Independent 11,985 by Guinevere

24 comments on “Independent 11,985 by Guinevere”

1. I really enjoyed the puzzle, its Women’s Day theme and the subsequent read about Mary Anning.

   Favourites were MARIE CURIE, KOSOVO and UNCOMMON. Also IDEA, though I would have found the surface slightly smoother (and the cryptic reading more devious) if it had been “Advisor’s start-to-finish scheme” i.e. with hyphens.

   I too had to look up “list” but got nowhere with Collins online. But then I overruled that since it clearly had to be the two ends of ‘local’. Sometimes you’ve just got to go on intuition!

   Thanks both!

2. Good puzzle and great blog.
   Thanks G & K.

   My faves: PUFFED UP, ROSA, SKILLS, AMELIA and UNCOMMON.

3. I enjoyed this but, as usual, completely missed the theme.

   The false capitalisation of the second letter of TA in 21d looks very clumsy to me, and I didn’t understand the “lists of local” in 26a.

   MARIE CURIE was my favourite especially for its LOL surface.

   Many thanks to Guinevere and to Kitty

4. Yes, I agree with Kitty, it’s Women’s Day, and it sort of clicked with me after putting in AMELIA to replace my stupid effort, ALDRIN.

   Is there a Men’ s Day ? ( I will make no further comment ).

   I really enjoyed this puzzle, which intertwined the theme very expertly, without being forced into clumsy wordplays.

   PULA in 9(d) is a bit off, for me.
   “Sucker” = TOOL, coupled with “punch” = BOX, is not exactly a knockout. (25ac).
   I’m a bit of an oldie, so “breast” = TIT in (20ac), seems ugly, in view the theme.

   All-in-all, a very good puzzle; and the blog is ( dare I say it), even better.

   Many 21d to you both, Guiney & Kitty

5. Ian @4 – yes, there is an International Men’s Day. It’s 19 November 🙂

6. Is this Vigo in disguise?

7. 25a TOOLBOX: a neat ‘Divide & Conquer’ of “Sucker punch”. But it should’ve been “tradeswoman’s” (or at least “tradesperson’s”) “chest”.
   Knew Mary Anning from QI: “Who Sold Sea Shells On The Sea Shore?”
   Romesh: “Is it somebody who’s got no IDEA about the laws of (sort of) supply and demand?”
   Fine puzzle. 21d G&K.

8. Rudolf – no, I can confirm Guinevere is a new setter.

   Enjoyed this – especially 25a, as mentioned by FrankieG. Worthy theme for the day.

   Mary Anning is a fascinating person whose achievements still don’t get nearly as much recognition as they deserve. However, I would advise against reading Tracy Chevalier’s novel about her, Remarkable Creatures, which is truly dreadful.

9. Rabbit Dave@3, the capitalized TA in 21d has the surface reading “Territorial Army”, I assume. And that kind of thing usually fools me at first, tbh… whenever the definition isn’t a normal-looking explicit word then I do tend to get reeled in! I like these devices (though certainly better spread thinly so that they retain the element of surprise).

   I think TOOLBOX works fine, albeit a missed opportunity, as per FrankieG. It was my last one in, though; couldn’t get past FOOL, and couldn’t see BOX until that penny had finally dropped.

10. AP @9, I understand what TA means in the clue surface. My concern is that it is not an adequate definition because “Ta” has had its second letter falsely capitalised.

11. Frankie@7
    TOOLBOX*
    Yes….”tradeswoman’s” might have been much more on the mark, in the circumstances.
    I applaud you, for the “Divide & Conquer” crusade….a “Lift & Separate”, would not be appropriate for today’s theme!

    * there must be a clever cryptic clue for this, using the “box” in cricket, which protects…. I’ll stop there.

12. FrankieG@7 Nicely done. Great puzzle and blog.

13. Rabbit Dave@10, I’ve always understood that kind of thing to be fair game. Like when literal punctuation symbols are the definitions for answers such as QUESTION MARK and ELLIPSIS, or where common nouns are cunningly placed to begin a phrase, in order to make them look like proper nouns (Mark, and so on). Punctuation and capitalization need to make sense in both reading, but the setter doesn’t need to say what she means…
    In the Guardian they go as far as to have things like “Grandfather […]” where “grand” is the definition and father is the first part of the wordplay, which is big step further still! It felt unfair to me the first time I was fooled by that, but once one’s assimilated it as one of the tricks of the trade I can’t find fault with it on the grounds of fairness – in the context of the particular house rules.

    On a different note, FWIW, I love “divide and conquer”; works better than the original (with which I personally had no problem with, but then again I’m a bloke…)

14. AP @13: the reverse trick–hiding a proper noun at the front of the clue to make it look like a common noun–is more common, as in this a propos clue I wrote a few years ago:

    Head of costuming to alter halter top (5)

    (She won more Oscars than anyone not named Walt Disney.)

    But I do think that styling Ta as TA is edging into unfair territory a bit, since you wouldn’t naturally write it that way UNLESS YOU WERE SHOUTING, and that totally isn’t a word that you shout.

    Kitty @5: I’m surprised there is in fact an International Men’s Day, since we don’t need one. That’s for the same reason they don’t have a straight pride parade or a white history month. Every day is straight pride day; every month is white history month; more generally, in-groups don’t need to be celebrated because they do it all on their own.

15. mrpenney@14

    Again, you had me.
    EDITH (HEAD) ?

    She should have been in this puzzle, perhaps?

16. mrpenney

    So pleased with myself, I omitted to say, that’s a bloody good clue, on many levels.
    Have you considered becoming a setter?

    ian b

17. Frankie@7 – Thanks for the clip. That is how I knew that the tongue twister is about Mary Anning. I can’t remember exactly when I first learned about her but it may have been before that QI episode because I have a friend who lives in that part of the world and we’ve often been to Lyme Regis, done the museum thing, a bit of fossil hunting, etc. There may even be a photo of me next to that very statue above. I haven’t got the T-shirt or read the book Widdersbel@8 advises against though!

18. mrpenney@14 actually that may be what I intended to describe 😀 but indeed it works both ways.

    I do see both your and RD’s point of course, but I think I’ve been doing too much guardianing recently because I’m inured to tricks involving punctuation and capitalization; I just assume that one has to (sometimes) ignore both when identifying definitions or rooting out wordplay. (It’s not an “anything goes” though; both the surface and cryptic reading need to make sense, else its not a masterful clue.) I just see TA as the word ta stylistically expressed in uppercase, rather than indicating shouting or anything else.

    FWIW I agree with your last paragraph, mrpenny. Well, actually, I think a Men’s Day project to look out for things which haven’t historically been automatic privilege (men’s mental health) and things which may have been but which continue to be a cause for concern (job availability) is great. But sometimes (dare I say often?) the subtext is “why do women get to shout off about stuff yet men don’t”, (or gay/straight, or black/white) – which ought to be easily rebuffed by a mere waving of the salary and childcare stats, or suicide rate stats, or senior leadership makeup stats etc. And yet it feels like there’s still a way to go there though, as you say.

    [Excuse the socio-politics. I’ll restrict it to days of particular significance!]

    BTW “Head of costuming” is lovely and is exactly the kind of thing that keeps me hungry for cryptic crosswords!

19. Rabbit Dave@10 – I don’t mind deceptive capitalisation across the whole word because block capitals is a style that is used sometimes, and not just by shouty annoying people on the internet as referenced by mrpenney@14 (although that may well be part of the reason capitals are falling out of favour generally). I’M SURE YOU’LL FORVIVE ME FOR SHOUTING HERE – TA!

20. Mrpenney@14 and AP@18, the comedian Richard Herring wrote a book about this, The Problem With Men, which is pretty funny as I recall and also much more positive and constructive than the title makes it sound.

    There is a clip of him discussing it here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xBM8okbxR0

21. Great puzzle and lovely blog, TA Guinevere and Kitty. Lost a few % points in the corner around Kosovo, dnk the Ovo gk, so revealed the K to get it. And thanks to today’s posters above for the discussion re IWD and IMD (about which latter’s existence I had absy no idea!).

22. mrpenney@@14, Kitty @5

    I am so sorry, for a misfired attempt at a joke.
    I had no idea there was either a [Women’s Day], or [a Men’s Day]. ,
    I apologise for any offence taken.
    There is no excuse for humour.
    My bad.

23. Oh no, Ian@22, please don’t feel bad.

    It was actually really great that you asked the question because of the discussion it prompted.

    I never doubted that your comment was made in perfectly good spirit, and I feel I must apologise for not making that clear before. Especially as you paid me such a lovely compliment about the blog.

24. Ian @16: thanks so much! I’ve thought about setting, but finding the time is the hard part! (I’m working on it.)

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