Guardian Cryptic 28,163 by Brendan

88 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 28,163 by Brendan”

1. Quite fun. Also can’t parse 7dn. Also don’t see what “coming to” is doing in 5 dn. Some interesting plays with ABC etc.

2. So classy! And entertaining.

3. Thoroughly enjoyable with too many ticks too mention. I parsed 7d as you did Manehi, but remained similarly unconvinced.

4. Trying to solve this as I failed to get to sleep I was convinced that 10ac was LION, as in ‘heartless type shot’ being the lion without a heart in the Wizard of Oz shot on film, and ‘big game’ being obvious.

   The fact that it was the tin man that needed a heart never crossed my befuddled brain. A shame to fail a great crossword that way!

5. I parsed 7d as anagram (“otherwise”) of CAST with OR (“selection of one” – as in either/or) inside “in”. With the whole clue being the definition. Wasn’t entirely convinced. Otherwise great fun and most entertaining

6. Took ages today, probably just sluggish brain state, and I wasn’t in any rush. Thought vitaminise a bit erk, wondered about swing=slew in the 3d, and about indicator-spread in 10a (heartless applying to both type and shot), mere quibbletinos though. As for others, couldn’t parse 7d, but Jay@5’s idea might be what’s intended. And didn’t parse 26a, thinking ‘A is not an element’, d’oh. Ho hum. Loi was Hobson, neat clue. Nice ‘theme’ Brendan, ta for the exercise, and ta Manehi.

7. I think ACTORS is ACT (those in cast) OR S (one letter from CAST) & lit.

   Clever but a bit contrived, in my view,

8. …3d short for triple def, not grid ref…

9. A bit Curate’s Egg for me. Once I’d worked out what was going on, MULTIPLE and CHOICE became write-ins, which was a shame (although probably necessary on a grid where all the crossers are vowels). Some lovely chunky clues held me up after that, though, and I particularly liked APEMEN and HOBSON.

   Had INSANITY in 18d for quite a while (got as far as I = paper and thought I’ll parse the rest later), which made the SE corner a tough nut to crack. Wasn’t fond of the SLEW clue….

10. I had a slightly different parsing of ELEMENTS: A “B” or “C” with “He” and “I” all being arranged in the periodic table so a sort of CAD. Hmmm – less convinced now I try and explain it 🙂

11. I parsed 7 down as simply that Actor S would be a selection from a number of Actors. Thanks to Brendan and Manchi

12. Neatest suggestion so far, Sagittarius, but still a bit of a S tretch

13. Very imaginative cluing and a hugely enjoyable solve for me but I also couldn’t resolve 7 or 26.
    Re 7 Co-star is an anagram (‘otherwise’) of actors but that leaves ‘selection of’ unexplained.
    Thanks to Brendan and manehi.

14. One out of the top drawer.  Wonderfully inventive and clever and yet eminently solvable.

    Not sure about ELEMENTS, though.  Boron and carbon for B & C but A?  Not convinced by the ABC = elements suggestion really.

    DNK HOBS so failed to fully pasre HOBSON.

    Ticks at TEST, ACCEDE, DISUNITY, & SLEW.

    Corker, Brendan, many thanks.

15. Got a C on this 10 I 20.

     

16. Re ACTORS at 7d, there may something going on with the verbal form of CAST which is “to select one [an actor]” but I can’t quite get there.

17. Thanks for the blog, manehi.

    I can’t choose between the suggestions for 7dn – I was puzzled, too.

    Otherwise, I thought this was a brilliant exploitation of the theme, in various ways – I liked the inclusion of 12ac HOBSON and 4dn BEGGARS, for instance, along with the alphabetical ones.

    Many thanks, Brendan, for an absorbing and enjoyable puzzle. William’s first ‘paragraph’ @14 sums up my feelings exactly.

18. William @16 I was ruminating on the same idea but it seems to leave cast doing double duty and involve two indirect anagrams? Ouch!

19. [Manehi’s 26a parsing, ABCs as basics, reminds me of the migrant father, proud that his son is mastering algebra, who says “He knows his x,y and z like we know our ABC!” Not sure where that’s from..American Jewish novelist…Isaac Singer, maybe]

20. bodycheetah @18:  Hmm…so it does.  Rats, back to the drawing board.

    grantinfreo @19: Love it.  Do you chaps pronounce z as we (Brits) do or like our cousins?

     

21. Definitely zed here, William, whereas across the pond the joke is augmented in being assonant…

22. Tee-hee!

23. Looking further at the discussion on 26a, would it not be reasonable to see A, B and C as “elements” (or sub-divisions) in many contexts – of a paragraph, an argument, etc? On that reading, the periodic bit simply refers to He and I.

24. Sagittarius @23:  Yes, that’s looking promising.  Aren’t paragraphs in patent applications labelled A, B, C etc and referred to as elements?

25. Thanks manehi.

    For 7d, the letters in “cast” are a, c, t, or s.

26. My parsing for 7d was “those in cast” = ACTORS “or “a selection of one” = ACTOR’S but still a bit dubious. I did see the anagram of CAST + OR but couldn’t make it work.

27. jvh@25. That’s definitely the correct parsing. Thanks.

28. Thank you for this manehi. I was glad to see that people with brains also found 7 problematic. Goujeers (also 7) seems on the right track. I think it’s a reverse clue, where you have to read the solution as ACT OR S, leading to the clue. Still perhaps a bit contrived? I wonder if the composer will write in? The A in 26 is sanctioned by Chambers, since apparently before I was born it was the symbol for Argon. However, the clue might be better if the word “once” appeared?

    And Hobson may have been dodgy as far as horses were concerned, but he was a big benefactor for the fresh water.

29. Like many others I failed to parse ACTORS successfully. Thoroughly enjoyed the work out today with some clever use of the two themes. Clue if the day for me was BROCADE. The SE corner took a while with DISUNITY and SLEW the last two to fall.
    Thanks Manehi and Brendan

30. jvh @25: Bravo!  Nailed it.

31. You don’t realise how much you really miss Brendan crosswords until he turns up again.  It may have been ‘just me’ but I thought it was trickier than I’d have expected

    Thanks to Brendan and Manehi

     

32. Found this a real battle, but an ultimately rewarding one. I often get impatiently irritated when the solving of a crossword involves clues that require reference to other clues, and rather guessed at ESTIMATE, EXAMINED, ASSESS AND ACCEDE before parsing them once they were in. HOBSON took longer than he should have considering he was a famous part of my city’s history, but he rather nicely unlocked the SW corner for me. Thought SUGGESTION and TOOTHPICKS excellent. Don’t normally write as much as this, so Brendan definitely made an impression this morning…

33. Thanks to Brendan for the puzzle and manehi for the blog. I found this a tougher tussle than I expected, as I seemed to make some inroads quite early on and then limped through. Ultimately I enjoyed it with a couple of parses left dangling. I did appreciate the connected clues regarding multiple choice tests and A, B, C etc. Favourites were 4d BEGGARS (as previously mentioned) and 6d TOOTHPICKS. I too saw the anagram of CAST and OR as the likely fodder for 7d, ACTORS, but I think jvh@ has now nailed the parse (thank you, jvh). [And I did notice the “assonant” reference, gif@21!]

34. [Sorry, I crossed with a couple of other contributors.]

35. A brilliant interweaving of related ideas as we expect from Brendan.  17a BROCADE was particularly good, and I wonder if this clue was maybe the genesis of the whole puzzle?

    Like so many others I scratched my head about 7d, but jvh @25 thank you! – that’s clearly it.  Definition = “Those in cast”, otherwise a selection of one of those (letters) in “cast”, a, c, t or s.

    Many thanks Brendan and manehi (and again to jvh).

36. Pedantry corner – isn’t the last ‘s’ in 22a technically repeated for the third time ? Trouble with too much time on hands. Thanks B & m.

37. That was a beaut, exactly in the goldilocks zone. Well done on the parsing jvh @25 !

    Thanks to manehi and Brendan.

38. Frankie @ 1

    “coming to” = “equalling”

    Seems OK to me.

39. This was fun and clever. BROCADE was my standout clue but lots to enjoy, including as others have mentioned TOOTHPICKS and BEGGARS. Stared at ELEMENTS as the probable answer for 26ac for a while before the pdm of He and I but then still hesitated as A is not an element, but is was so clearly the answer – so thanks to Komornik for the info re Argon and to others re other meanings of elements. Like most of you puzzled by 7d, I like the suggestion from jvh@25.
    Stambridge- yes technically I think you are right, but did not notice that when completing the puzzle.

    Thanks to Brendan for the fun and Manehi for the blog.

40. Hmmm, yes, Stambridge, fourth instance ergo third repetition…

41. Well that was fun! Nice use of multiple choice type clues.

    Thanks Brendan, thanks manehi (and thanks jvh for untangling 7d!)

    I liked ELEMENTS but at the time assumed A must be a chemical symbol for something (which, as has been pointed out here, it isn’t.) Not entirely convinced by the idea that “A, B, C etc.” leads to a second definition of the word although I agree that the second part of the clue from “as periodically…” works as a fair definition on its own. Hmmm…

42. Thanks Brendan and manehi

    Re ASSESS, if you see S as an abbreviation for ‘second’, repeating it once gives the fourth (unit of) time.

43. That was the best way to waste a morning. Brilliant bit of setting. I think Sagittarius has it right with ACTORS and ACTOR S, which fits with the lettering theme and avoids the messy anagram.

44. Excellent work jvh@25 for parsing 7D. You must be correct. Not only does it work, the parsing also now ties in directly to the MULTIPLE CHOICE theme. What a brilliant clue it proved to be.

    I’m still not convinced anyone’s really nailed the parsing for 26A. None of the suggestions so far – good though they are – entirely avoid a degree of looseness or repetition that the standard of the rest of the clues suggests ought to be absent.

    27D was the one that defeated me entirely – is SLEW meaning “many” really American slang? It’s very familiar to be as a Brit, and it doesn’t feel like any kind of slang to me. Not sure what work the “US” is really doing in that case, it threw me.

    All round, an excellent crossword making full use of the opportunities for invention and hidden depths offered by its theme. (If it’s correct to call the multiple choice idea as used here a “theme” in crossword land…)

    Thank you Brendan and Manehi.

45. Slow to get started and stuck for a while in the SE corner at the end.

    Nice variety for the theme. Komornic @28 suggests the A = Argon that appears in Chambers, and maybe that was the intention.

    Clever clue for BROCADE – nicely misleading.

    Thanks Brendan, manehi and jvh @25.

46. Did anyone else have GODSON (an offer you can’t refuse) for 12 across?

47. I took a while to get going on this very clever puzzle. I loved the theme.

    Could not parse ASSES = dunces + S = repeating one part for the 4th time.

    Favourites: ELEMENTS, DECIDER (loi)

48. A lovely puzzle with much wit and entertainment. I particularly liked DISUNITY. Many thanks to Brendan and manehi.

49. David @44 Slew is familiar to me as an American, more commonly in “a whole slew of.”  Not that I know what a partial slew might be.

50. Thanks to jvh! Much better!

51. Beautiful puzzle – thanks Brendan,  and manehi.

    And above all jvh@25 – without your help I’d have missed an especially elegant clue.

52. “Those in cast, otherwise selection of one”

    Here, “one” refers to “cast”. So “otherwise selection of cast”. A cast can be the process of choosing the actors. So actors are the selection of cast.

53. Brendan never disappoints — I found this to be a top-notch crossword. I ticked many clues — favorites included BROCADE, SCREWIER, and EXAMINED. Thanks Manehi for parsing and to jvh@25 for pointing out what now looks obvious.

54. Came to this late after a busy day and thought I was in for a dismal DNF for quite a while, with an inpenetrable theme, before CHOICE popped up for me. Already having TEST (with STET and SANS my only three in for too long), I was suddenly able to make inroads. Given the ‘theme’, BROCADE was a joy, and there were many other nice clues. Like for most here, ACTORS went in with a shrug. Thanks, Brendan and manehi.

55. I found this very tough and from time to time I had to put down my pen and paper and resort to the check function on the website, something that happens maybe twice a month at most. So, unlike yesterday, way out of my Goldilocks zone.

    Great respect for the ingenuity but if one or two clues withstand the combined parsing power of 225 then something can’t be quite right. It seems to happen with themed clues and certainly tipped over to use of the archaic A for Argon, though in fairness the problems with 7d – mine too – were nothing to do with the theme.

56. Valentine@49
    Thanks for that. My point was that this use of SLEW to mean “many” is and always has been very familiar to me too, even though I’m a Brit, not American. I’m sure it’s also used in the USA, but to me it doesn’t feel like it’s specific to the USA. This is what leads me to wonder what the US is doing in the clue.

57. Surely the first definition of slew is to swing (verb) not a swing (noun).

58. I meant to end the above with a ?

59. Although I’m reasonably familiar with the periodic table, I too embarrassingly fell into the “A trap”, in fact I had thought “That’s very clever, he wrote the clue that way because A, B and C are elements but D and E aren’t”.  On reading the comments above I see that A was once Argon, so I thought I’d do a little research to see what happened.

    All I could find was the date, 1957, and a couple of comments that it was done to bring the element into line with the other noble gases.  I can see the motivation (ambiguity), but the justification seems a bit lame to me  Since I don’t think any compounds of it were known in 1957, changing the symbol wouldn’t have too many ripple effects, so there probably wouldn’t have been too many objections.

60. Highly entertaining, original and clever, although parsing was a bit of a luxury with a few clues. I’m particularly glad to find, here, the obviously correct parsing of ACTORS – a very good clue.
    I hoped to polish off the four short answers quickly at the end, but I couldn’t get any of them!
    Thanks to Brendan, manehi, jvh and other commenters.

61. David @56 The Oxford dictionaries, in defining SLEW as a “large number or quantity of something,” qualifies the definition as “informal North American.” Who knew?

62. Really enjoyed this. A good challenge. It’s nice to be able to attempt a crossword without dental pain which has not been helping recently.

63. Well, I spent far longer on today’s offering than the previous two days combined! A right tough one to get started on, for me anyway. Only 3d and 17a on first pass, showing that I wasn’t on Brendan’s wavelength at all. But slowly, slowly it managed to pull together. Also stumped on the parsing of 7d, as others were, but jvh@25, that’s spot on! Parse of the day!
    Thanks Brendan and manehi both!

64. Tom Ridge @52 I think your parsing is spot on as it accounts for all the wordplay very elegantly. Chapeau!

65. Tony Santucci @ 61

    Thanks for pointing this out. My igorance as to this is the downside of my never having a dictionary to hand when I do the crossword. Thank you for taking the trouble to check it.

    The fact I’ve always assumed that this usage of SLEW was standard English-English is presumably a sign of the extent to which American language has permeated British or at least south east English culture. (I don’t mean that as a bad thing.)

66. For ACTORS, I think it’s an anagram of cast, enclosing OR = otherwise. Apologies if someone already suggested this, I haven’t read all the comments.

67. Re. 7 dn, like most I started from guessing what the answer must be and working out why. In my case, I further confused it by taking ‘Those in’ = ‘factors’, but that just left more unnecessary bits lying around.

68. On ELEMENTS, As = Astatine so could it be a DD of ABC = elements of one kind, as are As, He and I when arranged in the periodic table? Capitalisation rather spoils it though if that is the case.

69. Top class from Brendan, LOI SLEW.

70. David @65 With instantaneous communication around the globe, differences in word usage become less pronounced. “Bloody” and “bender” are now very common in parts of the US and sometimes the two might even be used in the same sentence.

71. Very pleasant solving from Brendan.

    In 7d (not toflog a dead horse, I saw COSTAR as a possible anagram of ACTORS to refer to one of them, notwithstanding that may shows have more than one costar.

    Thanks Brendan and manehi

     

72. Thanks Dr W @59 for sending me on a journey into the history of the periodic table.

    Like you, I couldn’t find any more enlightening explanation of why argon’s symbol was changed from A to Ar in 1957, other than “all the other noble gases have two letters”.

    But I did gain an appreciation of how the shape of the table has changed through time, and may yet change again.  One of the articles I found quotes Michael Gordin (professor at Princeton and author of a book on Mendeleev) who compares proposed re-organisation of the table to Pluto’s demotion from the ranks of the planets.  “The table you grew up with is the table you like.”

    My guess is Brendan grew up with A.

    Many thanks to him and manehi.

73. I think I may have finally completed my apprenticeship. I finished this crossword without any google help, and skimming through most of the above I don’t notice many mentions of ‘write-ins’ or the word ‘Quiptic’. I thought the theme was brilliantly woven into the puzzle. Disunity was my LOI because I was looking for dusting instead of DIY for housework – is this sexism? I didn’t know all the meanings of ‘slew’. I assumed that A B and C must all be elements somewhere in the periodic table, didn’t think of ‘the basics’. I thought ‘head of newspaper’ was the letter ‘n’ but could see the anagram so I didn’t actually write the letters out to check. Couldn’t parse ‘Hobson’. Finally, ‘vitaminise’ was a new word for me but not too tricky to solve. Thanks Brendan and thanks to 225 – you taught me all I know.

74. essexboy et al

    At the time, A was used as the symbol for “relative atomic mass”, so there was ample scope for confusion.

    Even more confusingly, “relative atomic mass” is now A subscript r!

    Thanks Brendan and manehi. I found this rather difficult and didn’t enjoy it as much as most seem to have.

75. What did I think of it?

    A. Loved it
    B. Really loved it
    C. Loved it to the moon and back
    D. Loved it as much as the return of football, and that’s a lot.

    (Answer D.)
    Thanks Brendan.

76. Thanks muffin @74, my chemical education, sadly interrupted, continues!

    By the way, congrats to RaggieBaggie @73 and welcome if you’re new to the forum.

77. Very enjoyable puzzle.  Couldn’t get HOBSON  (new word of the day for me is “hobs” – never heard of it until now!)
    And until I saw the comment from jvh @25 (brilliant…) I had no clue on how to parse ACTORS.

78. Thanks to manehi and Brendan

    Elegant and enjoyable as always with Brendan but I’m not sure I fully understand 22d and 24d.

    When someone says “amen” they are speaking only for themselves – there is no “we”. Couple that with the entirely redundant “All of the above” in the next clue and I get the feeling I’m missing something.

79. Dansar @78

    22d (APEMEN): ‘Amen’ has the meaning of assent as well as the ending of a prayer, and I think ‘we agree’ is taking only a tiny bit of licence for that meaning.

    24d (SLEW): You’re right – that bit is redundant, but it also does no harm, so although the clue wins no prize for economy it gains a point for clarity in  giving the solver a hint.

    I failed to solve the latter clue, but I was in too much of a hurry.

80. Again, an ingenious piece of setting from Brendan who is a lot more around compared to, say, a couple of years ago.
    There’s not much to add at this stage but Dansar @78 made me realise that we had a little discussion about 24d (SLEW), our last one in.
    ‘We’, that is my solving partner and me.
    These days, solving means being in different places – both on paper, she using a PDF, me writing on the Print Version.

    Now look at this:
    In the Print Version 24d reads (like in the blog):
    Swing killed a lot in US? All of the above
    The PDF gives:
    Swing killed a lot in US?
    All of the above

    Because typographically there was still room after ‘US?’ for ‘All’ or even ‘All of’, it looks like Brendan has done this deliberately.
    All other clues on the PDF go on until the first line is used in an optimal way.
    So, I think the first line in this clue gives the three definitions.
    And the second line refers to the line above that one.
    Makes sense, doesn’t it?

81. Is Brendan?

    A Irish

    B Old enough to remember A = Argon

    C Not Germaine’s brother

    D Up for a laugh

    E A damn fine setter

    F All of the above

     

82. Sorry about late response, got the day wrong.

    To begin with my blunder at 26 across (“ignorance, sheer ignorance”) I somehow thought Argon had symbol A. Thanks to Manehi for a good attempt at rescue (and for everything else).

    As for 7d, jvh at 24 describes what I had in mind — A, C, T, or S is a choice of one letter from CAST.

83. @ Sil van den Hoek
    Thanks for the very interesting observation about the line breaks in the pdf version. Was there a line beak in 7D by any chance?

84. For the benefit of those who may have solved in other formats – I looked at this on the Guardian website before leaving home this morning, and solved on a phone later. On the website only “all” is on the line above, on my phone the whole clue is on one line.

    A I’m sure setters and editors are aware of such anomalies

    B They listen attentively when their grandchildren try to explain

    C They can hear their grandchildren

    D They can see their grandchilren

    E The actual newspaper editor gives a “****”

    F None of the above

85. But if, I say if, it’s like what I said @80 the clue does make sense.

    On the phone (terrible way of solving, IMO, but soit – and I know what I’m talking about, I do it every now and then but only if there is no other option – the line break can be anywhere, true.

    As one of the surviving BGs didn’t say anything about it @82, I am happy to be put back in the box.

    🙂   [that’s for those who don’t like smileys]

86. Primarily, any Brendan crossword displays excellence

    🙂  🙂

     

87. Dextral is the longest word you can make with the letters not used individually in the periodic table.

88. I thought there were too many clues with ?

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