Guardian 26,946 / Philistine

77 comments on “Guardian 26,946 / Philistine”

1. Thanks Philistine and Eileen

   When DEBACLE and UNCTION were write-ins’ I wondered if there was a mistake in the setter’s name. I needn’t have worried, the rest was pure Philistine – hard, entertaining, with several questions and one or two quibbles.

   Slightly annoyed that I saw the “for T” in 2d and missed exactly the same trick in 3d! I also didn’t parse FRIGHTEN (to my credit?)

   Favourites were ORAL and STRATA.

   Quibbles:
   Although I got it easily enough, I don’t think 16a quite works, though I’m struggling to put my finger on the exact problem.

   I don’t see the function of “inside” in 24a.

   “upset” in 21 is doing double duty – as a direction indicator and also to give the TE of the solution. I’m not sure if this is very clever or unfair!

2. I’ve finally parsed 9D. “Essentially get out” = EU.

3. I withdraw Quibble 2 – EX “inside” “European” (is that still correct?). Sorry, Eileen – didn’t read the blog carefully enough.

4. Thank you Eileen and Philistine.

   Back from holiday so back in sequence with the crossword.

   Can’t help with 9d, looking forward to some views on it.

   Favourite was 28a.

   I felt I should know more Dido and Aeneas so thank you for the Virgil reference

5. Tom @2 that could well be correct, but I’m not totally convinced.

6. JennyAndCharles @5: yea, if the parsing is as I think, it’s a pretty unsatisfying clue.

7. Thanks to Philistine and Eileen. I had difficulty parsing both EAST END and AUDIT (so thanks for the explanation). I did get OSBORNE that led me to BREXIT and then to EUROPEAN UNION (though, like others, I could not parse it). An enjoyable challenge.

8. Oh, and I wasn’t impressed by “turns” as the anagram indicator in 11a.

   I think you have explained 9d, Tom.

9. Thank you, Eileen, nice to be back after a long break.

   Winced a little internally seeing Philistine’s nom de plume, not the ideal setter to get one back into the swing.

   Shouldn’t have worried though, all went in eventually.

   Thanks to Tom @2, well spotted, although it still feels a little clunky don’t you think?

   I don’t seem to share others’ concerns this morning but I am struggling a little with the part of speech in CHUMMINESS. My grammar leaves a lot to be desired but isn’t CHUMMINESS a noun? I would have thought being friendly was seeking a verb, or at least a gerund, no? No doubt someone will put me right.

   Delighted to have spotted the 2 similar ruses in AUDIT & EAST END. I normally miss these.

   Favourite was SOD’S LAW although we’ve seen it before in various guises.

   Many thanks, Philistine, nice week, all.

10. Thanks Philistine and Eileen: a really enjoyable puzzle.

    muffin @ 1: I think you can take 21 as another lift & separate: UP + “SET A TIMING” COMPONENT, with the first two words fused to give a smoother surface.

    WSH @ 9 I think you could quite plausibly say “His chumminess/being friendly began to grate” or similar.

11. William Smith-Haddon @9

    Welcome back! You’re right: ‘being friendly’ is a gerund, as well as a participial phrase, and a gerund is a verbal noun, so there’s no problem, as Simon S’s example shows, I think.

12. Simon S Thank you. Yes, that’s a good example of what I meant about a gerund. A bit clumsy though, I thought.

13. Simon @10
    Yes, that’s nice. Heated agreement!

14. muffin @1, 16a, the “an” is “exotic”, taken out of its place.

15. Eileen @11 Yes {I think} that’s what I meant but you’ll have to help me out with participial phrase I’m afraid.

16. Cookie @14
    Why does “exotic” mean “remove the letters”, though? I took it as just an anagram indicator for AN + LIEGE, but it doesn’t quite work for me.

17. muffin @16, “exotic” is from the Latin exoticus meaning outside.

18. Cookie et al re 16a. I did not read it this way. I thought it was simply “if you add (with) an to liege and make it exotic (anagrind), you can make lineage“.

    No?

19. Hi William @15

    As a participial phrase, ‘Being friendly’ would be adjectival, eg: ‘Being friendly, William soon settled in to the group’.

20. Hi William again [@18] – that’s what I meant to say in the blog. You’ve put it much more clearly – thanks.

21. William @18, yes, I am sure Eileen’s parsing is correct, but that was not how I solved the clue; my parsing is probably not logical since “an” is reversed in “lineage”.

22. Eileen @ Ah! Got it. Many thanks.

    Cookie @21 To my shame, I missed that in Eileen’s blog. My addition was superfluous.

23. Thanks Philistine, Eileen, Tom & SimonS.

    I agree that lift-and-separate up set gives a better parsing. Like Eileen, I’m a bit fed up with all the BREXIT nonsense, although that didn’t detract from an enjoyable solve.

    I liked LACKEYS among others.

24. Thank you Philistine and Eileen.

    I sailed through this, only held up for a while with jOUSTING…
    However, some of my parsing it seems was faulty or incomplete.

    EAST END and AUDIT were tricky, and I liked SOD’S LAW, ORAL, UNCTION, SEETHE and STRATA among many others.

25. It seems to me that “upset” is doing two jobs in 21d, both being part of “imitate” and indicating reversal.

    Haven’t we seen versions of Ind(ones)ia over and over?

    Thanks to Philistine and Eileen.

26. Valentine @25
    I said that @1, but Simon S @10 has resolved the problem for me.

27. I had the same problem as William Smith-Haddon@9 re. chumminess, so thanks for the explanation Simon S and Eileen.

28. I can’t say I enjoyed this as much as other Philstines. The surfaces were often tortuous and with too many words that to me seemed to be redundant. What is ‘shift’ doing in 17 across for example? I suppose it means shift out what goes between to get the solution, but hardly elegant. Unfortunate that this followed yesterday’s excellent Knut on the same theme. Thanks to Eileen and Philistine.

29. logophile @27

    I’ve just noticed we have a similar thing at 8dn: exclusion = OUSTING.

    Xjpotter @28

    As I said in the blog, there’s a double definition in 17ac: shift = STINT = period of work.

30. Obviously not the right answer, but thane jumped out of the 16 across clue.

31. Philistine is always inventive and entertaining, so I enjoyed this, but failed to see SODS LAW, annoyingly in retrospect since that was a fine clue. Thanks for parsing EAST END, which I should have seen, especially since its neighbour AUDIT used the same device.

    Thanks to Eileen and Philistine

32. Thanks Eileen and Philistine.

    Just a thought: I wonder if something went wrong in 9D EUROPEAN UNION. If BREXIT were at clue 27 rather than 24, the surface would say (along the lines of “Everyone’s out of step but our Johnny”) that the other 27 are leaving Britain in the EU – that would fit with the awkward plural ‘get’.

33. EUROPEAN UNION was so obviously right -having got BREXIT- that I hadn’t noticed that I wrote it in without parsing it.This happened with EAST END as well. The rest of it was Ok but it took me quite a while to see SODS LAW despite the rather good clue. Liked DEBACLE.
    Thanks Philistine.

34. “Unfortunate that this followed yesterday’s excellent Knut on the same theme” – Is this crossword from another paper?

    Re 9dn: As 24a contains the word “European”, perhaps this is something to do with the content of the words in clue 24a?

35. I do hope that we don’t get a glut of Brexit-themed crosswords. Picaroon did it fantastically well last week, and while it doesn’t have to be the last word, he set the bar fantastically high.

    That said, this puzzle revealed itself nicely, with SODS LAW being last. I thought though I was a man of the world but the parsing of FRIGHTEN passed me by. What fun it is to learn new words.

36. Eileen @27 — yes, I noticed that too but accepted it more readily than chumminess = being friendly. I suppose the familiarity of ousting as a gerund comes from the frequent newspaper articles talking about “x was annoyed by his/her ousting from y”. One of those words that is far more frequent in written English than spoken English.

37. We wereheld up by entering dramatic for 13a! Still think it’s a good answer.

38. I wasn’t able to parse STRATA (among quite a few others). It turns out … I don’t know how to spell stratagem. How humiliating!

39. I saw 26 ac as a charade of difficult = HARD, and delivery = LABOUR rather than as a dd.

40. yorkies @37, if atic or a tic had anything to do with time it might work.

41. Altogether an enjoyable ride despite, as the posts above make clear, some clumsiness perhaps.
    I did parse 9d straightaway and understand what Philistine is trying to say – the question is: does he?
    Similarly, I did not find 8d the best of the set – I know what he means but that’s about it.

    What many call ‘lift & separate’ clues [I don’t], well, you may expect them in a Philistine puzzle.
    I think the two in 2d and 3d are hardly in that category as you only have to add a space in the fodder to let it make sense.
    [unlike in 21d where ‘up’ becomes a device and ‘set’ becomes part of the fodder]

    Anyway, I don’t think 2d is a very good clue.
    While I saw what Philistine was aiming at, I hesitated filling in the answer because it could just as easily have been WEST END, looking at the clue and three of four crossers alone.
    It’s probably fun to play with words like this but if the surface doesn’t actually mean anything, I am not jumping for joy.

    The rest of the crossword was pretty conventional, I think, but well executed.
    I know that some purists do not like the use of ‘back’ in a down clue (LACKEYS, 4d) but I am not one of them.

    Many thanks for the blog Eileen (and Philistine, of course)!
    Just like Trailman I learned a new word today.
    And was it really a themed crossword with only 3 connected entries?
    [true, we could extend it with e.g. ‘debacle’ or ‘ousting’]
    The masterpieces of Knut and Philistine were pretty definitive, in my opinion.

42. Hang on, sidey @40, I’ll be with you in a tic.

43. @PaulW (34)

    XJPotter at 28 was referring (very kindly, for which many thanks) to my puzzle in yesterday’s online Independent (doable on the paper’s website, for free). There’s a blog of the puzzle by flashling if you want to visit the fifteensquared homepage.
    I think it’s fair to say that the themes aren’t the same.

44. Which makes me aware of the fact that my post 41 should have ended with:
    The masterpieces of Knut and Picaroon were pretty definitive, in my opinion.
    Grrr.

45. Lots of comments while I’ve been cooking!

    jeceris @39

    Sorry – I stick to my parsing: I have a number of friends who would say they had a HARD LABOUR – and they’re not talking about a court sentence!

    yorkies @37 [and sidey @40] – I started with DRAM, too, but, Simon S @42, it would have to be A TICK. 😉

    Sil @41

    As I think you know, I would use the term ‘lift and separate’ [and I like these clues] – coined, apparently, by Times champion solver Mark Goodliffe – not anyone here – but not for 2 and 3 and so I didn’t designate them as such. Yes, 2dn could have been WEST END but, as Pierre often says, that’s what crossers are for [and 1ac was pretty easy].

    I have to say at this point [since there was little comment all day, apart from muffin @1 and Trailman @35] that I was really startled at 23ac, which I solved in bed in the early hours, away from dictionaries. I really thought it was a taboo word and wondered how on earth I could include it in the blog and then found that it was [merely] ‘vulgar slang’ – and there was no other way of parsing it. I’m still surprised that there was not more reaction!

    I didn’t actually say this was a themed crossword [many thanks again to Knut @43 for his brilliant offering yesterday.] My comment in the blog referred to EUROPEAN COMMUNITY, which is a theme I’m still too sad to think about.

46. I enjoyed this, despite the same puzzlement as others about 9d. I’m embarrassed at not parsing 2d, despite figuring out the similar trick in 3d.

    I am unhappy with COCKTAIL = DRESS in 14a. Yes, there’s such a thing as a cocktail dress, but I’ve never heard anyone use “cocktail” alone to refer to the dress, and I don’t see support for it in the dictionaries I have at hand.

    There’s such a thing as a salad fork, but you couldn’t use SALAD to clue FORK, could you? Could you use LIBRARY to clue BOOK? etc.

    Thanks to Philistine and Eileen!

47. Ted @46
    It’s not just “cocktail”, it’s “cocktail, may be” (as Eileen implies), and a dress may be a cocktail dress?

48. Ted @46

    It’s not ‘cocktail’ but ‘cocktail, may be’ – definition by example, which is legit and by no means uncommon.

49. Wow sorry Muffin, we crossed! Either that or thought transference.

50. Trailamn
    I was just going to say that!

51. I’m unconvinced. A cocktail is not an example of a dress, so this is not a definition-by-example. Would you accept “salad, maybe” as a clue for FORK? How about “library, maybe” as a clue for BOOK?

52. No, because salad isn’t a type of fork and library isn’t a type of book. But cocktail is a type of dress.

53. Sorry to be thick, but I don’t see the distinction. “Salad fork” = “fork to be used for salads”. “Cocktail dress” = “Dress to be worn at cocktail parties.” In both cases, you have an attributive noun used to modify another noun. If it’s true that a cocktail is a type of dress, then a salad is a type of fork.

    If anyone actually says “she was wearing a nice cocktail”, then I withdraw my objection. That doesn’t sound like English to me, and I can’t find dictionary support for it.

54. I’m still stumped by EAST END! Though I do understand AUDI-T. Any further clarification would be much appreciated!

55. I tend with Ted. A cocktail dress is a type of dress. A cocktail is a mixed drink. Just as a library book is a book, but a library is not a book, as Trailman @52 so rightly says.

56. @matrixmania

    in the wordplay for EAST END, “clue fort” is required to be split into “clue for t”. The end of EAST is t. As it is for west, but never mind.

    @Ted

    I have been known to sport a lounge suit. If I saw “lounge, may be”, I’d struggle to come up with “suit”

57. Enjoyed this, a good range of clever clues. Why is “several” necessary in 22d?

58. Clue for T and T for clue, and no, no, Nanette.

    I mean, it’s not even clever when the two elements are collided to give ‘clue fort’. What on earth is a clue fort? Or should we ‘clue fort’ – cos we’re all compilers ent we – in a part of London?

    Bah.

59. Philistine really pushes me to my limit, or sometimes beyond, so I’m very pleased that I managed to complete this one without any help. My last two were LIEGE and SOD’S LAW. I think STINT was probably my favourite, but I got an enjoyable PDM from AUDIT.

    9d seemed odd to me too (though Tom @2 has now explained it), but having “European” in the cross-referenced clue still feels rather unsatisfactory.

    Thanks, Philistine and Eileen.

60. Eileen @45, I was apauled at 23a, and avoided parsing the answer; checking in my youngest son’s COED, 1995, I find that those words are included as “coarse slang” – I think such clues are best left au maître de ce genre…

61. Thanks both,

    I very much enjoyed this and, despite others’ quibbles, was happy with most of it. After the thoughtful parsings, the only one which still troubles me is 23. How does ‘frighten’ mean ‘drive out’? They are by no means synonymous. Am I missing something?

62. A lot a polite discussion above which appears to be trying to avoid the real fact.

    This was a surprisingly loosely clued puzzle from Picaroon. (I mean can we really accept “maxim” as a def for “sods law” or “cocktail” to indicate “dress”. Very poor and these aren’t the worst offences!

    We really need a crossword editor as the current incumbent is obviously still on his holliers! (How long is it now? Perhaps he’s doing the “Grand Tour”)

63. I wonder where BNTO is hollidaying – on the Spanish Main?

64. Thanks Eileen and Philistine.

    23ac I am surprised no one has raised “The good ship Venus”, till now.

65. Not Picaroon, BNTO! Pretty loose as you say though.

66. Thanks all
    Last in was lackeys.
    Favourites were 2 and 3 down, in spite of comments above I found these to be witty and not in the common rut, more please.

67. Quite funny to see BNTO confusing Philistine with Picaroon.
    I did the same thing.
    Perhaps, we still have something in common, despite his increasing negativity in recent posts?

    Agree, there were indeed a lot of polite discussions going about today.
    I do not think, however, that the ‘real fact’ is that this was a poor crossword.
    Yes, some clues were not that fantastic (to say the least) but, altogether, most of them were all right.
    One may disgree, but, whenever I can, I try to be on the setter’s side.

    Philistine was even kind enough to include your favourite word at 24ac.

68. Thanks all
    Last in was lackeys.
    Favourites were 2 and 3 down, in spite of comments above I found these to be witty and not in the common rut, more please

69. Enjoyed this whole experience although had to come here to see lots of the parsing, and then found the whole blog an entertaining read.

    The start of 23a FRIG and its clue SCREW, which may have once been considered a bit ribald, seem to me to have become fairly mild slang these days and often used as a substitute for the other F word. I loved Cookie’s reference to Paul’s occasional bit of smut in commenting on this clue and also the reference to The Good Ship Venus by Dave Ellison.

    Many thanks to Philistine and Eileen. I always appreciate your fair and considered blogs and comments, Eileen. My favourite was 26a as this crossword was HARD LABOUR for me (spent far too long solving 13a OPERATIC and 8d OUSTING – my LOsI). I understand the birthing reference, Eileen, but not the “End of term party” clue. Sorry to be so slow.

    Apologies for not numbering the comment references; as others have said these don’t come up on the blog if I access it on my phone.

    Having been drawn into reacting negatively to negativity about “The Guardian” cryptic crosswords once recently, I have promised myself not to engage and to skip over certain comments which I know will be tediously predictable in both tone and content.

70. I should have read Eileen’s blog more carefully. Now that I see that stint is doubly defined the clue goes from weak to strong. On the whole I’m very wary of criticising because more often than not all I do is reveal that I’ve missed something. And yet overall still don’t think this was at the top end. But still there was plenty to enjoy. I’m so grateful for the overall terrific quality. I agree that a bit more editing might not go amiss, and yet like there is always the fear of something worse.

71. Thanks Eileen and Philistine

    I solved but was unable to parse 13a, 23a, 2d, 3d

72. On invitations one could get – Dress : Cocktail.

73. I went to bed rather early last night and was surprised to find a dozen more comments in my inbox this morning.

    If anyone’s still there..

    Tyngewick @61 – I queried the definition of FRIGHTEN to myself, then found that Collins has ‘to drive or force to go [away, off, out, in, etc] by making afraid’ and that worked for me, so I decided not to comment.

    Julie in Australia @69 – The ‘end of term party’ is simply LABOUR. 😉

    Audrey @72 – I rather like that idea.

74. I think I am right in recalling that frig was used first as a euphemism so as to not frighten the horses, some of which are still grazing above.

75. I think I am right in recalling that frig was used first as a euphemism so as to not frighten the horses, some of which are still grazing above

76. Thanks Eileen and Philistine.

    Did this over a lot of short sittings so never managed to get a flow going.

    There are some great clues here, and some nicely misdirectional constructions, such as 2 & 3dn, and some nice double duty type clues such as 21dn and 24ac.

    But the overall impression was that it did not quite hang together as a whole. It may just be my disjointed approach because there’s nothing that I can put my finger on.

    And he beat me on SOD’S LAW!

77. Thanks Philistine and Eileen

    Did this on my last day of my Queensland ‘hollidays’ in a couple of short STINTS. Talking of which, the second definition completely passed me by !!

    Interestingly, going from the comments above, SOD’S LAW was a write-in and my first entry into the puzzle – maybe it was just the brilliant Queensland sun …

    Afraid that there were a couple of others that I didn’t properly parse as well – had BREXIT as some sort of cd and good to see the clever charade now and didn’t see the missing GEM bit of STRATA. I had a mini-OMG with the FRIGHTEN clue which turned into a wry smile as I realised that he had got away with pushing the boundary a bit – good to see not a lot of push back with it here as well.

    Finished all over the place with LIEGE (this clue device either jumps out at one … or becomes a bit of a task to find), OPERATIC (and hang my head for not recognising the opera itself) and STINT (that even with two definitions held me up for ages !)

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