Azed 2,410 – Rama’s Nag

19 comments on “Azed 2,410 – Rama’s Nag”

1. Solvers may have noticed that an unusually high number of clues (11 out of 37) have a punctuation mark (‘:’, ‘-‘ or ‘?’) separating the definition from the wordplay. This is because in puzzles like this, where the wordplay does not lead to the word indicated by the definition, ‘links’ between the two that imply equivalence are not acceptable. If this were a standard puzzle, 35ac might have been phrased as ‘Far from straight course from chap taking turn cutting grass’, but because MEANDER does not come ‘from’ MAN< in REED this wouldn’t work. It means that in this puzzle Azed has had to cope with an additional constraint when writing every clue.

2. PeeDee, I am glad it wasn’t my turn this week! This was my first DNF in an Azed puzzle for many years, although a busy week at work (and three evenings out playing bridge) did rather eat into the available time. I didn’t help myself by carelessly entering STILE at 34a (equating “pork pie”’ with a hat); I can’t remember how I dealt with the definition. I also had THESE instead of THERE at 5d, but the parsing made little sense and the definition was dubious as well.

   I agree about EGIS. It’s the only blemish in an otherwise superb puzzle.

3. This was a slog at times, but always fair. I think the most impressive thing is the grid fill. I’m in awe of th ability to find the words to make this possible.

4. One more things – I did scratch my head about EGIS, but I put it in as it couldn’t possibly be anything else, but this is a minor gripe.

5. Switching between the across and down styles of clues made my head spin after a while, so I didn’t notice that the clue for EGIS was the wrong way round. I relied quite heavily on the Chambers anagram tool, and don’t feel so bad about it now that our blogger did the same thing! This must have been a monster to set, and Azed goes up even higher in my esteem (if that is possible). Excellent puzzle.

6. I was away last Sunday and my current policy is not to catch up on puzzles missed – it looks as though I missed a treat here.

   I agree with others that 29dn appears to be the wrong type, as the definition must be of GIES. There is nothing in the clue that I could make work as a definition of EGIS. That means that the wordplay should be leading to EGIS not GIES, which works if “putting on” is taken to mean “following” (in a down clue).

7. I finished this on the day of publication, but can’t honestly say I enjoyed it all that much. Very clever, of course, but with a number of clues, having deduced the grid entry from the wordplay (across clues) or definition (down clues), I just couldn’t be bothered to work out the anagram of the other half of the clue, as it didn’t help in filling the grid.

   Then there was 29d, my second one in, as I tend to work backwards from the end of the down clues when starting a crossword. I confidently entered GIES, following the instructions, only to be left later with an impossible word at 28a and a likely one at 32a which didn’t fit. Overall I was left mildly disgruntled by the whole affair.

   I have tackled the Azed every week for years, but these days I’m always slightly relieved to see the word “plain” in the title.

8. I had TERRACE for a while at 14a, thinking a landlord could be a CATERER, and justifying TACE (silent!) as ‘shut’ on the grounds that it could mean shut up! I wasn’t happy with it but it eventually came out in the wash.

   Good to see others had the same view of 29d.

   A tough one, but brilliantly done. Thanks to Azed and PeeDee, and to DRC @1 for pointing out something that hadn’t occurred to me.

9. I seem to have enjoyed this much more than some others did.  I thought I might have to resort to an anagram solver but resisted the temptation & surprised myself by completing the grid unaided in not too much longer than usual for an Azed – there were enough readily solvable clues to generate crossers which then led to steady progress through the others which I found to be a very satisfying process.  However, I did then need to use aids to find 8+ of the anagrams for the non-grid words.  And, like others, I was confused by Egis, which does now appear to be simply an error.

   I don’t recall doing an Azed like this before & would welcome more in the future – though whoever is blogging may disagree! Many thanks to PeeDee for blogging this one.

10. I was sure Azed had produced a puzzle like this before, and it turns out that I blogged one a couple of years ago. As I said on that occasion, and would echo here, “one has to marvel at the ingenuity required to fill the grid with words that [almost all]  have .. one-word anagrams”.  There was, I thought, a slip in the previous puzzle too, with one of the downs being apparently a plain clue.

11. Is there not also an error, or at least a slight misdirection, in the preamble? “All grid entries and anagrams thereof are in the Chambers Dictionary (2014), except for two proper names(one biblical and one geographical).”

    So I spent ages in the atlas looking for a six-letter Greek Island.

12. Hi Marmite, I took the two proper names not in Chambers to be ARAGVI (geographical) and CEPHAS (biblical).  I think all the rest of the solutions are listed.

13. Thank you, PeeDee. There are people in the world who make me feel quite weak. Azed is probably supreme amongst them, but there are others… I had to use one of the online anagram things to come up with ARAGVI. I learned that it was a Duchy, and I wondered if Chambers was somehow becoming “encyclopaedic” rather than the sheer joy it’s been since about 1905. I really must update my 2006 edition and then I might not make such mistakes.

    I have to say that the Marmite Smuggler used to be a second-hand bookseller (whatever that means) in a country that it should not take very long for Azed’s followers to work out. He still has a fair collection (I think about ten, some sold) of various Chambers going back to, I think, 1867. I can’t find anything at my age: recollection indicates that the 1867 edition was a reprint of the 1865 first, but with an Addendum. Something like that anyway

    I always marvelled. When the military vehicle known as the “tank” appeared, the brilliant minds came up with a definition of three words. Could we do that nowadays? You have ten seconds…  starting from NOW!

    If it’s any consolation, the equally brilliant minds of today use about nine.

    Yes, by 1914, the tank had become known as “an automobile fort”. Of course, that’s exactly what it is. As an Englishman, I bow my head to the Scots.

    I’m ex-X, 1970–71. Even an Azed Plain nowadays takes me two days. I used to do them just about sitting on the toilet on Sunday mornings.

    My name is not-to-be-revealed. I’m new. There is a certain person who appears in the Azed slips archive from the early 1970s. But I am not one to boast.

     

     

14. Hi Marmite, are you saying that Aragvi is listed in one of you editions of Chambers?  I find dictionaries fascinating, especially Chambers.  It is one of those interests that I didn’t used to talk about much in public, it was guaranteed to make someone’s eyes glaze over in microseconds.  Now, whilst I am not exactly old, I am old enough not to care any more so if you could let me know the details I would be grateful.

15. No. I am saying that I was wholly wrong and you were right.

    I haven’t been to the country of my birth in two decades. Last time I was there, a dear friend of some sixty years was driving us somewhere (probably the pub) and I was lamenting, idly, out of the window, that the 1905 Chambers set the benchmark. What was happening in the world meant that there was a minor update for 1914. Then you could buy a Mid-Century Dictionary in 1950 but you didn’t have to update it till the 1970 edition came out. But then there was one in 1977 and then there was another as soon as 1982. I was moaning that, sooner or later, we’d have to be buying dictionaries every year!

    No internet back then, of course.

    We didn’t drive into a tree but the chauffeur was I think falling asleep at my outstanding historical exposition. By the time I’d got into the various Addenda, how the Abbreviations were treated, Chemistry, Maths and just the various sillinesses which make Chambers Chambers, I had learned a new word. My friend was extraordinarily surprised at this glorious exegesis but suggested it was “a bit anorakish”!

    It’s not in my 2006 edition.

     

16. Thanks PeeDee for a very clear exposition of this marvel. And to Azed for a treat.

    My 90-year-old brain meant that the strain of this did take me a couple of days to complete with only my fairly ancient Chambers and a trip to a gazeteer (ARAGVI could only be one of three “impossible” words).

    EGIS drove me to distraction but given the complexity of what Azed set himself it was forgivable. I suspect there are a few who filled in the answers but didn’t bother to track down all the anagrams but I couldn’t stand not knowing. My last anagram finds were GOLIARDY and (ashamedly) THREE! (I was sure it was ETHER and couldn’t make it fit)

    Incidentally I enjoy rarely using electronic aids though I’ve a miniaturised complete OED, quite an heirloom. Was amused by the history of Chambers- my first was 1952 and I’ll continue to rely on the 2008 for the rest of my days.

    I’m sure there was once a similar idea used in one of his masochistic marvels where there were four 12-letter edges each with a definition of an anagram. Can anyone locate it?

    What a pleasure to have a few more names in this week’s blog. Am afraid I could never think of a nom-de-plume and it amuses me that I share the name of a distinguished academic.

    I sometimes wonder whether, in 1944 we might all have met at Bletchley Park, had we been of an age and made the cut. Were any early Torquemada/Ximenes followers there?

     

17. Dear Mr Thomas, and others

    Thank you for my welcome to the forum. I hope to be able to contribute in some meaningful way (unlike my oafish ARAGVI). It had to be ARAGVI. The anagram thingy I used  gaveno diefinit6ion. (That’s definition: but I have a battle on my hadst—otherwise known ass hands— or something similar. Ass hands are soemt6hing best left to vets.

    It has nothing to do with typing. I went for a job once and I was coming out at 60wpm with 90% accuracy. Didn’t get the job. But I would never have brought down MH17. My new computer is taking a little getting use-to (used to}

    My name, I’ve decided to reveal is Stefan. Mob he44ritage is Poklish (see?).

    I suppose wed .all remember Grayu said.

    (Now come on: I typed we’d all remember the Grauniad.) Will, one day, this infancy end up in Chambers and Azed?

    Stefan

     

18. Final comment, Dear Mr Thomas and others

    Because, as I have revealed, I sold books. There are some books you are very reluctant to part with. Bletchley Park: now, my Goodness Me! My mathematics was excellent, but no better than some of those women’s who were employed merely as typists. My French and German aren’t wholly fluent but they aren’t ‘alf bad. I can also get by in Russian and Polish. I still speak to people in Greek mountain villages in both katharevousa and demotiki. Latin is sadly weak.

    My playing of chess was, and still is, interesting. I am not very good. Unless you give me twenty-four hours to make a move. Which makes the game boring but my move—well: I shall surprise you.

    I cannot remember the names of the pubs they used to go to (there were some serious drinkers there, but that didn’t matter) or the names of the landlords. I would have been there: and, as some have said, you were enjoying a pint and then you’ve got to dash back because some light has come on in your brain. Now, that happens in crossworders too. So perhaps not wholly irrelevant.

    I shall, forever, revere Turing, and revile the British establishment.

    I am sorry: I shall make sure my future posts are relevant. I’ve got some scrap paper: it’s fifty-five years ago now. Why on earth can I still solve by induction the binomial theorem? (Still working on neighbouring primes).

    Stefan

19. Marmite Smuggler, I have moved your most recent comment to the general discussion page.  All your comments welcome, but please post those not about this Azed puzzle to the general discussion page.

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