Guardian 27,400 – Pan

103 comments on “Guardian 27,400 – Pan”

1. Hardly easy when we have ??? at 6down. Was this a cry for help?  Maybe Pan needed an AMANUENSIS (or two). The ? at 7across and ! in 9down also puzzled me.

2. I checked 6d on the pdf and on-line versions, where it was exactly the same. My thoughts were the same as yours, that the clue was to be filled in later. However, some on line comments seem to suggest that it is A MAN, YOU ‘N’ SIS, each question mark asking for a person? I am not convinced by this.

    

   Thanks Pan and Andrew

3. @Dave Ellison.. I’m convinced by it; it’s complete cobblers

4. Yes, pretty straightforward and what one expects on a Monday morning, with the exception of 6d.

   But 6d is surely completely unacceptable. No way of telling whether the required word is the singular or the plural. No attempt at wordplay of any kind – I am sure you are correct, that Pan left that one to fill in and forgot to do it before sending the grid off; and the Crossword Editor missed it before publishing. “???” (7) would be a conceivable, though not very good, clue for QUERIES, I suppose – but even if the ENSIS/ENSES ambiguity wasn’t there, “Oh well, given the checked letters only one word will fit” has never been regarded as satisfactory cluing, and it shouldn’t be now.

5. Thanks Pan and Andrew

   Yes, a very good Quiptic, apart from the weird 6d (I’m glad that I don’t seem to have missed a parsing). SPACE was my favourite.

6. All very straightforward apart from the aforementioned 6d – I was hoping there’d be more to it than a simple editing error. Pan seems a good fit for the Rufus slot.

   Thanks to Pan and Andrew

7. 15A.  It should be E in CRATE + D, I think.

8. Thanks, VDS Prasad, typo corrected.

9. Pretty poor form on the part of setter and editor re 6 dn. I’m with Neil H

10. Yes, even for me more Quiptic than cryptic, with 6 proving that we’re all human. Thanks Pan and Andrew.

11. Thanks Pan, Andrew

    That’s a fantastic new way to screw up.  Ever progressive, the Guardian.

    I’d like to know if it was Pan who meant to go back and finish it, or the editor who thought the original clue was iffy and inserted the ???.  I’d bet the latter.

    For 1d, I read in an extra ’round’, so put BOB round O for a ‘large shapeless mass’.

12. Excellent appraisal Andrew.

    I’ll just add that I liked the succinctness of many of the clues [esp 6d ha ha].

13. James @11. RE Id. I appreciate your appreciation of the gravity of the situation. 🙂

14. Not so worried about the mistake in 6D. It is the Grauniad, after all!

15. How about “North Asian muse maddened literary assistant”

16. I’m still open to the possibility that there is some brilliant cluing in 6d , but if not, am not bagging the Guardian or crossword Editor. The Guardian crosswords are generally of such a high standard. and they do have an Editor. In Australian daily papers, there’s only one good (still employed, and Australian)  setter. We have no crossword editors to my knowledge. While there are setters I prefer to others, I am eternally grateful for the daily fun and challenge of Guardian cryptics … as are my, husband, son, cat ……

17. Thanks for blogging, Andrew.

    A straightforward puzzle to start the week and one for those newish to the dark arts.  I’ll be specially recommending this one to a couple of friends who are getting into such things.  Once the error has been corrected, of course.  The Grauniad has form here: have a look at this Fifteensquared blog from almost exactly seven years ago.

    If you read between the lines of what the then (and still current) crossword editor said in response at the time, you might come to the conclusion that this puzzle was intended initially for the Quiptic slot.  That’s not a reason not to publish it here, of course: a cryptic’s a cryptic.  It’s just that they’re a lot more fun when all the clues are included.

    Thanks to Pan too.

18. I’d say that this is far easier than today’s Quiptic, since even without the clue 6d was a write-in from the crossers.

19. Thanks for the blog and introduction Andrew, to Pan for the puzzle and the editor for providing a talking point. Whilst we did rattle through it we did enjoy it as everything (with the obvious exception) was clearly clued. In a couple of places I found myself trying to be too clever. For example 10a was my second to last in as I tried to work C & N around a synonym for post with office as the definition! My favourites today were FINESSE and BEHEMOTH.

20. Thanks for the link to 7years ago Kathryn’s dad – it’s an interesting read, especially Hugh’s comment. If it is still the case, it does offer context if not an altogether satisfactory explanation. Crosswords are a pastime after all and maybe not worth investing to much energy in getting exercised about.

21. Thanks to Pan and Andrew.

    Enjoyed it – despite being stumped by 6d – and I’d like to support what paddymelon@16 said in terms of gratitude for The Guardian cryptics. Not worth getting steamed up about an occasional error.

22. [Still worth every cent and more I pay to subscribe, and I get to read many good articles online as well! The print press in Australia is appalling, but Guardian Australia keeps me well informed.]

23. At 6d I went for the plural on the basis of there being three question marks and not one. Not that one ? signals an AMANUENSIS but it’s better to have insufficient logic than none at all. A shame for Pan who doesn’t (yet) get many appearances on the big stage.

24. Thanks to Pan and Andrew. Like others I found this straightforward with the exception of 6d which I got from the letters but obviously could not parse. Liked some of the clues which others have mentioned and nice to see the old chestnut of pils still used. Seen this one a few times in a number of crosswords.

25. I am not convinced that 6d is an error. Rather it may be an attempt at “gegs 9,4” type clue that has clearly fallen flat. The oed definition of amanuensis is

    “A literary or artistic assistant, in particular one who takes dictation or copies manuscripts”

    which would seem to allow enough room for an assistant, perhaps intended to be the solver, to provide the clue. See Frankie the cat @15. BTW this interpretation would mean it is the singular.

26. Just back from my bike ride which always allows thoughts to emerge. Being a crossword editor is a thankless task. In the year or so I’ve been active here I can’t recall any of us saying “well done Hugh for correcting that mistake or amending that ambiguous clue that didn’t appear when it was published”. Whilst it might be in the nature of the job it’s still a person who is doing it and it can’t be much fun if all you ever get are brickbats, so I’m with paddymelon, JinA et al who appreciate what we get and accept that human beings occasionally make mistakes – it’s one of the ways we learn.

27. Thank you Pan and Andrew.

    I really enjoyed this puzzle since I am a slow solver.  Like Mr Paddington Bear @25, I wondered if the clue for 6d was meant to be provided by the solver, the answer to 10a, EXTEMPORE, giving a hint…

28. I am a first time writer here (though have been a reader for about 3 or 4 years) and crossword attempter for many.
    I enjoyed this and was very pleased to complete it putting in amanuensis last.
    I do not do the quiptic – I have the printed copy only – so I very much hope Monday does stay accessible to those of us less skilled – some midweek ones I often only get 4 or 5 answers.
    While I write comments from ‘fast solvers’ along the lines of ‘rattled this off over coffee’ are very demotivating for us (the majority I suspect) less skilled.

29. Thanks to Pan and Andrew, upon whose perspicacity I was relying for 6d – so somewhat relieved to find it confounded everyone.

    Apart from that an acceptably gentle Monday offering, with a range of clue types for the novice’s education and I liked STATIC and SPACE.  It was nice to see old chestnuts such as ERSE (existence confined to crosswords in my experience) and DAB – which gives me the chance to trot out my old joke about being “not much of a cook, but I’m a dab hand at fish fingers” which I always hope cruciverbalists will enjoy, but I think nobody does.

30. Also new here, and agree about keeping Mondays accessible for those of us still relatively new to the art and who struggle with the more challenging grids.  Clearly, I reserve the right to change my view should I ever reach the required level of competence.

    Amanuensis is a new word to me, so no number of crossers would have helped.

    Anyone else have hippo ([a s]*hoppi[ng]) for nine across?  I was quite pleased with it, until it clearly didn’t fit with any of the down clues, but on reflection I suppose the clue would only have got you to ippoh, which it turns out is a Tempura restaurant in Hong Kong.

    I do find this site hugely helpful, so many thanks to everyone who takes the time to blog and comment.

31. A bit easy but that’s OK on Mondays. A few too many 4/5 letter answers maybe made it simple.

32. Btw Wynn@25, welcome – if I may, as a recent enough arrival here, make so bold.  Since you have to be online to access “225” you should consider treating yourself to some online solving, using the reveal button as necessary; when you get to the point where you feel you should have got the answer without help you can ease back a bit.  It’s a way to learn quickly, especially about your own blind spots.  I have a blind spot about anteaters, but since I can never remember which setter it is that always drags them in???

33. And welcome also to notareallawyer@30.  I’d hazard that you’re one of the few who spotted the hippo in the shopping centre.  But if you squint in a certain way, there she is???

34. At last, another three-letter fish!

    8d typo in the commentary, should be “second,” not “send.”  10a, “extreme” needs an asterisk.

    Buckwheat groats, a main ingredient of kasha, is a delicious cooked cereal.

     

35. Anyone want to play the game of guessing what the corrected clue will ultimately be?

     

    Literary helper’s sister goes after space behind a football club?

36. On my own today. Bev is out shopping. I found this one pretty straightforward with the obvious exception. I, for one, hope Pan gets the Monday job on a regular basis as I enjoy an easy start to the week.

37. An enormous goof.

38. Re 6d clue: Stupidly misuse Nana as assistant?

39. Thanks to Pan and Andrew. Nothing to add to the discussion. When Chifonie appeared on the first post-Rufus Monday, I guessed that Orlando and Pan might follow. Let’s see what happens.

40. @alphalpha

     

    Puck is yerman for anteaters.

    Regarding the Monday crossword, I think the idea of having an entry level puzzle is a good one. Personally, I don’t mind how easy or hard a puzzle is as long as it is well written.

    I’d vote for Nutmeg and Colin G (Everyman setter) personally, both of whom can play every club in the bag impeccably. My new year’s resolution is to swear out loud every time I read a post expressing nostalgia for Rufus..that ship has sailed

41. I left 6dn until last because I thought something clever might be going on but came to the conclusion that there wasn’t- especially as the rest of the puzzle was so easy!
    I’d like to be charitable but this is a cock up too far!

42. One questionable clue (will Pan be panned for this??? Don’t panic, Pan).  Otherwise fair and straightforward, and a useful practice session for newer solvers, although without the wit of many of Rufus’s Monday clues.

43. baerchen @40

    When I posted @42, I hadn’t read your new year’s resolution describing how you intend to react to posters rueing the absence of Rufus.  Rueful apologies if I have caused a rude outburst, truthfully.

44. The Guardian’s ability to f** up the crossword is now legendary.  I feel sad for Pan as most likely it is the editor who has screwed up but Pan who ends up with egg on his face.

    I would be lovely to find that ??? is a brilliant clue whose explanation is yet to be revealed.  I live in hope.

45. I wondered without much conviction whether a question mark might be thought of as a ‘literary assistant’ since its function is to help us understand a written sentence.

46. Late to the party with little to add.  I did this puzzle last night (Chicago time). How’s this snappy &lit I just came up with?

    A servant at college, starting to edit, corrects sins (9)

    As for easy Monday, I love it, not just because it’s good for newer solvers, but also because clue difficulty doesn’t matter to me; clue cleverness is the ticket.  Who cares whether a set of clues that made you smile was easily solved?

47. Or probably “at university” is better and clearer–my American English is showing through.

48. I’m with all those who are tolerant of the typos and other types of error that creep into Guardian cryptics from time to time.  We used to see cries of “where’s the editor?” quite a lot, but as well as making the obvious point that setters themselves have their own responsibility to submit a clean and complete product to the editor I’d like to ask (provocatively, perhaps) “where’s the test solver?”

    I know from my limited amateur experience as a setter that a test solver can be invaluable as a judge of the ‘solving quality’ of a crossword (in regard to both the individual clues and, just as important, the pitch of the puzzle) as well as being there to find enumeration and spelling errors and the like.  Many professional setters may be good proofreaders and good judges of the solving quality of their end-product, and therefore do not ‘need’ a test solver, but I’m sure a few are not.  I know informally that certain setters do use test solvers, and as it happens I typically admire their creations as well as their professionalism!

    I too came up with an attempt at a clue for AMANUENSIS, but having seen others’ efforts I can’t bear to show mine now! I hope nobody minds if I say I liked the &littish one by mrpenney (@46/47) the best, just shading the others – and I think ‘college’ is fine.

49. A neum Sian’s confused in Sussmayr’s work

50. A shame for Pan indeed. There will be a Guardian editor that turns up one day I hope!

    Nonetheless I’m thinking this is too easy, esp where the Quiptic (horrible today IMO as it is) is harder. That’s got to be the wrong way around. The Quiptic is for the learner and noob, the puzzle proper is for proper solvers.

    Do you agree?

51. Or perhaps,
    A neum Sian’s mistaken in Sussmayr’s work (10)

52. My new year’s resolution is to scream out loud every time someone makes a patronising comment to the effect that Monday is a generous concession made by the elite for beginners who aspire to join their number. What’s wrong with a nice approachable crossword for those without much time on their hands? I have been doing the Guardian crossword for more than 30 years now, and I have got more enjoyment from every Ru*us I have attempted than any Enigmatist. The balance of the correspondences the Guardian occasionally publishes on the subject suggests that this is not an uncommon view.

    I need to go and do some work now so that I can be free for Channel 4 News and Newsnight to see how they cover the missing clue calamity. Hopefully they will not be distracted by the Cabinet reshuffle.

53. Thanks Andrew for pointing out that “easy Monday” is a thing,I thought I was doing ok nearly completing the bottom half until I put glade instead of space and hippo instead of llama. Still felt rather smug though that I managed to get the like of sperm whale and competent. Getting better.

54. Here’s my idea for the missing clue:

    Secretary is after response, hugging Spanish waiter without end.

     

55. Actually, 6d was a write-in for me — my FOI.

    Ha ha!  Glad to be here.  I expect it has been roughly three weeks since I managed to get to 15^2.  So glad to have come back on a day when “???” is the clue for  AMANUENSIS.  Rather like going with “What have I got in my pocket?” when playing a game of riddles.

    I enjoy the human element.  Pan and the crossword editor have inadvertently made this a more memorable Monday puzzle than it would have been otherwise.

    I also enjoyed the several alternative definitions for AMANUENSIS proposed by other commenters above.

    Anyway, hope this is the beginning of a great new week for puzzles.  Many thanks to Pan, Andrew, and the other commenters.

    P.S.  Whole oat GROATS, sweet or savory — there’s some good eatin’!

56. Had even tried to use the Marks of question marks to work out something about Marks & Spencer’s e.g. emandesses! But gave it up!

57. paddymelon @1

    “The ? at 7across and ! in 9down also puzzled me…”

    Puzzled me too.

    Couldn’t find either of them.

     

     

     

58. An editorial clarification would have been welcome for 6.  Perhaps the new Monday paradigm is a puzzle and cluing competition rolled into one.  If so…

    PA with a mean sinus problem (10)

    Assistant regularly seen pairing a football team with agents (10).

    A belated Happy New Year, all.

    Thanks, S&B.

59. I was about to say, v. annoying having a DNF on a Monday, even post-Rufus!

    But then I see that there’s an almighty rumpus about the “???” anyway.  Like most others, I pencilled in AMANUENSI[e]S anyway, as the only word that’ll fit.  So perhaps it was a ‘did finish’ job after all!

    I read somewhere about a Times puzzle, years back, in which one clue consisted of nothing but the enumeration: i.e. “(7)”.  The required answer was MISSING.  Maybe the Times fraternity would allow that one, I have a feeling we of the Grauniad persuasion would utter howls of anguish!

    Anyway – I’m sure others will agree, some sort of explanation should be forthcoming.  I don’t see any sign of Pan having checked in here, yet.  Time to look at the Grauniad’s own comments column.

    Thanks Pan (in advance???) and Andrew.

60. Re. the missing clue at 6d, I’m sure there have been occasions in the past when something very similar has appeared and has turned out to be a perfectly good clue. Sadly I can’t remember an actual example so I won’t pursue it.  However it did set me to thinking “What’s the shortest/most succinct valid clue you’ve seen ?”   In my case that would have to be R3 (9)  –  but that one was in the Times, not in the Grauniad….

61. I have a recollection that in the last few months I’ve seen somewhere a published clue that read something like “replacement clue needed here”. Can’t place it, though.

62. I think there was a clue once, somewhere, in a puzzle I tackled years ago, which ran:

    “X (10)”

    The solution was OSCULATION (cryptic def. I suppose).  I can’t remember whether I solved it.

63. With regards to 6d, now all you experts know how us beginners feel! I thought it was a proper cryptic clue just like the rest of them. That I had no idea what it meant is neither here nor there.
    Got about 75% of the way there. The 4 letter answers were the hardest.

64. JohnB

    That clue “R3 (9)” (which I can’t solve, by the way) reminds me of a clue, by Brendan I believe, which goes

    “The third letter after Q” (10)

    which I was pleased to get bearing in mind I’m not particularly good at cold solving.

65. I confess my first reaction to 6d was “The Brits have assigned a totally new meaning to a word and neglected to tell the rest of the world.”  My apologies for the slur.

66. I’m no expert, and quite capable of being stumped by a Monday grid, but I’m inclined to suspect that the ??? at 6d is deliberate. I can’t make any logical sense of it, but I always use the online edition and I’ve seen plenty of Guardian “Special instructions: the clue at X has been amended/corrected” in the year or so I’ve been doing them regularly. If ??? was an error by either the setter or editor, I find it hard to believe it’s not been corrected on the online version during the day.

67. “Secretary to collect bags: 1/9 (up in Hamburg) (10)”

68. John B
    I don’t think I’ll find it in Chambers, but could it refer to the third of the basic skills?

69. Like others, I’m a first time contributor here. I took the three question marks at 6d to refer to the ‘help’ marks in the top corner of Word documents, i.e. literary assistants or amanuenses.

70. I’m with Tupu @45 on 6D: it works as a cryptic for AMANUENSES if each ? refers to a helper in literature (or more correctly in punctuation). Not a great clue, and out of character with the difficulty level throughout, but valid. (Now fully expecting to look foolish as a correction gets posted online.)

71. Re 6D.  Probably far too obscure, but the question of question marks goes back for some to amanuensis:

    • The Last Word may have strayed out of its depth in investigating the question mark, for we discover there are two views of its origin. The first is given in many books of general knowledge, but the second “rising pitch” theory appears more attractive. And to support it, we found pictures of two question marks from 9th and 12th-century manuscripts at www.medievalwriting.50megs.com/scripts/punctuation/punctuation2.htm. Further expert opinion is welcome – Ed

    • During the Middle Ages, the amanuensis would denote a question by writing a little “q”, the first letter of questio, Latin for “question”. That q, down the centuries, gradually became a “?”.

72. meaning “Whence question marks?” is a reasonable reading of three in a row to give amanuensis.

73. Another theory for 6d:

     

    If amanuensis = a literary or artistic assistant, in particular one who takes dictation or copies manuscripts.

    (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=AMANUENSES)

     

    Could the clue number be significant? Six being the homophone (indicated by the first question mark) of the plural (indicated by 2 more question marks) of sic…

    Sic inserted after a quoted word or passage indicates that the quoted matter has been transcribed exactly as found in the source text

    (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sic)

     

    …could be considered a literary assistant (at a stretch, given the definition refers to a person not a device)

     

     

    That doesn’t fit with the overall difficulty of the rest of the puzzle though it makes some kind of sense (to me at least!)

74. Van Winkle @ 52 – great post.  I agree with everything you say, and your use of humour to make a very good point at the end.  I also agree with Whiteking, Paddymelon et al.

    For fellow new solvers, I’ve never regretted my purchase of the Chambers Crossword Dictionary on my phone – it’s my most used ap.  It often helps to solve tricky clues so you can save the reveal button for the really hard ones.

75. Maybe 6D is just meaning “you write the clue in for me” or in other words “be my amanuensis”?

76. thank you Pan and Andrew

    I was baffled by ‘amanuensis’ and now see it was an error.

    My favourite was BLOB

77. MagE @69. I think you may have cracked it. The HELP button on most computer apps is ?, so the answer is AMANUENSES in the plural for the 3 question marks.

78. For what it’s worth, the iPad app says the correct answer is AMANEUNSIS. I’m going with the error hypothesis—the most plausible other theory is still quite a stretch and very much at odds with the rest of the puzzle in terms of difficulty.

79. This one will no doubt run and run – at least until setter and/or editor step in with a definitive ruling. Responding to John Carney @78: the solution in today’s (Tuesday) print version is also singular, AMANUENSIS (contra Crossbar @77 and others who ingeniously justify the plural as making sense). JC (and others) are surely right: the cluing of either singular or plural by ??? would be a ridiculous stretch within any crossword, let alone one at the friendly end of the spectrum like this one,

80. Although I susbscribe to the ‘error’ theory for 6D, I would just make the point concerning the alternative theory that two question marks are enough to give a plural answer (AMANUENSES), and the third question mark then would indicate a definition by example.

    I had just written the above when I saw quenbarrow’s post @79.  It seems, then, that answer was not plural after all.  As has been said many times, it is unfortunate that nobody in a position to know has come forth with an explanation.

    I thought the crossword was fine apart from 6D.  I liked 8D BEND, my LOI, and I also liked the clear and appropriate indications for subtractions (like SP for ‘swamp drained’) and for beginnings and endings of words (like H for ‘tail of largish’).  Some setters follow the fashion for making such indications as vague as they can (like ‘a bit of’ to indicate the first letter), but I’m not so keen on that sort of trick.

81. Re 6D.

    Someone on the blog under the on-line version stated the answer was obvious (that question mark = amanuensis – though the answer should be the plural form), but Wikipedia wasn’t a help and Google referred to a theological debate (question?) about whether St. Mark was amanuensis for St. Peter. So if the clue could read

    ?(mark)?(question)?(perhaps).

82. Contributors here have been helpful to Pan and possibly other setters by giving them an impressive choice of candidate clues for AMANUENSIS in a future crossword.

    I repeat all nine of them here, with names and comment numbers in brackets, plus one at the end from me that I was too shy to post earlier. (It is so late now that nobody will see this post anyway.) A couple have alternatives suggested by their authors.

    North Asian muse maddened literary assistant [Frankie the cat @15]
    Literary helper’s sister goes after space behind a football club [logophile @35]
    Stupidly misuse Nana as assistant [Horace Truck @38]
    A servant at college, starting to edit, corrects sins [mrpenney @46]
    (or with ‘university’ instead of ‘college’)
    A neum Sian’s confused in Sussmayr’s work [il principe dell oscurità @49]
    (or with ‘mistaken’ instead of ‘confused’)
    Secretary is after response, hugging Spanish waiter without end [drofle @54]
    PA with a mean sinus problem [phitonelly @58]
    Assistant regularly seen pairing a football team with agents [phitonelly @58]
    Secretary to collect bags: 1/9 (up in Hamburg) [Laccaria @67]
    Space in The Guardian with information held by a chap’s assisant [me]

    I must be mad to have gone to this trouble, but as an amateur clue-writer myself I really enjoyed that extra dimension to this day’s blog.

83. Thanks Alan B@82 for listing the candidate clues. I was rather proud of mine, but there were a lot of good ones.

84. As il principe dell’oscurità @68 surmised, R3 was/is indeed ARITHMETIC.  Boringly I now remember more detail – this clue appeared in one of the Times’ (in)famous “eliminator” puzzles in their annual crossword competition. Contestants could qualify for one of ?four? regional finals by correctly solving and submitting a fairly standard Times crossword as printed in the newspaper on a particular day, however this sometimes produced more qualifiers that the venue could accomodate and therefore qualifiers were asked to attempt a further “eliminator” puzzle to whittle down the numbers. This puzzle was much more difficult than usual both in clueing and in the obscurity of the many of the words which formed the solutions; the crossword editor of the period stated that this was the one occasion in the year when he was permitted to “get his horns out” !   Contestants were not necessarily expected to complete the puzzle and were exhorted to submit even partial solutions.   If all of that doesn’t merit the accolade of Today’s Useless Fact, I don’t know what does…..

85. Alan B @64

    You’ve got your revenge, I’m still struggling with ” The third letter after Q (10) ” !!

86. JohnB

    I thought of ARITHMETIC for R3, but seeing “R3 (9)” put me off.  ‘Arithmetic’ has 10 letters.

    “The third letter after Q (10)” is ARITHMETIC!  You have to deconstruct it as:

    The ‘letter after Q’ is R.
    The ‘third R’ is Arithmetic.

    I prefer that one to “R3”, even with the correction: “R3 (10)”.

87. drofle @83

    You are right to be proud of your effort!  Without any false modesty, I rate it better then mine.  Yours was posted after my earlier comment in which I highlighted mrpenney’s clue.  From my standpoint, I’d like to award, if I may, equal first to you and mrpenney!

     

88. Thanks Alan, I can now retire from clue-setting!

89. Alan B @86

    Aaaaaaaaaargh ! Enumeration error, or possibly I mis-remembered how the answer was actually written.  Profuse apologies, I will now “In retirement, some staff offering to go away (3,3)”  so to speak !!!!

90. Seeing as this is still somewhat alive and on review, I’m wondering if Philip@81 might not be on to something? I can’t (and couldn’t anyway) think of another question pertaining specifically to St Mark (the question being, per Philip, if he was amanuensis to St Peter) but if AMANUENSIS be the answer….

    ??? = Question Mark? and to indicate example: ?

    on the basis that this is not the only question relating to St Mark but is one you may have encountered.

    ???

    btw tvm baerchen@40: Puck it is, Puck indeed.

91. Enumeration error indeed!  Sounds like something the Grauniad might do.  No apology necessary, and I appreciated (and got) the clue finally offered.

92. Oh yes and Alan B@86 plus JohnB @89: R3 (9) might render ‘RITHMETIC, which has a perhaps notional 9 letters???

    Sorry, can’t stop doing it???

93. Alphalpha @90

    This all seems far-fetched to me, as I have thought all along that ‘???’ was simply an error, whatever anyone has said on the Guardian blog.  However, I did contrive a way of using Mark the amanuensis and ‘?’ the DBE [definition by example] indicator to get to the answer.

    ‘?’ is a question mark and therefore an example of a ‘mark’.
    Therefore ‘?’? could be read as “Question mark?” and be a clue for MARK.  Removing the quotes, you could write simply ??.
    Now, ‘Mark’ is an example of an amanuensis.  (In this case it is a possible example rather than an actual example, because we are referring to a theory rather than an established fact, but the ‘?’ can carry that meaning too.)
    Therefore ‘??’? could be read as “Mark?” and be a clue for AMANUENSIS.  Removing the quotes again, you could write simply ???.

    As I indicated, this is all somewhat contrived, as it takes the ‘definition by example’ device to a depth of 2, and I don’t find it either valid or elegant.

94. For the record, I meant to show that my comment @91 was in reply to JohnB @89.

95. Third letter after Q (10):
    Counsellor ?(QC)
    While I’m here, hats off to the 9 amateur setters. I loved the sneezing PA.
    Could I humbly plead the case for my surface. A neum (or neume) is a piece of musical notation and Mozart’s amanuensis was Sussmayr, who is the only one that readily comes to my mind, with the exception Eric Fenby (Delius).

96. il principe dell oscurità

    The answer to “Third letter after Q (10)” is ARITHMETIC – see my comment @86.

    As for the erudite clue (!) that you posted (much appreciated, by the way) I knew of Süssmayr and his role but I didn’t know ‘neum’.  I do like surfaces that sustain a theme once started, and yours was one that succeeded in doing that.  I can see why you said ‘work’ rather than ‘role’.

97. I’m sorry, but I couldn’t resist the urge to use Fenby, with the help of Argentininan pianist, Alberto Neuman.
    Is A. Neuman’s interpretation good for Delius’ Fenby ? (10)
    I promise I’ll shut up now.

98. il principe dell’oscurità @97

    That’s brilliant – better than your original.

    This has gone on too long, and this is my last too.

99. After a bit of prompting, I guessed the solution to “R3 (9)” to be ‘RITHMETIC – and this word does indeed boast an entry in Wiktionary (but not in Chambers). Seems good enough to me.

100. I see there’s a letter about 6dn in today’s paper, but still no explanation.

101. The 6d clue has now been added to the puzzle – it’s taken rather a while!

102. So it has.

103. The processed pine version apologised today 12/1 and provided what it should be: Scribe has last word about new university attended by relative (10).

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