Guardian Cryptic crossword No 29,807 by Philistine

78 comments on “Guardian Cryptic crossword No 29,807 by Philistine”

1. DNF for me as my GK doesn’t extend to The Eels. However, though defeated by 10A, it does give me an excuse to share this old limerick of mine:

   A grim sex scandal, shocking but true —
   Two electric eels lived in a zoo.
   When Jen said to John,
   “Darling, you turn me on,”
   He did. Now he’s dead (the sparks flew).

   As one of the many thousands of Aussie Jews who are against genocide (including the one going on in Gaza), I strongly endorse the nina, and who better to devise it than our resident Philistinian!

   Thx, setter & blogger.

2. It never fails to amaze me how setters can construct a puzzle with this sort of Nina ‘hidden message’. My favourite being ‘’BOLLOCKS TO BREXIT’ a few years back.
   Thanks to both Oriel and Philistine.

3. I thought 29a was connected to the nina.

   Thanks Oriel and P

4. Failed to complete the SW quarter. Unfamiliar with jolly royal marines. The rest was enjoyable.

5. Completely missed the nina but very much enjoyed the puzzle. Ticks for CLYDE, ERRONEOUS, BIDET. And URANIUM too, even if it was a bit obvious it was nicely constructed I thought.

   I was also held up for a while by EELS though given the vintage the band should probably have been more obvious. Google’s (often suspect) AI search summary suggested to me that rock eels can be “rockers” but it seemed very tenuous (or maybe just wrong) so I’m much happier with the band. Thanks for the puzzle and blog.

6. I enjoyed this very much, although I failed to see the Nina.
   I think GOOD FOR YOU needs another O?
   Thanks to Philistine and Oriel.

7. Lovely puzzle, and good to have a message.
   I think the university in 11a has to be Oxford: we need OU to complete it.
   Lovely puzzle and blog. Thank you

8. Ah yes of course thank you James G

9. James @7. Or Open.

10. Liked ATAVISM, TOMCAT, TUFFET and URANIUM.

    Thanks Philistine and Oriel.

11. Further to BTOB above. It was also Philistine who constructed that puzzle.

12. Very enjoyable puzzle.

    I slowed down in the NW corner and failed to solve 10ac EELS – I never heard of any rock band with that name.

    25d as there was no indicator of US spelling for METRE as a unit of length, I guess it was the noun METER = a device that measures and records the quantity, degree, or rate of something.

    New for me: GUY ROPE.

    I didn’t see the nina but I totally agree with it. I am a volunteer at Oxfam shops and I fully endorse their petition to the UK Government to stop arming Israel. Anyone who wishes to sign it can do a search on the words ‘Stop arming Israel | Sign our petition today | Oxfam GB’. Thank you in advance.

    Favourites: BOB’S YOUR UNCLE, SEEPAGES, TOMCAT, GOOD FOR YOU, CLYDE, TUFFET.

    I love this quote:
    In 1902, Samuel M. Crothers remarked, “Perhaps some of you would like to know what a tuffet is. I have thought of that myself, and have taken the trouble to ask several learned persons. They assure me that the most complete and satisfactory definition is,—a tuffet is the kind of thing that Miss Muffet sat on.”
    which I found on wikipedia under Little_Miss_Muffet

13. I had to do some research to discover EELS and I didn’t parse DANISH BLUE. I am dismayed that BOB’S YOUR UNCLE took me so long. Good puzzle. I didn’t see the nina.

    Thanks Philistine and Oriel

14. Thanks Philistine and Oriel (I don’t think I’ve seen you before, so welcome if appropriate)
    Very satisfying, though I didn’t notice the Nina. EELS LOI as I hadn’t heard of the rockers.
    I liked all the clever hiddens, and PIGMENT in particular.
    Michelle @12
    Yes, I took METER as the device rather than the length.

15. Very enjoyable puzzle with entertaining clues as usual from Philistine. EMANATE and UNEQUAL were both good hiddens with great surfaces. Lots of other ticks.

    michelle @12: I was going to ask if a tuffet is generally for sitting on, or if it was only Little Miss Muffet. Thanks for the quote 🙂

    Many thanks Philistine and Oriel.

16. I like your tuffet quote michelle @12.
    I got to EELS and wondered why the Parramatta Rugby League team was defined by ‘rockers’.

17. METER
    I took it as a verb meaning ‘to measure (by a meter)’.

18. PS looking at the Wikipedia entry for Little Miss Muffet, it says:

    Although the word tuffet is now sometimes used to mean a type of low seat, the word in the rhyme probably originally referred to a grassy hillock, small knoll or mound (a variant spelling of an obsolete and rare meaning of “tuft”). The Oxford English Dictionary calls the “hassock or footstool” meaning “doubtful”, and “perhaps due to misunderstanding of the nursery rhyme”. Many modern dictionaries including Collins, Merriam-Webster, Chambers 21st Century Dictionary and Oxford Dictionaries, however, now give both meanings.

19. KVa @17
    Yes, that’s a bit better.

20. Lord Jim@18
    Yes, I saw that too @ the wikipedia entry and I agree with you/them that a tuffet is more correctly a grassy hillock, small knoll or mound 🙂

21. Like others here, came to see why EELS were rockers, never having come across the band. CLYDE took me far too long as well. Thoroughly enjoyable and witty puzzle and, of course, agree wholeheartedly with the nina, and 29 across for that matter. Thanks to Philistine and Oriel.

22. For 11A, I agree with James G@7 that we need an OU, but on its own this is the generally used abbreviation for the Open University, not for Oxford.

23. But OUP is Oxford University Press? I assumed open university as well though.

24. Patience Muffet was a real 16th Century person, although her father, Doctor Thomas Muffet was of more interest for his research into the medical benefits of insects and spiders! The crossword was delightful and I saw the Nina after a prompt on the G site. Favourites were GOOD FOR YOU (I also parsed it Open University), SEEPAGES, CLYDE and DANISH BLUE (70s porn).

    Coincidentally, I was listening to this yesterday, so EELS was a write in.
    https://youtu.be/ePTnl6Moeyc?si=biBXmQSaWmtLncXD

    Ta Philistine & Oriel.

25. As ever a thoroughly enjoyable solve this morning with Philistine the setter. Left with four across clues unsolved before I turned on the turbo boost. ATAVISM, TOMCAT, CLYDE (spent a long time wondering which vowel might be inserted between the L and the D until I remembered my recent visit to Glasgow). And finally EELS, which band possibly not that well known to all. Many thanks Oriel (had an Aunt called Auriol, apparently because her father went to the College of that name), and of course the good doctor….

26. Our blogger’s first sentence sums this puzzle up perfectly.

    I began, as usual, ticking clues as I went through but this soon became a pointless exercise: there was hardly a single clue that didn’t deserve one. Philistine is one of the wittiest setters around but he’s excelled himself today.
    Perhaps the one that made me laugh most was CLYDE.

    Huge thanks, as ever, to Philistine for lots of fun – and hurrah for the Nina! – and to (lucky) Oriel for a splendid blog.

27. I thought Charlie i.e. Cocaine was also a nice touch in ADDICTION.

28. I also struggled with (guessed) EELS. I thought OLFACTION a bit weak as FACT in the anagrist appears it’s entirety in the solution. Nice puzzle though.

29. I liked the way Philistine combined wit and humour, within a serious message. The surfaces for GUY ROPE, TUFFET and NO-TRUMP had me laughing out loud.

30. Another who’s never heard of the rock band. I bunged in EELS and hit the check button, but remained mystified until coming here. The only flaw in an otherwise excellent puzzle. Of course I missed the Nina, but hey ho.

31. Super puzzle from Philistine, again. Held up for a while by my initial response to 13a – I had taken go in quite a different context to arrive at weepages. Clearly spending far too much time in Paul land!

    Thanks to Philistine and Oriel.

32. AlanC @24: thanks for the link, but having suffered only a couple of minutes of it, I’m now glad I failed on EELS!

    Superb puzzle and I wholly endorse the Nina. Many thanks, Philistine.

33. So much to enjoy. Relatively quick to solve, but several I had to come here to parse. I liked TOMCAT, the wit of To A T, and URANIUM, although I seem to remember the misdirection of US as a plural came up quite recently. I missed the Nina, of course, but applaud both the wit and the sentiment. Also, loved Philistine’s alternative and less obvious way to express their feelings for the heavyweight with too much power.

34. Another entertaining crossword from Philistine. I liked GOOD FOR YOU, OLFACTION, TUFFET, BOB’S YOUR UNCLE, URANIUM (I clocked the Us trick in a good surface), and the obligatory NO-TRUMP that as Dave @3 says is no doubt linked to the NINA.

    Thanks Philistine and Oriel.

35. Great stuff from Philistine. Missed the nina but obviously concur. And there was me thinking he had been less cheeky than usual. Is NO-TRUMP a message as well?

    Liked the semi-&lit of URANIUM.

    Thanks Oriel and Philistine

36. Heartily agree with all the praise for the crossword and the sentiments expressed. And 23 reminded me that I can’t help wondering whether what’s causing all the deaths isn’t Palestine INACTION…

37. William @32: 😊 everyone to their own…

38. Much fun. The parsing of DANISH BLUE and TOMCAT eluded me, and like many others I had not heard of the band.

39. I did notice EEL in Some of these arE ELectric but I was still defeated by the obscurity of the solution.
    Other than that minor gripe, thoroughly enjoyed this. Missed the Nina natch, glad to have it pointed out.
    Off to take some paracetamol and raise a finger to Trump.
    Thanks Philistine and Oriel

40. The Nina helped me (and I heartily agree), as I needed the “G” to come up with Grope in 1A. EELS went in quickly for me (I have 3 of their CDs). Needed the explanation[s] given above for the “extra” O in GOOD FOR YOU. Thanks Philistine and Oriel.

41. EEL was the last one in based on electric and the hope that it was something to with ‘some of these arE ELectric’; NHO the band. Otherwise a clean run and very enjoyable too. Didn’t get the NINA. Thanks to Philistine and Oriel.

42. Very pleasant solve, and a beautiful puzzle. Loi 17a CLYDE — took a while to get the “riverbank” fission, then clang! Didn’t parse 10a EELS (nho). I liked how 12a NUANCED fell into place by following the instructions. 13a SEEPAGES and 16a BIDET raised smiles. 28a EMANATE was well hidden. The surface could refer to the famous riot at the premiere of Stravinsky’s “The Rite of Spring”. 9d BOB’S YOUR UNCLE, great surface. 21d URANIUM, great misdirection with US = UU!

    1a GUY Wire? Line? Cord? Ah, ROPE!

    Missed the NINA — well said, Philistine. I wonder when this puzzle was composed?

43. CLYDE was an instant write-in, not just because I grew up in and around Glasgow but because I have had a nascent clue rattling around in my head for the last few days. It goes something like: ‘Flower of Scotland … Bonnie it isn’t, however (5)’ – with apologies to the thistle. I appreciated the nina, but I don’t feel that even in a NO TRUMP situation it can be halted. I just hope that those responsible are at some time in the future made answerable.

44. DNF but liked it nonetheless (esp. NO-TRUMP), and definitely agree with the nina (being of Jewish descent myself). Thanks Philistine and Oriel!

45. Does anyone away from these pages refer to a hairstyle as a bob? Sounds very 1920’s to me.

    I’ve never heard of the Eels either.

    Thanks for a good romp, Philistine, and welcome Oriel.

46. Hear, hear Philistine. I salute Starmer, Macron, Carney, Albanese et al for using the leverage of official recognition toward ending the carnage. Thanks Oriel for the blog.

47. I have heard of the EELS, but looking at the _E_S and not knowing if rockers actually meant band, chair or some other meaning I’ve never heard of I didn’t give it too much thought and let myself reveal. Having done that I also revealed CLYDE which I don’t think I would have got but is very fun.

    I particularly liked TUFFET and LONG ARM (though I needed help to parse the latter), but all of it was enjoyable for sure.

    Valentine@45 I definitely would refer to a bob, and I’m a millenial!

48. Great fun, thanks Philistine and Oriel

    UNEQUAL, INACTION, NO TRUMP and maybe PIGMENt(?) jumped out as possible accompaniments to the nina?

49. I have always wondered if TUFFET is a euphemism in the case of Miss Muffet!

50. Filled in sear first 10ac. Also part of the surface but a more obscure band. Changed it when 3d didn’t work. Excellent message.

51. Balfour @43: I remember Stanley Baxter singing about the Clyde on his show many years ago (this is entirely from memory):

    Oh the Clyde, the Clyde, the wonderful Clyde
    It’s being polluted by folks far and wide
    And I can’t forget, though God knows I’ve tried
    The things that come in and go out with the tide

52. Wasn’t Bollocks To Brexit Arachne? Anyway, a splendid Nina to top off a witty puzzle, and I needed it to remember EELS – there are just too many possibilities for _E_S!

53. What a brilliant crossword!
    “Charlie” included in ADDICTION was a nice touch, the surfaces to TRIO, PIGMENT and ERRONEOUS were pleasing, CLYDE and BIDET made me grin.
    And, as if that weren’t enough, an awesomely clever nina which, I confess, I only noticed just after I’d finished.
    Wow.
    (EELS was a guess: have never heard of the band but I knew some eels are electric and just, well, hoped that maybe others wobble a bit…)
    Like Mig @42, I’m wondering when this was created?
    Thanks to Philistine, Oriel – and Lord Jim for reminding me of the Stanley Baxter song…

54. Thanks Philistine for a great set of clues. I missed CLYDE and I revealed the ‘BOBS’ of the nho 9d. My top picks were GOOD FOR YOU, NUANCE, INACTION, TOMCAT, VERSATILE, LONG ARM, and WITH IT. I didn’t look for a Nina so I failed to spot it. [While I certainly agree that ‘genocide must stop’ I think many folks forget that certain forces in the Middle East will not rest until the state of Israel is annihilated. That is genocide as well.] Thanks Oriel for the blog.

55. gladys @52

    Arachne has also included political messages (see here, Guardian 25,721 re Daniel Morgan):
    https://www.crosswordunclued.com/2013/02/interview-sarah-hayes.ht

    but BtoB was definitely Philistine – see here:
    https://www.theguardian.com/crosswords/crossword-blog/2019/sep/16/crossword-blog-philistines-hidden-brexit-message

56. Having slowly learnt by doing quick cryptic and quiptic I’m managing to achieve some of the guardian cryptics ( even if I do have to reveal some ). As Im isolating because of Covid, I’ve spent a very happy hour or so with this puzzle. I always enjoy the explanations and blog and today was a real pleasure – tuffet discussions were amusing but mainly it was the surge of support for the Nina. It’s good to know I’m not alone. Thank you

57. Is “with it” still used to me trendy in the UK? It seems terribly 60s to me, but then again I have not lived in the UK for over 40 years. I can’t imagine my children or their English-speaking friends using it.
    Thanks to Philistine and Oriel, was an entertaining puzzle. Very much liked olfaction.

58. I thought this was excellent without having seen the nina, which only elevates its quality in my eyes. I thought all the clues were good to great, favourites URANIUM and CLYDE.

59. Nice to see a cultural reference which for once I knew where most didn’t. The band eels (normally lowercase, definitely not The Eels), had a pretty big hit in the mid 90s with ‘Novocaine for the Soul’. The lead singer’s Dad was Hugh Everett III, a Princeton physicist whose work became the basis for the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics.

60. Lord Jim @51 Ah yes, ‘The Song of the Clyde’, sung most notably by Kenneth McKellar. There are other variants. Years ago I remember reading a short story (I can’t remember the title; the author, I think, was Something Murray) which follows a provincial bank manager whose branch is robbed at lunchtime while he is out schmoozing some clients. He remembers being on a residential course for trainee managers where they sang this song in the bar:

    By Clyde, by Clyde, by Bonnie and Clyde,
    The thought of it thrills me and fills me with pride.
    I coundnae prevent it ‘cuase my hands were tied.
    It’s great when your bank’s robbed by Bonnie and Clyde.

61. Me @55 – my apologies for the faulty link. Correction:

    https://www.crosswordunclued.com/2013/02/interview-sarah-hayes.html

62. pavement @59: yes eels indeed and good to see another fan along with Nakamova @40. I was going to post the link for NFTS but I was genuinely listening to Dog Faced Boy yesterday by chance on a playlist. I think the slippery EELS could also be associated with NO TRUMP..

    BTW your namesake is another excellent band

63. Same as pavement @59, a cultural reference I knew; but I guessed it would fox a few solvers. ‘Novocaine for the Soul’ great song and a must see video as I remember.

64. Regarding eels (the band, not the fish):
    I went hunting for some of their stuff – and this video is delightful…

    https://youtu.be/V2yy141q8HQ?si=LJdEJ1fQpVDmKcwN

65. AlanC@62 – cover is blown, my favourite band. Roadside rockers (8)

66. 👍

67. Hi, I tried today’s full fat cryptic having now finished (mostly) 77 Saturday Quick Cryptics and feeling I must have learned something… Pleased to say I managed six clues before coming to this blog and finding I was nearly there on a couple more. I’m well chuffed, and also pleased I tackled such a great puzzle from Philistine. Two of mine were NO TRUMP and WITH IT, which I enjoyed immensely. Thank you.

68. Loved the NINA. It’s astonishing that anyone could disagree that the genocide must stop. Good to see many comments agreeing.

    Nice puzzle too.

69. Tim @67: Keep at it! Setters like Philistine are worth the effort. He also sets in the FT under the name of Goliath; I find those crosswords a bit gentler.

70. Thank you Tony @69, that’s great encouragement. I remember my father saying “find a setter you like and stick with them, it can then become easier”.

71. A shame to have a politicised crossword.

    The Palestinians brought it upon themselves by kidnapping Israeli children, like WTF. They bring it upon themselves by deliberately using their women and children as human shields for military installations; again like WTF. My disdain for the Palestinian ‘authorities’ is without bounds.

    Killing Palestinian civilians isn’t cool, but the alternative is for the Israelis to let them kill their own civilians. I’m glad I’m not having to make these moral decisions.

72. Am I allowed to say that, although I solved it, I don’t like CLYDE? The point has often been debated but I still think that when you mean ‘River bank robber’ you shouldn’t say ‘Riverbank robber’. Here’s an idea though: present all clues as an unbroken string of characters and give solvers the additional challenge of working out where the spaces should be.

73. Hector @72
    It has been referred to as “lift and separate”, and some of us like them.
    James @71
    To some extent, “what did Hamas expect Israel’s response to be” is front and centre, but there doesn’t seem to be any question that now genocide is being carried out.

74. Rather than Oxford OU stands for the Open University.

75. I’m embarrassed to say I only solved BIDET and RESIN, and got nowhere near any other clues.

    I had THIEF for 17a, which gives you an idea where my abilities lie.

    Thank you for the explanations.

76. I still don’t get 26a. I solved it from the crossers, but I don’t see the relevance of either husband or model, and if you take regular letters you don’t get the answer.

77. RabtheCat @76 – Model is the anagram indicator (as in “to model clay”). The letters to be anagrammed are HUSBAND and the even letters of cLaImEd (LIE). I also hadn’t parsed this until reading the blog.

78. Thank you! Model would never have occurred to me as an anagrind, and I never know which word to take odd / even letters from – I almost always fail on those.

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