Guardian 29,755 – Pangakupu

by

Thanks to Pangakupu for an interesting puzzle..

..where many of the clues involve subtraction of one or more letters.

The traditional Maori Nina comes in the form of two place-names: WAIOTAPU in row 3 and WAIROA in row 9.

 
Across
9 OXIDATION Neat plan, exporting European metal containing zero rust (9)
OX (neat) + IDEA less E + O (zero) in TIN
10 REACH Lecture lacking power and scope (5)
PREACH less P
11 NOSES Bouquets I extracted from rows (5)
NOISES less I
12 LOITERING One It Girl naughtily hanging around (9)
(ONE IT GIRL)*
13 SNOWCAT Be off to secure current winter vehicle (7)
NOW (current) in SCAT. Chambers only gives the trade name Sno-Cat, but this generic version also exists
14 ENDGAME Beckett play, odd piece, hobbling (7)
END (an odd piece) + GAME (lame; sometimes pronounced “gammy”, as in “game leg”)
17 ALPHA Top star: a record Hollywood attraction at the outset (5)
A + LP (record) + first letters of Hollywood Attraction. The brightest star in a constellation is labelled Alpha, as in Alpha Centauri
19 FLY Shrewd attitude honestly dismissed (3)
FAIRLY (honestly) less AIR (attitude). I nearly had to admit defeat on this: the clue seems to indicate that the subtraction works the other way round, but it can be read as ‘a word for “attitude” that a word for “honestly” has dismissed’
20 ROYAL King, say, runs over regarding the people being kept back (5)
R[uns] + O[ver] + reverse of LAY (of the people)
21 MIRANDA Shakespearean heroine the subject of US police case? (7)
Double definition: character in The Tempest, and the plaintiff (Ernesto Miranda) in a US law suit that to the “Miranda warning”: You have the right to remain silent..etc
22 PAGEANT Long time absorbed in long display (7)
AGE (a long time) in PANT (to long [for])
24 JUDAS TREE Location of suicide? Biblical writer suppressing flowing tears (5,4)
TEARS* in JUDE (New Testament book).- a type of tree from which Judas is traditionally supposed to have hanged himself
26 THIRD 33% Tesla employed losing place ultimately (5)
T[esla] + HIRED less [plac]E, and 33% is (approximately) one third
28 NIGHT Black chessman dodging King (5)
KNIGHT less K
29 NEOCORTEX Company investing in exploitation of next ore showing a bit of brain (9)
CO in (NEXT ORE)*
Down
1 TOWN Urban area disconcerted, with personnel leaving (4)
THROWN (disconcerted) less HR (Human Resources, personnel)
2 FIASCO Motor-racing and horse-racing venue combined? Not wholly a failure (6)
F1 + ASCO[t]
3 DAISY CHAIN Cartel is, in time, taking on number of shops (5,5)
IS in DAY (time) + CHAIN (.. of shops). “A group of dealers who buy and sell a commodity among themselves in order to inflate the price to outside buyers“
4 VIOLET Girl having bad time accepting love (6)
O (love) in VILE T[ime]
5 UNTIMELY Up to trickery, finally involving the writer? That’s inopportune (8)
ME in UNTIL (up to) +[tricker]Y
6 BRAE Bank of Scotland to stop releasing krone (4)
BRAKE (stop) less K
7 LAPIDARY Californian cops apprehending one above a railway – impressive (8)
I in LAPD + A + RY. Lapidary means “relating to stones”, hence suitable for an inscription, and hence in that style, so “impressive”
8 THUG Rough haul, including heroin (4)
H in TUG
13 SHAWM Introduction of wind into fake old wind instrument (5)
W[ind] in SHAM
15 DEROGATION Run out, ousting the Parisian from visiting group? That’s vilification (10)
RO (run out) replacing LE (Frenh “the”) in DELEGATION
16 ECLAT Story about Conservative brought up for big effect (5)
Reverse of C in TALE
18 PARADIGM Example, note, drawn from marching millions (8)
PARADING less N[ote] + M[illions]
19 FRAGRANT Fellow with tirade about student event raising a stink? (8)
RAG (student event) iin F + RANT
22 PHENOL Pub promoted single disinfectant (6)
PH (Public House) + reverse of LONE
23 ARISTO Noble Prince abandoning European city as well? Not entirely (6)
PARIS less P + TO[O]
24 JUNG Psychologist’s name used in prison (4)
N in JUG (prison)
25 SITE Malice when barring parking spot (4)
SPITE less P
27 DOXY Party axes good-time girl (4)
DO (party) + X Y (axes (plural of axis) in coordinate geometry)

75 comments on “Guardian 29,755 – Pangakupu”

  1. Expected a tough challenge from this setter and it didn’t disappoint. My favourite was JUDAS TREE and I also liked OXIDATION, LOITERING, MIRANDA, ROYAL above PAGEANT, FIASCO, LAPIDARY, DEROGATION and JUNG. I noticed the two ninas, as highlighted above. I struggled to parse FLY for ages as well.

    Ta Pangakupu & Andrew

  2. Satisfying puzzle, even whilst oblivious to the nina. New meanings (to me) for daisy chain and lapidary.

  3. Yes, the parsing for FLY eluded me, so thanks to Andrew for much-needed elucidation there. And thanks to Pangakupu for a pretty strenuous but very enjoyable morning workout.

  4. Thoroughly enjoyable, apart from DAISY CHAIN, the context of which was new to me, so a DNF. I loved the misdirection in BRAE!

  5. Thanks Pangakupu and Andrew
    A bit of a mix – some nice clues (BRAE and FRAGRANT favourites), some I didn’t parse (never heard of the MIRANDA warning, for instance), and a couple that are just wrong; I can find no justification for “wind” = W, and 33% isn’t a third.

  7. My dictionary has LAPIDARY meaning cutting, engraving or polishing stones. Which would be impressive. I didn’t get anywhere near FLY.

  9. Liked the innovative FLY.

    LAPIDARY
    Chambers has ‘written in such a style, ie pithy, polished, impressive’

    Thanks Pangakupu and Andrew

  10. Just to note that the two places are the end points of NZ’s State Highway 38. 38 was rather an irksome number to find a theme, but I dare say you’ll all be prepared for its successor…

  11. @Davey #8: As an (ex) mathematician, yeah, I’d say 3.14 isn’t pi and 33% isn’t a third, really 😉

  12. Pangakupu @10: I imagine you have already taken steps towards the next one. WAI O TAPU sounds like a place worth visiting.

  13. I needed the blog for some explanations today: I had guessed at the meaning of LAPIDARY and, like some others, have never encountered DAISY CHAIN in that context. And I was absolutely nowhere near seeing FLY.

    Thanks both

  15. Enjoyable for the most part but I find LAPIDARY = impressive a bit of a stretch, and also struggle with FRAGRANT and stink. They seem virtual antonyms to me.

    Enjoyed JUDAS TREE & DOXY.

  18. Alan C@1 has mentioned my favourites already.
    Again this one took me longer than it should have*, but it was a clever little puzzle. Like others, I didn’t see the parse for 19a FLY, thinking perhaps the answer was SLY for “Shrewd”. Another good reason why I like doing “CROSS – words” – at least the crossers (thanks FRAGRANT@19) helped me to get the solution, though unfortunately not the reason why.
    I do like coming here to find out what the Māori ninas are in Pangakupu’s offerings, so thanks to Andrew for that as well as a thorough explanatory blog. And of course many thanks to Pangakupu for always including that extra bit of fun (and the further lovely touch regarding the juxtaposition of the two NZ placenames in the post@10), as well as for the inventive setting.
    [*And belated warm words of gratitude to Eileen and others who sent me well wishes in the blog for Monday’s Dynamo puzzle – they were very much appreciated and very heartening. JinA]

  19. Ouch. Couldn’t identify the subtraction fodder for TOWN, THIRD or FLY and have never heard of the MIRANDA warning or a DAISY CHAIN cartel, so I learned a thing or two today and there were a lot left unparsed. I did enjoy BRAE, LOITERING, JUDAS TREE, FIASCO, SHAWM and DOXY.

  22. Thanks MOH @6 – I had missed the second insertion indicator.

    But 33% isn’t a third. It’s like declaring pi to be 3, for convenience (as one US state once did!)

  23. Pangakupu (thanks for dropping in @10 and will take note) is probably the second toughest setter for me. I completed this, but despite spurts of inspiration, I never feel at home in his grids. I was alert to the Maori nina and it actually helped when I had WA_ _OA across Row 9. There were some unusual definitions and words. I’d forgotten about ‘neat’ being an OX; that one puts the arch into archaic and left a gap in my parsing. I googled SHAWM and DOXY before entering, having already googled the plays of Beckett. This was the first time that I have proactively used JUG for prison since learning it last week.

    Thanks Andrew and Pangakupu

  24. Another recovering mathematician here: no, 33% is not a third, and 3.14 is not Pi. Fun fact: 1/3 = .333…, so multiplying both sides by 3 gives 1 = .9999…, something mathematicians are comfortable with but tends to upset the general public.

    Nho of that meaning of DAISY CHAIN so couldn’t understand 3d. I did like the rest of the puzzle though.

  25. My very first thought when I had an M in place for the Shakespearean heroine for 21ac was me wondering whether she could be MIRANDA. But absolutely no idea about why she deserved her place in the grid. Found this tough throughout, and as others have stated I needed Andrew to unravel the parsing with several. JUDAS TREE held me up for ages. But a very fair, if stiff challenge today, I thought. Many great clues, particularly liked FIASCO and PARADIGM. SHAWM a new one, but gettable from the clueing, that one required the Check button…

  27. (Muffin @22 I’m sure the Book of Heroic Failures by Stephen Pile contained a story of pi de jour being 4 at a conference of some kind. Google won’t back me up though, the infamous 3.2 in Indiana comes up in all the searches.)

    I agree that 33% isn’t a third, not that it’s a matter of opinion, but it also got me straight to the answer, which then had to be parsed.

  29. Thanks Pangakupu, some very interesting clues and I think it favoured my GK. DEROGATION, FIASCO and NEOCORTEX all brought smiles. Thought I was on from when my FOI was LAPIDARY but I was unseated by the NW corner.

    After about five minutes googling I’m not convinced cartel is a fair definition of DAISY CHAIN, or for where SCAT came from in 13a. NHO Ox = Neat or DOXY.

    Tim C @ 26 that is a very fair question, and I think in a crossword it’s fair to say with how stretchy some definitions are, 33% being equivocated to a third is common enough in normal parlance to be more than reasonable.

  30. Tachi @29 SCAT is “Be off!” as in shoo! Seemed straightforward to me.
    I managed to fill in all the clues, but did need help with a lot of the parsings.

  31. As usual I found Pangakupu at just the right level of challenging for my skills.

    Several NHOs for me. Neat for OX, BRAE, JUDAS TREE (yet again my knowledge of fauna and flora lets me down), DOXY, ARISTO for aristocrat, among others.

    Nonetheless I got there in the end with just a couple unparsed.

    Thanks Pangakupu for the puzzle and Andrew for the blog.

  32. It’s Pangakupu but it’s not Phi day or Pi day as far as I know.

    I got a bit stuck in the SE corner but managed to resolve it all to my satisfaction. I liked the neat plan in OXIDATION and also enjoyed UNTIMELY, DEROGATION, PARADIGM and ARISTO.

    Thanks to Pangakupu for explaining his 38th and to Andrew for decoding it all.

  33. I was fine with 33% as 1/3, definitely it’s not totally accurate but I’m happy with 2 significant figures in a crossword.
    I was more worried about lapidary, I knew the jewellery definitions and still find a challenge to stretch that to impressive.
    Tachi@29 I’ve seen “Scat!” Used in American novels as an emphatic dismissal, usually to children, I’ve vaguely assumed it is derived from scatter.

  34. As an American, I found the MIRANDA rights familiar. Can’t say the same for DAISY CHAIN. The parsing of FLY eluded me.

    And can someone produce a sentence where “game” and “hobbling” are interchangeable? Related, yes, but not the same.

    Quibbles aside, good puzzle. When I remember to look for them I can usually find the Ninas, though of course I never have the faintest idea what they refer to.

    Thanks to Pangakapu and Andrew.

  35. Dave@28: anything that implies an approximation. ‘about 3.14’ or similar, though from what I’ve seen Pi is usually clued as ‘irrational’ or ‘Greek letter’.

  36. I am a maths graduate from long ago, and I was more than happy with 33% is one third. That is because I do cryptic crosswords for fun.

  37. Found it a little tough to get into today’s puzzle but got there eventually, thanks for the work-out Pangakupu!
    Needed to Google a few answers (SHAWM?), also had to look up LAPIDARY; thanks to @KVa for the explanation of “impressive” there.
    NHO Neat = OX, but now I know 🙂
    Couldn’t parse FLY at all, so thanks to Andrew for explaining that. Not really seeing fair = honest though … “justly” would have made more sense to me, and would have worked for the clue.

    I’m also fine with 33%=1/3 and 3.14 being Pi (in a crossword at least), what else are they going to be?

    Favorites: TOWN, OXIDATION and especially DOXY!

  38. I think KVa is right about LAPIDARY. It’s just the fifth definition in Chambers as in “He was known for his lapidary prose.”
    Sorry, crossed with Coloradoh!

  40. Quite a lot of unusual words here. I had to guess at DOXY – clearly out of my orbit! – but clear enough wp. Of the others: I failed (like others) to parse FLY. Unusual to fail on the short ‘uns!

    I was lucky in that I’d heard of LAPIDARY, BRAE (thanks Burns!), JUDAS TREE, ARISTO. PHENOL (memories of school chem. lab and horrible smells!) and ENDGAME (the play). SHAWM sounded vaguely familiar, the word nestling in an odd corner of my NEOCORTEX* perhaps… Anyway I wrote it in and then looked up to be sure.

    Special likes for OXIDATION (once I’d guessed it was the bovine version of ‘neat’); UNTIMELY, JUNG, DEROGATION, PARADIGM, ARISTO. But that’s just a selection.

    I guessed at the two ninas but was none the wiser as to their meanings. So they’re place names.

    Thanks to Panga and Andrew.

    *Actually one’s vague memories are more likely to be stored in the Hippocampus. Which brings to mind some sort of clue involving ‘place to study mammal found in water primarily’ or some such…

  41. Valentine@34: I thought at first that GAME meaning lame or hobbling originates from Shakespeare – most likely in Richard III. But I’m wrong: the villainous wannabe king merely intones:
    “And that so lamely and unfashionable/That dogs bark at me as I halt by them.”
    So ‘lame’ and ‘halt’ but not ‘game’. But I’m sure I’ve seen the word used in that sense somewhere.

  42. I liked this. I found it fairly straightforward to fill the grid, but several bits were left unparsed (neat, FLY, MIRANDA, impressive). So thanks to out blogger and other commenters for those.

    I didn’t bat an eyelid at 33% for third in a crossword context, but upon reflection I probably should have done, given that it was the definition rather than wordplay. It could have been “Around 33%” without labouring the surface. But I guess that tells us that our setter didn’t bat an eyelid either, and indeed I assume that precisely nobody thought anything but a third upon seeing it.

    I’m looking forward to 39 next time… I shall try to remember, in case it’s represented in some way other than in the Maori nina.

  44. Regarding the ‘33%’ argument reminds me of that old joke where someone is asked to represent the number ‘100’ in pictures. He draws three trees and then rubs a bit of grey pencil over each one. “Three dirty trees” he proclaims.

    “But 3 x 33 only makes 99,” protests the adjudicator.

    “Wait a mo’, I haven’t finished yet.” And he takes a brown crayon and draws a little brown mark under each tree, and a cheeky-looking dog walking away from the scene. “There you are: three times dirty tree and a t*rd…”

  45. [Laccaria @44
    Not as funny, but you have reminded me that when Billy Twelvetrees joined Leicester Tigers, Geordan Murphy always referred to him as “tirty-six”.]

  46. Re: the wind in SHAWM, I missed the parsing given in the blog and instead argued that W = west (one of the four winds).
    Liked OXIDATION and BRAE. Checked out the Ninas for a change. Bucket list duly updated.
    Thanks, Panga and Andrew.

  47. I confidently wrote in “shampoo” for 13ac (sh-amp-oo) assuming that it was a word for winter vehicle somewhere in the world, till crossers said no.

  49. I’m amazed there’s even a debate over 33%. I spent too long wondering what else it could be because clearly it isn’t a third, and because crossword setters pride themselves on accuracy I knew it had to be something else.

  51. Chambers on LAPIDARY: suitable for an inscription, eg on a monument; written in such a style, ie pithy, polished, impressive. So to be lapidary must an inscription be pithy AND polished AND impressive, or does just being impressive suffice?

  52. Simon S @50 Agreed. Solving this, as I do, in the middle of the night, I entered THIRD and thought, Oh Lord, please let’s not have the mathematical pedants out in force later claiming that it isn’t precisely correct. No chance, as it turned out … To how many decimal points would they like it taken?

  54. Arjay @53

    From the web:
    End
    British
    a small piece that is left after something has been used.
    “a box of candle ends”

  55. Arjay@53. END noun: That which is left; a remnant; a fragment; a scrap.

    I’m familiar with the ”end” of a bolt of fabric or a roll of carpet. They’re the ”odd” bit left over, and ”odd”-shaped. Not useful for a full garment or a substantial floor covering but useful for other purposes, particularly in craft.

  56. Didn’t know about the candle ends polyphone@54. Are they unburned, or burned, collected for when you run out of full candles?

  59. paddymelon@56

    We used to collect the ends of candles coz they make very good aids to getting a wood fire blazing – you just toss as many as you want in and bask in the glow … . We kept a basket of them. Of course you need to use a fair number of candles in the first place to make this worthwhile :-).

  60. Thanks 54 55 & 56 —so therefore “odds and ends” is simply tautologous. They are the same things.

  61. 33% is a third of 99% which doesn’t seem any worse than the regular clueing of eight as square etc. but maths was never my strong point 🙂

  63. Really interesting paddymelon – thanks.

    Here is the take by the complete OED, with early examples (and I was pleased to see that ‘odds and sods’ was the next entry – a phrase I’ve not used for years …). I think their reading fits with yours.

    odds and ends noun (also †odds on ends)
    Odd fragments or remnants; miscellaneous articles or things; bits and pieces. Cf. end n. I.5.
    [Probably an alteration of odd ends, found in same sense much earlier (see odd adj. A.II.8a).]
    [a1740
    ‘Tis a kind of a Patchwork; I own amongst Friends, A new sort of Sonnet of Odds and of Ends… Cou’d I manage my Odds, and Ends, to account, Like a Piece of Patchwork I’ve seen at the Mount.
    J. Brereton, Poems Several Occasions (1744) 46Citation details for J. Brereton, Poems Several Occasions]
    [?1746
    Odds-on-eends, odd things.
    ‘T. Bobbin’, View of Lancashire Dialect Gloss.Citation details for ‘T. Bobbin’, View of Lancashire Dialect]
    1761
    He pieces out the Matter with Maxims, and Scraps of Philosophy, and Odds and Ends of Sentences.
    G. Colman, Jealous Wife iv. 74Citation details for G. Colman, Jealous Wife
    1779
    ‘Tis but unstrapping my chaise trunk, laying out my odds and ends, and the affair is over.
    G. Keate, Sketches from Nature (ed. 2) vol. I. 51Citation details for G. Keate, Sketches from Nature
    1821
    Having pick’d up several odds and ends Of free thoughts.
    Lord Byron, Don Juan: Canto III lxxxiii. 44Citation details for Lord Byron, Don Juan

  64. Thanks for that polyphone. The corruption of the Anglo-Saxon ort/ord seems to hold water.

    (And I can’t get out of my head the image of a basket of candle ends thrown in the fire. It’d want to be a good fire! )

  65. Why 38? Wairoa translates as ‘water long,’ the other way round of course. There are at least 6 Wairoa Rivers in NZ. The one in Northern Hawke’s Bay Phi refers to is a mere 62 km long, so not long at all. But SH 38 is a great, albeit short, road trip from Rotorua (Waiotapu) via Murapara and Ruatahuna to Wairoa which twists and turns through Tuhoe country, the magnificent Lake Waikaremoana area and the dense, green bush land of the Uruwera Ranges. Well worth travelling.

  66. Sofamore@65. See Pangakupu@10. His ninas relate to the order of submissions of his crosswords. This was his 38th and he said those towns were at either end of highway/route 38.
    But I’ll add that to my bucket list on your recommendation.

  68. Possibly sofamore@67. Only the order of submission of his puzzles to the Editor is not necessarily the order of publication.

  69. Bodycheetah@61: I’ve never seen 8 clued as a square. A cube, on the other hand, does sometimes appear.

    Balfour@58: with an infinite number of decimals, yes it would be exactly a third. This is beside the point (so to speak). 33% is not a third, but ‘around/about/over 33%’ would be fine for a clue.

  70. muffin, poc and others: 33% is close enough to a third that I’m willing to bet that most solvers reading this clue will have thought ‘33% Tesla’ might mean a third of the letters but there are five, not six, so 33% must be the definition. That was my thought process and it made this one of the quickest solves in the whole puzzle. This whole thread is misplaced pedantry.

  71. sheffield hatter @70: This talk of “misplaced pedantry” is misplaced rug-sweeping.

    Yes, the clue works because everyone knows that 33% is likely to refer to the fraction 1/3.

    But… part of the value of these threads is that there’s always someone who pays enough attention to the matter at hand to point out inaccuracies.

    Generally it’s different people for different matters at hand. I appreciate them all, even if they sometimes annoy me (I don’t always like to be told that something is not quite right).

  72. Dave @28: The number pi has many different mathematical definitions, all of which precisely identify a particular point on the number line.

    Decimal notation allows us to precisely identify certain points on the real line but not all. For any other numbers, we can get as close to them as we like in exact decimals, but never quite reach them.

    The fraction 1/3 is one such number that we cannot describe by a finite decimal expression. However, if we allow ourselves to use “recurring” decimals, then we can precisely identify any number that is a perfect fraction, such as 1/3, but no other numbers.

    “Most” positions on the number line are numbers that are not perfect fractions. (There are at least two different interpretations of “most”; they both agree on this matter.) The number pi is one such. The square root of two is another such. This bothered the ancient Greeks when they discovered this fact.

    One definition of pi goes like this: it is the smallest positive number x which sin(x)=0 where “sin” is the elementary trigonometric sine function. That function can be given a precise definition: it is the unique function f(x) that satisfies the differential equation f’’+f=0 and initial conditions f(0)=0 and f’(0)=1.

    This is one of the “simplest” definitions of pi, and it is absolutely precise: it refers to exactly one, and only one, position on the real line. It is “simple” only after some substantial mathematical reasoning has been developed.

    Here’s another description of pi. Take the reciprocal of every square number: 1/1, 1/4, 1/9, 1/16, …

    This is an infinite list of numbers. It turns out to be possible to add them all up (even though it is an infinite list). Do so, multiply by six, and then take the square root. This number also turns out to equal pi.

    This second description is seemingly more direct, because it’s quite explicit in what you need to do (provided that you accept infinite sums). But… how do we know that it leads to the same number as the previous description? Well, that’s a whole ’nother story.

  73. Girabra@71. You mention that “everyone knows that 33% is likely to refer to the fraction 1/3” and then go on to say how fortunate we are on this website to have contributors who point out “inaccuracies”. This is a crossword, not a maths exam. There is no inaccuracy.

  74. I agree with William – stink is the opposite of fragrant so is too much of a stretch – though hard to resist as a setter, I’m sure. Does the ? save it?
    Did anyone else see the appeal of skiddoo for 13, and get carried (ferried?) away with skidaddle in mind for ‘be off’? Strange how two of the only snow vehicles I know (ok, snowplough, icebreaker, gritter) fitted.
    No amount of espresso could have got me to ‘fly’ and so I struggled with the S of ‘sly’ for 19d and failed.

  75. All complete except for 6d BRAE, which I should have got. I had the unparsed CREE or CROE

    Jezbob@74, yes, SKIDOO was my first thought, but not enough letters (only one D)

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