A real treat from Brendan today.
Brendan’s puzzles always have a theme and this one was clearly set out in the first clue, which was a write-in for me from the enumeration and I knew immediately that we were in for some fun – and so it turned out: sheer delight from beginning to end.
Both sheep and goat have a variety of synonyms and connotations, giving Brendan plenty of scope and he made full use of it. We don’t quite have the left/right configuration of sheep/goat, good/bad in the grid but we do seem to have an almost equal number of each.
The clues were generally straightforward – just a couple of unfamiliar words, clearly clued and one piece of parsing which has me flummoxed (promptly explained in comments 1 and 3 – many thanks.)
I’ll leave you to name favourites.
Huge thanks to Brendan for a super start to the day.
Definitions are underlined in the clues.
Across
1, 28 Divide the other across answers – classify as good or bad (4,3,5,4,3,5)
SORT THE SHEEP FROM THE GOATS
Jesus’ words in the Sermon on the Mount, from Matthew 25:32-33
“All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.”
9 Elizabeth I’s favourite cheese (9)
LEICESTER
Double definition: Robert Dudley, 1st Earl of Leicester and a variety of cheese
LEICESTER is also a variety of sheep, developed by Robert Bakewell in the Agricultural Revolution [and it’s where I live 😉 ]
10 Name for boy sheltered by Irish aunt (5)
SHAUN
Hidden in iriSH AUNt – here’s the sheep
11 Mythical deities remained years later (6)
SATYRS
SAT (remained) + YRS (years)
12 Buffoon in staff initially unfriendly, needing change of heart (8)
CLODPOLE
COLD (unfriendly) with the middle letters swapped) + POLE (staff)
13 They invariably obey head of state in Arab country (6)
YESMEN
S[tate] in YEMEN
15 Not knowing what a dozen Popes were called (8)
INNOCENT
Double definition
18 Some highly-placed Asians live surrounded by strongmen (8)
TIBETANS
BE (live) in TITANS (strongmen)
A variety of sheep
19 Libertine casting lascivious look over letters found in bathroom (6)
LECHER
LEER Lascivious look) round C H (letters found on bathroom taps)
21 Wicked person always embracing false idol (8)
EVILDOER
EVER (always) round an anagram (false) of IDOL
23 Silly people doctor’s seen in pairs (6)
DUMBOS
MB (doctor) in DUOS (pairs)
26 Camera equipment that’s used for play (5)
DOLLY
Double definition – and DOLLY was the first cloned sheep
27 Cereal crop on island, one delivered in late December (9)
CAPRICORN
CAPRI (island) + CORN (cereal crop)
Zodiac sign, approximately December 22 to January 19.
Down
1 Small movement inserting call for peace attracting much attention (7)
SPLASHY
I’m afraid this has me beaten – over to you
Please see comments 1 and 3 – many thanks, KVa and Simon S
2 Party is in decline (5)
ROIST
IS in ROT (decline) – an old form of roister
3 Endless speculations on sacred books – source for wise men? (3,6)
THE ORIENT
THEORIE[s] (speculations) + NT (New Testament – sacred books)
As in the carol, ‘We three kings of Orient are’
4 Repast is oddly deficient in food (4)
EATS
rEpAsT iS, minus the odd letters
5 Daughter in sport, running and jumping athletically (8)
HURDLING
D (daughter) in HURLING (sport)
6 Relieved to have finished ousting Conservative leader (5)
EASED
[c]EASED (finished) minus c (Conservative)
7 Work on tiny scale, otherwise he can not (8)
NANOTECH
An anagram (otherwise) of HE CAN NOT
8 Get absorbed? Not seriously, by the sound of it (6)
INGEST
Sounds like ‘in jest’ (not seriously)
14 It’s included in nuanced addition to foreign movie (8)
SUBTITLE
IT in SUBTLE (nuanced)
16 I govern US badly, behaving like overzealous employer (9)
OVERUSING
An anagram (badly) of I GOVERN US
17 Deliverer of messages from printer company (8)
INTERCOM
Hidden in prINTER COMpany
18 Hear about object that’s hot or cool (6)
TRENDY
TRY (hear) round END (object)
20 Eastern state calls out for protests (7)
RISINGS
RI (Rhode Island – Eastern state) + SINGS (calls out)
22 Whiskey-guzzling doctor that completes shock treatment? (5)
DRYER
DR (doctor) round RYE (whiskey) – shock treatment being a hairdo
24 Plants and animals in book I translated (5)
BIOTA
B (book) + IOTA (the Greek letter I)
25 Height a river must rise for fish (4)
OPAH
A reversal (must rise) of H (height) + A PO (a river)
SPLASHY
SH (call for peace)
in
S (small) PLAY (movement)
OVERUSING
(a minor typo)
Thank you, KVa!
Thanks Brendan and Eileen
I saw 1D as S(mall) PLAY (movement) around SH (call for peace).
Slow typing again!!
[Written in advance over breakfast without reading the blog or comments yet]:
This was fun.
I’d never heard the key phrase at 1/28 but could see the likely construction from enumeration. On reflection, I see various sheep and goats came out to play, including DOLLY, SHAUN, LEICESTER (longwool), CAPRICORN, SATYR (almost), LECHER and TIBETAN. DUMBOS is close but it seems “dumba” is the name of some fat tailed sheep despite AI trying to shoehorn dumbo in. I didn’t think about themes during the solve. It wouldn’t have affected my progress.
I liked SPLASHY and EVILDOER. I Googled OPAH without optimism and was pleasantly surprised (OPA, meanwhile, is a nasty sheep disease). The Po must be the busiest river in crossword land.
Thanks Brendan and Eileen (I will, of course, read your blog!)
I’m sure I’m not the only one who kept SORT THE WHEAT FROM THE CHAFF in contention until crossers confirmed otherwise. The theme passed me by to some extent, but that’s usually the case unless they’re about as subtle as a sledghammer.
New to me are OPAH, BIOTA and CLODPOLE. I found this challenging but with more than enough enjoyment to enable me to complete, albeit with the services of Word Wizard for those three just mentioned.
Tough puzzle.
I couldn’t parse 11ac 12ac, 19ac.
New for me: hurling = sport for 5d; CLODPOLE; BIOTA, OPAH.
Like scraggs@5, I also initially thought of the wheat/chaff saying first.
It bothered me that it was SORT rather than separate in 1a. Not sure why.
I was also thinking wheat from chaff or grain from tares until I had enough crossers. Nor could I parse SPLASHY either.
Fun puzzle, I was absorbed enough to burn the toast. Thank you to Eileen and Brendan.
Crossbar@7. Maybe because Btendan couldn’tt fit separate. Into the grid.?
TIBETANS, ROIST, HURDLING, SUBTITLE (at first I thought it was a CD), TRENDY (nice def) and BIOTA:
my top faves.
Every across solution is related to sheep/goat. Isn’t it? Someone please help me understand
how INNOCENT and EVILDOER are connected to the theme.
(are they scapegoat and blacksheep?)
Thanks Brendan and Eileen.
That’s how I read them, KVa.
Chambers associates ‘goat’ with ‘wicked’ biblically, hence EVILDOER. Similarly ‘sheep’ are associated with the ‘meek’, hence INNOCENT.
There seem to have been thirteen Pope Innocents, however… a baker’s dozen?
After seeing 1/28a, I thought it was going to be relatively easy, however the puzzle really challenged my vocabulary; a few words I NHO and one (CLODPOLE) I had to look in the word database. I didn’t know INNOCENT = “not knowing” (could I say “I was innocent of this meaning”?!) or SINGS = “calls out” but – yes, it’s in the dictionary. I also thought INGEST meant “absorb” (active form) rather than “get absorbed”.
I’m not sure who DUMBOS are in terms of sheeps or goats; other across entries seem more or less clear, in either a direct or a figurative meaning. Overall, the puzzle was good fun, thanks a lot Brendan, and Eileen for the explanations and links!
Funnily enough. KVa (and Eileen), I had classified those two in completely opposite ways: sheep (certainly lambs) are often seen as INNOCENT whereas goats are associated with wickedness and, thus, EVILDOERS!
Aha, Jay came to the same conclusion, it seems.
Layman – sheep are also associated with stupidity so would embrace DUMBOS for me
…so I don’t suppose those particular slices got INGESTed at your breakfast table this morning, Shanne@8…😄
BIO = biography, a book. I, translated to the objective, am ME. So I was certain that 24down was BIOME, which also corresponds pretty well to the definition… It took the check button to unconvince me.
Nice!
I would query ‘get absorbed’; that is to be ingested, not to ingest.
And I also wondered about ‘sift the wheat from the chaff’ at first.
It’s reassuring to know I’m still way behind the likes of KVa and Eileen at spotting themed items.
I’m pleased with myself for having successfully parsed SPLASHY now, though.
Thanks all.
KVa@10: I think INNOCENT associates with sheep and EVILDOER with goats in the biblical sense (Matthew 25:31ff, where the theme comes from).
PostMark@14: thanks! Yes, it makes sense
Lambs are innocent I guess, but I did wonder, and KVa and Eileen @10, 11 are better. Roist minus its -er was new but I like it, and clodpole a total nho. Fun cruisy puzzle, ta B and E.
Enjoyed this but needed Eileen to explain some of the parsings. NHO the key phrase but guessed it from the recurring sheep references and then saw some goats. Delighted to see my favourite sport hurling make an appearance. But I still don’t know why hear = try in TRENDY?
Blaise @16: me too.
Layman@13: Sheep have famously evolved sufficient intelligence to be able to hunt grass. My wife’s family used to keep sheep and they were notorious for stupid acts such as sticking their heads into fences or hedges and being unable to back out.
I had “the sheep from the goats” without the first word for a while. “keep”? “sort”? Something else I am missing? Got there in the end with the last two crossers.
Ronald@15: I don’t think that works – you’ve used the past participle, to match the clue but the answer is a present tense. I am with Layman here, confused as to how “ingest” and “get absorbed” (or even, “absorbed” with “get” as the link word) match.
MT@21 in the legal sense to hear is to try at court. Also as in a hearing/trial.
Jay, PostMark and Layman – you’re absolutely right, of course. I was too hasty in my response @11.
My original thinking: “Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves” (Matthew 10:16)
Me @21: Argh. Just got it. Hear a case/try a case…I’m such a CLODPOLE…
Thanks Jay @23!
… then again, as per Jay et al, aren’t goats associated with witchcraft and evil … so, dunno 🙂 ..
Jay, PM and Layman
INNOCENT and EVILDOER
Thanks.
A scapegoat must be no ordinary goat and
a black sheep likewise must be no ordinary sheep.
Got it.
In 1a I can’t see anything in the quote that suggests separating sheep and goats defines them as good or bad? If that is the inference then are some nations good and some bad in the eyes of god? Wheat and chaff seems like a better answer but that would have been a tricky theme to pull off 🙂
I thought TRENDY was vey good
Cheers B&E
Jack Of Few Trades@22: thanks for this example! I, too, had 1a without the first word for a while…
As an afterthought, I wouldn’t have been surprised to see either Ronaldo or Messi in the puzzle (depending on whether the setter agrees with Piers Morgan or not) – but perhaps the setter preferred to go neutral on this 🙂
Isn’t Capricorn a goat too?
Martin@18
I am a certified theme-blind solver. Brendan said: Look for sheep and goats in the across solutions.
So…
INGEST
Numerophile@17
If we read it as ‘get (something) absorbed’, then it should work.
Matthew 25: 31-33.
All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
Bodycheetah @28
The whole parable explains the separation of the sheep and goats / good and bad – see here:
https://www.gotquestions.org/parable-sheep-goats.html
Jay @12
I’d overlooked your final comment. I didn’t look up how many Innocent Popes there were. I’m sure you’re right but, in mitigation, I know I would tend to use ‘a dozen’ rather loosely, as I did ‘a couple’ in my preamble. 😉
Everpuzzled @30 – yes, CAPRICORN is a goat: all the across answers are either sheep or goats.
NHO clodpole but still confused as to why it is either sheep or goat. Am I one?
Eileen@34: Does that include CLODPOLE? If so the connection must be very tenuous (a buffoon being a goat in some sense?) The only answer I failed on as I’ve never heard of it.
HFC @35 and poc @36
That was one my ‘couple’!
Chambers – CLODPOLE: a stupid fellow, a bumpkin; GOAT: a foolish person.
For those not understanding the association of “sheep” and “innocent”, read and understand Isaiah 53, in particular “He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.” describing the only innocent man who has ever lived.
I had the following btw…
Sheep
Leicester, Shaun, Yesmen, Innocent, Tibetans, Dumbos, Dolly.
Goats
Satyrs, Clodpole, Lecher, Evildoer, Capricorn.
although I suspect dumbo may be a goat and that would even things out.
We had INGEST similarly clued by Alia last week and also blogged by Eileen. I really enjoyed the versatility of the theme with plenty of scope as Eileen suggests. I also liked the use of cold/cool/hot in LECHER and TRENDY and the hidden INTERCOM. I wonder if Brendan was a hurler back in the day in Ireland.
I’ve just seen your entry above Tim C. I had the same.
Ta Brendan & Eileen.
There’s always something going on in a Brendan puzzle. Sometimes it’s hard to figure out exactly what it is, but this was not one of those occasions! However it is interesting that there’s some debate as to which category some of the across answers fell in, eg INNOCENT and EVILDOER. I think I would agree with Layman @19, but KVa’s opposite take @10 is also clever.
As for DUMBOS, there’s an argument that these are sheep (Jack Of Few Trades @22), but Chambers includes for “goat”, “a foolish person (inf)”. And this could apply to CLODPOLE too. (As pointed out by Eileen @37 while I was typing 🙂 )
Many thanks Brendan and Eileen.
Just to show my age, the only time I’ve ever come across CLODPOLE or its variants was when reading the Jennings books as a child, and encountering the made-up profanities, which included ‘addle-pated clodpoll’.
Nothing much to add to what’s been said about a wonderful puzzle, except that TIBETANS could refer to both sheep (the argali) and goats (the Tibetan plateau goat, which is one source of cashmere). Thanks Brendan and Eileen, for the customarily excellent blogwork.
I resisted CLODPOLE for a long time because the correct spelling, to the best of my knowledge, is CLODPOLL (from poll = head, as in poll tax).
Part of the reason that it was so difficult to SORT THE SHEEP AND GOATS in that time and place was that the early sheep were similar to Jacob sheep, so called as they fitted the description in the Bible. Having hand-reared a rejected Jacob sheep lamb (ewe produced triplets and could only manage 2) and handled goats, I understand the subtlety of the task.
[ronald @15 – nope, wasn’t my toasted teacake, it was my daughter’s so she got to INGEST it – as a way of making GF edible. I had muesli.]
Tim C @39 and Alan C @40 – my original intention was to highlight and colour code the sheep and the goats, but, when it came to it, I wavered re DUMBOS and chickened out!
I think Brendan, with the instruction ‘divide the other across answers’ is toying with us if not, ahem, kidding.
At first glance I saw more sheep than goats but an argument can be made for both a sheep and a goat meaning a foolish person. Further rumination required.
Thanks Brendan and Eileen
AlanC @40, now there’s a great spectator sport. Michelle @6 should watch it. 🙂
Shanne @45 – along the same lines …
Being familiar with sheep and goats from picture books as a child, I was always rather puzzled by the parable. Years later, when I went to Greece and saw sheep and goats grazing together, it all made sense. (I remember hearing a rather good sermon on the topic, pointing out that it would take a Good Shepherd to distinguish them.)
Eileen @46: I’m sure the sheep would have followed your choices🙂
Tim C @48: not a sport for the faint-hearted!
paddymelon@9 I could obviously see it had to be a 4 letter word to fit in the grid, but having got “separated” firmly lodged in my head nothing else seemed right. I still don’t like SORT very much – for no good reason. However had it been wheat and chaff I’d have been happy with sort.
I agree with Conrad@44 about the spelling of CLODPOLL, and had trouble working out what was going on with its middle letters. But the jorums for me were ROIST and the OPAH fish, and I had BIOTA as a possible FLORA for a while.
Like others, I saw the long phrase early from enumeration but didn’t identify the first word until later – some of the sheep/goat connections are fairly tenuous and TIBETANS could be either. Thanks Brendan – that was fun.
Thanks Eileen for illuminating the dark recesses of this puzzle.
CAPRICORN – “cereal crop on island” – following the clue, why doesn’t the corn come before Capri? It not only comes first in the clue but it’s also ‘on’ it?
I learned there is also a river Apo, in the Philippines, but I thought that was a bit obscure!
Conrad @44 and Gladys @52
Collins and Chambers both give both spellings.
Collins: ‘clodpole, clodpoll, clodpate a dull or stupid person’
Chambers: ‘clodpoll, clodpole, clodpate a stupid fellow, a bumpkin – take your pick of the order!
James @53 – ‘on’ usually indicates ‘after’ or ‘following’ in this type of clue – but it sometimes causes discussion.
Having SORT(ed) THE SHEEP FROM THE GOATS, it didn’t help much in getting the last few answers. I liked CLODPOLE, LECHER, THE ORIENT, and CAPRICORN. James @53; conventionally, ‘on’ in Across clues often means after, and in Down clues means above (although some argue the opposite as in the spider can be on the ceiling. I always think that that is incorrect because ‘on’ there means attached not underneath, but I guess the debate will go ON and ON.)
Thanks Brendan and Eileen.
I remembered clodpole, or clodpoll, from studying Shakespeare for A level Eng Lit, during which we learnt a wealth of weird and wonderful words.
A superb puzzle from Brendan, one of my favourite setters, and a brilliant blog from.Eileen. Thanks to both.
It’s all been said but it was great fun!
I see online that there are both TIBETAN sheep and goats. The goats are called Takin. But I’m no animal expert. Maybe someone else can comment on this.
CLODPOLE and OPAH were new to me.
I loved the long clue, STSFTG, which directed us to the theme.
Ticks also for TIBETANS, TRENDY, DRYER (for the shock treatment) and BIOTA.
Thanks to Brendan and Eileen.
1A was also a write-in for me, but knowing nothing about either sheep or goats it didn’t help me. In any case a pleasurable and rapid solve. NHO of OPAH, nor CLODPOLE and its synonyms CLODPOLL and CLODPATE.
The OED has both CLODPOLE and CLODPOLL, but curiously its citations only list the former spelling. Shakespeare is given as the first usage.
For the most part, I love theme puzzles (of this sort), because if you get stuck there might be another route to figuring out a particular answer and getting the ball rolling again. As it happens, the theme did not help me here (witness all the comments trying to interpret some of the answers in light of the theme after the fact) but it was still good fun, as usual for Brendan.
This talk of sheep and goats is all very interesting but in looking up a vague memory that Opah is a fish, I learned that it is also the only known warm blooded fish. Pretty cool huh?
All the more impressive for the absence of the usual suspects for sheep, Suffolk and Jacob. Do we have an unfairly harsh view of goats, stupid, lecherous and going to Hell?
I was thinking as Petert @62: how did goats get such a bad reputation?
We do have the initialism “the GOAT” (the greatest of all time), but there are few arenas where there’s an indisputable GOAT.
I really enjoyed this, I didn’t think of satyrs as deities, so that was my LOI even with the wordplay.
I was another who thought of clodpoll, but was happy to assume variant spelling.
Fabulous crossword and blog. I’m glad that Brendan told me there was a theme, I usually don’t spot them. I just googled which were the more intelligent and the answer was sheep so that makes Sheep 6, Goats 5 with TIBETANS batting for both teams.
Also FWIW I parsed 20dn as IS in RINGS.
Perfect midweek fun, thank you Brendan! (I agree with PeterT@62 and MrPenney@63; Bible apart, in modern society it’s sheep behaviour we need to worry about, not goat)
Good fun from Brendan, assumed wheat/chaff for 1/28 initially, but luckily got EASED quickly.
Favourites LECHER, YESMEN, INGEST, last one in CLODPOLE.
Chambers: Opah – “a large sea-fish with laterally flattened body,constituting a family of uncerain affinities” Eh?
(Sounds like mine (family that is,not body))
[On holiday in the Middle East years ago Mrs Offspinner and I couldn’t tell which of the local livestock were sheep and which goats.
We started calling them “shoats”.]
Just for grim fun the Cake song Sheep go to heaven I mentioned in the comments.
As with Scraggs@5 and others, not the best start by confidently writing in Sort the Wheat etc and feeling very smug about myself for getting it from the enumeration. I guess the other saying of ‘pride comes before a fall’ applies here. Not heard of the bible phrase but it was obvious from the checking letters.
Really enjoyed this one. DUMBOS and the well hidden INTERCOM amongst the favourites.
Thanks Brendan and Eileen
Thanks Brendan and Eileen
Yes, very clever, but I’m surprised that no-one has commented (I think) on the unfortunate repetition of “over” in both clue and solution at 16d. I convinced myself that OVERUSING couldn’t possibly be the solution until no doubt remained.
Muffin@72, I did see that and also noticed that ‘over’ as a four letter sequence is also present in the fodder.
Don’t think anyone has clarified DUMBOS properly re. the theme yet.
‘Dumbo goat’ is often used to describe very long-eared breeds, such as those of the Nubian variety.
Davey @74 – you’re quite right: that hasn’t been entirely resolved.
Assuming that there was intended to be an equal number of sheep and goats in the grid(?), the equivocal entries seem to be TIBETAN and DUMBOS – equally viable, I think. If not, the discussion is, I think, irrelevant.
I’m prepared to leave it there unless Brendan drops in, as he does from time to time. Renewed thanks to him for a brilliant puzzle and to everyone here for a most interesting discussion.
I agree with numberophile @17 about “get absorbed.” Is there anyone who can bring clarification?
Completely mis-parsed 1d. I thought pl = please = call for peace and sashy = sashay for “small movement”
As I’m Irish I was glad to see “hurling” make an appearance!
Frogman@76- “I ingest liquid” = “I get liquid absorbed”, which is more correct than “I absorb liquid” (unless it’s the intestine talking…)? That’s how I understood it.
So, for 1a, 28a the parsing is meant to work by solver recognising that a load of answers can be classified as sheep or goats? I’d only recognise Capricorn and Dolly. I fudged the solve using crossers and the check button. Still, unlike most Wednesdays, I could do most of it.
Also, isn’t “shock treatment” at 22d Sir Alex Ferguson’s notorious “hairdryer” outbursts against players who did not perform well enough?
Thanks Eileen and Brendan.
Yes, I suppose that the odd CLODPOLE comes on here to act the goat now and then.
Thanks all for a great puzzle and blog.
Good fun and fairly straightforward although we didn’t pick up the theme until after.
I am a bit dubious about protests = risings: there seems to be a clear difference in motivation and scale (speaking as two people who have participated in the one but never — so far — the other.)
Thanks to Eileen and commentariat.
A very clever puzzle – Eileen sums it perfectly.
Clodpole? Roist!? I mean, really – last attempt at a Brendan for me. Gadzooks …
Came close with this one, just missing three: 20d BIOTA, 25d OPAH, and 27a CAPRICORN
I also got THE SHEEP AND THE GOATS right away, except I couldn’t figure out what to do with them, since SEPARATE wouldn’t fit. Not sure that SORT counts as a legitimate phrase for a crossword. It doesn’t show up in a quote-enclosed search
By the way, Goats have now been redeemed, standing for Greatest Of All Time, a very high compliment indeed (as mrpenney@63)
Love SHAUN the Sheep — the original being one of my favourite movies!
We thought that Leicester might refer to Vardy (also referred to as GOAT sometimes) though I would certainly give Messi that title.
I searched CLODPOLE GOAT and discovered it was a worm infested goat.