Guardian 28,314 / Brummie

80 comments on “Guardian 28,314 / Brummie”

1. In 10 across, time is needed to change put to putt, the golfing term. Which is a bit cheeky.

    

2. I’ve just seen the theme – give me a minute or two, please!

3. Is it put+t that you do on the green (golf not my thing)?

4. A brassica and a doorman’s drink
   Cole Porter must be the link
   Well did you ever? What a swell puzzle this

   Good to see OLIGOCENE cropping up. I know that learning all those geological time periods would come in handy one day.

   The clue for PRESS, with just one action
   Would increase our satisfaction
   But I suppose
   Anything goes

   Thanks Brummie and Eileen

5. The theme is Cole Porter and some of his songs.The Night and Day alerted me to this, having heard it just yesterday on my cars Ella Fitzgerald CD. It did help with some other clues (Anything Goes) and the High of 6d prompted me to look for SOCIETY, but stupidly  didn’t spot it till last.

    

   Thanks Eileen, and Brummie for what I thought was a quite enjoyable crossword.

    

    

6. Thanks Eileen, once you mentioned there was a theme we saw it straight away. Lots of good songs there.

7. Penfold @4: delightful post!

8. As someone who almost never spots a theme I was surprised to recognise COLE PORTER and some of his most famous songs. NIGHT AND DAY gave it away for me – my favourite clue.
   For me the easiest puzzle of the week – over all too quickly. Thanks Brummie and Eileen!

9. I actually thought of COLE PORTER when I entered NIGHT AND DAY – Doh! There’s also TRUE LOVE.

   Thanks for your contribution @4, Penfold. 😉

10. Not much fun here (apart perhaps from OLIGOCENE) and some convoluted surfaces (9A, for example). I thought put+t was somewhat contrived, too.

11. I thought the money was greenbacks, but I suppose they get shortened to greens. I wonder if the second action in dePRESSed is not PRESS again, as a kind of second definition. Thank you to Eileen for explaining all the ones I could not parse (too many to list here though I managed most, and to Brummie for the mental exercise to while away a sleepless hour at 5:00 a.m. I await Eileen’s explanation of the theme with interest.

12. Sorry, crossed with all the explanations. I loved the NIGHT AND DAY clue.

13. Me @4 What a swell puzzle this is. 

14. In MyMinds Eye was the Small Faces-theStaple Singers didnt get in there and poor old Ellington is a crossword retread

    Shame this had to follow Nutmeg, Vlad and Picaroon

    Just One of Thos Things,I guess.

    Thanks Eileen

15. I think I agree with Beobachterin when she says that the second action just refers to PRESS as a verb.

    In the clue for EGGHEAD, I suspect that potentially is supposed to be read both with ‘wren’ and with ‘manifested’.

    Rather boring puzzle, I thought, even given the theme.

    Pity I’ve been so busy this week.  I understand that I missed some good ones.

    Thanks nonetheless Brummie and Eileen.

16. Maybe the build-up of coffee over the week has finally kicked in but I found this a lot easier than any other this week.   OLIGOCENE reminds me of my Geology O-Level field trip to Lulworth Cove in mid-February where it was so wet we had to write in our note-books inside a plastic bag.   I was supremely awful at the subject and just wrote “mud” for every rock type – suppose something must have stuck after all these decades.

    Didn’t get the theme – not a Cole Porter fan at-all.

    [BTW, for those not on the list(s) it is a Paul tomorrow with a Zoom session in the evening (which unfortunately I can’t make but for good choral-singing reasons).   I will be “doing” the puzzle on the train on the way up which means staring blankly at it hoping for inspiration…]

    Thanks Brummie and Eileen, all setters and bloggers for another fun cruciverbalistic week!

17. By the way, if anyone ever asks you “What is the difference between stout and porter?” you can reply “Well… Stout wrote Before Midnight, but Porter wrote Night and Day”

18. How many times am I going to miss that pound is not always money or weight?

    Got Nepal first but couldn’t see if pound was the P or L , and from either it didn’t compute.

    Is P ever used?  I am thinking GBP.

    Thanks Eieen.

    Not into themes yet, but now I know this one my pleasure in Brummie’s puzzle increased.

19. Worth it for Penfold @4 comment alone. SOP was new to me. My first Wellington/Ellington so I liked that and an interesting device to put some wordplay in the definition (put/putt). Is that rather unusual?

20. Completed without too much fuss, but like Eileen found this rather lacklustre. When first one in was NIGHT AND DAY I thought this might be a tribute to Ol’ Blue Eyes, Sinatra. Didn’t think Cole Porter. Could hardly be bothered to parse the biblical EPHRAIM which I got from the crossers…

21. A bit of a write-in until I got to the SE corner, where I struggled with EGGHEAD, SOCIETY and then PRESS (couldn’t parse). Didn’t get the theme, but enjoyed the puzzle. Thanks to Brummie and Eileen.

22. After the brilliant but tricky crosswords from Picaroon and Vlad, it was something of a relief to have one I could finish fairly quickly. The theme went over my head, but I am no expert.

    Thanks to Brummie and Eileen

23. Oh dear, I missed the theme entirely. It would have helped with LOI SOCIETY. Otherwise a straightforward solve.

    My thanks to Eileen and Brummie.

24. PeterT @19: I encountered my first (W)ellington as recently as last weekend!  But, on searching Fifteensquared, I see it has popped up in precisely this way on quite a number of previous occasions.  I guess each appearance will probably be a first for someone; we all have to beguine somewhere.

25. Has anyone mentioned ANYTHING GOES yet?
    Thanks for parsing SHOPLIFTER (I didn’t know SOP either, let alone that it was an officially recognised abbreviation) and PRESS which I didn’t get at all.
    I liked the potential wren.

26. I was taught never to use wordplay to build a definition. And GOLF GREEN is not in most dictionaries, except in Merriam-Webster, where it’s a colour (it is in the OED though with a hyphen as equivalent to golf-links).

    Duke ELLINGTON did play NIGHT AND DAY.

    I quite liked the clues for NIGHT AND DAY and SOCIETY.

    Thanks Brummie and Eileen.

27. gladys @25 – see comments 4 and 5.

28. The online puzzle is not the final edited version. Clues for 9, 10 and 27 ac. and 23 dn need to be corrected.  Not sure if the paper version is affected. FWIW, the correct clues are:

    9 Make pro say ‘going west’ (5)

    10 Where one may put, given time, car by village area? (4,5)

    27 Intellectual Wren potentially owned Round House’s east wing (7)

    23 Crowd downcast with no action outside (5)

    Right, now back to the heating problem in my flat …

     

    I’m rather tied up with a heating problem at the moment, but hope to post the correct clues later.  Does anyone know if the print version is different?

29. Mostly straight forward, tho technically a DNF, as accidentally revealed PRESS near the end, and can’t say for sure I’d have gotten it on my own. A couple DNPs too, so thx, Eileen, for sorting those.

    I guess “given time” should be part of defn? Don’t care for the construct, as the clue lacks a real defn (even a cryptic one), being 2 parts wplay instead.

    Also guess all of 8d is defn?

    Re manifested/had, think that’s in the sense of a disease or illness?

    I don’t groc “no matter what”=ANYTHING. That phrase is used *in* some of the dictionary defns for the word, but is not by itself the defn? Wonder if the clue is meant as some sort of extended defn and we haven’t sussed it yet? Seems kinda clunky, barring further elucidation.

    My fav had nothing to do with the theme: SAGAN, for a fine clue with a nice misdirection.

    Nods to setter/blogger/commenters.

    [ Tony Santucci, thx for yesterday’s pointer to the GOZO FT puzzle… quite enjoyed it! And left a comment if your interested. ]

30. MaidenBartok @16 – thanks for the information: I’d been thinking it was Paul last Saturday – how time flies!

    [Lucky you to be singing (properly) tomorrow. I shall be singing along at home to the RSCM Big Christmas Carol Service.]

31. Ignore those last two sentences.

32. I found the top easier than the bottom, and agree that some of the southern clues were quite contrived – could get them from crossers and definitions but not parse. Missed the theme even though I was on the lookout (and I quite like many of the Cole Porter songs included). Thick or what. Still, after getting absolutely nothing on the first pass through a puzzle earlier this week (not saying which, but I abandoned it straight away), it is nice to finish this. Like gladys @25, I enjoyed the potential wren once I saw it. Thanks, Brummie and Eileen.

33. Thanks Eileen. Spotted the theme which helped with SOCIETY (rather stupidly I had earlier thought to myself ‘council, synod, soviet hmm any others’ but not taken that thought further). However a DNF with an unparsed force bunged in instead of forge. Agree some retreads (ellington mangoes). Another unaware of SOP. Thanks to Brummie

34. Brummie @28 – many thanks for dropping in and clarifying: it all makes much more sense.

    I presume that your post @31 means that you have found out that the print version is the same as the online: I used the online version in the early hours and solved it over again, after a sleep, when my paper arrived. (And still missed the theme. 🙁 )

    All the best with the heating!

35. I totally missed the theme but didn’t really care as I found this joyless. I agree with Eileen, that this was lacklustre, so well done Penfold@4 for cheering me up. I liked SOCIETY – presumably it refers to Stalin’s five-year plan. As a keen player, GOLF GREEN just sounded wrong. Thanks for parsing SHOPLIFTER Eileen (and the rest) and Brummie.

     

     

     

     

     

36. Thanks for the corrections, Brummie… it must be very frustrating to see thing published incorrectly (then witness the resulting confusion) 🙁

    Whatever else has been (or will be) said here, hope you get your heat back quickly!

37. AlanC @35 – to be fair, I hope I’ve made it clear that I’ve revised my initial judgment in the preamble but I could hardly rewrite the whole thing.

38. Porter’s song “Fresh As A Daisy” is a celebration of similes. One of them is “Green As A Golf Course”.

39. Thanks, BobW – I hadn’t heard of that one.

40. Brummie@29

    In my paper the clues are the same as the ones on-line ao not corrected.

    I usually find Friday’s very difficult and after yesterday’s disaster (for me – didn’t know lots of the neologisms) was rather dreading today. But I thought it was a good mixture of clues though I had to use the check button for some. I had wondered about the given time in the golf clue – very clever.

    And I have never seen the Duke Ellington clue – but got it straight away from a couple of the crossers and my dad being a firm fan.

    Couldn’t parse a couple – so thanks for the blog

    Thanks to Brummie and Eileen.

41. Sadly, I agree with the start of Eileen’s second paragraph (though I understand her view has been revised by dint of theme – not for me I’m afraid). A shame since, were I to classify the objects of our addiction, this setter’s puzzles would usually be in the section marked ‘fun’. Not so today but I enjoyed SOCIETY.

    Many thanks both and all.

42. Sorry Brummie @28 (not 29)

43. Well! Only actual melodic recall from the era is the Duke’s Tuxedo Juntion…da dum daah, dum daah da da, da dum daah. Post Jerome and pre Cole? Probably wrong. Hey ho, the privation of a Schubert and Brahms household. Once Lennon, McCartney, and then Mick and Keefy, arrived, the tide turned.

44. William  F P @41 – not just the theme: see also Brummie’s amendments to some of the clues @28.

45. I got the theme, once I entered ‘anything’ and ‘goes’ and managed too,find ‘Cole’ and ‘Porter’. There my knowledge of the aforementioned ran out, which is poor as I saw a production of ‘Anything Goes’ on the stage in London with Elaine Paige in the lead.
    The crossword itself was a relief after a couple of days staring at blank grids.
    I parsed most but ‘shoplifter’ was a stretch too far for my small brain.
    Thanks Eileen for the hints and Brummie for the challenge.

46. Another phrase that bubbles up is “What a swellegant, elegant party this is”. Did anyone sing that, or is it just a brain, er, exudation?

47. Some unnecessary negativity here, especially given the setter’s appearance in the comments. Plenty to enjoy, even without spotting the theme. 10a was a clever device, 14a a cracking anagram, and 18a’s definition neatly misled me, even though I feel sure I must have seen something similar before.

48. gif @46 Well, Did You Evah? (High Society)

49. Bodger@47 I agree. We can be a very demanding lot, at times.

50. grantinfreo@46 – It’s the last line of ‘Well, Did You Evah’, the Sinatra-Crosby duet from High Society.

51. I liked the putting construction in GOLF GREEN, but isn’t it a bit of a cheat in this context, since the clue now has two wordplay parts and no definition?

52. I really enjoyed this, although certainly less of a challenge today. I only searched for the theme after Eileen mentioned it – and then of course it was so obvious! I actually sometimes prefer to miss a theme, which, for me, can take away from the fun of wrestling with each clue individually. I thought the PUT(T) device very clever. Is N for Newton a recognised abbreviation or just using the first letter device again? Thanks to Brummie and Eileen.

53. trishincharente@52: Newton is the SI Unit of force, and N is an abbreviation for this.

    I’m in the “enjoyed this one after staring at blank grids for two days” camp. 14ac particularly nice for me. Thanks Brummie and Eileen.

    I did spend a while post-solve trying to figure out if “Hellraiser” meant “choplifter” somehow. Also had “sleeping in” for 3d for a while which kept me from seeing where the anagram in 18 went. Is “sleeping on” a UK idiom for sleeping late or is this just “verb + on” as “continued to verb”? For 4 I thought “what astronomer could possibly be so famous as to go in a crossword puzzle” and when I got it I said “oh that one.” I took an obscenely long time to figure out the ingredients of the anagram in 25ac even though I knew it ended in -ocene; kept thinking “temperate” was part of the definition.

    I’d only ever seen 16d as two words, and found out that it’s the name of one of the Aubrey/Maturin novels which I’m reading now (but only in the US I think). Went back to see if there was an Aubrey/Maturin theme to the puzzle and spotted the actual one. I think 2 and 24 were even my FOI.

54. Just like trish above, only saw the theme when prompted by my first glimpse of Eileen’s comments, and a very fine theme it is too.

    Brummie must be so frustrated: not just one clue printed wrongly but four. At any rate it explains my diffidence in entering PRESS and with the P, SHOPLIFTER would have been a write-in – despite the (to me) utterly obscure SOP for the partner. Brummie trying a bit too hard there.

55. A few I couldn’t parse but got with a little help from Google (I was kicking myself for SAGAN), and I ended up with FORCE (another synonym for ‘make’!) rather than FORGE.

    Surprised we’re at 2pm and the Guardian still hasn’t updated its clues on the web version. Rather poor.

    Thanks Brummie and Eileen.

56. FWIW, ‘Well, Did You Evah’ is also available as a duet between Debbie Harry and Iggy Pop. Worth checking out.

57. Thank you Matt w @53. I had an idea N might be something like that. But will I remember it next time?!
    For SLEEPING ON I took it as ´not immediately thinking about’ as the definition, as in I’ll sleep on it. And ignoring the alarm clock (question mark) as the cryptic bit. Could be wrong though.

58. For what its worth, I agree with Dr. WhatsOn @51

59. trishincharente @57 – that’s how I interpreted SLEEPING ON, then I decided to call it a double / cryptic.

60. [Eileen @30: We’re socially-distanced in St. George’s Bloomsbury, no audience but being recorded.  Have tried a few of the virtual singing things but dislike them intensely – luckily, we’re “semi-pro” so we get away with some of the rules; as with everything with this hapless government, if there is money involved somewhere, they’ll turn a blind-eye to the law…

    It’s actually a triple-clash for me tomorrow – Dr John Cooper Clarke is live-streaming from 5, Paul on Zoom and the singing!  Enjoy the RSCM gig!]

61. Astronomer for Sagan is fine, I suppose, and a great influence: but he died some time ago, while the eccentric genius on two wheels is still with us. I didn’t understand SHOPLIFTER this morning, and the notes here (thanks Eileen) just show what a difficult one it was. Amazed by the number of people on the Guardian site this morning who (i) found it easy (ii) didn’t mention the theme.

62. Brummie’s corrections above are a great improvement, why don’t the guardian update the internet versions??

63. Just to let you know: the crossword editor confirms the correct version was sent to the Guardian system in good time. Unfortunately, he’s travelling today and  can’t do anything until he gets home to his computer.

64. trishincharente @57, Eileen @59–you’re both perfectly right about the straight definition and the cryptic–it’s just that when there’s something I can almost explain but not quite I often assume it’s an idiom I’m not familiar with! “sleep on” for “not pay attention to” is current in the US, and I can understand “Kasya slumbered on” (from Sielanka by Stankewicz, apparently) with no trouble, so it’s really my fault for not getting that one.

    [Komornik–do you mean Stephen Hawking? Sadly he left us in 2018, and he was a cosmologist rather than an astronomer; my brother is an astronomer of the “does measurements with telescopes” sort so I’m attuned to the difference!]

65. Even though I missed the theme I thoroughly enjoyed this crossword until I met my downfall in the SW corner. I could not get SHOPLIFTER, PRESS, or FRILLY. That aside I liked FORGE, GOES, NIGHT AND DAY, SAGAN, ELLINGTON, ADENOIDS, and TRUELOVE. I never heard the term GUMSHIELD even though I’ve boxed recreationally for nearly 20 years — in the U.S. they’re called mouthpieces. Thanks Brummie for the fun and to Eileen for the blog.

66. [OddOtter @29: I just read your comment on the blog for the Gozo crossword — quite impressive bit of knowledge you have!]

67. matt w@64 and Komornik The other Sagan is a cyclist. Whenever someone refers to an eccentric cyclist I am reminded of the trick bikes with eccentric wheels we used to get at fairs.

68. Apart from the obvious accidental repeat at 23, Brummie’s original clues have not been simply misprinted but partly rewritten by someone. Who and why?

69. Loathed this from start to finish – poor clues, obscure answers!

70. I was held up by putting ‘Home Office’ which seemed very satisfactory although ‘penthouse’ was redundant in the parsing.  As I had failed to parse several others – and thanks Eileen for all that – I didn’t linger over my answer until, baffled  by GOLF M_E_N, I had occasion to consult Mrs Job to check my crossers.

    Some years ago, I was visiting an elementary school in upstate New York, in the vicinity of Cornell University.  I was admiring a beautifully illustrated project on the universe, and when i congratulated the young author, she remarked that her Grandfather was an astronomer.  Returning her project to her, I glanced at the front cover.  Her surname was SAGAN.  A brish with greatness indeed.

71. I am another who has not had time to catch up with most of the Cryptics this week. Favourites were ELLINGTON, TRUELOVE, GOES and SOCIETY. Had not heard of OLIGOCENE, but managed to get it from the clue. Was confused by PRESS until BRUMMIE explained the error picked up on by Eileen. Many thanks to Brummie (who I hope is toasty and warm now) for a lovely Cryptic and to Eileen for the Blog.

    [Got the the theme, and a huge Cole Porter fan, which did help. I loved the contributions about it from Penfold@4 and Blaise@17. Simon S@ 46 – yet it’s a great cover version. Link here -not for the fainthearted. Does beat selling insurance…. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjejqJVUYOU ]

72. Anyone else try PIES (SPIES minus S) for 21?

    I enjoyed the puzzle, but missed PRESS and SHOPLIFTER.  Thanks for the edits, Brummie.  Makes more sense now.  I liked the double wordplay device in 10 (GOLF GREEN) and in fact, quite like the online version of this one.

    Missed the theme, sadly, but I have the compensation of the ANYTHING GOES earworm :o).

    Thanks, Eileen (for the fiendish SHOPLIFTER parse particularly) and Brummie.  Sorry you had to suffer the Grauniad Gremlins.

73. Late to party as usual but wondered if NEPAL was included as it has a lot of porters? Since I failed to parse it (forgot that meaning of pound yet again), this bit of themish logic helped me write it in.

    Sorry Brummie that you had to experience the errors in your crossword. They did not spoil my enjoyment as I just assumed there were setting tricks I would find explained here! Thanks Eileen too.

74. Thanks to both and I am in the “relief camp” after the last two days. Loved the potential wren. Totally missed the theme, despite my last in being COLE, but missing the theme is not unusual for me.

    [OddOtter in reply to your Gozo post. In New Zealand! Old Mans Beard is the clematis which escaped from gardens at least a century ago and now smothers many native trees and bushes. Controlling it is quite a problem. ]

75. Ta, Penfold @48 and Mycat @50, enjoyed that!

76. I did wonder about NIGHT AND DAY when “day and night” is the more natural expression, unless referring to the song by COLE PORTER (doh!). So, there was a theme?

    Enjoyed the ‘potential wren’ very much; in fact any infelicities, whether accidental or as a result of someone’s error beyond Brummie’s control, would be forgiven for just that one clue.

    Like others I found SOP a stretch too far when trying to parse SHOPLIFTERS, and I was still short of 23d and 28a at this stage. After spending a pleasant afternoon otherwise engaged and with the crossword forgotten, I returned at 8pm and wrote both answers in with barely a further glance at the clues. So it goes. In retrospect, I thought both PRESS & SOCIETY were excellent clues, even if the correct versions of some clues were not printed in my copy of today’s paper. (The second ‘action’=alt defn is fine by me, and ‘about to replace five’ was cunningly hidden.) Putting HIGH and SOCIETY together would make a good song title, no?

    I feel sorry for some of the posters above who found themselves in the grumpy corner today; I’ve been there myself this week and know how it feels. Just keep plugging on and your day will come.

77. Petert@67: Ah, for me the second-most famous Sagan is Françoise who wrote <i>Bonjour Tristesse</i>. The cyclist would’ve had me grumbling about things Americans haven’t heard of.

78. 10.30pm and unfortunately the xword editor still hasn’t managed to correct the on-line version clues. I wonder if setters sometimes submit preliminary versions? And that on this occasion the updates to same didn’t get through the “system” in time?

79. Thanks for explaining SHOPLIFET, Eileen.  SOP was new to me too, and I never thought of it.  What put you onto it?  Thanks for the blog, however it happened, and thanks to Brummie too.

80. I’ve just been back and noticed that five of the clues have been amended. Personally, I preferred the original for 9a.

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