Cryptic crossword No 29,696 by Imogen

51 comments on “Cryptic crossword No 29,696 by Imogen”

1. Lovely crossword, but are the googles really necessary? Thanks both.

2. Enjoyably challenging puzzle.
   Helpful blog explaining those I had solved but couldn’t parse – DANDYPRAT, WAGONS-LIT, INSPIRE.
   Day can only go downhill from here…
   Thanks, Imogen and manehi

3. Oofy @1 – Of course they’re not necessary, but a lot of people like to wander a bit through the GK offered by a crossword. I can think of at least one blogger who would probably have used 1a as an excuse to remind us of P G Wodehouse’s mischievous creation Roderick Spode.

4. 20a IN = ‘burning’? Really?

5. The new app doesn’t tell you who the setter is, but there was no disguising the challenge. SCHRODINGERS CAT went straight in while the other column took longer and the rest came in a slowish but satisfying churn. I hadn’t heard of DANDYPRAT but sensed the comic may be involved. I hadn’t heard of CHACONNE either, but the wordplay was quite clear. My favourites were OSWALD, the lovely CLEANED, DOWNTOWN and STATUARY. Thanks, Imogen and thanks manehi, for the exemplary blog.

6. @4 Yes: we had that discussion quite recently, although I can’t recall in which puzzle it came up; the fire is ‘in’ being the opposite of the fire is ‘out’.

7. Liked the puzzle. Great blog.
   Thanks Imogen and manehi.

   Loved ACCUSE and DOWNTOWN (Guessed the city must be in County Down. Googled to confirm that).
   Also liked YANKEEFIED, BENEFIT and WAGONS-LIT

   TIE-DYE: Does ‘make’ satisfy the cryptic grammar (Is it like TIED and YE together make?)?
   AGNOSTIC: Does ‘bomb’ satisfy the cryptic grammar?

8. Enjoyed this, though it was a stiff challenge in places. Really liked CLEANED, among others, but was stumped by the parsing of DOWNTOWN because I was thinking of the place in north Wales.
   00sf00 @4 – the same wordplay came up a few weeks ago, can’t recall who the setter was. Elicited much discussion here. It’s a usage familiar to me from childhood, when people would talk about keeping the fire in (ie still lit) overnight. [apologies to Balfour, you got there before me!]
   Thanks to Imogen for the workout, and to manehi for the ever-excellent bloggage.

9. This was a bit above my pay grade. Though I did know the CAT at 2d, and that helped considerably. Couldn’t solve OSWALD and CHACONNE in the NW corner, and as I always thought it was Conflab rather than CONFAB was puzzled by 10ac for a while. Didn’t know DANDYPRAT as old coinage, only as a term of abuse in a Roal Dahl children’s book (?). WAGONS-LIT completely passed me by. A bit of a blunder in the dark, therefore, though pleased with the solutions I did manage to get. And I did persevere with this for some time this morning, oh, and for a brief while early on I imagined, with the Knee part of the clue, that 12ac might be Kentuckian. But of course not…

10. …and me too thinking of the Bangor in Wales…

11. A tough solve for me, but only ‘DANDYPRAT’ was unfamiliar. I wonder how widely known the comic is in the US and Australia? Got fixated on Mussolini for 1 and so was trying to fit ‘ben’ or ‘beni’ in, until I realised it was our home-grown idiot. SCHRODINGERS CAT took far longer than it should have,. Liked CLEANED as well when I finally sussed it.
    I join with those who enjoy the links provided for further information, edification or entertainment. You don’t have to follow them.
    Thanks to Imogen and to manehi.

12. Knew DANDYPRAT as an impish boy but not as the coin. I’ve even had cause to clue it previously myself.
    CHACONNE is “at” an indication for “after”?
    YANKEEFIED is “now” necessary?
    ORDINATION is “lengthy” necessary?
    As KVa, I wasn’t sure that “make” in TIE-DIE and “bomb” in AGNOSTIC worked grammatically.

13. KVa @7 and Jay @12, I think the def in TIE-DYE is actually “make irregular patterns”, not “irregular patterns” – in which case the grammar works. Not entirely convinced by “bomb” though.

14. Thus felt like a summary of recent 15sq discussions – nouns as anagrind “bomb” , superfluous words as Jay notes above. Martin@5 I have taken to accessing the Guardian puzzle from the Menu – More – Crosswords, which then shows the setter, rather than just clicking on puzzles. Overall this puzzle made me feel like a three ha’pence.

15. MOH@13
    TIE-DYE
    Thanks. I stand corrected. The def should include ‘make’.

    Jay@11
    CHACONNE: I have seen ‘at’ being used to mean ‘by the side of’—>’by any one side of’. Seems fine.
    YANKEEFIED: Now to indicate conversion from another style, I guess.

16. I completed it but found it fairly tough and did have to look up words ending in ‘prat’ to get the nho DANDYPRAT. And needed Chambers to confirm CHACONNE was a Thing.

    I think MOH has resolved ‘make’ in TIE-DYE; I justified it by thinking of ‘Under compulsion’ and ‘you’ as two items which would therefore take ‘make’ as the verb but MOH’s solution is more elegant. I think I’d still have preferred to see some indication of the archaic ‘ye’; some setters qualify it, others don’t. ‘Bomb’ just about works in the sense of fail, again if ‘Costing’ and ‘a’ are viewed as two separate items, justifying ‘bomb’ as the correct verb.

    Thanks Imogen and manehi

17. A fun solve. Thanks Imogen and Manehi.
    I needed a word finder for Dandyprat – great word. But I couldn’t fully parse it – got PART* but struggled to justify DANDY, despite wondering of The Dandy had once cost three-ha’pence. Talk about missing the bloomin’ obvious!
    Ronald @9, I thought it was Conflab too. Apparently both are correct but Confab is older and comes from confabulation. Now, can I get that and Dandyprat into my conversation today?

18. Thanks Imogen and manehi

    I also took the definition in 27 as “make irregular patterns” (though some tie-dyes have a very regular swirl).

    And I think the ‘now’ in 12 is necessary: cf the verb ‘gentrified’ – something has been changed from its original condition.

    Edit: I obviously type too slowly!

19. MOH@13, KVa@15 thanks for responses. Agree about “make” being part of the definition.

20. Couple of songs bubbled up, Running Bear dove etc, and Didn’t we have a lovely time etc, but still a shrug as I dnk Bangor was in Down. As for that bleep cat, it’s become a cliché and I still needed lots of crossers … bit of a worry. So yes, a chewy solve, in fact a dnf as I gave up and revealed dandyprat. Enjoyed it tho, ta Im and manehi.

21. I’m another who knew it as conflab rather than CONFAB – so that was a bung ‘n’ shrug. I, too, was thinking of the Welsh Bangor, guessed DOWNTOWN from the crossers, but couldn’t figure out the parsing.
    It took a while before the American use of DOVE occurred to me, too.
    CHACONNE and OVIDUCT needed looking up to check they existed, ditto DANDYPRAT – though, unlike PostMark @16, I’d guessed the front half from the comic and had to do a wordsearch for the final 4 letters. Can’t help feeling this particular new word will be no use to me…
    Oh well, at least I completed the thing.
    Thanks manehi & Imogen

22. … given both Bangors, which one did we gave a lovely time going to? I’m guessing Welsh …

23. Hard but interesting, and a dnf because I had to look up the three ha’penny bit – the source I found spelt it DANDIPRAT, the comic didn’t spring to mind, and so I took ages to find YANKEEFIED.
    In=alight/burning has never been part of my vocabulary: I’ll have to remember that for future reference. I know CHACONNE from various suites by the likes of Bach and Handel.

    Our US solvers may have trouble thinking of hickory as a non-native tree: this is one occasion where a helpful but not strictly necessary adjective can cause confusion and might be better omitted, although just “tree” makes the clue much harder. I’m not usually on the side of the minimum words purists, but I am here.

    Lots to enjoy: DOVE and CLEANED, DOWNTOWN, GRINCH, JANUARY… Yes, I thought it was CONFLAB too.

24. I got there in the end, but I can’t say I enjoyed the obscurity. How many solvers had heard of DANDYPRAT? Few, I would aver. Collins tells me it dates from the 16th C. and is not even the commonest spelling. I generally enjoy learning a new word, but not one that requires googling a random-sounding collation, and that I am unlikely to ever come across again let alone have a chance to use.

    And does 1A either need or benefit from the reference to the obscure Friends?

    A puzzle can be enjoyably challenging without resorting to such rarefied GK.

    Also new for me: OVIDUCT, and CHACONNE, but at least they might one day come up in conversation.

25. One wagon-lit, two wagons-lits, I’m afraid.

26. I thought I had seen DANDYPRAT before in this ARENA, and ECCE, there it is in Nutmeg’s puzzle on 8th June 2022, using the ‘i’ spelling father then the ‘y’. “Old three-halfpenny comic incomplete, one part damaged (9)’.

27. grantinfreo @22. Legend has it that it was neither; it was in fact Rhyl, and when the song became widely known the advocates for Rhyl were up in arms in protest at the lost visitor potential. I don’t especially like the song, but Fiddler’s Dram were a Canterbury-Whitstable band, which was very much my patch back in 1979.

28. I like Nutmeg’s clue for DANDIPRAT.

29. [grantinfreo @22: the song Day Trip to Bangor is indeed about the city in North Wales. That was my first thought too, because I’m originally from Wales, but more recently I’ve got to know someone from the Northern Irish Bangor so I’ve learned to check every time.]

30. As usual, I needed a lot of electronic help to finish this. I liked the wordplay for OSWALD, although I DNK OS as outstanding (banking/financial term), the good anagram for CEREBRAL and the part anagrams for SCHRODINGERS CAT and WAGONS-LIT (WAGON-LITS, WAGONS-LIT and WAGONS-LITS are all given in dictionaries), and the mugshot in BENEFIT.

    Thanks Imogen for the mental battering and to manehi for sorting it all out.

31. I assumed that the “as his friends called him” in 1a was simply to indicate that we’re looking for his first name rather than his surname. I don’t think you need to know the name of the organisation.

    Very tricky puzzle and I needed the blog for a couple of parsings. Thanks Imogen and manehi.

32. Thanks for that Balfour @27, always good to get a bit of local knowledge.
    But then I see Quirister reckons Wales…

33. Damn, I was so sure that the “three-ha’pence” wanted us to cut the Threepenny Opera in two, somehow. The “comic part” added to the ruse (assuming it was intentional), so did not knowing DANDYPRAT. Liked the rest of the puzzle!

34. Martin@5 In the “puzzles” section of the app go down to “archives.”
    You get the old presentation of the crosswords which includes the names of the setter’s.

35. Great puzzle, quite tough but very enjoyable.
    CHACONNE, DANDYPRAT and WAGONS-LIT were all new to me and, being Australian, I hadn’t heard of the comic DANDY.
    I agree with copland@25. My French dictionary and pocket Larousse both give the plural of Wagon-lit as Wagons-lits, as is grammatically correct in French. It’s not really an English word is it?
    I needed the blog for the parsing of DANDYPRAT, WAGONS-LIT and DOVE.
    My favourites were S CAT, A GAME TWO CAN PLAY, CLEANED (brilliant), BENEFIT, CONFAB, DOWNTOWN.
    Thanks for the challenge, Imogen and for the great blog and explanations, manehi.

36. Weird mix of straightforward, gettable with a little tugging, and baffling.

    I Google Bangor, I get the one in Maine (the only one I’d heard of, so no help there). I look up the one in Maine, I find it’s named after the one in Wales. Look up that one–no help there either. The existence of one in County Down escaped my search engine entirely. There is a classic crass joke in there that’s beneath the dignity of this site; you’ve either heard it or you haven’t.

    Also unfamiliar with the dandyprat. Not sure how “dandy” equates to “comic”–I know it as a synonym for “nifty,” a synonym for “foppish” (or just “fop”), and a synonym for “fancy” (basically the “foppish” definition without the negative connotations).

    I’d never heard of OSWALD the fascist either, but the wordplay there was clear enough. And I’m another for whom “in” just doesn’t equal anything having to do with fire. So yeah, can’t say I finished this one.

37. A struggle today, with some severe NHOs–Tomsdad@11, the comic is as unknown in the US as the coin, at least to me. [And as someone who does a daily assessment of the amount of quiet desperation in the newspaper comic strip Hi and Lois, I’m probably above-average in my comic knowledge.] Then with 14ac, my in-laws are from Down, I’ve visited Down several times, I know Warrenpoint and Newry and Kilkeel, and I still thought “well they can’t mean the Bangor in Maine, it must be the one in Wales.” Once I bunged WAGONS-LIT my first reaction to WAT was to say that aloud, but it’s as in Angkor Wat so I can’t really complain.

    Very much liked the wordplay for YANKEEFIED and RECCE and, in a different way, for CLEANED.

    Thanks Imogen and manehi!

38. [Bangor, Maine, is maybe best known for its airport, which is larger than the city should merit; this is because it’s where transatlantic flights that have “issues” get diverted. It’s the twin of Shannon in Ireland in that respect.]

39. Not sure which app people are referring to, but the moniker Imogen appears in my iPad Guardian app just like the setter’s appellation always did.

40. MrP@36. In the UK, “The Dandy” is (was?) a children’s comic

41. I thought of all three Bangors. The Maine one has a rather less than tasteful song “Riding down from Bangor“, but it turned out there was no connection. I got hung on “ng” for ages, before the crossers helped the penny drop.

    I also got fixated on Old Possum for a paradoxical cat, again until a second penny dropped.

    A DNF for me too: had to reveal a couple in the TL corner.

    Thanks manehi and Imogen

42. Thanks for the blog , pretty good with neat ideas for STATUARY and CLEANED , not keen on attached for BENEFIT , it just about works .
    It has been party time for the nits this week .

43. Bravo Imogen, and thanks to manehi for lifting the fog from DOWNTOWN.
    [Balfour@6, MOH@8: you may be thinking of the devilish 17D in this recent G by Enigmatist.]

44. [Yes, thanks Coloradan, that’s exactly the one!]

45. I don’t think anyone has commented on the enumeration of WAGONS-LIT. My eChambers (sorry Roz it is the easiest way of referring to the copy on my iPad) has it hyphenated, as do the above commentators, but the print version I downloaded had it as two words – 6,3. Not 6-3. That made the problem more difficult than I needed. Loved the wrestle with the rest.

46. I didn’t know about the Dandy and hadn’t heard of DANDYPRAT, but I had the good luck to guess that the former might be right, enabling me to look up the latter to check that it actually existed. On the other hand, 24ac (ACCUSE) defeated me, even though in hindsight it’s not so hard.

    If I’d ever known that there was a BANGOR in Northern Ireland, I’d managed to forget it. I knew about the one in Wales (as well as the one in Maine, US) and speculated that maybe that was in a county called Down.

47. The Bangor in Maine gets namechecked (sort of) in Roger Miller’s King Of The Road (“destination – Bangor Lane”).

    Use of “cane” for “rod” 1D isn’t 100% accurate. “Rod” used to mean a birch-rod, which comprised several twigs.

    For a while to begin with I thought 4D might be referring in some way to the Stanley Holloway comic monologue “Three Ha’pence A Foot”!

48. Balfour @27. This is a bit off topic, but Fiddler’s Dram didn’t like being associated with the song either. The band evolved into the Oyster Band, and I enjoyed many of their albums and many appearances on various folk rock albums by their lead singer Cathy Lesurf for over 30 years before I learned they were responsible for that song about Bangor.

49. There’s a Bangor on a French Island near Brittany, Belle Île.

    Yes this took us a while to get started, but all worked out in the end.

    Thanks all.

50. Didn’t we have a lovely time the day went to Bangor?
    A beautiful day, we had lunch on the way, and all for under a pound, you know.

51. Completed just over half, missing most of the top half. Some I never would have gotten (OSWALD, DANDYPRAT), some I’m kicking myself (SCHRODINGER’S CAT)

Comments are closed.