicion that there are not many of us sitting in the middle of the Venn diagram of crossword solvers, those who like playing with language and lovers of sport. How strangely defiant some are that there should be no defilement. An excellent diversion.
Several recent comments have misunderstood the problem with the sportspeople clues. It isn’t the presence of them per se, it’s the quality of the clues.
FRAILER TITS
ROE JUTE
METH BEAD
NETHER HEIGHT
All nonsense!
CANNY DARE just about makes some sense.
Utterly joyless: I just hope this weird puzzle hasn’t discouraged solvers new to Cryptics.
Ever perverse, I actually derived much bloody-minded satisfaction from facing down two of my usual crossword pet hates: Spoonerisms and sporting (especially cricket) references. I suspect both were chosen precisely because of the ire they would rouse. Thanks to all.
MattS@79 I see what you are saying, but I’m not really convinced. Sure we clue things by their superordinate category, but for example you can spoon without sex, or cuddle after sex without spooning, so I still don’t think it works. The NEW WORLD was no more conquered than anywhere else, so what role is “conquered” playing? As for SLEAZE, the “when” indicates the word appears when the phrases are juxtaposed, but it doesn’t say how: is it hidden, is it alternate letters, is it the whole thing? Apologies for being grumpy, I woke up with a rotten cold.
I think it’s hilarious that people think things they haven’t heard of are “obscure” or “esoteric”. All the sports people named here are extremely well known, playing at the highest international levels in their respective fields. Seems like sour grapes to me.
Not much fun and probably only published because of the strike at the Guardian.
muffin @84 – perhaps you could clarify matters by explaining how the contents of the example cited @56 make sense. What is a mystery lesson or a town drain, and what is tasting a whole worm supposed to entail?
Well, I didn’t finish this but I learned a lot thanks to Scchua’s excellent blog. I never mind being beaten by a real challenge. I prefer it to a write-in.
Van Winkle @90
You could hiss a mystery lesson ( a lesson on esoterics, perhaps), taste a whole worm (though probably not on purpose), and a town drain certainly exists. More than could be said for a ROE JUTE!
Well, I enjoyed completing it, but mainly because I did complete it. I found its disjointed style a bit untidy – indicative of joint compilation, perhaps.
I didn’t work out SPOONER until near the end, because having solved JOE ROOT early on, and not thinking through the parsing, I was locked in to looking for a word that implied ‘sportsperson’ or ‘athlete’. That mistaken connection then enabled me to solve all the connected clues until CANNY DARE came along at the last.
Thanks to scchua and everyone on the bus.
Van Winkle @90
Spoonerism: You Have Hissed All My Mystery Lectures
Did finally complete this, without much enjoyment. Since the key clue, 8 across, was my last one in, I’d actually worked out the sportspeople based on the number of letters and the rest of their clues without ever realising that they were Spoonerisms!
Orcwood @ 89 Unlikely, given that puzzles are scheduled about three weeks in advance.
This wasn’t for me. I battled gamely but had to reveal several in the end, partly from a lack of GK and partly out of losing patience with what, to my mind, seemed needlessly niche named sportspeople, clued with spoonerisms. Spoonerisms, ok. Niche names, ok. But spoonerisms to clue a niche name? Not ok.
There were some nice clues but they got thoroughly lost in the sea of irritation in which I ended up swimming.
Ah well, you can’t please all of the people all of the time.
Gervase@82 – especially after the much-publicised attendance of his even more illustrious namesake at the US Open final.
I enjoyed it a lot despite leaving a fair bit unfinished. NHO Taylor Fritz (tennis is a sport I find really dull to watch so have no interest) or Danny Care, but I don’t mind.
It was different, and I like different as mentioned before (and I also subscribe to the G, don’t want my money back obvs.)
Not sure about the controversy surrounding the Fritz spoonerism. I know plenty of women who’d refer to their own bust in that way – and if it’s OK with them it’s fine by me. (I often use the phrase “freezing my tits off” myself, but mine isn’t a bust, so doesn’t really count).
‘Dinnae Care’ for the sports theme but that’s on me.
‘When’ is a particularly poor indicator for hidden in SLEAZE though and tighter editing would have improved the crossword greatly.
Loved this, a fun solve for me. Yes you could sort of see that many of these clues were unlikely to have sprung from any of The Guardian’s regular setters, but a slightly different challenge once in a while is fine with me. I’ll freely admit that knowing most of the sports people was a big help, and I agree the spoonerisms were a bit groan-worthy ! Amused to see so many getting hoity about the TAYLOR FRITZ spoonerism. Thanks to scchua for a fine blog, and to Omnibus (or should that be Omnibuses ?)
poc@31 Omnibus is also Latin for by or from everyone.
Muffin @84 I agree. It’s the quality of the clues.
I also pay for the puzzle – by buying the paper. I seem to be in the minority.
Nope.
Well, I’ve read through all the comments above, but it’s been very depressing. This crossword wasn’t for me, most of the names were well outside my knowledge. But what does that matter? What I love about the Guardian crossword is its variety. Some days I’ll like the crossword more than others. That’s absolutely fine. The last thing I want is a lowest common denominator offering every day.
What muffin @2 said (apart from Spoonerisms which I like, the more groan-worthy the better) and quite a few others apparently. I gave up about half way having incorrectly bunged in Taylor Swift.
[Zoot at 101 et al
I have a subscription to the paper, which is delivered every day. However I always do the crossword on a printout, so that I’m not preventing the rest of the family from reading the paper.]
muffin @84 I agree that the spoonerised expressions absolutely should make sense – they should also trigger a familiar rhyming echo in the memory banks. That’s never going to happen with the B-listers presented today. It’s simply not 🏏.
PELE, PARKINSON, WOGAN, LETTERMAN, BOYCOTT, WOODS, MESSI, ALI, NADAL
Zoot@101, POC@31, et al. This seems an opportune moment to offer this for the 1% of visitors to this site who are not already fans: https://youtu.be/4UgBZfInBlU?
Ricardo @106: By your definition Spooner himself never made a spoonerism if you believe the Wiki. Apparently Kinkering Kongs for Conquering Kings is the only one he claimed as his own. Everything else is apparently apocryphal.
I’d suggest that maybe the rules are much much looser than you are demanding.
Finished the puzzle, but only by looking up a group of people that I had never heard of. Could be the least enjoyable puzzle I have seen in the Guardian in a long time, maybe ever.
I love Spoonerisms. This was awful.
Just to add my voice to the chorus of disapproval.
Thank you all for taking the time to comment. Today’s crossword was actually a psychological experiment designed to see how much irritation could be inflicted upon its solvers. Sadly some of you seem to have actually enjoyed it! Must do better next time
muffin @05 [My remark about buying the paper wasn’t aimed at you. It was a reply to all those talking about free crosswords. Perhaps I should have put it in a separate post. I thought a new paragraph was enough. Sorry.]
Ricardo @06 JOE ROOT is no B-lister. More test runs and centuries than any other Englishman and all but four others anywhere.
Omnibus@112,
Comment of the day, if not of the month !! 😁
Omnibus@12, , if you are who you say you are, and what you’ve said is true, this is not at all funny. And the Editor should not allow Guardian solvers/readers/subscribers to be manipulated in this way. They stopped those psychological experiments years ago. Or is your post just one big ”joke” too? Maybe too subtle for me?
JuliusCaesar @69
Thank you. Totally agree. Any subject area is fair game. You win some and you lose some.
Omnibus @112: excellent and ronald @ 72, alas, I do miss Roz’s cutting comments as well, mostly at my expense. I hope she keeps a beady eye on this forum, even if she doesn’t comment.
@Admin. Can you confirm the bona fides of the moniker Omnibus as setter, or another poster who’s come in via the back door?
Humour is all well and good but we do need to have some confidence as to who’s posting.
If it’s the Guardian playing tricks we need to know. Or if someone has assumed the identity of a setter, i hope you will deal with that as you have had to before.
I deeply regret that we appear to have lost Roz, a valued
contributor and much mised (from comments on 15sq) over the Ludwig fiasco, which divided people, some seeing it as funny, others as a trick on solvers.
I pay for the puzzle by subscribing to The Guardian online. I thought this was not so much a puzzle but rather a quiz on sports knowledge.
I confess to post 112 – thought a little humour might redeem the day, and did not believe myself to be impersonating anyone given the claims that Omnibus is a collection of reader clues. Apologies to paddymelon, I had not realised that the Guardian had actually experimented on its solvers before… Which puzzle was it, so that I might educate myself?
Mrs. E and I finished this puzzle this morning, relieved that we still have a roof.
Andy Doyle, 7,
I really don’t know what the Guardian’s community standards are meant to be, but then, they did get rid of Steve Bell for drawing a caricature that was, er, a caricature. He was also actually funny – more serious still perhaps.
Mr. Eko 81,
Quite!
Cheers all.
Is this a record for number of comments?
Thanks for fessing up Gillafox @121, and in that light, your post is very funny. As I said, it may have been too subtle for me, but JohnB and AlanC clearly got it.
I’m just a bit touchy after the Ludwig thing, which ended up in us losing Roz.
It wasn’t actually a ”psychological experiment”, but some (only some) of us, me included, thought that the Editor overstepped the mark in co-compiling a crossword linked to a BBC program called Ludwig, under the pseudonym Ludwig. Ominibus just has some similarity in wondering who is Omnibus, and why has it been submitted without some signposting? Others don’t have the same objections, and maybe have a better sense of humour. I think they both would have been better received if their provenance was made clear.
.
Interesting question simonc@123. The Ludwigs also had a very high number of comments. The crosswords editor stirring the pot again.
Given the interlinked themed clues, it seems unlikely that all of this puzzle can have been compiled from miscellaneous readers’ submissions. Maybe one day we’ll find out.
I’ve tended to enjoy the majority of Spoonerisms I’ve solved, but not the ones in this puzzle. I persevered with this until a few minutes ago, but hitting reveal for approximately half the grid was the right thing to do.
Alas, I found this a horrible puzzle. Clunky Spoonerisms, obscure sporting references, 1AC in very poor taste, clues uneven throughout. How did this get past the editor? If it was an experiment, then IMHO it failed.
I had a very similar experience to most others. Never heard of the alternative name for the water buffalo – CARABAO is the name of the current sponsor of the EFL Cup, so maybe this could have been made to fit a sporting theme? Never heard of the scrum half or the tennis player, and “nether height” doesn’t really equate to ‘not at her best’, does it. And as for “frailer breasts”…
If the speculation about the origin of some, at least, of these clues is close to the mark, then the editor has been too closely involved in compiling this crossword and would have benefited from the help of someone prepared to speak truth to power.
Thanks to scchua for your efforts with the blog.
The harder I find a puzzle, the greater my thrill at any success I may achieve. Also, since I believe the journey is as important as the destination, a half-completed puzzle which amused me is satisfaction enough. Spooning can be satisfaction enough, without being pre- or post- anything.
In theory, nice combination of sports persons and spoonerisms. In practice both are too culture bound to be enjoyed by an alien interloper! Also the spoonerisms seemed laboured to me!
I found it an intriguing puzzle that kept me interested and baffled until finishing it half an hour ago. Count me an enthusiast in spite of everything. I agree with William @ a long way back: Vive la difference.
Thank god that BET was DARE and not the PUNT that I guessed
Absolutely no problem with the inclusion of multiple sportspeople as answers (although it seems to have brought out the worst in a number of people holding their pastime as a higher virtue than that of those sweaty sports oiks), and quite liked that they were all clued in the same fashion. The clue for Taylor Fritz was very on the edge, though.
8’s explosive joint-guardian, a setter for everyone?? (7)
[@131 – distasteful, and not even witty; who is named Panny, in any case?]
Van Winkle @ 83 – Hear, hear!
I was entertained by solving this puzzle, and that’s good enough for me. If not the most pleasant solve I’ve experienced, I still can’t see it deserving of much of the criticism aimed at it…
I disagree with the rude commenter @55 as I cannot see why sschua should be expected to voice his opinion and I personally enjoy his wonderfully illustrated blogs…. [Gillafax@121 – your pseudonymous comment might have been funny had it not followed an identical suggestion already made in a (much) earlier comment. Perhaps you felt it OK to say your piece without reading others’ comments first? Paddymelon@125 – it was pretty obviously a hoax posting, if not original and so unfunny, surely? Shanne@28 – “tasteless to say the least” …. Oh, come off it; be serious or, at least, less unfair. Only a few here have had the same thought as you! simonc@123 – I think there were some even longer threads during the Pandemic, but regularly overtaken by, and filled with, irrelevant coffee morning conversations, often from our Australian brethren; I was moved to eschew 15² for a year or two because of it!]
In any case, it was worth dropping in here just for monkeypuzzler@73’s titbit – that Root sports the number 66 on his shirt! I should have known!
Thanks Omnibus – and to Scchua as ever
@134,135 – I’ve no idea where “Potter” comes from?! Some errant spellchecking? My name isn’t even Potter!
I am, and remain, truly, William F P
[perhaps from now on I’ll post as “William” as I think I was here first, and chose to qualify my ‘Christian” name as I thought it would be arrogant to claim it unqualified (as I assumed other Williams might contribute). The other William can now qualify his name and I’ll use mine unqualified. I’ve put up with it for well over a decade – I think it’s my turn now! 😇]
William FP @135 what is tasteful about frailer tits? It doesn’t make sense, and attempts to do so conjure up an offensively sexist image.
I would have been less strident if I hadn’t been so irritated by a number of freeloading solvers assuming that like them, nobody pays for their crosswords, but there’s absolutely no way, no how, I’d say that clue was good.
Least enjoyable cryptic I’ve encountered. Those who claim to have seen a theme, what is it? Obscure sports figures? Taylor Fritz is unknown to this American. I fault the editor for allowing such an artificially contrived mess. Thank you Guardian and FifteenSquared bloggers for years of fun. But don’t be afraid to label a dud puzzle as such.
Shanne@138 – I agree it wouldn’t make my little book of great clues! Honestly, though, I didn’t find the use of the word “titty” per se crossed any lines, and (this is my shortcoming) I really didn’t conjure up any image whatsoever, sexist or otherwise…
I’m one of those solvers who doesn’t take much notice of surfaces unless they’re particularly, and obviously, meaningful. I notice Arachne’s surfaces, of course, which is why I so enjoyed her rare outing last week – though, sadly, it was a very straightforward solve devoid of her tricksiness. The previous day’s Paul was a doozy – and this Thursday’s Picaroon was the cleverest of the three. I feel we’ve been treated to some wonderful puzzles from long admired compilers over the last week or two, so that I found this meander from the familiar quite interesting
Hope this makes sense …. We’re all different, I imagine
Impossible. Got five clues and gave up.
Five names I hadn’t heard of, comprising 7.5 answers.
But I’m not joining the chorus of “worst ever”, “impossible”, “yuk” et al. Once you realise that they are mostly Spoonerisms, they’re quite gettable by looking carefully at the clueing and making up plausible names. I know that that may not satisfy those who want 100% certainty in their parsing, but it’s an acceptable (and enjoyable) approach as far as I’m concerned.
Thanks Omnibus.
William @140 with or without FP. Your defence of paying no attention to surfaces seems flawed to me. The reference to “titty”, as you put it, is the wordplay of a Spoonerism meaning ‘more likely to break’ and ‘bust’. It’s not the surface. If you don’t think of “tits” you can’t solve the clue. This was one of several clues I failed to solve, having failed to think of either FRITZ or “tits”. You seem to have solved it, while not conjuring up any images. Well done.
I am writing this days after this crossword appeared. I don’t understand the hate. Some people seem to hate sports clues, but Danny Care was England’s first choice scrum half, Heather Knight is England’s Test captain, Beth Mead ís ăn éstablished England striker and Taylor Fritz world no. 4. I hadn’t heard of him and had to look him up. If you find frailer tits egrigous, how do you survive day to day. Loosen up for Christ’s sake.
It wasn’t the best by a long way, but it was different.
nicbach @145 – if only Taylor Fritz could do us the favour of ordering a panino from an English-speaking cafe owner instead only of getting to the US Open final, he could be the hero of this website, and not just another obscure b-lister.
Van W @ 146 – Saddened by your post ending with an unpleasantly sarcastic “well done” – I’ve only ever been very polite to you, and, until now, have always thought highly of you
I was not (and do not need to) justify, nor offer a “defence”, for my fulfilling style of solving. I like a puzzle; if I’m after poetry, then I’ll read some!
Furthermore, I can assure you that, with regard to the word “tits”, I conjured up no images whatsoever, save the four letters as arranged – and the clever use of the bust/titty synonymity. Absolutely no human form entered my imagination
I do find, and it may not be relevant, that – in my circles – there are two types of men. One lot usually jump to sexual matters when considering women (and give my gender a bad name – increasingly). The other lot (a majority I think, and hope) do not live with such connections inhabiting – and inhibiting – their minds. I’m happy to be in the latter group. I’m not saying that those who were moved by the clue to envisage a woman’s breasts are necessarily in the former group, but trying to explain to you (as I must still hold some limited respect for your opinion or I wouldn’t bother with this lengthy task!) that, at the speed I tend to solve – unless I’m purposefully savouring as with the recent Arachne – I very rarely “conjure up images” that aren’t comprised of letters and words….
William F P @147 … not me … sheffield hatter @144. I was more likely to post a comment contrasting the sensitivities expressed over this puzzle with this website’s customary obsession with archaic advertising slogans for bras.
Van Winkle @ 148 – oops! So sorry – and you make a brilliant point (I wish I’d lifted, and separated, you from the true object of my gall!)
Sheffield hatter @ 144 – please see mine @ 148
William@150. I wouldn’t have challenged yours @141 except that you excused yourself by reference to the surface. Surface readings of clues often pass me by too, but the link from ‘bust’ to a Spoonerism involving “frailer tits” was essential to solving the clue. I genuinely didn’t make that link, whereas you solved the clue so must have done.
I absolve you on the imagery allegation and apologise for that part of my diatribe. Sorry.
I’m interested in your “two types” of men and would be happy to discuss this in a non-crossword situation. And thank you for saying you respect my contributions on here – as I have done yours – and hope we can restore good relations after this. (Unless you had me confused with Van Winkle, of course! 😁)
Since I only tackled this today no-one will see this comment. However, for what it’s worth this puzzle irritated me till I realised what it was about. The only sportsperson I’d heard of was Root but I enjoyed digging the others out. I don’t believe that anyone prone to spoonerising only does it when the result makes sense – in fact nonsensical spoonerisms are much more likely than striking ones. Did I enjoy it? It made me think and occupied me which is why I do crosswords. I am a subscriber but I don’t think that gives me special moaning rights since the cost of the crossword must be a tiny part of the cost of the paper.
Completed!