Guardian Cryptic 27,431 by Tramp

54 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 27,431 by Tramp”

1. Nice puzzle. Favourites were ENSHRINE, IMPLACABILITY and ITALIAN. Couldn’t parse PRISON CAMP for some reason – thanks manehi, and Tramp of course.

2. Yes – unsure of some of my parsing here, manehi. So thanks to you for some confirmations and clarifications.
   This was hard work and quite a challenge. Thanks, Tramp, for stretching my brain.
   My favourite had to be 3d CHUNDER, made famous by one of our alternative national anthems “Down Under” by Men at Work, whose lyrics reinforce some unfortunate cultural stereotypes, viz: “I come from a land down under, where beer does flow and men chunder…”

3. Thanks Tramp and manehi

   OK, not particularly fun; LOIRE was my favourite.

   There were a couple of clues that exemplified types I don’t like. 1,18 I filled in from definition and crossers, expecting that there was an anagram somewhere but not bothering to work out what it was. Then “star in Hollywood, not hot” for (H)eston was very much “guess, then try to parse”.

   I did wonder whether TALIBAN could be singular. Wiki informs me that, though it’s strictly incorrect (it should be “talib”), it has been used.

4. A mild film theme? Dirty Harry, Clint Eastwood, WESTERN, Gran Torino, star in Hollywood – and even OVERDRAMATISING.

5. 1 am 100% convinced I have seen an almost identical clue for OVERDRAMATISING elsewhere – absolutely sure of it, though I can’t put my finger on it at the moment.

   Other than that, jolly Xword, and thanks to Tramp and Manehi

6. I’m not happy about ERA = important date – surely it’s a range of dates.

7. BTW: In 3d CHUNDER, Tramp has used the noun form – for what is vomited, while the song lyric uses the verb…

8. Coming in on Tuesday to refer to Monday’s. I know some wi?l frown but others write about gardening or doing the crossword in the crypt and at least this is about crosswords.
   Some commented yesterday about it being harder than many Monday’s. I, as a weak solver, agree and this is a plea to the Guardian and setters to PLEASE keep Monday accessible and doable by we weak solvers.

9. Like Manehi I was slow to parse some of these.  2dn was BIF’D.  I think I’d have been here until the warm weather parsing that one.

   Good to see ‘Loaf’ as a clue for head.  Having a father from Clerkenwell, rhyming slang was common place in our youth.  Mrs Paddington Bear (occasionally of this parish) ones told a school friend to ‘use her loaf’.  Said school friend looked at her as if from another planet.

10. Slow to solve and slow to parse.  One of those days I suppose.  Didn’t identify Charlton Heston as the ‘H’.  Didn’t he die some years ago?

11. That should say “once” of course

12. @6 Muffin.  I thought that as well but Chambers has a definition – ‘a distinct period in history marked by or beginning at an important event’ – so I suppose it’s ok.

13. [“Chunder on the wall-to-wall” was one of several similar phrases popularised by the Barry McKenzie strip in Private Eye magazine, written by a young Barry Humphries. Other ones included “technicolor yawn” and “calling for Hughie on the big white telephone”.]

14. After yesterday’s somewhat sour post, I’m delighted to be able to be more positive this morning.

    Julie @2:  I immediately thought of you when this was my FOI!  The Men At Work number was one of the first songs I worked up on the guitar.

    Ticks all over the place due to the smoothness of Tramps surfaces.  Particularly liked SAIL CLOSE TO THE WIND, FAIR, SKEDADDLING (always assumed it was skidaddling), ENSEMBLE, & AMATI.

    Loved the clever misdirection of tailless applying to ABOU(T) in MARABOU.

    Wasn’t aware that one could be a Taliban.  I assumed it was a noun relating to the group, not an individual. One learns something everyday.

    This setter is up there with the best IMHO.

    Many thanks, Tramp, nice week, all.

15. Muffin @3:  Apologies, missed the Talib part of your post before charging in.

16. I really liked this as i do Tramp.

    Doesnt CHUNDER come from WATCH UNDER on a shop warning people of seasick passengers on an upoer deck?I remember using it possibly before the magnificemt Bazza strip in the Eye.

    And BUSY is in Chambers as cop, so is BIZZY. The solution was obvious but I=it needed checking for me.

    Thanks to manehi and Tramp.

17. Is the first letter of a word printed horizontally really its ‘top’ letter?

18. I didn’t know busy for cop. And I’m not entirely convinced that sick(noun) =chunder=vomit(us).  I couldn’t find it in online dictionaries. Be sick, or sick up would be the verb. She stepped over the cat’s sick and the drunk’s chunder on the footpath. Possibly.

    And overdramatising is a bit OTT. But the crossword was a Goldilocks. Thanks to manehi and Tramp.

19. Going out soon, so was under pressure to finish early which I did, not that I found it easy – thankfully, something of a masterpiece in the art of the long anagram, SAIL CLOSE TO THE WIND up there with the best but several others too. Nice to see the theme spread around both clues and answers for a change, instead of one or the other – a sort of parallel to Eastwood’s double life as actor and director.

    A detective is a ‘busy’? Really? Is that in the Eastwood canon somewhere?

20. Thanks Tramp and manehi.

    I must say I’ve never heard of STREPTOBACILLUS, not surprising as it seems to be largely reserved for a bug that causes ‘rat-bite fever.’ It’s not in Chambers or the ODE, but is in Collins and Merriam-Webster.

    I couldn’t parse ‘the Hollywood star;’ I thought there must have been an ‘LA’ in there somewhere. I didn’t like the ‘merges with’ in 20. Surely, that means fuses/meets/unites etc. Perhaps ‘divides’ or some such would have been better.

    Enjoyable crossword; I particularly liked ENSEMBLE.

21. [I appreciated your contribution regarding the possible origin of CHUNDER, copmus@16. Perhaps not claimable with the Hills Hoist, the wine cask, the winged keel, the black box, wifi and the Victa mower as one of our inventions, then?

    However I was chuffed to be mentioned in dispatches, William@14, even though it was in relation to a song that portrayed us as yobbos. Still a great piece of music – such a catchy tune. I am pleased to report that in the song “women glow …and men chunder!”

    You probably know this, William, but sadly, that fantastic flute line in “Down Under” caused a lot of heartache for the band, as they had to go to court over it – the estate of the woman who wrote “Kookaburra Sits in the Old Gum Tree” claimed it was plagiarised and sued them. The saddest part is that the whole court fiasco plagued the band member (Greg Ham, who played the riff on the recording) so much, that his life went downhill, he succumbed to alcohol abuse and eventually died of a heart attack aged 58 in rather reduced circumstances. Dark side to such an upbeat song.

    Thanks for knowing all that “important” cultural history too, muffin@13. I thought of mentioning Barry Humphries too but I didn’t want to waffle on – “Chunder Down Under (In the Old Pacific Sea) was another stereotypical song about gross Aussie behaviour, though with no redeeming features as a piece of music. Sung raucously a lot at late night parties over here (I only know this anecdotally of course). The phrase “pavement pizza” also became part of our cultural lexicon at the time, though I don’t know if that was particularly/peculiarly Australian.]

22. ‘Use your loaf’ indeed was such common parlance, that as a child it was indeed odd to not be understood, Frankie the cat @ 9. I am with Muffin @ 6 regarding era. And I confess to using the crossword help (put in the letters you know and let the intelligent boffin who lives in my samsung tablet suggest answers) help me with skedaddle.

23. Julie@2 I have visited Sydney a couple of times, sadly for work rather than pleasure, the tipple of choice amongst those I worked with was wine rather than beer. In no small quantity so there was a remnant of the stereotype ?

24. I attempt the cryptic more or less daily and usually finish but hardly ever feel inspired to write something erudite on this blog. Nevertheless I am indebted to those who post regularly and today it was excellent reading, mainly from Julie in Australia, on the subject of vomit (or words to that effect) and other Australian cultural aspects, so many thanks, Julie, and also to Tramp and manehi.

25. Thanks Tramp and manehi

    Re CHUNDER, I first came across it on Private Eye’s Blue Record, an LP which came out in 1965. Among other gems there was Barrie McKenzie’s Chunder Song, with the chorus “If I could choose the spot / To bring up all mi lot / I’d chunder in the old Pacific sea”. Catchy, eh?

    I think it’s OK as a noun, I’ve certainly heard (anecdotally, of course) the phrase “go for a chunder”.

    JinA: love the phrase ‘pavement pizza’.

26. Julie @21:  What an astonishing story!  No, I didn’t know that.  Do you happen to know if the plagiarism suit was upheld or not?  Thanks for sharing.

27. Excellent crossword Tramp and flawless blog manehi. Trailman @19, round these parts (Liverpool) the police are known as ‘busies’.

28. Thanks to Tramp and manehi. My experience sounds very similar to some 17others. A somewhat slow but steady solve, but spent ages trying to work out parsings. I must have spent half an hour just trying to work out 6 (maybe because I wanted to put a z in it) and 8 down even though I had most of the crossers. That said an enjoyable solve with the aforementioned clues the last ones in. Thanks again to Tramp for the puzzle and to manehi for clarifying some parsings (was not sure about imbue and therapist).

29. Julie@21 I was digusted by the greed of the lawyers re Down Under-i didnt see the slightest similarity and I have had some experience of such. I believe it all originated from an ep of “Spics and Specs”, an Oz quiz show.

    Over to Charles Dickens-he had a word or three to say about lawyers.(Some of them are great tbough)

30. Thanks digbydavies @27, never been in trouble with the Liverpool police so that usage passed me by.

31. Many thanks to tramp and manehi – first finish since general anaesthetic on Friday so must be on the mend. I was convinced the important date in THERAPIST was 1st as in first date. Couldn’t see how era was a date until I checked chambers. I stand corrected

32. RODEO in the quick meant i got RODEO in the Cryp straight away

33. busy=cop?

34. [It was one of those ludicrous long-winded Jarndyce vs Jarndyce cases, William@26. The only people who benefited from the whole fiasco were the lawyers. All over a couple of seconds of flute. You are right, fellow Aussie copmus@29, it was all triggered by a fairly innocuous question on the quiz show “Spicks and Specks”. The estate (holders of the copyright) also tried to sue anyone who had reprinted the riff for recorder or flute : as in “Beginner Primary School Children learn to Play Flute/Recorder” music books.

    If you want to find out more, William, here is a link – not sure about how it will copy as I know this is a vexed problem on our forum and I have forgotten the directions to post links… however, if all else fails, just type in the subject line:

    http://www.noise11.com/news/greg-ham-death-related-to-kookaburra-hearing-20120422

    ]

     

35. I got about a third of this done last night, the rest this morning with little help from the CHECK button.

    Julie — I think of the Victorian dictum on word usage:  “Horses sweat, men perspire and ladies glow.”  No mention of chundering, but then the Victorians wouldn’t, would they?

    Julie @21 “Kookaburra sits in the old gum tree” is copyright?  What a thought.  I sang it in Girl Scouts as a kid, thought it was just a folk song, never thought that anybody had written it, thought it had just growed.  But then “Happy Birthday” over here is copyright.  You can sing it at parties all you want, but if you record it or include it in a film you have to pay lots of money to the author, or maybe to her estate.

    I don’t care what Chambers says, I agree with my fellow solvers that an era isn’t a date.

    I had PRISON CELL, thinking of a “cell” as a covert group.

    Years of reading British detective stories have nourished my store of criminal language, including rhyming slang and “busy” for “cop.”  But I’d never heard of CHUNDER and thought Hughie was in charge of rain down there.

     

36. Another in the slow to solve and parse camp. All of the long anagrams were pretty hard and some parsing ended up defeating me, including COOP for which I’d forgotten ‘busy’ as slang for the police. It was worth looking up after coming on to the blog to find the Wikipedia article on police-related slang terms – very entertaining.

    Yes, Chargehand@10, Charlton Heston is no longer with us, although he’ll be turning up in midday movies for many more years I expect. Something to look forward to.

    A big day for fans of the fiddle with AMATI here and ”strad’ (reversed) in the Indy.

    Thanks to Tramp and manehi.

37. responding to copland @32

    How pleasing, for you especially, to have 2 x RODEO on the same day, given your chosen name.

    I have not tried pasting in a link on this site before, but if this doesn’t work it’s easy to google (Aaron) Copland Rodeo and be led straight to info + you tube performance

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXikDnYZYpM

     

     

38. I enjoy Tramp puzzles more and more these days and I thought this one was very good.  Not too easy, but rewarding for those who like to unpick intricate parses.  Great use of the mini-theme in the clue surfaces – my favourite was the beautifully written one for INCORPORATING.  And I agree, the movie was fantastic.

    Like Valentine, I also had PRISON CELL at first which was resolved by OVERDRAMATISING.  I don’t remember seeing “away” as an anagrind before.  I was also unsure about “era” = “date”, but it is in Collins online, so no complaints.

    Great stuff.  Thanks, Tramp and manehi.

39. I don’t know why, but I always manage to overcomplicate things when solving Tramp’s puzzles – in retrospect everything here is fair, which makes it a fine puzzle, just one that I found rather difficult.

    Thanks to Tramp and manehi

40. Amazing. Tuesday easier than Monday. In fact I thought yesterday was a shocker for any day of the week.
    But today even after a first read through which yielded a single answer I felt certain it was going to reveal itself completely with no extraneous help.
    Most satisfying.
    In the lunch hour too.

41. Thanks to Tramp and manehi. Nothing much to add. I took a while before getting BRAIN (loaf-head) DEAD and ENSEMBLE (I missed the ENS and the emblem) and had to look up CHUNDER and the spelling of the “germ” after figuring out the”bacillus” part.

42. Was this another one of those somewhat unconvincing themes, or just ‘accidental’? I’m not too sure. But the main irritant for me was the inclusion of BRAIN DEATH, which seems to me to be on the borders, if not entirely outside the realms, of taste.

    Beyond that, rather bitty in places, but quite an enjoyable solve.

43. Hard to parse but the only one I left outstanding was IMBUE – I could see that this was the only word to fit, but the parse was a mystery.  I think what threw me was the ‘S in the second TRAMP’S.

    Probably the next-hardest to parse was ENSEMBLE, so I’ll give that top marks!  Took me ages to spot the trio – and me a bridge-player!  D’oh!

    COOP was a bit of a puzzler – I wrote it in and then looked up COP for alternative meanings – then looked up BUSY for alternative meanings.  Certainly never heard that word for a detective – do I need a better acquaintance with the underworld?

    Apart from these, all plain sailing (whether close to the wind or otherwise…).  Enjoyed the definition of LIP READER.

    Thanks to Tramp and Manehi.

44. PS.  I recalled CHUNDER from the Barry Mackenzie films.  Shows what it is to have a good education! 🙂

45. I thought this was easier than yesterday’s puzzle and rather more enjoyable. I did find some of the parsing difficult though- the CAMP part in 14 ac and FAIR for example- but this didn’t detract from my enjoyment. I suppose I should confess that with 1ac 18down and 8 down I didn’t bother to check the anagram as the answer was, I thought, obvious!
    Thanks Tramp.

46. Technically incorrect in 4 down as county councils do not have wards, they do indeed have divisions. So as a retired county councillor I was thrown by the clue until I had all the crossers. In the current environment, divisions may not be split into wards of a lower level council either.

47. Very enjoyable. Thought LIP READER especially was brilliant.

48. I believe the “star in Hollywood” threw a lot of people because Charleton Heston wasn’t a star. He was a nasty, old bigot who wanted to make sure there were plenty of guns for poor, persecuted white hetero men.

49. I know it’s a digression on top of a digression, but I thought I’d mention that Valentine @35’s information on the song Happy Birthday is just a bit out of date. A US federal court ruled in 2016 the claim to copyright claim was invalid. The song was also under copyright in the EU until January 1, 2017, but as of now it doesn’t appear to be under copyright protection anywhere.

    I suppose I should say something about the actual puzzle while I’m here. I managed to get very few answers on my first pass through the clues, hut once a couple of the long ones fell, the pace picked up, and I even successfully parsed everything, except that I didn’t know that “busy” could mean “detective”.

    “Taliban” is used to refer to individuals from time to time here in the US, mostly when a US citizen was captured in Afghanistan and referred to as “the American Taliban”, but it still sounds wrong to me.

    Thanks to Tramp and manehi!

50. Re Julie’s ‘pavement pizza ‘ In Liverpool we called them docker’s omelettes and the police as bizzys.

51. Edit. Delete the ‘as’. Sorry it is quite late.

52. There have been times in my life when I’ve had to vamoose. But given my druthers, I’ve always preferred skedaddling.
    And while, in most instances, I am fond of neither streptobaccilus nor chunder, I found them both highly enjoyable today.
    Many thanks to Tramp and manehi and the other commenters.

53. Thanks, all. A day late post despite my ongoing check button addiction! Everything else has been mentioned, I think.

54. I really enjoyed this one, getting all the right answers, but not all the parsing, which is nice — it’s good to learn something. Had never heard of busy as a detective. We + stern was brilliant. Even staring the answer in the face I was still going, er, doh? Ditto with emble…. Amazing what cognitive tricks the mind plays when the answer is in clear sight! Thanks, Tramp. Re having an easy xword on Mondays, I’m OK with that, but, eg, didn’t find much pleasure in this week’s Orlando. Rufus was so much funnier.

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