Guardian 29,789 / Carpathian

58 comments on “Guardian 29,789 / Carpathian”

1. Reasonably straightforward but very enjoyable. No standout clues although I liked STRATAGEM and the two RAVENS atop each other. OTHELLO was the only clue to give me a real problem.

   Ta Carpathian & Eileen.

2. Lots of people on the other site commenting on the straightforwardness/relative ease of this compared to yesterday’s. My experience differs, this was a good outing but it took me longer than Monday’s. Not a complaint, as it’s a perfectly good puzzle, and perhaps just a wavelength thing.

3. I prefer more of a workout than this, even early in the week.

4. Many complimentary comments on the Grauniad site. Despite completing it in short time as with many others I must have got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning, I just felt irritated by the few helpful crossers. Very little that would score more than one on a Scrabble tile; three C Two H and an M was it. So clever surfaces and artful definitions were spoilt for me by what looks to be a bit of a lazy grid fill in the first place.

   Thanks anyway to Carpathian and Eileen

5. I was happy enough with the definition for craven but wasn’t convinced about strong for pithy.

6. Yes, craven/cowardly didn’t sit well with me, also cute/astute and strong/pithy.

   A pleasant solve, thanks Carpathian & Eileen.

7. Thanks Carpathian and Eileen

   GDU @ 6 & Mike @ 5 – From Chambers:

   “cute1 /kūt/
   adjective
   1. Daintily or quaintly pleasing
   2. Clever, astute
   3. Sexually attractive (chiefly N American)”

   “ pithˈy adjective
   1. Full of pith
   2. Forcible
   3. Strong
   4. Energetic
   5. Sententious and masterful”

8. Mike and GDU – strong/pithy was one of mine: Collins has only ‘terse and full of meaning or substance’ but Chambers has ‘full of pith; forcible; strong …’

   I’ve no problems with cute/ astute – Collins has ‘clever, shrewd’; Chambers has ‘astute’.

   (I’m thinking of introducing a new abbreviation: It’s In Chambers 😉 )

   (I see I’ve crossed with Simon.)

9. CRAVEN in the online OED has:
   2.a. That owns himself or herself beaten or afraid of his or her opponent; cowardly, weak-hearted, abjectly pusillanimous.

10. Very much doable, with good clueing and nothing too difficult, and enjoyable. Some definitions did seem a bit off though. LOI was OTHELLO; didn’t know DAM as mother or CHAT as a bird (guessed it might be one). Good fun, thanks Carpathian and Eileen!

11. Had to love it if only for EELS, given that Parra have just avoided the wooden spoon (again) this year. ‘Tin’tin Chambers though(do we need TTC as well as IIC Eileen?).

12. I think this must have been my fastest completion ever. People are hard to please, always wanting their own Goldilocks level of difficulty. I enjoyed this one but would get bored if they were all this easy.
    Thanks both.

13. Good, fairly straightforward Tuesday puzzle with Carpathian’s usual pleasing surfaces. I liked STRATAGEM, where the fodder wasn’t traitor as I thought at the beginning, SENTIMENT where five lost out, and the RAVENOUS bird.

    Thanks Carpathian and Eileen.

14. Relatively straightforward. I always enjoy Carpathian. Great surfaces to their clues and rarely one I think was unfair or too big a leap of logic. PITHY was the clue which gave me trouble in this. I wouldn’t have thought strong was synonymous but Chambers disagrees with me.

    Liked RAVENOUS and CASTLE

    Thanks Carpathian and Eileen

15. Carpathian has come up a notch out of her Quiptic slot..Don’t want to.make comparisons to yeaterday’s..Each stood stand on.their own merits, whatever the day of the week.

16. Well said paddymelon @ 15.

    Thanks Eileen and Carpathian.

17. Very pleased with myself this morning. Lovely clues. A great confidence builder after last week’s toughies. My self esteem has been rescued from last week’s ship wreck by Carpathian, thank you.

18. This took me a little while to get into but fell in place steadily afterwards. Thanks Eileen and Carpathian.

19. Agree with Eileen, a neatly clued puzzle at the easier end of the spectrum. I had a mild brow furrow about CASTLE for “bastille” but, of course, IIC. I also learned I’ve been misusing PITHY my entire life, always thought it just meant “brief” or “curt”. I liked CRAVEN, a word often used by Wisden to describe English batting performances of the 80s and 90s. My favourite was CHEESE, in part because it’s my cat’s name.

20. Always love to see Carpathian’s name on the puzzle. This one was delightful as always, with engaging and amusing surfaces. Agree with Eileen, nothing too outlandish! Lots of favourites, including 7a STRATAGEM (a surface that tells a story), 20a BRACELET (for the “pair hire out” misdirection), 16d EELS (for the gory surface!), 18d CREAM TEA (funny), 19d OTHELLO (for the excellent, most pithy surface)

    10a had to be PITHY, so I checked Chambers for confirmation

    LOI 24a LOYAL, took a while for the penny to drop

    6d CASHMERE, I was thrown by MERE for pool, but I IIC, “pool or lake”

21. Mostly fun, but agree with those questioning cute/astute and strong/pithy. “Cute” can certainly mean “clever”, but in my experience only in the sense of “too clever by half” rather than “smart”. And I’m sure “strong” for “pithy” is in Chambers, but I increasingly wonder where Chambers gets some of its stuff from, because it doesn’t seem to be real life.

22. I had similar thoughts about substitutions expressed by GDU@6, but I knew there would be dictionary support, as we’ve seen. Now, the OED prides itself on giving the first attested use for any sense. Sometimes I think we need a resource for the LAST time anyone uses a particular meaning! Not entirely serious there (but maybe a teeny-weeny bit).

23. Neat clues. Thanks

24. [Eileen@8; TimC@11: Can I suggest, just to keep people on their toes, IIC (It’s In Chambers), and IIIC (It Isn’t In Chambers). Hopefully it will ensure that people read the comments carefully.]

25. A fairly gentle ride today – quite a change after the Enigmatist I struggled with some days ago!

    I’m comfortable with CRAVEN -> ‘cowardly’ -> ‘afraid’, though it may not appeal to all. But it reminds me of a totally unrelated meaning, in connection with the Craven Heifer, an absolutely enormous bovine which was bred in the early 19th century in the former district of Craven, surrounding Skipton in North Yorkshire. I doubt if that animal was ever afraid of anything! Several pubs in the area are named after her, as I recall from when I lived in those parts.

    Wasn’t at first sure about KEN as a noun in 23d – until I recalled that iconic radio comedy series Beyond Our Ken (the forerunner to Round The Horne, both series featuring Kenneth Horne amongst other celebrated comedians). So in that sense KEN as a noun is OK.

    Not sure if I can pick a favourite: perhaps BEFORE (alright FORE is a used-before device); BRACELET for the misdirection (how many looked for anagrams of PAIR HIRE?); PLASTERED for more misdirection; CASHMERE.

    Thanks to Carpathian and Eileen.

26. As someone who is returning to cryptic crosswords after years in the post-Araucaria wilderness, I would like to endorse the comments of Asterisky@19. Too many posts are smug and unhelpful. There must be many like myself who derive great satisfaction from completing these ‘easier’ crosswords. Can’t we just confine comments to the entertaining wrangles over the answers?

27. Laccaria@26 Keats On first looking into Chapman’s Homer “Then I felt like some watcher of the skies/ When a new planet swims into his ken.”
    Got there before Balfour.🙂

28. Mig@21 the village I grew up in had a mere, so I was happy to see it 🙂

29. The largest lake in England is named WinderMERE – although I concede it’s rather more than a ‘pool’!

    Asterisky@19 and de’Ath@27: yes this site is ostensibly a help site – but it’s a lot more than that! Why stifle informed debate?

30. Top ticks for PITHY, NOMAD and the splendidly succinct OTHELLO

    D@27 and A@19 perhaps you could have the courage of your convictions and say which specific posts you have an issue with and how you are able to discern what’s in the mind of the poster? Personally I’d take a bit of smugness over bad-mannered intolerance of other people’s opinions any day

    Cheers E&C

31. Thanks Carpathian, I always enjoy your crosswords. I agree with everything Eileen wrote including her favourites.

32. c@32: it’s a shame/pity you couldn’t come to the game.

33. Thanks Carpathian and Eileen
    Carpathian is one of my favourite setters, and I really enjoyed this one. She started with Quiptics, and this one wouldn’t have been completely out of place in that slot, but that doesn’t spoil the pleasure.

34. Hi Zoot @28. I have been out all day and don’t have one of those clever phones. Thank you for covering for me – good shout. I will not bore the commentariat with any other literary examples that occur to me.

35. I knew a CHAT was from the thrush family and not because of my half-arsed membership of the YOC all those years ago. Not even because of Brockwell’s July warbler celebration. I think it was a single clue from Picaroon in January (17th) when the definition was thrush (the answer was ousel) and I had to do some Googling. True story.

    I liked DIRECTORY.

    I am not offended by people sharing their solving experience. Of course, some of them found it easy. Where else would they share that news? You can’t share much on the Guardian page because the spoiler stasi humiliate you publicly before reporting back their oberführer. I am slightly more baffled by the reasonably regular posters who pop in to say they only solved four. The more the merrier though isn’t it?

    Thanks Carpathian, very smooth. Thanks to Eileen, a delight as always.

36. “I don’t think shame and pity are the same thing but I enjoyed the crossword. Thanks Carpathian.”

    Whoever posted this comment (originally @32) – you didn’t give a pseudonym, only your email address, so I have deleted your comment to protect your privacy. Please see AlanC’s comment @33.

37. ayeaye@29 and Laccaria@30, Yes, it occurred to me after I posted that MERE is a common suffix for lake names

38. Martin@36, thanks for mentioning the CHAT. I thought “bird” was somehow a euphemism for talking a lot (like “rabbit”), so your comment set me straight!

39. re BASTILLE for a castle: the smaller fortified farmhouses on the Anglo-Scottish border, dating from its lawless times in the 14th-16th century, are called “bastle houses”: intended to provide a thick-walled defensible shelter for the farmer and his stock during a raid. Until now it hadn’t occurred to me that the name came from French.

    A nice straightforward puzzle from Carpathian, but I didn’t find it particularly easy.

40. Balfour @35 It’s a pleasure. You may be interested in Radio 3’s Composer of the Week, every day this week at 4.00.

41. gladys @40 – many thanks for happy memories!

    My late Scottish husband was a staunch supporter of the Auld Alliance and, when we began having camping holidays in France, was delighted to find a number of Scottish words derived from French. One that immediately springs to mind is ‘ashet’ ( ‘a large meat plate or flat serving dish’ – IIC, with derivation!) from a menu on a meal out – ‘Assiette de fruits de mer’.
    Over the years, we garnered a number of others – no doubt I will recall some of them at around 3.00am.
    I’d love to hear of any others!

42. “Raven” appears twice in the 4th column. Thought it might be significant … but no!

43. IIC isn’t IIC, but IIIC is IIIC; maybe that will change

44. Thanks Eileen and carpathian. Mostly been said before, but I found this fair accessible and enjoyable

45. Thank you for eliminating my comment Eileen.to protect my privacy.
    As for Scottish /French – how about “diinny fash yourself” even mirroring the reflexive?

46. Eileen @ 41. I think many people would come up with ‘ashet’ then struggle to think of others. ‘Gardyloo’ is another which, thankfully, is not much used these days. Wiktionary.org has along list, some of which look pretty tenuous.

47. Eileen@41: ‘J’orum’?

    Tim C@11: I like ‘Tin’tin Chambers

48. Eileen@41, you could have a gigot of lamb on your ashet, that you picked up when you were doing the messages.
    Corby for crow is another that you might just still hear being used.

49. ‘Astute’ was the original sense of ‘cute’, which is a short form of ‘acute’. But the OED doesn’t give a more recent citation than 1882, so I call shenanigans.

50. Ace@21, you’re very brave, with your I increasingly wonder where Chambers gets some of its stuff from, because it doesn’t seem to be real life.

    I once said in these pages that I regard Chambers as a work of fiction. You can imagine how that went over. 🙂

51. I was a bit underwhelmed by CASTLE, because I don’t regard a castle (having a significant residencial role) and a fortress (not having such) as the same thing, despite Chambers; and I don’t think “wordplay into definition” really works as a link word – so I spent quite a while trying to put the le/la in the middle.

    That aside, I thought this was a gentle ride. Faves were ENHANCED for the good misdirection, and PLASTERED.

    Thanks both

52. Ace@21, GDU@50 Agreed.

53. I can’t believe that people spend so much time complaining about how easy a crossword is! I would be complaining about a really obtuse Vlad crossword any day!
    Enjoyed this one very much. Easier than Mondays but so what?

54. Eileen, you may be the only one to read this at this late date, but I’m going back to some puzzles I missed during a week away, so am on this one now.

    A Scots/French word I thought of is “douce.” Also, my father and stepmother spent six months at a rented villa in Portugal. While they made real efforts to learn some Portuguese, the British lady who rented out villas couldn’t be bothered. The Portuguese phrase “Não faz mal,” pronounced something like “now fash mal” and
    meaning “no problem,” or “it’s okay,” was too much for her, so she’d say “Dinna fash yersel” instead.

55. Thanks for that, Valentine – I didn’t know the Scots ‘douce’.

    Loved the story – I love that expression. 😉

56. Thank you for the explanations, Eileen.

    Well, I managed to solve 10 clues. Does that mean this was an easier puzzle?

    I like to highlight the very few clues I can solve as a counterweight to those who are fantastic solvers, whom I envy greatly.

    7a I has STRATEGIC
    8a I had GYPSY
    1d I thought “from” meant a hidden clue.

    I won’t drone on…you get the picture.

57. Steffen@56. STRATEGIC is an adjective but the definition ‘play’ is a noun or a verb, so you need to look at the wordplay to see if there’s a hint of a different ending for the grid entry. ‘Way’ often means street, road or lane; ‘traitor’ often suggests RAT; ‘changed’ is an obvious hint at an anagram, and ‘game’ is the only possible fodder for changing.

    GYPSY is a possible answer from definition alone, but if it was me, I wouldn’t write it in until I’d got at least one and preferably two crossing letters. If it’s wrong, you’ve messed up a corner, and if it’s right, you’ll soon find out!

    “From” can mean the answer is hidden in the words of the clue, you are right; but it can also act as a simple link word between the definition and the wordplay: the word defined in the first part comes from the wordplay that follows. If you’ve thought about it as a hidden indicator but got nowhere, it can be a good idea to forget about it and come back later, when something else may occur to you. In 1d ‘saint’ is (90% of the time!) abbreviated to ST, so that gives you a different way of looking at things.

    Well done for getting 10 correct!

58. Way to go Steffen!

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