Guardian Cryptic crossword No 29917 by Serenos

Thank you to Serenos. Definitions are underlined in the clues.

 picture of the completed grid

Across
1. I superfluously join two banks in which the same cards are issued (9,6)
DUPLICATE BRIDGE : An identical second bridge which superfluously joins the two banks of a river.
Defn: Game …, a form of competitive contract bridge where teams at many tables are dealt the same hands.

9. Cats for example not normally considered this? (7)
    Cats for example not normally considered this? (7)
MUSICAL : Double defn: 1st: An example of which is Cats, with music by Andrew Lloyd Webber; and 2nd: Not a normal characteristic of some animals, cats for example.

10. Turning, pig conceals curly bit, a monster (7)
GOLIATH : Reversal of(Turning) [ HOG(a domesticated pig) containing(conceals) TAIL(the curly bit of a pig) ].
Defn: …, in the sense of someone or something gigantic.

11. Indian address the US taxman rejected (3)
SRI : Reversal of(… rejected) IRS(abbrev. for “Internal Revenue Service”, the US Government tax authority).
Defn: …/title of respect for a man or god.

12. Revolutionary’s taking ammunition round: very brief opportunity to finish off king here (6,5)
BULLET CHESS : CHE(Guevara, Argentine Marxist revolutionary)‘S contained in(taking … round) BULLETS(ammunition for firearms).
Defn: A variant of chess, where each player has less than 3 minutes (a very brief window of opportunity), to mate, ie. finish off the opponent’s king.

13. Foolishly let eclair start to curdle in such a storm (10)
ELECTRICAL : Anagram of(Foolishly) [ LET ECLAIR + 1st letter of(start to) “curdle” ].
Defn: .., in this case, a thunderstorm resulting from electrical disturbances in the atmosphere.

15. Understood sourdough not provided with starter (4)
READ : “bread”(an example of which is sourdough) minus its 1st letter(not provided with starter).
Defn: …/looked at and comprehended text.

18. Observer takes in Queen Jane, a heroine (4)
EYRE : EYE(what is used to observe/an observer) containing(takes in) R(abbrev. for “Regina”, a Queen).
Defn: Surname of … in Charlotte Brontë’s novel, Jane Eyre.

20. Favour cured meat, a somewhat dicey business (10)
BACKGAMMON : BACK(to support/to favour) + GAMMON(cured meat, in this case, ham).
Answer: Board game where pieces are moved according to throws of the dice.

23. One small request, excessive space on motorway badly designed (11)
MISBEGOTTEN : [ I(Roman numeral for “one”) + S(abbrev. for “small”) + BEG(to ask for/request) + OTT(abbrev. for “over the top”/excessive) + EN(a unit of space between characters in text) ] placed after(on) M(abbrev. for “motorway”).

25. Laundry regularly returned, lots of it in the cells (1,1,1)
RNA : Reversal of(… returned) 2nd, 4th and 6th letters of(… regularly) “Laundry”.
Answer: Abbreviation for “ribonucleic acid”, a group of biochemical compounds abundantly found in living cells.

26. Possibly a Russian national tree (and American) (7)
NATASHA : NAT(abbrev. for “national”) + ASH(a genus of trees) plus(and) A(abbrev. for “American”).
Defn: … female.

27. Creature said to take to the water with young on back clinging to side of neck (7)
ROEBUCK : Homophone of(said) “row”(to take to the water in a boat using oars) plus(with) reversal of(… on back) CUB(the young of carnivorous mammals like the fox, lion or bear) plus(clinging to) last letter of(side of) “neck”.

28. This bad-tempered oath a mystery (9,6)
CROSSWORD PUZZLE : CROSS(bad-tempered/in a foul mood) + WORD(a solemn promise/oath) + PUZZLE(a mystery/enigma).
Defn: …, ie. what you’re solving.

Down
1. Block a piece of drama making sudden transformation (9)
DAMASCENE : DAM(to block/barricade) + A + SCENE(a section of a play/a piece of drama).
Answer: Describing a dramatic change in attitude or belief.

2. On rising exude vigour, 4 across examples here (7)
PASTIME : Reversal of(On rising, in a down clue) [ EMIT(to exude/discharge) + SAP(vigour/liveliness).
Defn: …, as highlighted in the grid above.

3. Brood as Guantanamo is extremely tense (8)
INCUBATE : [ IN CUBA ](describing where Guantanamo city is located) + 1st and last letters of(extremely) “tense”.
Defn: To …, as a bird sitting on its eggs to hatch them.

4. Radical supporter on left (5)
ALLYL : ALLY(a supporter/friend) placed above(on, in a down clue) L(abbrev. for “left”).
Answer: A particular radical/a group of atoms acting as a unit in some chemical compounds.

5. From lectern, offer for sale one or two birds of prey (5-4)
EAGLE-HAWK : EAGLE(a type of lectern/standing desk on which to support books or documents while reading from them, in this case one in the shape of an eagle with outstretched wings) + HAWK(to carry and offer goods for sale).
Answer: With the hyphen, one bird of prey, or without the hyphen, two birds of prey.
From Australia:
Wedge-tailed Eagle - BirdLife Australia

6. Old widow taking lid off article for repair (6)
RELICT : Anagram of(… for repair) “articleminus its 1st letter(taking lid off …, in a down clue).
Defn: An archaic/old term for a widow.

7. Marksman’s expressionless gaze (7)
DEADEYE : DEAD(dull/expressionless) + EYE(gaze/stare).
Defn: An expert ….

8. Distinctive character of those cycling (5)
ETHOS : “thosewith its last letter moved to the front(cycling).

14. Soon desert old sweetheart (9)
INAMORATO : [IN A MO](in a moment/soon) + RAT(to desert/abandon one’s party, side or cause) + O(abbrev. for “old”).
Defn: …, in this case one’s male lover.

16. Teacher, put my way some work I don’t know (4,3,2)
DON’T ASK ME : DON(a teacher/lecturer at a university) + [TASK ME](give me some work/put some work in my way or put my way some work, in Yodaspeak).

17. From people in leading university high-level options here (4,4)
MAIN MENU : MEN(people in general) contained in(in) [ MAIN(leading/chief) U(abbrev. for “university”) ].
Defn: … on computer software or on a website.

19. Cook, first to offer to stir dish (7)
RISOTTO : Anagram of(Cook) [ 1st letter of(first to) “offer” + TO STIR ].
Defn: A … in Italian cuisine.

21. Nobel laureate’s emblem unknown (7)
MÁRQUEZ : MARQUE(a trademark/an emblem) + Z(symbol for an unknown quantity in mathematics).
Answer: …, Gabriel Garcia, a Nobel Prize laureate for Literature.

22. Leg straps for James and Norman (6)
JESSES : Plural of JESSE(one for Jesse James, an infamous American outlaw, and one for Jesse Norman, a British Conservative politician).
Defn: … round a hawk’s or falcon’s legs.

23. Computer receiving new input initially furiously busy (5)
MANIC : MAC(short for “Mackintosh”, a range of computers made by Apple Inc.) containing(receiving) [ N(abbrev. for “new”) + 1st letter of(… initially) “input” ].

24. Ready to drop some older items over (5)
TIRED : Hidden in(some) reversal of(… over, in a down clue) “older items”.
Defn: …/collapse from exhaustion.

86 comments on “Guardian Cryptic crossword No 29917 by Serenos”

  1. simonc

    Very reluctant to put DON’T as part of the answer for 16d, as the word is already in the clue.

  2. Etu

    I found this hard, owing to gaps in my general knowledge, so did quite a bit of searching for things like falcons’ leg straps.

    However, I think that this is about par for Friday difficulty. It strikes me that the newer setters generally seem to be at this level of toughness.

    Thanks everyone.

  3. gladys

    Plenty of answers new to me today: DUPLICATE BRIDGE and BULLET CHESS, the EAGLE HAWK, SRI and Jesse Norman… but the only one that defeated me was ALLYL. I liked the unmusical cats.

  4. gladys

    Not all cats are unmusical.

  5. AlanC

    I thought this was very challenging but a satisfying finish in the end. I thought READ as in reading books was the fourth PASTIME until my loi DUPLICATE BRIDGE which was a nho. I thought we were heading for a pangram so was trying to put an x in the last few clues. I really liked GOLIATH, EYRE, MISBEGOTTEN and CROSSWORD PUZZLE. EAGLE HAWK and ALLYL were just lucky guesses, and a sad reminder of the tragic Lady Jane Grey.

    Ta Serenos & scchua.

  6. poc

    Mostly gettable except for a couple of unknowns (ALLYL and the BULLET form of chess).

    García Márquez would never have been known only by his second (mother’s) surname. EIther both of them or just García.

  7. ronald

    Yes, 1ac, 12ac, ALLYL and MAIN MENU all new terms, words or expressions to me too. So I struggled at times with this. But I thought INORAMORATO an excellent fitting together of its parts. MISBEGOTTEN not often heard these days, but rolls off the tongue rather pleasingly. A GOLIATH can be a large combination bet with a lot of hopeful selections…

  8. ronald

    …INAMORATO, even…

  9. tony

    12a ‘very brief’ = s(0)

  10. AlanC

    I think it’s CHE’S in BULLETS for the correct parsing, scchua.

  11. Eoink

    Like Tony@9 I parsed 12A’s second S as very brief, accepting that was then doing double duty. AlanC @10’s parsing is much cleaner.
    I seem to be seeing esses every day now.

  12. grantinfreo

    I thought athlete and singer for 22d, but he was Owens not James and she was Jessye with a y … totally off, pretty much how I did overall, needing help in 20% of it. Back to the Oz Open semis 🙂

  13. michelle

    I failed 22d and 5d apart from EAGLE (what a magnificent-looking bird).

    New for me: ALLYL; DEADEYE = marksman; RELICT = widow; RAT=desert/abandon (for 14d) as well as BULLET CHESS and DUPLICATE BRIDGE.

    Like AlanC@5, I was thinking this might turn out to be a pangram.

    I agree with Ronald@7 that INAMORATO & MISBEGOTTEN were nicely constructed.

  14. muffin

    Thanks Serenos and scchua
    Mostly straightforward, though I had never heard of that chess variant,
    A bit surprised at the enumeration for RNA. Isn’t it Guardian style to give these as (3)?
    Favourite INAMORATO.

  15. Lyssian

    AlanC beat me to it for CHE’S.
    ALLYL was a jorum, but otherwise fairly straightforward.

  16. AlanC

    michelle @13: turns out there is no F or V, so that was a blind alley 🙂

  17. Donnut

    An enjoyable challenge. I spent some time trying to crowbar iv into 2d before the penny dropped. Favourite clue 3d. Thanks both

  18. Shanne

    I thought of Jesse Norman the soprano for the JESSES, rather than the obscure MP, but apparently it’s not spelt that way (Jessye, but Googling Jesse finds her). I knew JESSES from The Once and Future King, but also seeing falconry in action and having occasionally handled the birds, it’s one of the those tactile words in my mind because I can feel them when I hear the word.

    It took a while to get this to open up, but when it did, it made sense, and I also wondered about READ as a PASTIME.

    Interesting seeing how Serenos has set at this level and also the Quick Cryptic a few weeks back – and these are very different puzzles.

    Thank you to Serenos and scchua

  19. William

    Great fun! Had to word-search for ALLYL.

    What is the starting ‘I’ doing in the clue for 1a? To me it would read better without.

  20. TassieTim

    Just realised I never did go back to figure out the James/Normans – but seeing the answer, I doubt I ever would have (Norman who?). Snap, simonc@1. I popped in DNA until I realised that the letters, though there, weren’t regular. Otherwise, pretty good, though I did have to check that the DUPLICATE… and BULLET… were actually a thing. Entering PUZZLE also gave me a pause – I’m going to need answers ending in U and Z? But they came in good time. Thanks, Serenos and scchua.

  21. Adriaan

    Great puzzle, though I was defeated by three NHOs, unfortunately…
    Did not know DUPLICATE BRIDGE as a term and could not come up with the second word, even though in hindsight I should have been able to.
    RELICT unknown and did not spot the anagram.
    JESSES unknown and was misled into thinking I needed a surname rather than a first name, so didn’t come up with it (and did not know Mr Norman, too UKGK for this non-UK solver).

    Minor quiblet would be that the second definition for MUSICAL really is very oblique, though it couldn’t be anything else.

    Very much liked BULLET CHESS, MISBEGOTTEN, and GOLIATH!

    Thanks scchua and Serenos!

  22. scchua

    Thanks AlanC@10. I had this when solving, but missed putting it (‘S) when I wrote the blog. Now corrected.

  23. copland

    There are hawk-eagles, but eagle-hawk is an obsolete name for a wedge-tailed eagle (Australia) and the OED says it’s usage is one in ten million. I’m an ornithologist and it was new to me. Clear from the clue, however.

  24. Alastair

    I’ve been an avid, globe-trotting birder for over 40 years so it always pains me when birds turn up in puzzles. Setters always seem to find arcane bird names to fit in their grids. I doubt if even Australian solvers would have heard of eagle hawk. Lots of hawk-eagles around the tropics, though.

    Otherwise, good Friday fare. Thanks both.

  25. DropBear

    Loved the puzzle

    Knew relict for widow from my obsession with old cemeteries

  26. TassieTim

    copland@23 and Alastair@24: EAGLE-HAWK was the first thing that popped into my head. But I am no birder. Could be because of Eaglehawk Neck not an hour from where I live.

  27. PhilB

    Tough but fair. Nho ALLYL and needed help for this clue. Also nho BULLET CHESS. Had a spare s in the parsing until the Penny dropped as AlanC@10 suggests.
    Liked INCUBATE as well.

  28. DropBear

    [TassieTim spent 3 weeks there in early December. Lovely place to be]

  29. Blaise

    Am I the only one who misparsed RELICT as (dubiously) “Remove the first two letters from derelict in its noun form”?

  30. trishincharente

    I thought this was great, albeit I had to reveal SRI and ALLYL, and I carelessly bunged in DNA instead of RNA. I got off to a flying start, then stalled, then revved up again as the penny dropped with DUPLICATE BRIDGE – big tick for that one. So welcome, Serenos, and I look forward to more like this.

  31. Philinch

    Glad I didn’t go down in flames on this one – it helped knowing all the pastimes, although I needed a couple of letters to remember the name for that variant of bridge.

    Thanks for the puzzle and blog.

  32. Robi

    I’m another who carelessly plonked in DNA at first; I should know better. I liked the GOLIATH turning pig, MISBEGOTTEN, where badly designed wasn’t an anagrind, and INAMORATO with a good surface and nice LEGO clue.

    Thanks Serenos and scchua.

  33. judygs

    Blaise#29 Re 6 down – no, you were not alone!
    Thanks to Serenos for the puzzle and to scchua for the blog.

  34. Vireya

    This was above my level. Only got there with a lot of help. However eaglehawk was easy, as although that name is obsolete, there is an Eaglehawk Rd not far from my home. And I regularly see them soaring overhead.

  35. peter & gavin but not ant

    We thought it was an excellent crossword

  36. Rich

    Quite a few solutions, including 3 of the pastimes, with double (duplicate) letters, enough for a mini-theme?
    BULLET CHESS
    BACKGAMMON
    MISBEGOTTEN
    CROSSWORD PUZZLE
    ALLYL
    JESSES
    (M-M as starting letters of MAIN MENU)

    Also isn’t RNA involved in DNA duplication?

  37. ARhymerOinks

    I thought this excellent – INCUBATE raised a chuckle, as did INAMORATO. More please!

  38. Layman

    I failed on JESSES but enjoyed the puzzle. DUPLICATE BRIDGE is a great surface. I also liked INCUBATE, INAMORATO, DEADEYE, MISBEGOTTEN (haven’t seen the word before – only ill-begotten – but makes sense) and NATASHA. ALLYL was a jorum. Apparently the definition by example indicator is missing in READ… Thanks Serenos and scchua!

  39. Cedric

    Found this quite easy but then I’m used to the setter as he does the Oldie each month. This is a UK monthly magazine for those of an age like me (84). It’s the first time I’ve seen him in a national paper. Ta for blog.

  40. bodycheetah

    Wordplay a bit verbose in places. JESSE not in Chambers so tricky to confirm without further recourse to google. Ticks for INCUBATE and INAMORATO although they do use similar wordplay

    Better than Ludwig and Omnibus. I’ll leave it at that 🙂

    Cheers S&S

  41. Sandman

    There’s another pastime – Go(liath).

    Disappointed to read how many contributors haven’t heard of Duplcate Bridge. But perhaps as a former Chair of the English Bridge Union, the organising body of Duplicate Bridge in England) I may be a little skewed in my world view…

  42. Lord Jim

    It was helpful of Serenos to tell us that there would be 4 across PASTIMES. I had vaguely heard of DUPLICATE BRIDGE and BULLET CHESS though I wouldn’t be able to tell you much about either of them. I thought the “superfluously” in the former was brilliant, implying both its normal meaning and, whimsically, “going over a flow”.

    AlanC @5: yes I thought of Lady Jane Grey too. Alternative Queen Janes include Jane Seymour and Bob Dylan’s “Queen Jane Approximately”.

    Like muffin @14 I was a little surprised to see RNA enumerated as 1,1,1, which did make it a bit of a giveaway.

    Many thanks Serenos and scchua.

  43. Staticman1

    Great puzzle on the harder side in which I had to reveal JESSES.

    Not heard of DUPLICATE BRIDGE which I solved from checking letters.

    ALLYL recalled from crosswords past but not a clue what one is.

    Lots of ticks but ROEBUCK my favourite today.

    Thanks Scchua and serenos

  44. Rich

    bodycheetah @40 JESS is the singular for the falconry straps

  45. HAJ

    #40 Jesses is the plural of Jess.

  46. Ace

    I found this mostly straightforward apart from a couple of clues that hung me up at the end. New to me were ALLYL and JESSES; other than that I had the requisite GK for once. The parsing of ROEBUCK escaped me, and MARQUEZ took an embarrassingly long time to drop even with all the crossers. “See U, think Q” should have been applied!

  47. matt w

    Defeated in the end by JESSES–neither the leg straps nor the MP being familiar to me, though looking at Norman’s Wikipedia entry his thesis “Visual Reasoning in Euclid’s Geometry:
    An Epistemology of Diagrams” seems very interesting! Wish he’d stayed in the business. Also NHO the Eagle lectern but had guessed that from the rest of the definition.

    Stared at 21d for a while wondering if it could be MAHFOUZ. Didn’t help that I was one of those who carelessly bunged in DNA.

    Ticks for GOLIATH, INCUBATED, and INAMORATO (the last two for the clever “in Cuba” and “in a mo”–I’ve seen INAMORATO a bunch but never with that device I think?)

    Thanks Serenos and scchua!

  48. R. Srivatsan

    Nice one. Tough for me, but enjoyed it. Liked many, smiled at SRI for obvious reasons!

  49. Johannes Vig

    Fun Puzzle. With EYRE and NATASHA solved, but only the last two crossers of PASTIME filled in, I spent a lot of time trying to justify HEROINE for 2d.

  50. Bodycheetah

    Thanks R@44 another school day 🙂

  51. Eoink

    Blaise@29, I also had that parsing with a slight shrug.

  52. AndyT53

    Would have got there a lot quicker if I hadn’t convinced myself that a possibly Russian tree that was also American was redwood which was almost my FOI.

  53. mrpenney

    Shanne @18: when I revealed JESSES, I thought, “oh, okay, but Jessye Norman spelled it with a y. Wonder if the setter knows that.” I of course had never heard of the MP who doesn’t.

    I don’t take my bridge seriously enough to play duplicate, but I certainly have heard of it. That was one of my first ones in.

  54. Spike

    Adriaan@21: a Cats’ Chorus is a famously unmusical thing, so not just an example of a non-musical animal.

  55. Tony Santucci

    Thanks Serenos. This took a bit of thought and I still ended up revealing the nho DUPLICATE BRIDGE and never could parse RELICT or JESSES. I liked clues such as SRI, INCUBATE, and RISOTTO. I thought ‘sourdough’ in READ needed a DBE indicator. Thanks scchua for the blog.

  56. Robruss24

    7 down seems to be a double definition to me. A marksman is a deadeye and deadeye is an expressionless gaze.

  57. Simon S

    TS @ 55 I think SOURDOUGH > BREAD is OK, but BREAD > SOURDOUGH would need a dbe indicator.

  58. Drums_are_not_noise

    Too good for me today. Solved Electrical, Backgammon & RNA. Complete blockage everywhere else. NHO Inamorato, Relict & Allyl. Thinking of changing my nom de plume to ‘Reveal All’ but worry about the potential misunderstandings… Much obliged to the blog as ever.

  59. DerekTheSheep

    Nice stuff, with lots of charade clues. I do like the building up of these bit by bit until the overall picture snaps into view.
    Like others, I had not heard of those variants of chess or bridge before, but the clueing was clear enough for them to go in with confidence.
    LOI was ALLYL. Not altogether surprising, as my first year at university showed me that it wasn’t my school chemistry teacher that had given me a down on the subject, but that I just didn’t get on with chemistry, especially organic chemistry.
    Much to like, but I’ll give CotD to MISBEGOTTEN (I did say that I like charades…).
    Thanks Serenos and scchua.

  60. Tony Santucci

    Simon S @57: Isn’t ‘sourdough’ an example of bread like rye, whole wheat, or multi-grain would be? Maybe a question mark would have sufficed.

  61. MartinD

    As a retired English teacher two things; Kes has made ‘Jesses’ popular in some circles. And ‘read’ doesn’t always mean ’understood’! ( Also doesn’t sweetheart imply inamorata? )

  62. phitonelly

    Great puzzle, right up my street. I actively pursue 2 of the 4 pastimes, and as a practicing chemist, I’m very familiar with ALLYL. Another Nobel laureate, Barry Sharpless, discovered this highly useful reaction of ALLYL alcohols- Sharpless Epoxidation.
    I like Serenos’s style very much. Keep ‘em coming! Thanks to him or her and scchua.

  63. Roz

    Thanks for the blog , good set of clues , GOLIATH was neat , MUSICAL hid the capital C very well , INAMORATO was well constructed . NATASHA the only dud .

    A typical Guardian week , all good puzzles , well set and interesting , I am not criticising any of them . Collectively it is all straight down the middle . It would be nice to extend the difficulty range in both directions .

    Yes Martin@61 , I know about JESSES from Kes .

  64. AlanC

    Roz @63: another football reference to Mr Sugden? I replied to your scarcely veiled insult to KPR yesterday btw We’re going to be bashed tomorrow as well.

  65. Roz

    AlanC@64 , Just read your reply from yesterday , surely you meant 18Ac not 13Ac ?
    Going to have a break for a month from Guardian blogs in the week , keep my screen time low , will be in some of the smaller blogs . Back in March .

  66. DerekTheSheep

    [Shanne @18: I was prompted to re-read The Once and Future King recently by a piece about it in Slightly Foxed. Splendid stuff. The Sword in the Stone is a lovely, nostalgic, fun read, but this time round I think I’d give the palm to The Ill-made Knight; an age thing, I guess. I think I knew of JESSES from my first reading, many decades ago. ]

  67. AlanC

    [Roz @65: indeed I did. See you in March].

  68. Dr. WhatsOn

    It’s interesting how we’re all different – ALLYL was my FOI (and I’m not a chemist). Nice 28a.

  69. Valentine

    Pleasant puzzle. Got most of the top half and little of the bottom half last night, filled it in over breakfast with the help of the check button.

    Etu@3 and gladys@4 — my cat is very musical. She chirrups a lot as she approaches to have her chin scratched.

    Thanks, Serenos and scchua.

  70. Simon S

    TS @ 60 I see where you are coming from, but if you see ‘sourdough’ you automatically think ‘bread’, but if you see ‘bread’ you don’t automatically think ‘sourdough’, could be any of the others you mention.

  71. Scotblok

    Martin D @61
    My wife is my inamorata
    I am her inamorato.
    Rather sweet!

  72. Frogman

    Why is it that to be good at cryptic crosswords you have to know about

    1- cricket
    2- golf
    3- bridge
    4- chess

    and

    5- nursery rhymes

    ???

  73. Moraysinger

    I liked 1d and 3d but otherwise found this pretty unsatisfying. Several unparsed so thanks to scchua.

  74. muffin

    Frogman @72
    Not sure about your 5, but an interest in 1, 2, 3, and 4 seems consistent with an interest in crossword puzzles. It does in my case, anyway!

  75. Tony Santucci

    Simon @70: I’ve seen sourdough pizza, crackers, scones, pretzels, and muffins but I guess they’re all under the bread umbrella so I concede the point.
    Frogman @72: Add to your list —
    6- Greek characters
    7- British rivers
    8- London neighbourhoods
    9- American state abbreviations
    10- Every plant and animal, current or
    extinct

  76. dnr16

    I was very puzzled by 1d as I can’t find a dictionary which defines Damascene in that way – every definition I find is either “pertaining or native to Damascus” or to do with decorative metalwork.
    I understand the reference to Paul’s conversion – I’ve just never come across that use of this word.

  77. Etu

    dnr 78,

    I think that the definition works like this: putting the word DAMASCENE in front of “conversion”, or transformation makes it sudden?

    I’m forced to say that, or for me there isn’t really a definition.

  78. DerekTheSheep

    dnr 16, Etu: a “Damascene conversion”, is one that happens unexpectedly, completely and instantly; the origin being Paul’s conversion to Christianity when on the road to Damascus. See wiki.

  79. paddymelon

    And to add to the lists by Frogman#72 and Tony Santucci#75, tennis, football/soccer, abbreviations for various military ranks, knowledge of the bible, opera, classical history and mythology, universities and schools. However lately there are now more terms from the sciences.

    muffin#74. I asked myself the same question that Frogman asked #72 when I first started out with British cryptics, but then I told myself that these are British cryptics, originally for a certain milieu. I think the challenge for the future of cryptics is that there is no longer such a shared culture. Setters are being more inventive with surfaces and humour with language, as the GK is no longer assumed. Increasingly there are more themed puzzles where you can pack a lot into one puzzle when it’s signposted. And you can take it or leave it. You probably know this already, but from University studies, the crack solvers are people from technology, sciences etc, expert in coding. I’m a linguist by training, no interest in sport. I just like to have fun with language.

  80. phitonelly

    dnr16 @76,
    That is odd that most of the dictionaries don’t mention that sense. But I did find a Wiktionary entry, via OneLook, as follows:
    “Adjective
    Damascene (comparative more Damascene, superlative most Damascene)
    2. Pertaining to a sudden and complete change in one’s beliefs.”

  81. Etu

    Thanks DTS, yes, I did know that, but my particular parsing was to make the logic of the clue work, which I thought didn’t otherwise.

    Either that, or DAMASCENE is simply an example of a type of conversion, and a sudden one. We do get solutions like that e.g. “peanut butter” for “sandwich”. Hmm.

  82. DerekTheSheep

    Etu@81 – ah, yes, I see what you mean now. It didn’t cause me any problems, but I can see why someone a bit more purist than me might baulk at the clue’s structure (no judgement implied in “purist”, BTW). The clue would maybe have worked better if “describing” had been used instead of “making”.

  83. Mig

    All solved, except for 22d JESSES (nho the leg straps, even though I’ve seen KES!). A lot of great clues, and very enjoyable

    Frogman@72 et al — rugby positions, islands, Cockney rhyming slang, Irish police forces

  84. DavidT

    NHO 1a, 4 or 12, but managed to work out what they must be from the wordplay/crossers. Does that make this a trijorate puzzle for me?

  85. Bazandcaz

    Very pleasing, not too tough. I also first learned JESSES from The Sword in the Stone (“the answer should be FEET”). I got ALLYL, nho for Baz; he got SRI, which I didn’t know was a form of address. Some enjoyable clues, especially INCUBATE, ROEBUCK, PASTIME, READ, and of course CROSSWORD PUZZLE was good to see. Thanks!

  86. Etu

    DTS 82,

    Indeed.

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