Guardian Prize 27,489 / Paul

37 comments on “Guardian Prize 27,489 / Paul”

1. Since when is June the middle of summer?

2. The enumeration error made this a bit of a struggle for me and when I did eventually realise, it was hard not to feel cheated. At least I was able to warn my mum.

3. Many thanks Eileen. I was generally happy with this. Even the mis-numbering didn’t detain me long, as it couldn’t have been anything else. For 16 – “as a fiddle is” is OK as a definition for STRUNG: a fiddle (ie a violin) is fitted with strings (ie strung).

4. (Sorry Eileen, I realise now, your problem was with the surface, but again I thought it did sort of make sense!)

5. Thanks, Eileen, for your comprehensive and interesting solve – and for linking me back to Bob Marley’s “Don’t worry, be happy” advice. And thank you to Paul for some delightful clues which I enjoyed solving. These were 5a MAOIST, 10a CHERUBIM, 17a DREADLOCKS (my favourite), 13a GRAVEDIGGER (my second favourite), 24a GARISH and 8d SCREWDRIVER.

   Couldn’t quite see 3d UNDERDOG as an “outsider”, but on checking, I see that Collins has it as a synonym in the Thesaurus*.  Re 22a JULIENNE, I have seen “JULIENNEd” but think it was an adjective, as in “Scatter the julienned carrots over the top of the salad” – although maybe it is used in recipes that say “Julienne the carrots”.  [BTW, just curious, Frank@1 et.al., what month would be considered the middle of summer in the UK?] 16d STRUNG did read a bit strangely, I agree, but I made enough sense of it to solve it.

   LOI was the song title from Cole Porter. As it was a Prize puzzle I emailed the editor Hugh Stephenson to alert him to the error, however I didn’t receive a reply, and did not go back online to see the correction down the track.

   [*I have been waiting for the opportunity to drop in a reference to Chambers – have just this week bought the online bundle of the Dictionary and Thesaurus… So I now feel I will be a force to be reckoned with!!!! in crosswordland, as I am now armed with what some of you fondly refer to as the BRB (mine is a BIG RED ICON, but never mind…)]

6. [Sorry about my own error – pot and kettle!!! UNDERDOG/OUTSIDER was there when I consulted CHAMBERS, which I purchased after hearing both Chambers and Collins mentioned in many blogs before – I did toy with the idea of buying the Collins or the Oxford English Dictionary instead, but got some advice and decided on the Chambers…

   My poor old Australian Macquarie Dictionary and Thesaurus (both BIG GREEN BOOKS) are past their use by date I ‘m afraid…makes me sad as they have been around since the 90s and are old friends I used to consult very regularly.]

7. Thanks to Paul and Eileen. I did not find out about about the enumeration error until late in the week at which point everything fell into place. I did remember BIRD = prison sentence from a previous puzzle. Yes, some curious surfaces but enjoyable.

8. Thanks Eileen.  If the Cole Porter clue had been numbered right, it might have been FOI; as it was, it was the last.  The rest of it was FAQ for Paul, which means good.

9. Thanks Eileen and Paul.
   Needed parsing for ASCEND.

   No ticks and surface comment – I admire your restraint.

   I thought ringworm is on the skin… I’m not a dermatologist, of course.

10. Thanks Eileen. I was relieved when the correct word count was made known. I had spent a bad quarter of an hour or two last weekend staring uncomprehendingly at what appeared to be ICEBOX LOQUITUR(?) plus MOSAIC/MASTIC/MUSCLE/MYSTIC/MESCAL (etc) and wondering if someone had spiked my tea.

11. Re Frank@1: I took “In the middle of summer” to mean that LIEN is in the middle of the word “JUNE” (=summer), rather than supposing that June is the middle of summer. In England June is often the beginning and end of summer as far as the weather is concerned!

12. Ah  Eileen-the Dansette and Songs for Swinging Lovers-should have been (20, more than one word!)

    (drinks to Nelson Riddle)-thats musicianship!

     

    Thanks all.

13. Thanks to Paul and Eileen. I was obviously bemused by the mis-numbering, but enjoyed the puzzle overall. In many ways the error did not detract from the puzzle because the answer eventually became obvious. Last one mahout after getting it fixed in my head that it must be dacoit. However eventually the penny dropped. Particularly liked dreadlocks and gravedigger and thanks again to Paul and Eileen.

14. Stephen Briggs @11

    I think you’re probably right – in fact, I think that’s the way I read it when solving. On the other hand, Midsummer Day is June 24th. 😉

    Epeolater @10

    Thanks for the smile – I’m glad you were put out of your misery before too long.

    copmus @12 – yes, that idea has been suggested more than once, hasn’t it?

    I hope you had a good birthday celebration, PetHay.

15. One of Paul’s harder offerings.

    This was even harder on the Saturday when I struggled to make much progress.

    Luckily on Sunday I refreshed the online page and saw the correction for the letter count of 23,1,5down. Things went a little more smoothly from then on. This was in the end an enjoyable solve.

    The lack of proper checking of the puzzles and cluing is becoming a bit of a joke. Somebody must be reponsible and they are obviously not up to the job. However as this problem has been apparent for over a year now I doubt anything will happen in the near future.

    P.S. Frank @1 (as already pointed out ) 22A does not suggest that June is in the middle of Summer.

16. Despite overcoming the enumeration error whilst still having the will to carry on i eventually lost interest with 5 clues unsolved. This was because i had an unparsed BREAKDANCER for GRAVEDIGGER. I’m not sure I get the definition even now. Anyway that drove a coach and horses through several down clues which well I hadn’t got, along with GARISH and GOITRE both of which I feel I should have got. Even Mrs W couldn’t rescue us this time.
    It’s good to see that others found plenty to enjoy which helps me see what there is to appreciate in the puzzle. Thanks to Paul and especially to Eileen for filling in the gaps with a fine blog.

17. Whiteking @16 – I’m sorry if my aside on GRAVEDIGGER misled you: I read it as meaning that someone in a grave [gravedigger’s work] is there permanently. [I didn’t like it much. 😉 ]

18. Thanks for the Caruso link, Eileen. I enjoyed that! A very tango-y O Sole Mio with what sounded like castanets. A bit less Neapolitan than the Pavarotti/Three Tenors. 🙂

    I don’t remember much about this puzzle now, except that doing the paper version I was held up by the enumeration glitch until I chanced upon a (non-spoiler) comment somewhere and was able to forewarn Miss Crossbar.

    Thanks Paul & Eileen.

19. Thanks Paul for a great challenge and Eileen for explaining it so well.

    This one thoroughly defeated me, not helped by losing the paper soon after starting, but I’ve thoroughly enjoyed reading through the solutions and explanations here..

    I think the definition for GRAVEDIGGER is really excellent, also really like SCREWDRIVER, another of he many that eluded me.

    Thanks again Paul and Eileen

20. Eileen@17 – you didn’t mislead at all – I don’t think the clue really works but thank you for your additional explanation. As I’m very much in the libertarian school I can’t really complain just because I don’t get it when a setter takes liberties!

21. Frank: in the traditional agricultural year Summer was May (see the many May Day songs welcoming the Summer), June, July, then Autumn began with the August harvest time. Meterologically Summer is June, July, August, of course.

22. JIA @5. Just a small point. Marley’s Three little birds is a good record and has a hghly optimistic message but Dont worry,be happy was by Bobby McFerrin.
    To the puzzle. I thought this was rather a good puzzle but marred by the gremlins in IVE GOT YOU UNDER MY SKIN. I thought I knew Porter’s biggest numbers but his songbook is very large and I assumed this be one of his more obscure show tunes. It was somewhat later that the penny dropped.
    I liked DREADLOCKS and UNDERDOG.
    Thanks Paul

23. Having zipped through the Indie puzzle last Saturday, I thought I’d give this a try.  After what seemed like several hours of staring at the grid, I’d got just five answers.  I put it away thinking I might return to it later, but I never did (even after the correction was published.

    I see it was Paul yesterday, too, and I only managed to get five answers in that.  I don’t think I get this setter.  A pity, as my first name is Paul. 🙂

24. I enjoyed doing this over the course of Saturday whilst on a coach trip and was pleased to finish it before reaching home. LOI was 17d, MAHOUT. I knew this word but couldn’t call it to mind. Kept thinking ‘hanout’ which made no sense.

    Didn’t really understand the def in 13a, GRAVEDIGGER, although I got it from the wordplay, so thanks, Eileen, for explaining it. Looking at it again, I don’t think ‘into’ quite works: should be ‘in’ for the cryptic meaning. ‘Someone always into his work’ would have been better, imo.

    Using ‘miser’ in 12a, DREADLOCKS to misdirect to the wrong Marley was clever and fooled me for quite a while.

    I thought ‘red’ for ‘sore’ in 21 was not good as a synonym, thinking redness something that only often occurs with soreness, till I looked in the BRB and found Sore2=red. Since ‘soar’ is an alternative spelling in this meaning, ‘hear’ was unnecessary (though I might not have got it without that).

    @JinA, I think Collins is actually the first dictionary of reference for these crosswords, but Chambers is my preferred dictionary too. I believe words not in Collins must be in both Chambers stnd Oxford to qualify, though I may be thinking of a different newspaper.

25. *and Oxford*

26. Eileen@14. Thanks for the best wishes (and to well-wishers yesterday). We had a great night, but Michelin star restaurants do not come cheap, that said you get what you pay for and you only live once. Time to save up for next year ( I hope?).

27. Tony@24. Chambers always used to be the bible. As Alan B reminded me when the topic was raised a while back, some years ago special instructions would warn solvers when there was an answer that did not appear in it. Now setters seem to feel free to use a word if it appears in any of the main non-specialist dictionaries – Chambers, Collins, or COED.

28. PetHay@26: Very very late but even so all the best for your 70th “nachtraeglich” (=after the event) as the Germans say. I looked up the restaurant you went to and was bemused by the reference on one of the menus to the discretionary service charge of 12.5% being automatically added and the possibility of opting out of it… As I no longer live in the UK I am out of touch in this respect but as your celebration  was already rather expensive I guess an extra 12.5% is/was neither here nor there. Best wishes.

29. I thought this was fine (as I usually find, with Paul).  I cheated a bit with Cole Porter, knowing virtually nothing about him, looked up in Wiki, after which it wasn’t hard to write in (I only saw the online, enumeration-corrected, version of this puzzle).  I think that sort of ‘cheat’ is fairly venial, seeing as the clue required some GK….?  N.B. I didn’t have to cheat re Bob Marley – I know that much about him!

    Eileen – you queried “pig” as synonymous with “ham”.  I can assure you that Jewish solvers, in particular, are very accustomed to referring, disdainfully, to all sorts of pig-meat as just that, or “pig” for short, assuming they don’t know the Yiddish word “chazzer”.  There could have been an opportunity for a reverse clue here (“ham clue on top of elephant”? Can’t see how to make a surface) – but Paul (perhaps wisely) chose not to go there!

    Also I have no problems with June as “middle of summer”.  But then – I only have to don my amateur astronomer’s hat and note that the Summer Solstice, or Midsummer’s Day as it’s commonly called, is usually on June 21st.  Those enduring the British climate may, of course, choose to disagree….. 🙂

    Many thanks to Paul and Eileen.

30. ‘Twas the enumeration of I’VE GOT YOU UNDER MY SKIN (and, unlike ilippu@9, believe ringworm to be subcutaneous – seem to recall my father having same in 1920s; perhaps they’re venturing out in these internationalist times?) which brought me here. I wasn’t sure it was an error; as this was so straightforward (prize puzzles seem to be so now) I wondered whether it was there to add a little difficulty.
    Anyhow, I rather enjoyed this puzzle though couldn’t understand why there were three appearances of “red” in the clues. Another reason I’ve, untypically, visited a 225 prize blog.
    Many thanks to Paul, and Eileen, of course.
    [The Bob Marley track also a favourite, though a cover of course. I have framed portraits in my bathroom of four men I particularly admire: Vincent van Gogh, Charlie Chaplin, David Bowie and Bob Marley. Eileen – oddly, my equivalent of your ‘Songs for Swingin’ Lovers’ was a rerecording of Caruso bel canto, listened to so often I can hear it now….!]

31. Pino@27,

    I always thought of Chambers as the ‘crossword bible’, too, and was quite taken aback when (some years ago now) Collins Dictionary became the prize for the Saturday crossword.

    I think what I said about two sources in the absence of a Collins entry is in fact the rule for the Times. Certainly for the Sunday Times clue-writing comp. Perhaps any Guardian setters reading this can tell us the Guardian’s policy on dictionaries?

32. Of course, a few weeks ago, Paul gave us (rather controversially) TATTARRATTAT, which only appears in the OED, though it was totally gettable from wordplay, so maybe there’s no hard and fast rule at the Guardian?

33. According to Boatman, the Grauniad sets no specific rules as which dictionaries may be used.  Open season???

34. Interesting. Thanks, Laccaria.

35. Can’t for the life of me make sense of the annotated answer for 16, anybody ?…

    16 strung (value)S/(tha)T/(bothe)R/(yo)U/(whe)N/(strugglin)G

    Ta.

36. Nick Goodwin @35

    I shouldn’t think anyone else is looking in now, so it falls to me – and I have no idea. I stand by my parsing in the blog.

    I can’t find the annotated solution [?] but it seems to be taking the final letters of (value)S/(tha)T/(bothe)R/(yo)U/(whe)N/(strugglin)G – which bears no relation to the original clue, which refers to initial letters. I’ve  looked up the puzzle to see if the clue has been changed – but no. You would need to contact the Guardian Crossword Editor.

37. Strung = so troublesome initially (ST) + rung = step of a ladder

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