Guardian 28,375 / Vulcan

101 comments on “Guardian 28,375 / Vulcan”

1. A very nice start to the week. Held up at the end by AXLE, which frustratingly took a long time to solve, compared to the rest. I liked TO DIE FOR, DOMINANCE, PURCHASING POWER, RED ARROWS, USED CAR and the sad WIDOWED. I hope this sets the tone for rest of the week. Ta Vulcan & Eileen

2. Nice and easy this morning which was a real shot-in-the-arm (for which, I am hoping soon… please!) as last week was a bit of a mental mauling for this newbie.

   23a seemed particularly apt! Agree with Eileen that there were some lovely anagrams in there today.

   Thanks Vulcan and Eileen for the fun.

3. MaidenBartok – yes, there is a topical reference in the Wiki entry.

4. Would it be daft to think the “I” in 23d represents an axle?

5. So mush easier than last week, which had me struggling daily. I enjoyed 23ac but realised it was a word I have never written down.

6. Yes, a very nice puzzle for a Monday. Like Eileen and MaidenBartok I thought the anagrams were particularly fine (DOMINANCE and HARD CASE especially). Many thanks to V & E.

7. So nice to have a ‘Monday morning’ puzzle today. Thanks Vulcan and Eileen.

8. [Eileen @3: Yes, I saw! Despite thinking of myself as a Southender, I was actually born in Gravesend which has the dubious accolade of being the point where the line of graves from London after the Black Death ended (although this is only one possible explanation of the name.]

9. 23dn had to be AXLE, but I can’t see how that’s a cryptic definition.

10. John Wells – I agree: I meant to add a question mark – I’ll do that now.

11. Yes, a pleasant puzzle with smooth surfaces until we got to the ‘road sorely in need of repair’; clearly the cause of the temporary traffic lights, often mentioned by Eddie in BBC sitcom ‘EARLY DOORS’.

    Thanks Vulcan and Eileen

12. Re: DISCOURAGE. In fact there have been two recent cases of almost identical clues for this, both in the FT. One by Buccaneer (no. 16,699) and one by Leonidas (no. 16,704).

13. [In France, if you’re on intimate terms with someone who sneezes, you’d say “A tes souhaits” (to your wishes). Topical, but probably false etymology]

14. Does quite really mean completely? I thought it meant almost completely which means the clue would have to read … almost almost completely.

    Also having difficulty with AXLE which is normally outside a car.

    Otherwise a pleasant Monday puzzle

15. Favourites: LAST SUPPER, WIDOWED, SATAY, DISCOURAGE, GOLD MINER, ATISHOO, QUIT (loi).
    New: RED ARROWS, EARLY DOORS.

    Thanks, Vulcan and Eileen

16. A proper Monday crossword! AXLE (LOI) perhaps less convincing.
    Thanks to Vulcan and Eileen.

17. There have already been some comments about AXLE and I have to add that I think that clue lets an otherwise good puzzle.
    Not only is it barely cryptic but it is also surely incorrect.
    The axle and wheels are found ON the car not IN it.

18. Pedro@14 – is not “quite” one of those words (like cleave or sanction, for eg) which can embrace opposite meanings? As for 23d, I asked my question @4 because, otherwise, I could not read this as a cryptic clue. Thanks all round to setter and blogger, as always.

19. One of those two-edged words, Pedro@14. eg: Are you QUITE finished?

20. Lovely start to the week apart from furry tongue putting me off my breakfast. Super anagrams especially 16a where I spent some time wondering what a shop that sells guns was called. Thanks Vulcan and Eileen

21. Pedro@14
    If I said “I quite agree with you”, would it not mean “I completely agree with you”?…….but, of course, I don’t.

22. TerriBlislow @4: …and if you change the font, you get a wheel at each end! 😉

    gsolphotog @17: in (the assemblage of bits and pieces that makes up) the car, the AXLE is engaged in an intimate relationship with the wheel(s). I think it’s a great clue.

    I liked 22a as well, but I don’t think I’d buy a USED CAR from Vulcan.

    Many thanks V and E.

23. Very pleasant, Eileen’s opening comments pretty much cover it.

    MaidenBartok @8: Never thought about the derivation of Gravesend…that’s really rather sobering isn’t it? Over 20 miles of graves and no hope of a vaccination back in the 1300’s. The world has lost around 2½ million lives through Covid whereas it is estimated that the bubonic plague resulted in more than 200 million! Makes you glad time travel is not (yet) with us.

    Many thanks, Vulcan.

24. Pedro @14 Quite? When I was a teacher I would often ask the class who had finished the work and be greeted by a chorus of ‘nearly’; I would always respond that ‘nearly’ means ‘not finished’. Pedantry is, of course, part of the job description for a teacher.

    Having said that 4dn took me far longer than it should have done.

    Lovely puzzle, thanks Vulcan and Eileen.

25. A very nice start to the week. My favourite was actually DISCOURAGE, although I see now that it’s been done before.

    What’s wrong with 23d AXLE as a cryptic definition? In the surface reading we’re supposed to imagine a driver talking, and in the cryptic reading it’s the AXLE itself addressing us.

    And Eileen, in 5d why is it an odd definition? In modern usage if you’re conflicted about something you’re IN TWO MINDS about it.

    22d gives me an excuse to ask: what language do Liverpudlian hairdressers speak?

    Many thanks Vulcan and Eileen.

26. Thanks Vulcan and Eileen
    A pleasant puzzle; no-one has said it yet – easier than the Quiptic (which our resident Doctor might like to look at).
    AXLE is just wrong. “The wheel” in a car is the steering wheel; cars have at least three wheels. Also, ATISHOO doesn’t quite work, as you need two of them before the children fall down.
    Favourite was RED ARROWS.

27. [Lord Jim @25: we’ve been HERBIVORE 😉 ]

28. I am another who enjoyed this, especially those clever anagrams as Eileen commented. I agree with essexboy that Axle is a fine cryptic clue. The cryptic element come from the more common meaning of ‘taking the wheel’ and as essexboy says, the axle is clearly a component of the car and so in it.

    I was parochially pleased to see SATAY defined as a Malaysian dish as Indonesians would think otherwise. But the version of satay most often found outside SE Asia is the style developed in Kajang, not far from where I live.

29. Lord Jim @25: 22d gives me an excuse to ask: what language do Liverpudlian hairdressers speak? Do say.

30. Thanks for replies re QUITE

    You’re all quite right of course in common usage (‘it is quite dead’). I’ve always taken the term as a slightly sarcastic way of saying ‘more than nearly’ though. However I’ve now bothered to check dictionary which does indeed confirm that it can mean completely.

31. [William @29 – URDU, of course!]

32. essexboy @22: perfect explanation of AXLE as to the definitions of in and on.

33. Hi Lord Jim @25 – well, well! It seems I haven’t come across the modern usage. I was about to write that I would use ‘conflicted’ of an issue, not a person (I’d say I was undecided or uncertain) but I thought I’d better look it up and found, in Chambers ‘conflicted: (of a person) struggling to reconcile contradictory impulses’ – perfect definition of IN TWO MINDS! That’s definitely my thing learned today – thanks for that. I’ll delete my query.

34. More praise from me for this straight forward puzzle, especially the anagrams as I had consecutive ticks for 14, 16 and 19a. AXLE perplexed me, otherwise everything fell into place. Thanks to Vulcan and Eileen.

35. Lord Jim @25 (& muffin): Doesn’t work with Liverpudlian – more Brummie.

36. [William @23: There are other possible derivations of the name that have nothing to do with plague but it is sobering to remember that Kent was hit very hard and many villages were lost – all over the county you can see what look like isolated churches which would have been the centre of a once thriving village. It is also interesting to note that following the plague it was Canterbury that was one of the seats of the Peasants’ Revolt with Wat Tyler marching from there to London to demand social reform.]

37. Lovely puzzle

    WIDOWED made me laugh. Also liked DISCOURAGED, WATCHING, ATISHOO, OPINE.

    Thanks to Vulcan and Eileen

38. Fiona Anne @37. You obviously possess a dark sense of humour! 🙂

39. Thank you to Vulcan and Eileen for an enjoyable puzzle and explanations. 16a PURCHASING POWER was very helpful for the solve. I liked 12a WIDOWED and 1d LAST SUPPER (already mentioned by others), and 20d DREADS. I had not heard of 15d EARLY DOORS althought the anagram was obvious. I appreciated the elucidation by Penfold@11 regarding a sitcom of that name so I looked it up and now understand that it is to do with visitors (and as I read further, or theatre goers) who arrive early. Thank you to William@23 for those interesting stats regarding COVID vis a vis the Black Death. I’m afraid I really don’t understand any of the chatty exchanges about Liverpudlians and Brummies.

40. As others have said, a good start to the week. The seven anagrams aided a quick solve, and the surfaces were mostly delightful.

    I ticked WIDOWED, EARLY DOORS and, yes, AXLE, which I thought was a pleasing clue, notwithstanding the debate about whether it is ‘in’ or ‘on’ a car. Muffin @26; wouldn’t cars have at least four wheels if you include the steering wheel. ?

    Thanks Vulcan and Eileen.

41. [Pedro @35: you might change your mind if you listen to George Harrison singing Beware of Darkness at the Concert for Bangladesh. And what about Paul McCartney rhyming “her” and “aware” in I’ve Just Seen a Face:

    And I’d have never been aware
    But as it is I’ll dream of her]

42. @39 Julie, Liverpudlians make no distinction in pronunciation between “stair” and “stir”, “fare” and “fur”. They drop h, too. So “Urdu” = “hair-do”.

43. My ? @40 was supposed to be 😉

44. Thanks, Eileen.

    Julie in Australia @39 – I wondered whether “early doors” had travelled. There’s a nice piece at worldwidewords.org about its origin: http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ear1.htm

45. Very decent Monday Vulcan this. I enjoyed the anagrams and my only taking-on-faith was that DUDS were clothes.

46. I didn’t finish this puzzle because I can’t for the life of me see how AXLE works. I hope we can all agree that an axle is an inanimate object outside the pages of a Stephen King novel…
    The excellent clue for URDU more than made up for this though.
    Thanks to S&B

47. AXLE and QUIT were my last two, from this pleasant crossie. JiA @39 – I was equally puzzled by EARLY DOORS – obvious from the crossers and fodder, but a totally (i.e. quite) meaningless phrase – to me, at least. Miche @44 – not to Australia! Thanks, Vulcan and Eileen.

48. [Since some are uncomfortable with the clue for AXLE, how about an alternative:

    Central shaft with C-framed pistol-grip metal-cutter in Essex? (4) ]

49. AXLE was one of my last in (along with two other four-letter words, QUIT and HERD), and for me it fulfilled the purpose of a cryptic clue: it was initially impenetrable, then suddenly became obvious (except to baerchen @46 – commiserations). On the other hand (essexboy @48) I cannot believe that people in Essex pronounce hacksaw like that.

50. I might be imagining it, but I thought there was a bit of a theme in this puzzle. Herd, gold miner, dudes, arrows, all suggested “Westerns” to me.

51. sh @49: …but they do pronounce axle like that 😉

52. RED ARROWS, EARLY DOORS, and ATISHOO. were all new to me, on this side of the Atlantic. I needed Google for ATISHOO; I knew you all said something other than “Ashes, ashes,” but couldn’t remember what. The others were clear enough from the crossers. And I think we say “*of* two minds” over here, which is what I had at first. AXLE was also my last one in and a long time coming.

53. [essexboy – in that case, shouldn’t your clue read “C-framed pistol-grip metal-cutter with central shaft in Essex”? ]

54. [mea culpa – or possibly may a cow pat]

55. muffin @31: Love it!

56. @sheffield hatter
    Thank you for your commiserations. I’m delighted for you that this clue fulfilled its purpose.

57. [Lord Jim @41: Although I agree that aware (and beware) would have the the ending like ‘er’, I’m not convinced (as an adopted scouser) that a first syllable would be treated the same way. I shall have to wait till the pubs open again and ask ‘arry to say it 🙂 ]

58. Maiden Bartok “no wine left in your birthplace” (9)

59. [copmus @58: Thank you! Love that. I can assure there is plenty of wine left in my living place…]

60. baerchen @46 (and 56): I’m not sure I follow your objection to 23d. Is it that an AXLE, being an inanimate object, would hardly talk to us, and refer to itself as “I”? I think this sort of clue is loosely based on traditional forms of riddles, dating from Anglo Saxon times, in which the answer (which is often a lifeless object ) does address us in the first person. In Victorian times they were popular in the form of “My first is in… but not in…”. Don’t we fairly often see crossword clues like this?

    Apologies if I’ve misunderstood you.

61. Yes, a lovely, straightforward start to the week, good to rebuild confidence after last week’s frustrations. I’m pleased to have gotten most of the anagrams in my head.
    Is WIDOWED the saddest crossword clue ever?

62. Should not a cryptic clue have two parts: wordplay and definition, or perhaps double definition? I see no point in a clue which gives only one (incorrect) definition like AXLE here. There is no satisfaction in solving such a clue and no assurance that the right answer has been found.

63. [Many years ago when I was in a jazz band that toured Germany a lot, Saturday or Sunday lunchtime sessions were (and I am sure still are) called Frühschoppen, ‘früh’ being early and ‘schoppen’ being loosely translated as a glass with (a lot of) wine or beer in it. None of your wimpish midday starts there; we are talking 11am! Anyway, we always called them Early Doors gigs but they are not quite ‘synonymatic’, are they?]

64. Trevor Bench-Capon – a cryptic definition is a standard type of clue where there is no wordplay. The “incorrect definition”, as you call it, is just an off-beat or perhaps whimsical allusion to what will hopefully become clear is the right answer. I’m sorry you got no satisfaction from solving this clue – I’ve had that experience before with this type of clue, but in this instance I had a real “penny drop moment” and, unlike you, I was sure I had the right answer.

65. @60 Lord Jim…
    Yes, that is precisely my objection. The clue has attracted a few comments which ordinarily is a fairly clear indication that the setter has laid a bit of an egg. No harm done, onward.

66. I enjoyed this especially the anagrams. But doing back puzzles I found the delightful anagram for “foresight” in Oct 12’s cryptic. (I won’t give it away.)

    [Only a week and a day to my first covid shot! I”m old enough that I shouldn’t have had to wait that long, even in disorganized Connecticut, but it’s an improvement on my earlier appointment three weeks later than that!]

    Thanks, Vulcan and Eileen.

67. One of the better Double Spocks as, thanks to essexboy, I’ve now come to think of them, though I can imagine the half-Vulcan struggling with the logic of AXLE, which, for a moment, made me wonder about a Guns and Roses theme. Thanks Eileen for the debunking of the Black Death theory.

68. blaise@13 It seems a lot of languages have something onomatopoeic to say when someone sneezes, Bless you, Gesundheit and many others I am sure.

69. Maidenbartok @8. I hate to ruin a nice etymology, but as a fellow Gravesendian I think this is apocryphal. Gravesham (‘home of the reeve’ or ‘place at the end of the grove’?) appears in the Domesday Book, and it would be a strangle coincidence for the plague graves just to happen to end in Gravesham.

70. I didn’t have the penny-drop moment for AXLE but I don’t think it was the clue’s fault.
    [re the Essex pronunciation of ‘acksw, I well remember a linguistics class where I was asked, as a native Londoner, to say “castle” and “bottle” aloud so that the class could hear the “carsw” and “bo’w” pronunciations, complete with glottal stop in the latter case. I talk a bit posher these days.]

71. Petert @68 where’s the onomatopoeia (“on a mat up ‘ere” – remember that one?) in bless you etc?

72. I thought this was a lovely Monday puzzle, and my last one in – Axle – was a favourite. Sat staring at it for a good long while before the penny dropped, and then it absolutely had to be right. FWIW, I’m fine with the clue at face value, but if you’re querying whether the cars axles are “in the car” or “on the car”, I’ll point out that the steering wheel itself is mounted on an axle inside the steering column, and that’s definitely in the car.

73. Straighforward for the most part and enjoyable — thanks Vulcan. I needed a look-up for ATISHOO, a foreign word to me. I liked TO DIE FOR (nice surface), DREADS, and URDU. Thanks Eileen for the blog.

74. DD@68 They both sound a bit like someone sneezing, as does a tes souhaits. Funny how the German sneeze sounds so much more robust than the English and French.

75. …and then there’s the flywheel, which by definition must have an axle. Definitely inside the car, even if not the saloon part of it, but to be fair, probably not in Vulcan’s head.

76. [TitusCarus @69: My excuse – I left Gravesend when I was 9 🙂 I guessed it was apocryphal and Wikipedia says as much but it still makes for a good story.

    Just please don’t bust my bubble that Pocahontas died in Gravesend…]

77. AXLE In the car, I take the wheel

    I thought this was along the lines of a patronising Victorian turn of phrase such as:
    
    In the zebra, the leg has the hoof

    The I, as someone suggested earlier, looks like a stylised axle and this would take the wheel.

    Could be completely wrong, however.

    Thanks Eileen and Vulcan

78. I do like your idea TerrBlislow @4 re AXLE. It pretty much saves the clue for me. [When I first visited the States I kept saying I QUITE liked this and that, which got me into all kinds of misunderstandings.]

79. Very enjoyable puzzle with lots of clever anagrams. Like most “axle” and “quite” last ones in.
    What a nice change from last weeks impossibles – for beginners like me that is.
    Thanks very much Vulcan and” blogger.

80. The 23a/d pair also had me stumped. As @52 mentioned the line “Ashes, Ashes” is more common over here. I still decided it must be a nursery rhyme variant, so decided that perhaps “Heighho” would work. Then 23d became “helm” which fit the take the “I take the wheel” part but puzzled me about the “in the car” part. Of course, the check button caused it to all fall down.

81. Wouldn’t mind hearing from the setter what was on his mind re 23d, which I solved with an alphabet trawl and found disappointing as a clue. A shame, as the rest of it was quite fun.

82. My main issue with AXLE is that it seemed barely cryptic, but from other people’s opinions here it seems like that’s just the way some minds work – and possibly why it’s proving a little divisive. Nice start to the week though, at least for those of us that enjoy (or in my case need) an easy Monday – WIDOWED my favourite mostly as it’s a riddle that can happily exist outside of crossword-land. Ta all.

83. Nice gentle start on a Monday. Glad to see I wasn’t the only one flummoxed by AXLE…

84. Perfectly pitched for my cryptic skill level – only the AXLE got me stumped.
    Thanks to V & E.

85. Doesn’t the axle take the wheel(s) in a car i.e. the wheel is put on the axle?

86. Sar @85. You’re right. Works for me as you read it.

87. I didn’t spot the significance of (gold) rush in 25 across at first, and wondered why they were apparently in such a hurry.

88. Muffin@26 Thanks!

89. This solver thoroughly enjoyed this, not least because I rarely finish. I didn’t understand AXLE either but it had to be that.
    Thanks both.

90. VinnyD@52: As an American RED ARROWS would have been a mystery to me if I hadn’t seen them do a flyover at Nationals Park in DC prior to a baseball game in the summer of 2019. They, of course, were in precise formation and coloured exhaust trailed from their jets. A sight like that tends to cement their name into ones brain.

91. Ideal Monday puzzle. Thanks Vlad. My only contribution to the AXLE discussion is I only got it after thinking ‘is this a pangram’ with two clues left. I I was sure it was right once the X helped me see it. Sadly my LOI STIGMA did not include a J! Thanks for blog Eileen which I’m enjoying in my Tuesday am.

92. Phew! A proper Monday crossword to be polished off in customary Monday style.
    I don’t know if anyone has seen today’s Letters, but Simon Drew was complaining about either how hard Guardian crosswords are getting or how stupid he was getting. Join the club! We thought that most of last week’s offerings were not our cup of tea at all. Here’s hoping for this week.

93. Thanks for all the comments.

    A good day, I think. Vulcan is not yet in the top rank of my favourite setters – I’m still struggling to reconcile him with Imogen, whose puzzles I usually enjoy – but this was one of the best of his that I remember and it was good to see that it went down well here. Even AXLE, although controversial, didn’t seem to cause too heated a debate – I haven’t understood all of it so I’m with Sar @85 and Xjpotter @86, so I stick with my parsing.

    [It’s late, so few will see this, so I’ll take the liberty of indulging myself: several of you have expressed appreciation of 12ac, recognising the poignancy of the surface, which had particular resonance for me, with a significant anniversary this week. Thank you, Vulcan 😉 ]

94. I’ve been a bit bemused by all the discussion of AXLE, because as I’ve said in my various comments above, I think it’s a perfectly straightforward, and good, clue.

    But thank you Eileen for drawing attention back to 12a, which deserved much more credit – a beautiful, and very sad, clue.

95. acrossthepond@80, you are not alone. I, too, had HEIGHHO and HELM as my 23s. But then, I’m from across the pond as well, so ATISHOO is foreign to me.

    Apart from that dnf, I thought it a nice puzzle, with the excellent anagram at 16a PURCHASING POWER, and the beautifully sad WIDOWED at the top of my list. I also liked 1d LAST SUPPER.

    Andrew Roberts@61, Re WIDOWED, sad, yes, but perhaps not quite the saddest. There was the famous Araucaria crossword by which he announced his terminal illness, including clues such as cancer, oesphagus, palliative care, etc. That puzzle brought tears to my (and many others’) eyes as I was solving it, and afterwards.

96. Eileen, we crossed – I posted before seeing yours @93. The reminder still resonates.

97. Is it me or is the AXLE discussion going round in circles?

98. cellomaniac @ 95

    Even more poignant was Araucaria’s valedictory puzzle, which had as one of the solutions TIME TO GO.

    I don’t think that was the post-announcement one themed around desserts (which I thought was astonishing for someone who was basically unable to eat), but at this remove I may well be mistaken.

99. In the US, we definitely don’t have that version of 23. One of the many things I’ve come to accept about doing British crosswords.

    Anyone else unhappy with “for scraping”? I get what it’s saying, but doesn’t feel like it grammatically works in the cryptic reading.

    Also here in the US, it is very much “of two minds”, not “in two minds”, so I was a tiny bit thrown by that.

    Thanks Eileen and Vulcan!

100. I initially thought of atishoo for 23ac but dismissed it due to the mention of children falling down, whereas the rhyme clearly says we all fall down.

101. I guess it’s a good thing most of the stuff that confused me was either new or new-ish? RED ARROWS, WATCHING brief, ATISHOO (I guess it had to be some odd spelling of ‘achoo’ but I’ve only ever heard about the ‘ashes’ variant over here), and EARLY DOORS. SATAY and ABOUT TURN are a bit unusual (is the latter more often replaced by ‘about-face’ over here?). AXLE was my LOI because I haven’t much encountered the the riddling first-person in a cryptic.

     That said, I did enjoy WIN-WIN, WIDOWED, DISCOURAGE, DREADS, and DUDES (which really should have been easier for me to get than it was).

Comments are closed.