Guardian 27,985 / Enigmatist

75 comments on “Guardian 27,985 / Enigmatist”

1. 19d ‘army’ – having a lot of arms.

2. I was typing at the same time as you were!

3. For me, totally and utterly unfathomable. I am in awe of anyone who can decipher this.

4. Eileen, thanks for the blog and for highlighting the album titles in the clues.  If you look at the completed grid, you will see that Enigmatist has smuggled in the names of several members of the band. (Maddy) PRIOR is there in the middle and (Rick)KEMP towards the south-west corner.  At the top is (Bob) JOHNSON and over to the right is (Peter) KNIGHT.  Going down on the right hand side is (Tim) HART.  I was disappointed that my friend Liam Genockey didn’t find his name there, but his predecessor as the group’s drummer, Nigel PEGRUM is there.

    

5. 13dn, 17ac, 26dn also spell out the band (just about)…

   For me, an example of torturous wordplay trying to fit a theme. I am OK with the theme – indeed we have tickets to see them in December as part of the 50th anniversary tour – but felt so many clues here were over-convoluted to fit it that it spoiled the elegance of really good setting. Not that there weren’t many gems, and much to admire here, but it’s not to my taste.

   Muffin will be pleased to see “ta-ta”, confirming his theory about the long “goodbye” sequence.

   Many thanks Eileen – I could not parse a few of these (such as “retch”) so needed your help understanding why I’d written what I had!

6. Many thanks, Bridgesong. I did think of looking for band members when I started out but, by the time I’d finished with the albums and having found none in plain sight, I’d forgotten!

   TheZed @5 – yes, I had seen that, of course and referred to them in the preamble – just didn’t actually spell it out. And, as I said in the blog, there’s 26ac and 24 dn, too.

7. Nothing really to add (except to say that I really liked “army”). However, I did want to say that I finally got Saturday’s 3d last night. I’m still groaning (not helped by “army” today)!

8. This was a real struggle. I am looking forward to a nice, easy Prize puzzle tomorrow – anything will be easy compared to this!
   I had heard of the band Steeleye Span but never heard many/any of their songs. I know more of Steely Dan than Steeleye Span.
   I failed to solve 1d, 26a, 14d, 2d, 9a – I ran out of time to spend on this puzzle, and probably would not have solved them anyway.
   Of the ones I “solved”, I could not parse or fully parse 3d, 7d, 26d, 19d, 16d, 17a, 20a.
   New for me was YOMP – and although I am Australian, I would never think to write UEY like that but I have heard it spoken before.

   Thanks Eileen and Enigmatist.

9. DNF, no surprise. Had half a dozen unparsed and two blanks when giving up. Not seen before and not understood: ‘rocket’ as reversal indicator, though the answer was obvious. Oh, and I hate it when ‘man’ simply means a name.

   Thanks to setter and blogger, but please Enigmatist, we’re only human!

10. An annoyingly nerdish theme – was it Enigmatist who had us toiling over the Incredible String Band a while back?  Worth it for 6d though – don’t know how that answer gratifyingly popped into my head!

11. Sorry if I’m being dim but what’s the connection between recipe and take?

12. Oh dear! I’m with RH @3, and very grateful to Michelle @8 for taking the trouble to name the band. I’ll return the favour by saying that ‘yomp’ is army and especially paratroop or Marines slang for a hard march across open country. It became familiar during the Falklands War.

13. Bodycheetah @11

    I’ve said before that I think this should be one of our FAQs. R is short for Recipe, which is Latin for ‘take’. It used to be seen at the beginning of doctors’ prescriptions – worth filing away because it often crops up in crosswords.

14. A work of art, but I must admit that I needed the check button and didn’t parse everything. Horkstow Grange jumped out immediately, but it was quite late on before I spotted all the hidden band members (most of whom were not there in 1969, but the line-up that had the hits was probably more familiar to most than the Hutchings/Woods original one).

    Thanks to Enigmatist and Eileen

15. ….or G and on the rails?

16. Incredible setting as ever to get so many references in the grid and clues. For me, only solved with liberal use of word searches. I prefer that to having a DNF.

    Thanks Eileen for sorting out the parsing of one or two. Although I thought of the SN=tin, I spent a long time considering that the ‘cans’ was a word container, doh.

    My second-hand claim to fame is that I went to school with Maddy’s brother and heard her sing at one of his parties.

    Thanks Enigmatist for the tour-de-force.

17. Some Wiki info. about BAINS-MARIE: The name comes from the medieval-Latin term balneum (or balineum) Mariae—literally, Mary’s bath—from which the French bain de Marie, or bain-marie, is derived. The device’s invention has been popularly attributed to Mary the Jewess, an ancient alchemist. However, the water bath was known many centuries earlier (Hippocrates and Theophrastus).

18. Picked my way through a bit over half of this in between watching our openers compile hundreds against the Pakistanis (sorry cricket non-lovers). Had no idea of the theme, and couldn’t parse some I did get, eg bains marie which, other than b (airman is)* + e, I still don’t get. Hey ho.

19. My thanks to Bridgesong for the completed and highlighted grid – and to Gaufrid for posting it for me!

    I hadn’t spotted the clever positioning of EYE –  I’d taken it from 17ac EYE UP and 24dn EYEFUL – and there’s  also another SPAN in 26ac, as I’ve mentioned before.

     

20. A lovely anniversary celebration – ear worms and all!  I had fun solving and spotting the connections.  My particular favourite has to be 19d

    Thanks to Lucky Eileen (yes I know it takes work to solve and parse a Henderson crossword, but well worth the effort) and to the man himself

     

21. Me @ 20

    Should have said ‘solve, parse and blog…’

22. Once again, I agree with crypticsue – but I’m sore from kicking myself for not going back to look for band members – and especially for missing PRIOR, which seems so obvious now.

23. A near total failure for me despite spotting and being familiar with the theme. Very naughty of enigmatist to hide the band members across multiple clues!

    Would anybody like to enlighten me as to what a shoe peg is?

24. The highlighted grid is missing span[KEM P]ty seat.

25. Too much obscure knowledge required for the wordplay to fall into place for several answers (POP PICKERS? UEY?), so had to use the checker for the first time in ages.  And the theme left me cold — never heard of them or any of their numbers.  All in all, an unrewarding slog, I’m afraid.  Usually enjoy Enigmatist.

26. beery @24 – but Bridgesong did mention it in his comment @4.

27. Beery hiker @24: you’re right, my mistake.  As Eileen says, I did spot him originally!

28. No memory lane for me either, Steel Eye Span never part of my musicography. In fact rather a frustrating experience all in all, apart from the usual cleverly constructed clues, some of which I eventually had to give up on. Bah humbug!

29. Ditto-ish with Ronald. After loving acoustic folkies doing Graham, Jansch and Renbourn, electric folk didn’t do it for me, Spotted Cow et sequ, although I did see Pentangle, Sydney Town Hall, circa ’69, who were quite nice.

30. I only vaguely remember Steeleye Span (or Fairport Convention, for that matter), my tastes being more toward the folk than the rock.  I’d certainly never heard of Horkstow Grange or most of the musicians mentioned here beyond the immortal Maddy.  But I did look the band up in Wikipedia, and have one sort of suggestion — JOHN(s) in 9a combines with STEEL EYE SPAN to form the character in Horkstow Grange who gave his name to the band.  I’d never known before where the name came from.

    Thank you, Enigmatist for the puzzle and Eileen as ever for the exuberance.

31. Thanks Eileen for comprehensive blog on a theme JH must have put some effort into .I knew these chaps and was present at some early gigs. I liked Maddy’s voice and the general vibe of the band,They and Fairport made a fine pair of folk rock bands.

    But I didnt see the band names featured in the grid, nor did I remember those album titles.So glad I popped in here. And thanks E

32. TheZed@5 – don’t think it was muffin!

    The weird thing about this theme is that it wasn’t one that helped too much: presumably you got the band name before the theme, and the albums were in the clues. The members were in the grid, to be sure, but not as integral answers.

    However, quite an achievement, and congrats and thanks 30a.

33. Brilliant, even though it took me nearly 2 hours. It was only when I saw All around my hat (my least favourite SS song – I went to many gigs in the 70s) across the bottom that I twigged the theme and started looking for band members etc. No Carthy or Hutchings, but an extra PRIOR in today’s Quick, three EYEs and 2 SPANs. I did wonder about Virgin, but they were never with that label. Thanks for the explanations of the ones I got but couldn’t parse.

34. Worth adding perhaps that Status Quo (3dn) re-recorded All About My Hat in 1996 with Maddy Prior singing harmonies.

35. Sorry, All Around My Hat!

36. Hasn’t that song got too many chords for Quo?

     

37. Mostly all been said about this. I known little about the band (apart from their name), therefore no help to me. A DNF for me, but got down to last two before calling it a day. Given where I was earlier in the solve, I was quite pleased with that. I failed on 2d and 6d, with the latter being by fault by convincing myself the answer was Saint something or other. The last one I actually got was span with some hesitation with spank as the crosser. I like a challenge though and thanks to Enigmatist for that and to Eileen for sorting out some parsing.

38. 25ac – noting that STEPHEN is a track in the 2000 album BEDLAM BORN.

39. Martin Carthy and John Kirkpatrick are both Guardian crossword enthusiasts and former members of SES.  I wonder what they think of this one.

40. Easy-ish crossword without bothering about the pointless ‘theme’.

41. Also 4D, 5D, 7D – contain Now We Are Six.

42. And Now we are Six is the album that contains renowned folky David Bowie guesting on Sax on the cover of Phil Spector’s “To Know him is to love him”!

43. I failed on the top left corner, but thoroughly enjoyed the puzzle nonetheless.

    As a mere lad in the 1970s I used to go to a very good folk club which was organised by friends in Walthamstow. Tim Hart and Maddy Prior were regular, and very popular, performers there, as was Martin Carthy. My wife and I were pleased to see Martin and his wife some years ago in a folk club in Northumberland where we now live, and it was good to learn that he not only recalled the Walthamstow club but was still in occasional contact with the organiser of so long ago.

    Maddy Prior was noted not just for her fine voice, but for interspersing her songs with the most atrocious jokes.

    While I admire Steeleye Span, I did prefer Tim and Maddy’s acoustic work, and the latter is sadly missed.

44. Oh dear!  I had no idea either before or after my attempt at solving this puzzle what was being celebrated.  And I had to read down to Michelle’s comment @8 to see what it was all about.

    That, and the four unkown words that I encountered in the bottom half, accounted for my inability to finish this crossword.  But as Eileen says it was a clever puzzle, and there were many good clues, including a sufficient number iof those that I could enjoy unravelling first before confirming the answer.  (There were also several that I had to guess and then post-solve, as it were.)

    I especially liked, JOHNS, RUMINAL, EMPTY SEAT, LEHAR and STEEL.

    Many thanks to Enigmatist for a challenging puzzle, and to Eileen for the blog and for explaining a few abstruse clues.

45. This was my worst DNF in years and years and years.   Yhe clues were at the most obscure end of Enigmatist’s trick bag–which is already pretty recherche to begin with–and my mind wasn’t on the wavelength anyway.  I got maybe about ten answers before I started using the cheat button, at which point I decided I was wasting my time.  Blaggh.  And I haven’t heard of the band–either I’m too young or too American, I’m not sure which–so there was no added pleasure from the theme anyway.

    This is not a criticism, mind you.  It just means that it and I are a poor fit, like a too-narrow shoe or a bad blind date.

46. Like others hunted for Gnocky and Woods. Also can’t wait for Brighton visit soon. 18a clue is probably there best ever album.

47. I surrendered after solving 12 clues. Unfortunately, not my line. Although I got NIGHT, Horkstow Grange meant nothing; I thought it was made up to provide the H and G!

48. No fun for me here. Tortuous cluing and obscure theme. And to think, today is the 50th Anniversary of The Beatles last live performance. Now I would have had a better chance with that!

49. howard@23

    Shoe-pegs are wooden pegs driven into the sole of a shoe (or boot!) and are used to hold the shank in place.  Video link refers and displays a process far, far easier than solution of todays puzzle

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8Vo_DgamX0

50. Thanks Eileen.
    Theme didn’t help me at all – I did spot the band name and song emerging and wondered if it was going to be the anniversary of their appearance at the “Rootstock” festival – but sadly they must have missed that one.
    I also didn’t get the Australian part of 17a – almost convinced myself “retro turn” was “ye U” as in “ye olde worlde road manoeuvre”.

51. Thanks Enigmatist and Eileen

    As a fan – we saw them earlier this year in Burnley, in fact – I got the theme before solving any clues (Horkstow Grange was the key for me too). It didn’t help much, except to confirm All around my hat. I regret now that I had little time to devote to it this morning, so I missed all the hidden band members.

52. What MartinD @48 said. It appears that not many of us finished this puzzle – I managed about 50% after two hours, at which point I gave up – and I guess even fewer actually enjoyed it. And that’s for a bunch of solvers who are stronger than most.

    Come on, Enigmatist, listen to your punters and ease up a bit.

53. Thanks to both. This was a step too far for me but I was just recovering from the “Endeavour” pulling into port as part of the 250th celebrations so my mind really wasn’t on this.

    You might like to know the Eyeful Tower does exist – it is the top station on the Driving Creek Railway in the Coromandel. Well worth a visit if you are ever in the area and have a couple of spare hours.

54. I’ve only just found time to study the solution blog and grid properly, and (like Dr Whatson, Robi and others have said:already) I have to admire the neat way, without any sense of ‘cramming’, all those thematic names have been incorporated into the grid. And KEMP is another one, apparently. Congratulations to the setter.

55. I dread Enigmatist, so failing to get ‘only’ six clues was a success to me.

56. Alan B @34 – many thanks for that!

    I’ve been surprised and disappointed by so many negative responses to this brilliant puzzle.

    I wish this had been a Prize puzzle – and there’s no real reason why it couldn’t have been, since there was no specific date – which would have given [not just me] more time for research and, I hope, I would have come up with [at least!] PRIOR, and thus a lead into other band members. I’m really sorry I failed to do this.

     

57. Well said, Eileen

    When you get an Enigmatist puzzle, you know it’s going to be tough and a challenge.  He doesn’t compromise and its sad the venerable crossword editor doesn’t use him more often; after all he is the longest-running setter on the Guardian panel.

    His cluing is challenging and demands some thought outside the box, unlike some of the setters on the panel who produce lazy unimaginative fodder and we’ve seen a few of those recently.

    It took me a while to get on with this puzzle, as I took the ‘tin can’ in 1ac to be from another piece of music celebrating its 50th anniversary this month.

     

    Maybe solvers should study Eileen’s excellent blog and try to get inside Mr H’s mind so that next time they can manage a few more clues.

58. I agree with Dr. WhatsOn @32 about the theme, which I recognized only after getting STEEL and SPAN (at first thought it rather weak to have the latter overlapping SPANK). I also agree that this was extraordinarily tough (a fivefold dnf for me). Enigmatist is, at least for me, always several levels of difficulty above any other regular Guardian setter.

    Thanks to Enigmatist and to Eileen for clearing up three or four unparsed answers.

59. In response to Eileen @56 and poorsolver @57, I should have added that in spite of being regularly thrashed by Enigmatist, I admire his work and do study his clues to sharpen my skills.

60. Eileen @56
    Don’t worry about ‘failing’ to seek and find the band members. None of them is in plain sight, and bridgesong did us all a favour by providing the impressive grid that prompted my later comment (@54, by the way, not @34). I suppose KEMP should be in red, too – it was mentioned by bridgesong @4.

61. About three hours of struggle as expected with Enigmatist, but worth it when the theme (finally) revealed itself, even if some of the thematic references and the Nina(s) passed me by.

    A self-awarded Order of the Green Ribbon for finishing this one.

    Thanks to Enigmatist for a challenging but ultimately satisfying puzzle and to Eileen for such a comprehensive blog

62. This is the first Enigmatist I’ve ever attempted.
    I’ve always been intimidated by him/her – and reading FS commenters’ remarks about various fiendishly difficult E-crosswords has only increased my trepidation.
    So I must just have been extremely lucky today. I know of Steeleye Span, I bought a few of their albums many years back, I can recall the names of some members and various hits. 30A & 31A were early successes, and a quick check on Wiki confirmed the anniversary. Although it was fun spotting album and track names and seeing participants’ names appearing, for me the main charm of this puzzle were clues like 24D and 11A (which i so wanted to be Woodstock!) and the delightful 14D. I couldn’t parse quite a few, so a grateful thanks to Eileen for such an informative blog – and a huge thanks to Enigmatist, la crême de la crême!

63. Thanks to Eileen and Enigmatist

    Enigmatist is one of my favourite setters but:

    In 21d, to read “to eat” as “to be eaten by” stretches Yoda speak beyond breaking point.

    Minor points but I also can’t see:

    NIGHT = the DARK

    IN ALL = ENTIRELY

    NO LONGER = but NOT NOW

    Perhaps someone can enlighten me.

    I’m sure George @43 meant “former” rather than “latter” as I saw the latter perform brilliantly a couple of months ago.

64. copland smith @36 – as a fan of both Steeleye Span & the venerable Quo, I was delighted when SS supported SQ at one of their gigs ca1995. Encore inevitably All Around My Hat.

    Admirable xword, but echo those sentiments about its needing to be a prize rather than a daily.

    Many thanks to Eileen

     

65. I printed this one out so as to avoid the temptation to use the cheat buttons and I really enjoyed the challenge and ultimately getting to the finish line.  Plenty of stuff I needed to check afterwards – BAINS-MARIE, ROOTSTOCK, LEHAR to name a few.  The theme passed me by, but I should at least have seen STEELEYE SPAN.  Wouldn’t have helped me personally, as I wasn’t into this particularly folk band.  Impressive grid though.

    Like DuncT, I parsed “retro turn” (17) as Ye U.  For 25, I was happy with the wording, the anagram fodder being just HITLER and the “parting” indicating a subsequent insertion of “a”.  I’m a little surprised Enigmatist went with the 2 SPANS in the SW.  Either could be changed and all the theme elements still retained.

    A good work-out, as we’ve come to expect from Mr. Henderson.  Thanks to him and to Eileen for the fine blog of a tough solve.

66. dansar@63

    Yes, mea culpa, happily Maddy Prior is still in good form and it is Tim Hart who has, sadly, passed away. A senior moment on my part, and I also realise that the folk club in Walthamstow must have been up and running in the late 1960s, even longer ago than I thought.

67. I forgot to mention that the song Horkstow Grange provides the theme for one of the movements in Percy Grainger’s Lincolnshire Posy – see here

68. Quite a struggle!
    Ye U works for me too. I suppose I don’t mind uey but has it been seen before?

69. I solved this today, so it was like a prize crossword for me. Had to reveal three answers though, it was quite a work-out.

    I’m sorry to have to report I’ve been keener over the years on the Fairports. Nevertheless thanks to Enigmatist, and of course to Eileen, for ducking in and out and keeping these pesky bloggers in some sort of control …

70. Completely opaque. I didn’t even know which band it was supposed to be, with all the answers laid out in front of me, until I saw the SW corner coloured in.

71. Ye U for me too. Having said that, I have heard of the word “uey” meaning to do a U turn. However, it was a word used by us in Merseyside years ago. This is not the first time that I’ve seen a word described as Australian which was commonly heard in Liverpool. Is there a connection ?

72. Ye U for me too. Having said that, I have heard of the word “uey” meaning to do a U turn. However, it was a word used by us in Merseyside years ago. This is not the first time that I’ve seen a word described as Australian which was commonly heard in Liverpool. Is there a connection I wonder ?

73. Brekkie, chewie, cossie all spring to mind

74. On second thoughts “to eat” could be read as “to eat/etch” into, I take it all back.

75. Too many quibbles to mention them all. Just will say celebration is redundant in 30a and rocket??? “Doing a uey” is well known where I’m from, Liverpool, but not as a written word. Didn’t enjoy this one I’m afraid.

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