Independent 12,041 by Math

16 comments on “Independent 12,041 by Math”

1. Re 11ac, I took this as “they produce oil to go”, as the def, alluding to the “exporting” of oil.

2. I’m not agin, GK/proper nouns in a puzzle, but this was OTT, for me.
   Carmen Miranda/ Rod Hull/ Herman Mankiewicz/Horace/Hero & Leander/ Captain Webb/ Dan Aykroyd/ gosh, even Harold Bishop and Madge. OPEC, OSS, and The Reds.
   There’s a song by Billy Joel that springs to mind.
   This puzzle did not start my fire.
   Quite a few clues were not winners.
   4(d), I get the pun, ‘though it’s a bit old hat, a la “Sooty and Sweep”, but does the syntax gel, “they were”?
   22(d), “removing central triplet”. Ugh.
   1(d) seems forced, the ellipsis is defunct, leading to 2(d), wherein the synonym feels a bit inexact.
   The usual French suspects, RIEN and LE, a bit tiresome.
   Pas pour moi, mais, merci, Math and loonapick

3. I share the reservations of Loonapick and ENB about the volume of GK required, and gave up on checking (amongst others) the MANC in Mancunian, though the gist was clear.
   Isn’t Tuesday Theme Day?? It must surely be more than three chess pieces. I look forward to enlightenment.

4. Thanks Math and loonapick

   In 16D I took the definition as ‘see clergy’, with ‘see’ being the ecclesiastical noun.

   I did a search on the first four across solutions, and it turns out that “The Researcher’s First Murder” is a loose-leaf novel by John Finnemore, which requires the reader to INVESTIGATE a series of MURDERs.

   He sets Listener puzzles for the Times as Emu, and inter alia he has also appeared in Miranda Hart’s Miranda TV show.

   There is probably more to unearth.

5. Knew some of it, but not Mank, or the 19C Channel swimmer, or the Bishops of Oz! Now that it’s mentioned, I’ve seen the emu puppet, no idea how (rebirth on QI? Surely not!). The rest was ok, quite liked Amen to the Feds, ta Math and Loona.

6. Simon @4: are you suggesting Math is John Finnemore? I see Math has published before but not since 2017. I know Finnemore solved and has written/talked about solving Cain’s Jawbone written by Torquemada – Edward Powys MATHers.

7. PM @ 6 Not directly, though it’s not impossible. Would a setter use the title of their novel in their first puzzle for 8 years?

   We can but hope Math will drop by and elucidate.

8. Nice detective work, Simon S! Finnemore has been setting for Listener since 2016 and Math has been around a lot longer than that, so it’s unlikely they’re the same person.

   I didn’t mind the breadth of the general knowledge – only Mank and OSS were unfamiliar, but they were easy enough to reverse engineer from the most likely-looking solution.

9. Dan Ackroyd was a detective in a (bad) movie called Loose Cannons in which he had to solve a murder. Didn’t help much. Thanks.

10. Thanks loonapick and Math.

    Liked ORIENTATE and MANILLA.

    Also see KING BISHOP CASTLE and MEN.

11. Math: looks like I am alone up front, in this game.
    Stranded like Luis Diaz, without any support in sight.
    Any crossword with my beloved REDS as a solution, must be sound.
    There is obviously a hidden depth, which escaped me.
    So….a replay is now required.
    enb

12. I was happy with this.. I looked for a theme but nothing sprang out, didn’t harm the solve, which I thought was fair all round… my main problem being some sort of word blindness in the reverse inclusion, for example… Neighbours was a lunchtime necessity, in order to fuel postprandial conversation, back in the day… Madge and Harold, once seen never forgotten! Enjoyed working out which way round IS and ARE had to go to fulfill the def and the wordplay… never heard of Mank, but as already stated, not too hard to put it together, with a crosser or two… Captain Webb is probably the only channel swimmer known to the majority, apart from David Walliams, and the anagram made it a bit easier, I feel.. needed help parsing LAG, and KING.. doh!
    Thanks Math and loonapick

13. Hi all. Sorry for the late response, and sincere apologies for the quantity of General Knowledge I jammed in there. I guess some of the references do indeed show my age (Emu, Neighbours, Dan Aykroyd). Though I’m certainly not quite contemporary with Citizen Kane, Carmen Miranda or the OSS, let alone Captain Webb, Taft, Horace or Hero and Leander (the 1970s and 1980s were my formative years rather than BC 70s and 80s) but bar OSS, which was a relatively recent discovery for me, and Mank, which at least was a pretty widely acclaimed film only a few years ago, all of those things have somehow managed to percolate into my GK databanks over many years. However, I agree that some of the references probably aren’t quite as timeless as they felt to me at time of setting.

    @E.N.Boll&, @1, you are quite right, my intention was indeed that the exported oil should be “to go”. Regarding the “they were”, @2, I don’t think Emu ever made it clear as to how they identified, so I hope the pronoun, and hence the grammar, is appropriate in the circumstances. Sorry that the “central triplet” caused offence (although I’m not exactly sure of the reason). It was intended to simply imply an edit to a section of their poetry. The ellipsis in 1/2 is, I agree, rather forced, but when Trump turns up in one clue and is immediately followed by one referencing “eighth-rate” and “crooked” it’s hard not to make a connection.

    Finally, regarding the theme, I should begin by pointing out that I sadly cannot claim the honour of actually being the multi-talented John Finnemore. I’m merely someone who quickly became obsessed with The Researcher’s First Murder at the end of last year. It really is a fantastic multi-faceted cryptic puzzle that I thoroughly recommend (although, it is possible that it was its sheer breadth of subjects that may have led me to over-egg the GK in this particular pudding; if given the chance, I will try to be less heavy-handed in future). As has been mentioned, I have in the distant past been fortunate to have puzzles occasionally appear in the Independent (with rather erratic frequency) but I had hung up my cryptic spurs (Tottenhams?) several years ago. However, the enjoyment I got out of TRFM helped grease my cogs and fired up the furnace (sorry about the magimix of metaphors) and made me want to evangelise it, in a very meagre way, to an audience who I’m sure should appreciate it.

    Other than Emu and Miranda, which are indeed nods to Mr Finnemore himself, there are several references to the book/puzzle (in a couple of clue surfaces and some answers) beyond just the title in the top of the grid. However, to avoid spoiling the fun for anyone who may wish to give it a try, I will refrain from highlighting them, but I do hope that there may be some fellow researchers out there who might be able to spot the odd few familiar words/phrases.

    Many thanks to Loonapick for the thorough blog and to all for the feedback.

14. PostScript, PostMark @6, you are correct that my pseudonym is, among other things, partially inspired by Edward Powys Mathers. And Torquemada was also clearly the inspiration for John’s TRFM, which in turn inspired me to give crosswording another go (so feel free to blame them both).

15. Nice to see Math in the Indy after such a long absence.

16. Thanks for sharing that, Math – a lovely reason to come out of retirement!

    I’m a big fan of Jon Finnemore’s comedy but I’ve never done his puzzles. I really should give them a try.

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