A quicker solve than expected from a Friday Nutmeg, with some very neat cluing and a few trickier bits of parsing. Favourites were 10ac, 15ac, 26ac, 5dn, and 20dn.
…unless I’ve missed something, there seems to be an error in 8dn. Edit – the clue for 8dn has now been updated.
| Across | ||
| 1 | BEFORE | Favour first of entrants in advance (6) |
| BE FOR=”Favour” + first letter of E[ntrants] | ||
| 4 | JUMPS AT | Eagerly grasps hurdle, having landed on bottom (5,2) |
| JUMP=”hurdle” + SAT=”landed on bottom” | ||
| 9 | SHORTENED | Hammer Thor needs taken up (9) |
| as in ‘taking up’ a trouser hem (Thor needs)* |
||
| 10 | WORDS | Arm first to back an argument (5) |
| S–WORD=”Arm” with the first S moved to the back | ||
| 11 | LIKEN | Compare Liberal with President Clinton, ultimately (5) |
| L (Liberal) + IKE=President Eisenhower + [Clinto]N | ||
| 12 | RAIN DANCE | Steps taken to bring about downfall? (4,5) |
| cryptic definition | ||
| 13 | CASTING | Allocating roles in reconnaissance, keeping close to suspect (7) |
| CASING=”reconnaissance” as in ‘casing a joint’ before a robbery; around the closing letter to [suspec]T | ||
| 15 | GATHER | Assemble to conclude harvest (6) |
| triple definition “conclude” as in e.g. ‘I gather from your tone that…’ |
||
| 17 | WARNED | Westward retreat after conflict is admonished (6) |
| reversal/”Westward” of DEN=safe place=”retreat”; after WAR=”conflict” | ||
| 19 | BEATS ME | Dunno what victor does? (5,2) |
| and BEATS ME could also =”what victor does” | ||
| 22 | KNOWLEDGE | Characters from Kew longed to develop expertise (9) |
| (Kew longed)* | ||
| 24 | TACET | Tenor leading performers round Spain shut up in concert hall (5) |
| =musical direction indicating that an instrument is to remain silent for a period T (Tenor) + ACT=”performers” around E [España]=”Spain” |
||
| 26 | REIGN | Engaged in ceasefire, ignoring command (5) |
| hidden in [ceasefi]RE IGN[noring] | ||
| 27 | RED GROUSE | Game‘s left-winger to make complaint (3,6) |
| =a game bird RED=political “left-winger” + GROUSE=”make complaint” |
||
| 28 | SIGN OUT | Put one’s hand to old hat to register departure (4,3) |
| SIGN=”Put one’s hand to” + OUT=unfashionable=”old hat” | ||
| 29 | CASTLE | Players leave evacuated fortress (6) |
| CAST=”Players” + L[eav]E evacuated of its inner letters | ||
| Down | ||
| 1 | BASILIC | Sybil’s husband in charge of church with ceremonial rights … (7) |
| a basilica is a Roman Catholic Church specifically recognised by the Pope BASIL=”Sybil’s husband” in Fawlty Towers [wiki]; plus IC (in charge) |
||
| 2 | FLOCK | … fine means of securing congregation (5) |
| F (fine) + LOCK=”means of securing” | ||
| 3 | RETENTION | Keeping hospital department in Orient running (9) |
| ENT (Ear, Nose, Throat)=”hospital department”; inside (Orient)* | ||
| 4 | JUDGING | Trying case of drug popular in prison (7) |
| the “case” or outer letters of D[ru]G, plus IN=”popular”; all inside JUG=slang for “prison” | ||
| 5 | MOWED | Doctor made one cut (5) |
| MO (Medical Officer)=”doctor” + WED=united=”made one” | ||
| 6 | STRANGERS | Killers axing third of villains they haven’t met (9) |
| STRANG–L–ERS=”killers”, removing the third letter of vi-L-lains | ||
| 7 | TASTES | What MP has turned up about good man’s proclivities (6) |
| SEAT=”What MP has”, reversed/”turned up”; around ST (saint)=”good man” | ||
| 8 | IN DRAG | Unusually daring type of dressing (2,4) |
| (daring)* | ||
| 8 | IN DRAG | Guardian concocted non-U type of dressing (2,4) |
| (Guardian)*, without either U… gives IN DRAG, but with an extra ‘A’ | ||
| 14 | SHADOWING | Shielding light from poster in exhibition (9) |
| AD=”poster” in SHOWING=”exhibition” | ||
| 16 | TRATTORIA | Serving up puff pastry cases closed restaurant (9) |
| Reversal of AIR=”puff” + TART=”pastry”; around TO=”closed” as in ‘pull the door to’ | ||
| 18 | DIDEROT | French man of letters charged and executed on retirement (7) |
| TORE=rushed, moved quickly=”charged” + DID=performed=”executed”; all reversed/”on retirement” | ||
| 19 | BRENDA | Girl to stop wearing underwear (6) |
| END=”stop” inside BRA=”underwear” | ||
| 20 | EXTREME | Limit flexible term accommodated by Devon banker (7) |
| (term)* inside EXE=a Devon river/”banker” | ||
| 21 | SKIRTS | Narrowly avoids women’s clothing (6) |
| double definition | ||
| 23 | LENTO | Article removed from shed very slowly (5) |
| another musical direction ‘a’=indefinite “Article”, removed from LE-a-N TO=”shed” |
||
| 25 | COURT | Take out royal household (5) |
| double definition | ||
Thanks both. I was puzzled by the missing A in 8d, also by ACT = performers plural in 24a
Nicely clued. I made heavier weather of this than necessary for no readily explained reason. I liked 12ac although I think it’s a bit of an old one.
Thanks Manehi (and Nutmeg).
Fairly easy going for a Friday except TACET. Agree about 8dn perhaps there’s something I can’t see.
Likewise re 8dn
A very pleasant solve, starting in the bottom right and working clockwise. I got temporarily stuck on MOWED and WORDS, forgetting that WED can be in the past tense. MOWED, together with BEFORE and SIGN OUT, were my fabourite clues.
I agree concerning IN DRAG, which seems to be just an oversight – the sort that is easy to make, not that easy to pick up just on re-reading the clues, but all too easily picked up by a solver.
Thanks to Nutmeg and manehi.
Thanks to Nutmeg and Manehi. 8d is either a mistake or far too subtle for my Friday morning brain. 24ac is far too subtle for my Friday morning brain.
Shirl @1
I thought that performers, as a group, could constitute an act.
Thanks Alan @7, that makes sense to me now
Generally a relatively straightforward puzzle. Being a musician 24 was fairly clear. I got a bit stuck in the NE corner with 5 and10. Liked 12 and thought 7 clever. Agree that 8 is an error.
Thanks Nutmeg and Manehi.
Nutmeg has acknowledged on the G puzzle page comments that 8dn is an error and she’ll be supplying a new clue later. Lots of great surfaces here though I, too, was puzzled by act=performers as being a bit loose, or a type of metonym perhaps. “to”=”closed” was discussed before, I thought, and again I was not 100% sold on it.
Anyhow, thanks Nutmeg and thank you manehi. Some entertaining clues in there – loved “raindance”.
I was pleased to finish this after a couple of DNFs. Like Alan B@5, took a long time to get MOWED and WORDS – both great clues. Also bemused by IN DRAG and the extra ‘A’. Many thanks to Nutmeg and manehi.
Elegant clueing as usual from Nutmeg. As Frankie the cat says at 2, RAIN DANCE is an old chestnut but no less likeable for that. Strangers/stranglers seems to have occurred several times of late. At least this time TRATTORIA doesn’t appear in truncated form! I Googled Diderot – a forerunner of Wikipedia? – in the (admittedly morbid) hope he might have been one of those intellectuals who met their end on the guillotine – which would have made the clue pleasantly &littish. But he didn’t.
TACET is an odd one to encounter. A bit like Nabla the other day. Out of keeping with the tone of the rest of the puzzle. It’s not as if there was no alternative. Tacit would have fitted in (like Nubia for Nabla).
Ticks from me for the smooth BEFORE, the triple definition, MOWED for its simplicity and RETENTION for the definition that almost escaped me. Always lovely to be reminded of the sheer brilliance that was Fawlty Towers.
Thanks Nutmeg and manehi
That was very pleasant after the hard slog of yesterday. Very consistent standard of cluing (extra ‘a’ excepted). I find it the most satisfying when I get the answer – even after much struggle – and am entirely sure it is right, because the wordplay and definition (or other clue construction) is so clear and decisive it couldn’t be anything else. If I need help to parse, then I don’t rate the clue as highly, so I am puzzled when people comment (not for this crossword, I add) that, having seen the blogger’s deconstruction of a clue/answer, it becomes their favorite. So I found this a very enjoyable solve – thanks, Nutmeg. Thanks also to manehi, even though I didn’t require your assistance at all.
I don’t get the confusion over ‘act’. I’m sure everyone would call The Beatles, or a troupe of dancers, an act and not pluralise it.
Trademark succinctness in many Nutmeg clues today, so one doesn’t mind that for a Friday, yes, a bit of a rattle-through. Even so, LOI 10ac found me once again thinking Hell, hope I never have to rely on wits to save my life; even after the mental alpha-trawl found ‘words’, I was still going ? about the clue..talk about dopey, given that the ‘last to back’ trick is such a chestnut…a teachest moment you might say. And a couple of learnings were the spelling of tacEt (not ..it, long time since fiddle playing), and new word basilic, for which my SOED has only one word, ‘kingly’..hmmm. Oherwise, a fun gallop, ta Nutmeg and Manehi.
Quite a testament to Nutmeg’s skill and consistency when there is ‘a clear error’ but we all think that it’s us who is reading it wrong! A refreshingly honest apology too for what could have easily been dismissed as a typo – shows yesterdays ‘Meh, there was enough to solve it’ nonsense in an even worse light!
Smoothest of clues and impeccable wordplay as usual so thanks to Nutmeg and manehi.
…but, Deegee@12, doesn’t ‘act’ actually require the ‘an’ preceding it to make it substitutable?
Me @ ? (post numbers don’t show on my phone) How time flies, that nonsense was of course on the day before yesterday!
A lot of good clues in this one, so the whoopsie at 8d was all the more irritating. The surface and wordplay for DIDEROT was excellent, I thought. And the incongruity of Basil Fawlty and canonical rites made for a lovely misdirection in 1d. Jolly good. (Shame the Grauniad doesn’t seem to make use of a crossword editor in the way the Times does — but then you pay through the nose for the Times.)
Thanks to manehi for clear explications.
I try to solve the puzzle on my iPad without recourse to any aids or pencil and paper to work out anagrams, so I never even noticed the slip-up in 8d. Nutmeg’s puzzles give so much pleasure that I’m sure that no-one would begrudge her the very rare oversight.
Apart from that mishap, anyone trying to learn how to construct crossword clues, or to improve their skills, could do no better than to study Nutmeg’s puzzles
A lovely puzzle with MOWED and WORDS being last in like others – and despite seeing WORDS as an anagram or SWORD I still didn’t follow the instructions and parse it! BEFORE was a favourite of mine too – I had the answer and sat there thinking “I’ve never heard of a BEFOR as a favour!” until the penny dropped. And I had a similar experience with trying to find the shed element of LENTO. TACET was a tilt – I thought it might be a sign for the audience to be quiet! As for 8d I think it’s the first time I’ve been sure the clue is wrong and I’ve been right!
Many thanks to Nutmeg and manehi.
Too many !s
Deegee @14 I thought the confusion over “act” was the substitution of a part for the whole without any indication (typically a question mark). It is a classic example of synecdoche, “the performers” being used to mean “the act as a whole” more commonly seen in reverse where you might, indeed, have once said “The Beatles are (*not is* ie the people not the band) an up-and-coming new act from England”. If a setter used e.g. “Ford” for “car” there would commonly be an indication that this was a definition by example.
I think it is largely down to how commonly the metonym is used, to the extent that it can become a direct substitution. If rare, it would need more aid – for example, if “workers” were used for “company” I would not think this very fair. In this case I think it is OK but the lack of indicator put it near the threshold, as it were!
grantinfreo@17 …only if we’re going to insist all answers must contain an article!
Best of the week for me. I didn’t even notice the extra a in 8a (not sure what that says about me) I would agree this was not Nutmeg at her hardest so it was just in my comfort zone!! Favourites were DIDEROT, BRENDA – reminded me with a smile that it is/was Private Eye’s nickname for the Queen – and RED GROUSE, after I had stopped looking for a game that is played doh.
Many thanks Nutmeg and manehi!
Re 8d. Could it be non U and A as a blood type?
Smooth offering as is now expected of this setter.
NE corner yielded last due to the cleverly concealed “made one” in MOWED and “what MP has” in TASTES.
Raised an eyebrow at act = plural but decided it was fair for the same reason as AlanB @5.
Re RAIN DANCE, I was fascinated to learn that this was originally a sort of meteorological con performed by N American Indians on unwitting settlers. The natives became very adept at spotting weather patterns and, when they were reasonably sure rain was likely, would offer to perform a rain dance for the farmers in return for certain goods. Good on ’em, say I.
Brava Meg, many thanks.
…by the way, meant to add that, after yesterday’s exhaustive debate on anagrinds, my heart sank on reading “Hammer Thor needs taken up“!
I enjoyed this very much as it was neither a write-in nor a slog like yesterday. Favourites were BASILIC (dear old Basil Fawlty), RAIN DANCE, (it might be an old chestnut but I hadn’t come across it before and it made me smile) and JUMPS AT. Many thanks Nutmeg and manehi for confirming a few parsings I was not sure of.
One can always rely on Nutmeg for a well-clued, entertaining crossword (a small slip, notwithstanding). I did realise there was an extra A but assumed it was an error because the clue seemed otherwise very straightforward.
I did like RAIN DANCE, even if it is a chestnut (I either haven’t seen or have forgotten it). I also liked the ‘made one’ for WED that took a while to see.
Thanks Nutmeg and manehi – I forgot the closed = to again, doh!
OK so no heavy lifting and the curse of the extra a but the usual sweet concoction with delightful surfaces and clever cluing.
Faves were BASILIC and JUMPS AT.
I had Barbra at first for 19d then thought it’s only la Streisand and she is definitely not a girl so went back to the drawing board.
Thanks to NnM for a very pleasant diversion.
PS to avoid another life sapping UP thread can we agree ACT is put to bed?
Thanks Nutmeg and manehi
I got TACET without knowing what it meant – always the sign of a good clue. I didn’t notice the error in 8d either. Favourite was LENTO. This links to a lovely piece calle “Lento” by Howard Skempton.
What I like most about a Nutmeg puzzle is that even when you are worrying away at a problem, there is something at the back of your brain saying ‘you CAN see this’. She tantalises without being unfair.
Stuff like LIKEN and TRATTORIA is very laudable for making your brain break down phrases into knotty wordplay (qf. Pauls ‘red lentils’ clue last week). LENTO gave me a good chuckle for no really apparent reason. My only complaint is that we’ve had STRANG(L)ERS quite a lot recently.
Didn’t know TACET, so looked it up, LOI. Another good Nutmeg puzzle. Glad to see none of yesterday’s proclivity for prolixity on here today, IMHO…
The error at 8d has been acknowledged. Clue now reads ‘Unusually daring type of dressing’.
Maybe a smidgeon below Nutmeg’s usual excellent standard? I guess that’s a problem when you set the bar so high. I wouldn’t call a LEAN TO a SHED but I can see how others might. Cheers
As Tassie Tim @13 said, one of the joys of a Nutmeg puzzle is never having to look at an answer and wonder what the setter had in mind. I have nothing to add to the previous comments but my own thanks to Nutmeg and manehi.
I had a few difficulties with this and had to leave it alone for an hour with four lights still unfilled. (Struggled to make tore=charged in 18d, though it had to be DIDEROT, and the cryptic definition at 12a wouldn’t fall into place despite the crossers.) On my return I immediately saw RAIN DANCE and COURT, saw that only IN DRAG would do at 8d, which left me T_C_T. Never having heard of TACET, the only other possibility TACIT clearly did not fit the clue, so I did not finish.
It’s wonderful to see how Nutmeg’s favourite setter status protects her from severe criticism of the error in 8d – owning up quickly and correcting it helps, of course. Several other setters would have been hanged, drawn and quartered for this on here, I reckon. Certainly the error delayed my solve, so I am amused that a number of posters above said they didn’t even notice it!
Yes much more enjoyable than yesterday’s hard work which I had to tackle in 3 sessions as I kept losing the will. Nutmeg returns with her typically witty and precise clueing where unlike yesterday (as many have said already) when you land upon the right answer you can feel totally confident In it’s correctness. In fact the superlative work throughout does make the rogue A in 8d a rather surprising shame but overall a real gem I thought. Thanks to all.
I am glad you never make any mistakes sheffield hatter. Must be great for you. I’m one that put IN DRAG straight in without noticing the error, so my mistake……… Usually the poor sod who is hanged drawn and quartered on here is the Editor and I always defend him because I am so grateful for the range and standard of the setters we get to entertain us!!
Woke up this morning and a resolution to 8d popped into my head, before I read there had been a correction. If we can continue to call the Guardian the Grauniad, the why can’t Nutmeg misuse the spelling too?
On 24a, I was expecting more comments than we’ve seen (so far). I’ve always thought that the unofficial prerequisites for doing these cryptics was knowledge of bridge and cricket terms, plus O-level Latin in your back pocket. Knowledge of musical terms helps too!
William@17 – Many thanks for an interesting infonugget on rain dance. When I solved that clue I thought it a shame that it wasn’t new to me; it’s a witty conceit that’s best when first met (though still enjoyable on reacquaintance). Any disappointment, however, more than compensated by your snippet which I wouldn’t have learnt otherwise.
As for the puzzle itself, I agree with all the praise. She really is a wonderful creatrix.
Many thanks, Nutmeg, and manehi.
Blimey,bit of a change from yesterday. Managed to complete this on my tablet. It does show that a crossword can be elegant and pleasing without being overly complicated. I enjoyed this very much.
Thanks Nutmeg.
So much to like. Solved this after the correction for 8a made, so no confusion there. Got held up in NE corner with an erroneous LEAPS till the penny dropped, and then quickly finished. Favs MOWED, WORDS and LENTO. Thanks to Nutmeg and to Manehi
sheffield hatter @38 Take your point about Nutmeg escaping relatively unscathed. But then most recent blogs have included complaints about repetition of observations on the basis that, once they’ve been aired once or twice and the point established, there is no communal benefit in reiteration. By the time I posted @12, the missing ‘A’ had been mentioned in 7 comments so there seemed little point in piling on the criticism.
DrW@41 – when I first read your post I thought you had resolved to begin cross-dressing and was going to demand a photo!
BTW must have missed something but where have all the ladies gone from the blog? Has there been a surfeit of gratuitous mansplaining or something even more heinous?]
Don’t think I would ever have got tacet and I failed to see court. Other than that, all good.
“Be for” is an oddity though. It definitely has the correct meaning, but try putting it in a sentence. It can be done but sounds a bit contrived.
Enjoyed this especially after yesterday. Didn’t let the extra ‘a’ stop me from getting 8d. TACET familiar to me as a musician. I liked the triple definition at 15a. In fact it was all very satisfactory. Thanks Nutmeg and manehi
SPanza @40. I’m not sure what part of my post @38 you have interpreted as implying that I never make mistakes. I said that it was “wonderful” that Nutmeg was not being excoriated on this site, and that I was “amused” that some people here had not even noticed the error.
I’m glad you always defend the editor when mistakes happen. Why did you think it would be a good idea to attack me?
Mark @45. Sorry, didn’t see yours while I was typing. Mine @38 was not so much about Nutmeg’s error as the reaction to it on here.
howard @47 Does it work to look at situations where ‘be against’ is valid and then state the opposite? “I’d be against the return of hanging” with its opposite “I’d be for the return of hanging”?
BlueCanary @46 I’m fairly confident shirl @1 is a lady – but the joys of online chat rooms means we can never be sure of anything. And Julia, of course, looks as if she was posting at the same time as you. Doesn’t help the cause today, but I welcomed the timely and humorous intervention from David’s sister yesterday evening. (Not that I’m taking sides in the argument which was amusing to observe from the sidelines).
BlueCanary@46 – all I can say is Wow!
Regarding COURT, isn’t it the case that in the days when the word court was actually used, the gentleman would visit the lady at home, and there was no actual taking out going on, or am I way off base?
I really liked “they haven’t met”
BlueCanary@46 yes missing, eg, JinA’s posts and Arachne’s puzzles. Fervently hope all ok with them.
grantinfreo @55. Yes, no sign of Eileen today either.
BTW I did enjoy your “tea chest moment” earlier today. Clunk!
Online clue for 8d has been changed
Oh dear sheffield hatter, I am sorry if you think I was attacking you. I can assure you that was not my intention and that my tongue was firmly in my cheek. In the past I have often argued, like you, that some setters get away with murder, while others, poor old Rufus for instance, could never do anything right. So I am absolutely on your side in this!!
SPanza @58. Sorry for being oversensitive. Is there a “tongue in cheek” emoji we could use?
sheffield hatter @59: I am sure my 5 grandchildren would know one and giggle that I did not know it. From the wonderful novel that my blog name comes, one feels that Cervantes had his tongue always planted there; so maybe a windmill!!
SPanza and sheffield hatter, a winking smiley face would do the trick, but I’d have to get my granddaughter to show me how to include it in a comment!
After about 20 years, I have decided to abandon the Guardian cryptic crosswords, as I have had enough of clues that are elitist ‘in-clues’, lazy/weak clues, or simply badly defined ones. A good, fair clue should include all the required information for the the solution, even if double encryption is involved. It should not be necessary to refer to a dictionary, and it should certainly not be necessary to be familiar with (e.g.) some obscure ‘7th century text’. Even the Guardian quick crosswords have become increasingly badly clued. This is purely my experience-based opinion; but I have better was to pass my time.
For anyone who may be interested, I found this source of a variety of crosswords and puzzles, including a chess problem: https://simplydailypuzzles.com/index.html
Fare thee all well.
As one of the absent ladies, I can only speak for myself.
I agree with Mark’s reply @45 to sheffield hatter @38. For understandable reasons, we are getting more and longer comments – and there’s nothing wrong in that but I was getting rather irritated by so many adding comments about 8dn when the error had been explained at comment 10.
One of the reasons why Nutmeg is ‘protected from severe criticism’ is the fact that, as pointed out by several commenters, such lapses are very rare: Nutmeg is one of the most meticulous of setters. The second is that, when they do occur, they are promptly and graciously acknowledged and apologised for by Nutmeg herself. The same can’t be said for all setters.
I’ve been looking back and found an example of this in puzzle 27761, which I blogged [see comment 37 – and a comment of mine @29, referring to another, in puzzle 27,605, comment 44, regarding an ambiguous clue.]
Many thanks for the blog, manehi and for the puzzle, Nutmeg. My favourites today were WORDS, LIKEN, GATHER, TACET and MOWED
Highlander @62
Which of today’s clues are you referring to? DIDEROT is the only remotely obscure answer, I would have thought.
SPanza and DaveinCarolina
I think a semicolon and a close bracket would do it – I’ll try!
😉
muffin @64 You are the Emoticon Whisperer!
Highlander @62 It’s a shame to see anybody become that disheartened and I’m sorry you’re not enjoying Guardian fare. The community here normally manage to find one or two clues to argue about in every puzzle but I can’t agree that most are “elitist ‘in-clues’, lazy/weak clues, or simply badly defined ones.” If you’re looking for something that is probably in between Guardian and the site you’ve highlighted, have you tried the Telegraph? (Which also has a blog similar to this – Big Dave’s Crossword Blog). You might enjoy.
muffin @64
I haven’t even bothered looked at today’s. My decision comes from increasing dissatisfaction with the quality of Guardian cryptics over the past few months. It’s not based upon whether I can solve the clues or not. If anything, I’ve regularly been filling in the correct solution, without even parsing the clues, because the clues are so poor, even though the definition is clear.
sheefield hatter @ 38: I find it interesting that you suggest that Nutmeg’s “favourite setter” status seems to entitle her to the special privilege of not being dragged over hot coals for a simple mistake, rather than suggesting that perhaps other setters SHOULDN’T be subjected to such behaviour. That would be much more civil, in my opinion. I genuinely really enjoy this site, but sometimes the constant harping and criticism for what are REALLY minor mistakes in a simple game, provided freely (if you have a computer), do my nut in. It’s such an inconsequential thing, and yet there’s occasionally an unwarranted amount of criticism for the smallest mistake.
I worked in videogames for over 20 years. I’m not suggesting the audience for crosswords is anywhere near as bad as the audience for videogames (where death threats for mistakes in a simple amusement are not uncommon), but it seems the same mentality exists.
Maybe let it go? It’s a mistake in a crossword. Save the vitriol for – I dunno – shambolic government, tax evasion, the destruction of the planet we all live on etc. An extra “A” is pretty low down the list of things that are wrong with the world right now.
MarkN 67. I didn’t suggest that Nutmeg should be “dragged over hot coals for a simple mistake”, I said it was “wonderful” that she wasn’t! How easy it is to misunderstand what is written down, compared to what is spoken.
…myself @68. Or perhaps I should have said how difficult it can be to explain exactly what you mean when typing rather than speaking.
I am enjoying the idea that Nutmeg’s original clue was ‘Guardin concocted non-U sort of dressing’ and some numpty typed it in wrong.
I revealed MOWED and SWORD. Such a different experience to revealing answers yesterday. The clue for MOWED is lovely, and made me regret my impatience.
sheffield hatter@38 I don’t think it’s ever the case that setters are criticised for honest mistakes – at least, I’ve never seen it. It’s what they do wilfully that makes people cross.
Thanks Nutmeg & manehi
Thank you manehi for sorting out parsing of 1A and others. I thought this was a very enjoyable crossword, surprisingly straightforward for the most part with a handful of tougher ones sprinkled around, one of which “TACET” stumped me (amusing definition which threw me completely so I never got as far as unravelling the wordplay) although I got its stablemate LENTO from the wordplay. Somehow, possibly thanks to an ex-girlfriend who studied Philosophy, I have heard of Diderot (friendly crossers helped of course) and now wikipedia tells me he was associated with d’Alembert whose name I definitely recall thanks to his ratio test. My favourite is 27A, I do like a game bird – honourable mention to the revised 8D. Thanks Nutmeg.
Sheffield hatter @ 68: If the post I referred to wasn’t sarcastic on your behalf, then IMO you really need to work on your delivery, because when you said it was “wonderful” that she didn’t get criticism it really came across as you not thinking that at all. Perhaps I’m wrong, and you were being completely sincere when you wrote that – in which case I apologise. I’m not convinced, but will leave it there.
As an Exmouth lad who went on to work in the city, I particularly enjoyed Devon Banker
MarkN @72. No need to apologise. I can see why you would have thought that I was being sarcastic.
Enjoyed solving over dinner last evening — I ticked BEFORE, WORDS, RAIN DANCE, and LENTO as favorites. I failed at RED GROUSE, DIDEROT, and TACET because they’re all new to me. The 2nd best thing to completing a crossword for me is learning something new. Thanks Nutmeg and Manehi.
Comments passim
E-messaging and the lack of nuance: discuss
Tony @75
I think our Red Grouse is similar to your Hazel Hen. I’ve heard that the Red Grouse is the only species of bird found only in Britain.
Eileen @63 thank you for pointing that out about my post @10. Time for me to get a pet peeve off my chest – lots of folk seem to have time to post here at length, and it is great that it is a thriving and largely supportive community. However, I do wish people would read other comments before posting. I frequently see comments which are either repetitions of or answered by earlier posts.
[btw is it true that the Hazel Hen migrates on foot?]
[I’ve got mixed up – the Hazel Hen is Eurasian. I’ve heard of an American grouse that migrates by walking up the mountains in spring and back down again in autumn (fall).]
[Last post on this – I might have been thinking of the Willow Ptarmigan – which is more closely related to Red Grouse.]
Thank you for that, TheZed. [I was beginning to see how Anna felt. ;-)]
I have been wanting to say what you have just said for a long time. The trouble is that the more unnecessarily repetitive comments there are, the less encouragement there is to plough through them.
Muffin @77 Thanks. My failure with that clue was not re-interpreting the word “game.” Had I done that I could have stumbled into the correct answer. Solving over dinner that includes several beers doesn’t always yield the same success as solving over breakfast with coffee.
Eileen, there is another way in which the repetition contributes to missing comments, I think. Consider this scenario: you open the site, read all the comments then go away for a while. You come back, find the last read comment, and read from there – but you inadvertently skipped a bunch because what you thought was the last one you’d read before was a lookalike that came later. I’m pretty sure this has happened to me.
muffin @77, 79, 80, 81.. Are you sure you haven’t been drinking Famous Grouse???
Mark @85
If only!
TheZed @78 & Eileen @82 Not that we can do anything about it, I suspect, but the format of the blog doesn’t help with the problem. Some blogs enable the reader to reply to a specific comment at the point in the thread that they read it. Most obviously, the Guardian’s own. Which is more cumbersome to read than this one but encourages answers to specific points and tends to see threads of linked comments kept to one place. I’ve seen some longish threads in which repetition is significant but, when I do, it’s because I’ve chosen to go down that particular rabbit hole.
Eileen @82 Joseph Heller should’ve thought that one up…
A more conventional puzzle today. My LOIs were the TACET/COURT pair, then the MOWED/WORDS pair, two of which involved the use of plural for singular synonyms (act/perfomers and argument/words), which slowed the solving process (not unfairly I might add). I enjoyed some of the neat surfaces today (those for MOWED, SHADOWED and BRENDA). MOWED in particular took some time because I hit on AIMED (anagram of MADE I) and spent a while trying to equate this with “cut”. The only clue I have a slight issue with is for IN DRAG, where I was expecting a noun or maybe adjective for “type of dressing”. “Way to dress” would be better, to my mind.
Thanks, Nutmeg and manehi. Fridays seem to be morphing into a relatively gentle puzzle day as an hors-d’oeuvre for the prize that follows.
Eileen @ 63 It seems a little harsh to take umbrage that posters are expressing their thoughts about the crossword without taking time to study every other post beforehand and only include original thoughts about each clue (and in my book a bit of repetition is far preferable to repeated lengthy posts arguing the decreasingly pertinent toss about quibbles that had little justification to start with).
Those interested in Diderot and his journey to Russia to enlighten Catherine the great might find Malcolm Bradbury’s novel To the hermitage interesting. It is where I first learned about him.
phionelly @89 re ‘the use of plural for singular synonyms’: no one has mentioned your second example [but the first has been dealt with, I think [!] – otherwise, I’d have said that Morecambe and Wise were an act.]
To have words with someone is to have an argument: to have a word [with] is usually to have a private conversation on a particular subject.
One of my pet peeves is people airing their pet peeves 🙂
On the New York Times blog, Wordplay, there are often hundreds of posts on a puzzle. Sometimes people will begin their posts with “I haven’t had time to read all the posts so forgive me if this has already been discussed.” The hostility toward “repeat offenders” can be harsh but, then again, that’s New York.
Is it just me or was there something wrong in the clue for 8 down?
😉
10FC @95. Something is definitely “up” with it!
Thanks to manehi and Nutmeg
All very good except I can’t parse 10a unless “sword first” can mean “s”.
Def includes “an” as Eileen @92 suggests.
‘Arm, first to back – an argument’
Thanks to both, but one thing is still confusing me. That is BASILIC. As far as I can ascertain, the church is a basilicA and basilic sounds like a wannabe herb. What am I missing?
Good stuff. The only thing I object to is 16D/Trattoria. Closed = to??? To = closed. No. It. Doesn’t. “Pulled to” as a compound verb means closed. That’s weak. To work backwards from ‘to’ to a compound/phrasal verb…?!
Mystogre
I thought a basilica would be basilic? I wasn’t sure about that, to be honest!
Gonzo @98, I had considered the pause – it’s not enough.
@99 and 101 the def includes “of”.
Like many ‘tacet’ got me.One letter off finishing on a Friday,having bunged in ‘tacit’ with the feeling that it could not be right.Ah well.A very enjoyable crossword so thanks to Nutmeg and Manehi.
Dansar@102, so you can parse it, but don’t like it.
Iain @100:
OED To – Expressing contact (cf. A. 5): So as to come close against something; esp. with verbs forming phrases denoting shutting or closing: see the verbs. Now archaic and colloquial.
1898 G. B. Shaw Arms & Man in Plays Pleasant & Unpleasant 6 She goes out..and pulls the outside shutters to.
@104
No, and yes.
Much enjoyed this and did it a day late so had the corrected clue for IN DRAG. I am surprised the basilic question hasn’t come up earlier in the blog. I discover to my surprise that basilica is actually a plural and the singular is technically basilic. This was entirely new to me! Otherwise I found this a pleasure for a dreary, windy and wet Sat morning on my own in lockdown. Thank you Nutmeg and manehi.
I was very pleased with myself for blazing through this puzzle, until I came to a crashing halt in the SE. For some reason, I just couldn’t see RED GROUSE, even though it was clear how the clue was supposed to work. COURT and TACET also defeated me, but I don’t feel very bad about the last one, as it’s a tricky word. All these clues are perfectly fair, so my ignominious defeat is entirely my own fault.
If I had to spot a flaw in this excellent puzzle, it’d be the ellipses joining 1dn and 2dn. (The faulty clue at 8dn had been fixed by the time I got to the puzzle.) They have nothing to do with the clues, so I assume they’re there to encourage us to combine the surfaces into one. I have no objection to that practice in general, but in this case the combined surface seems to me to make less sense than the clues do when read separately. But that’s an utterly trivial complaint.