Prize crossword No 29,733 by Pangakupu

41 comments on “Prize crossword No 29,733 by Pangakupu”

1. Thanks for the blog, I discovered if you join the two Maori words together you get the translation as “Saturday Building”, so quite apt for the Prize!

2. What a treat after last week’s disappointment, which we finished but were unable to blog.

   Nothing had been entered after a first trawl and we thought ‘Oh, dear (us)’, relying heavily upon the 5,4,4,2 numbering on 5d to get started. Steady progress was then made with much use of crossers. We giggled at 9; hesitated at 11; enjoyed 14; loved 25 & 26; had PD moments with 12 & 16; but struggled to parse 5a, 2d & 17.
   Thanks be to P and C.

   P.S. We did wonder if HAKA was a nina, but do not know sufficient Maori to expand!

3. I had a comment drafted, but my experience was so close to Marser@2, I will just point to that entry (not including the PS). I liked UGLY too

4. Some very nice an clever clues: ITEM, SKINTEST, BRIDGEWORK, UGLY amongst others.

   I tried to parse THAT’S MORE LIKE IT as double definition, then definition+wordplay, and couldn’t quite, but then saw the question mark. So all is well.

   [ Intrigued by the nina (for some reason), I entered it in Google translate and got “third party”, unlike Antonknee@1’s finding. I’m not surprised, since Google must have had precious little training data to work with. Now, a good strategy when you don’t trust a translation is to reverse-translate your suspicious text and see if you get back what you started, or at least a paraphrase of it (I once published a paper on extension and validation of this idea, but that’s another story.). I tried both translations with this heuristic, and both failed! Maybe P will elucidate. ]

5. As I’ve noted I’m trying to base the Māori ninas on the number of the puzzle, and this one is no. 37, which is one of those necessary numbers (otherwise 36 would crash into 38), but not otherwise exciting. Except 111, which looks as if it really should be prime, turns out to be 3×37.

   111 is also a Nelson in cricket (one of the unlucky numbers of runs to land on, but I don’t know how it got that name), so Nelson cut into three it is.

6. THAT’S MORE LIKE IT
   Dr.WhatsOn@4
   I had the same feeling about this clue initially. Agree, it must be an intended CD.
   If someone has a better explanation for ‘for adopting’, that would make the clue
   better.

   Good blog Cineraria. Thanks.
   Nice puzzle. Thanks Pangakupu.

7. Adopting seems to have a sense of ‘improving’ in some contexts.

   Liked TOPOLOGY, PASS SENTENCE, OF COURSE, ALLEYS, POLO-NECK and CINEASTE.

8. I haven’t been tackling the Prize lately, but I saw this was by Pangakapu, so had to give it a go. I didn’t understand some of the cryptics, and had no idea about logy even though my native speech is American. Centrepieces was my final biff, but I was thinking Republican was R and not Rep, so couldn’t account for the ep.

   I never mess with Maori ninas, not my department. Nice puzzle.

9. Pangakapu@5. 111 is a Nelson because he had 1 eye, 1 arm and 1 leg by the time of his death.

10. Thanks for the parsing of OF COURSE. Otherwise, I thought this was less tricky than I normally find Pangakapu’s puzzles. Liked IDEE FIXE, GLOUCESTER and CINEASTE. Thanks to Pangakapu and Cineraria. Now to check out today’s prize.

11. I’ve not done many Pangakupu puzzles, but enough to have a an ill-defined but definite feeling that I need to think slightly differently with them. Maybe that’s the ‘intricate but precise’ clueing that Cineraria mentions. Certainly there were a number of ‘oh, I see…’ moments here for me, like ‘at MIT’ just means in the US. (I’ve lived in the US, and never heard of ‘logy’, so I’m glad Vinyl1@8 shows I’m not alone here.) ‘Ba gum’ indeed. I was slightly disappointed to realise the ‘hint of carnality’ in 6d was just the letter ‘c’, but maybe there was more than a hint in STIGMATA. Thanks Pangakupu, and thanks, Cineraria.

    Tomsdad@9: did Nelson really lose a leg? I thought he was just an 11.

12. Ah, I see I should have read Cineraria’s ‘Nelson’ link. That covers it all in great detail.

13. Thanks for the blog. We couldn’t parse ALLEYS, but “looking hard” is a fair version of the Chambers definition of “ be all eyes”: give complete attention. Spotted the nina and thanks to Pangakupu @5 for the explanation.

14. Enjoyed this. It didn’t occur to me to look for a NINA and I had no idea about the setter’s NZ connections, but something to look out for next time. (But surely 37 is an interesting number simply in virtue of being prime).

    I had understood that 111 was Nelson because the great man had one eye, one arm, and one of something else. I am sure this was Brian Johnson’s frequent take on it, amid much giggling.

    For topology, “logy” was unknown to me, but the clue readily prompted me to go to Chambers, and bingo.

    CE for Chancellor of the Exchequer was new for me. After a recently-ended long stint in the Whitehall saltmines, the abbreviation will always be CX to me. But all fair and in the dictionary.

15. I have had an unusually busy week and didn’t really get the time to engage with this properly. When I did get a chance to have a go I found I was not really on the right wavelength.

    I do not like POROUS and THAT’S MORE LIKE IT. They both seem oblique and random.

    Having said that, there were some clever and rewarding clues such as SKIN TEST and POLO NECK.

    I’ll hopefully have more time for PANGAKUPU next time they set a Saturday Prize.

16. Couldn’t get 17acc. Kept trying to fit in Leeds (with the s for support ebbing) backwards. Managed to get or guess the rest. Thanks to you both.

17. Andrew B @14 Re Nelson, I’m sure you’re right. I’ve always assumed it derived from the Navy, and that the something else would appear a close second in an alphabetical list.

18. A thought-provoking crossword. DNF (failed on stigmata and oath…) and didn’t see the nina. Skin test and polo neck were very good. Idéfix is Astérix’s dog in the French, neatly translated as Dogmatix in the wonderful translations, and was one of my first ones in – though I have to admit I didn’t parse it properly. I look forward to more Pangakupu prizes.

19. Nelson (111) isn’t the unlucky number for Aussies. That’s 87, 13 short of a century. I’m not sure what it is for NZ.

20. I really enjoyed the puzzle. I managed to solve it all, although I couldn’t pass SKIN TEST . I was very held up by thinking it was SKIN DEEP, for ‘least’ and a comfortable assessment, but I was never very happy. Eventually the long middle clue resolved itself.

    I’ve always been told that 111 is a Nelson because he had three sea battles, Copanhagen, the Nile(?) and Trafalgar which he won, won, won.

21. It looks like the whole Wikipedia article (linked in the blog) is going to be reconstructed in the comments.
    I’d been hoping for a discussion on cosmic topology.
    Thanks to Pangakupu and Cineraria

22. A tendency for blatancy in Pangakupa’s clueing, imho, such as:
    – ‘at MIT’ = ‘in USA’ at 5a, even when TOPOLOGY had to be the answer.
    – ‘me’ parsing to ‘us’ at 23a – even when, from the crossers, POROUS had to be the answer.
    Otherwise, a rigorous workout.
    Thanks to P and Cineraria.

23. 111 is so obviously not a prime number. One of the attributes of any multiple of 3 is that the sum of the individual digits is also a multiple of 3.

    I always wish when I come here on a Saturday morning is that I had kept the crossword. Alas during the week sometime it got thrown out.

24. The traditional Test Match Special repartee was to ask the scorer, Bill Frindall, why 111 was called Nelson:
    “It’s because Nelson had one arm, one eye and one…”
    “Thank you, Bill”

25. I enjoyed this one, and worked around a couple of bits of NHO such as LOGY. Though is IDÉE FIXE really a term that’s been integrated into English-speaking usage? I wonder why it would be.

    My favourites were BRIDGEWORK, POLO-NECK, COSMIC, OF COURSE, CENTREPIECES and UGLY, but I think the whole thing was imaginative.

    KVa@6/7: I saw it as That’s more like it ->
    That’s doing it in a way more inclusive of technology -> that’s adopting technology.

    Thanks both

26. There appears to be no evidence that Nelson suffered from monorchism but that never got in the way of a joke; it is a condition more frequently associated with Hitler.
    2d TAO sounded as though it could be a Chinese philosophical expression meaning “the way” and Google confirmed it. I had hesitated to enter it because “by gum” seemed very mild to be called an oath. On the other hand it is a minced oath, a euphemism for “by god”.
    5a We’re used to Nice meaning “in French” but MIT meaning “a North Amrrican expression” seemed to be stretching things, even if used in a clue about a university subject. This was another I had to check as I thought TOPOLOGY had to do with geography, like topography with “topos” being Greek for “place”.
    15d I couldn’t find N for “note” in Chambers.
    Woody@15 not sure what’s wrong with POROUS. “Give us a hand” and “give us a job” are common expressions in both senses of the word.
    I found this chewy with rather a lot of Lego clues but worth the struggle.
    Thanks to Pangakupu and Cineraria.

27. Pino@15, yeah I guess POROUS is fine, I just wasn’t on the wavelength to pick it up. Also my auto correct very much wants you to be called Pink, so apologies in advance if this is how I end up addressing you.

28. Got stuck half way through, but filled in MEGAPHONE from 3 crossers + word finder. Managed to finish after a struggle, but I needed cineraria’s help for some of the explanations. I had two errors, ONTO for OATH (poor clue, I thought) and IDEM (plausible?) for ITEM. I didn’t appreciate MEH for mediocre. I was reluctant to enter TOPOLOGY and ACACIA for a while, and only now appreciate the US hint in MIT. LOGY is in my 1985 copy of SOED, so not totally obscure. I didn’t spot the Maori nina, but that was not a hindrance in solving.
    Overall, happy to finish, but, unlike Marser@2, I preferred last week’s puzzle. Favourite clue, 5d.
    Pino@15 – Wonder if we’ll ever see the abbreviation “Gizza” for “Give us” (Yosser Hughes – “I could do that”).

29. Pino@26: N for “note” is in Chambers under the entry: “n or n.“

30. Cineraria@29
    It’s not in my 1993 edition!

31. Pino@26 I heard that it wasn’t monorchism that Nelson was alleged to have suffered from. The third singular body part I understand to be referred to is one that we all have one of.

32. [ Woody@27 and Pino@30, is Woody’s autocorrect AI spookily invasive? Does it call you Pink because it knows the cover of your 1993 Chambers has faded that much? ]

    This was a DNF for me; I couldn’t see the plural as singular in 23a POROUS, so I wasted much time looking for a river anagrammed from “poor me”.

    I also had trouble with a lot of parsing, so thanks, Cinerara, for giving us a helping hand. And thanks, Pangakupu, for the prime puzzle.

33. Zoot@31
    Is that so? I’ve never heard that.
    cellomaniac@32
    No, it’s still the same dark red as it was 30 years ago when I bought it because my 1965 edition was deemed too farseeninto to be on public view when we moved house and was banished to the desk drawer upstairs. It remains bright red.

34. Me @24
    Or was it Denis Compton rather than Bill Frindall (or possibly both?)

35. Don’t get ‘bills’ = (2x) accounts. Accounts are not bills. Never heard anyone say they are all eyes, though I’m all ears. MIT horrible and us is not me – a misuse indicator might’ve soothed the irritation a little . Logy not in my old Chambers, nor head. All too itty bitty and grating though persevered to a DNQF with many unparsed. Must’ve been past my bedtimes…

36. Spoonbender@35: Chambers has the following: For “bill”: “a written account of money owed”; for “account”: “a statement of money owing.” I think in that sense, they are exact synonyms.

    “Be all eyes” is in Chambers under “eye.”

    For “us” = “me,” see Pino@26. That also seems legit, and “me” is also in Chambers under “us.”

    MIT to indicate American: I also think that is a little farfetched, but I cannot see any other way to parse the clue. “Logy” is in the current edition of Chambers.

37. …and ‘application’ is rather a broad category in relation to the instance ‘lotion’ – the blu-tak stretched to sagging point. Though not as bad as ‘thing’.

38. Thanks Cineraria (@36). I wasn’t making enough use of the good book clearly, even my olde edition. I did find ‘all eyes’ in my edition now but the usage so unfamiliar to me it hadn’t occurred to go browsing there in the first place. I did go browsing for unknown meanings of ‘wattle’ beyond woven sticks and avian parts and had it not been for tunnel vision might have spotted the potential fit of the Australian brand of acacias then gone against instinct and retro-justified accounts. I give in re the sufficient overlap of ac and bill. I guess I’m giving vent to frustrations more stylistic than strict. Not involving it, in a 5D sense, is part of the pleasure, and am evidently more of an easily misdirected mechanical than particle physicist. Meh 🙂

39. Was I the only person unimpressed by ‘stigmata’? Surely, the plural of ‘stigma’ (= something disgraceful) is ‘stigmas’, and stigmata, the miraculous marks of apparent crucifixion, are not disgraceful at all?

40. No you are not alone, but I felt I had bleated enough. I left the last two letters unfilled for a while until I couldn’t ignore “at it” any longer 🙂

41. I got into trouble with a satisfying but wrong solution: “Indefinable quality” could be MIEN: linked to the writer (mine) repelled couple (swap two letters). Thankfully the impossibility of the crosses became clear

Comments are closed.