Guardian 28,512 / Picaroon

52 comments on “Guardian 28,512 / Picaroon”

1. As for last week, I took a look at the four-sector grid and groaned. It got worse, for then I noted that there was a theme (I’m theme-averse), and worse still the theme was around rock-culture (to which I’m doubly-averse). But having nothing better to do, I pressed ahead with jaw set grimly.
   To my surprise the two left-sector puzzles fell quite easily, and the top-right puzzle was not much more difficult – it’s always a sign of good clues when can solve though lacking the GK.
   Finally I came to the SW sector, and therein (to my surprise) came all the most arduous challenge of the puzzle. Left with just 28A and 25D, I stared long and hard at these, with little progress. Having guessed the probable (but baffling) anagram letters of 28A, I finally resorted to arranging them in likely combinations to see if anything made sense. When I got to SISYPHEAN I thought I might have seen such a word decades ago. Mr Google then provided the ‘yes, it’s-OK’ eureka moment, and 25D became obvious (but what is that ‘once’ doing in the clue?).
   So I really enjoyed the overall challenge, during which my mood had changed from gloom to gaiety. Thanks Picaroon, for luring me into your deceptive little maze.

2. When the first of the thematic entries went in I thought the theme might take me beyond my GK, but I was pleasantly surprised to find that the setter must have chosen the most well-known bands or musicians to feature here because I have heard of them all, and in most cases heard them.

   NEEDLE was one of my last in, as I fell into the trap of thinking it must be an English group. I later twigged that The Needles meant that feature off the Isle of Wight – one that I know well and should have thought of sooner.

   An enjoyable puzzle throughout with many quality clues.

   Thanks to Picaroon and mhl.

3. Thanks mhl. My heart sank on first inspection because I thought the theme was going to be modern entertainment groups of which I am woefully ignorant. I needn’t have worried, even I am familiar with Neil Diamond and the two Richards. I wasn’t sure what ‘bird’ was doing in 24 but suppose it improves the surface. The top half went in readily but the SE corner took some more time. LOI was AYR I’m ashamed to say, A_R didn’t leave many options but I just couldn’t stop thinking it had to be some sort of abbreviated anagram.

4. Wasn’t The Needles a Scottish rather than English band?

5. Dan@4 yes indeed – that’s what caused a rethink for me for that clue.

   I loved the puzzle, and while it wasn’t exactly easy it caused me less trouble than Picaroon’s non-prize offering from yesterday, curiously. Not sure that OUTLIER=maverick (30a) exactly from a definitional point of view, but practically speaking they tend to overlap so close enough.

6. A very enjoyable puzzle from start to finish as far as I was concerned, with a fun “music rocks” theme! Uncannily, this was published two years to the day since I was lucky enough to attend a concert from the greatest rock and roll band in the world 19a25a, in New Jersey! A peak experience! Hadn’t heard of the Needles (either the band or the rock feature) but no matter – some things I learned last weekend! Favourites aside from the obvious pairing mentioned above (with the clue cleverly referencing Jumpin’ Jack FLASH) were 21d LEXICON and 25d SAYERS. Just not sure that either CLIFF RICHARD or NEIL DIAMOND could be clasified as rock musicians, but it was very clever of Picaroon to make the thematic link with cliffs and diamonds! It is interesting to note that Keith (“Keef”) RICHARDS changed his surname to RICHARD for a period in the 60s and 70s and then changed it back, some said for fear of being mistaken as a relative of Cliff – though the actual true reason for the reversion remains muddy.

7. Whoops – where’s my manners? Many thanks to Picaroon and mhl.
   [BTW, here’s a Picaroon riddle: How much does a pirate pay to have his ears pierced?]

8. [rodshaw@1, just to explain the “once” in the clue for 25d SAYERS, the monolith ULURU was originally named after a Premier of South Australia, Henry AYERS, but was changed back to its indigenous name out of respect for and recognition of the original inhabitants of this land].
   [Me@6: I was going to say “remains muddy waters” at the end of my comment but thought that was a bit too much]

9. I thoroughly enjoyed this. Thanks Picaroon and mhl.
   rodshaw@1 Why ‘once’ in 25D? On the surface, Picaroon might have simply been referring to the fact that Uluru was ‘formerly known as’ Ayers Rock, at least in most non indigenous people’s memory, named in 1873 by an explorer after a SA Govt leader, But it was known as Uluru in Pitjantjatjara before that and recognised again in 1993, Technically Uluru/Ayers Rock is a dual name in Northern Territory toponymy, so don’t know how you answer the question there, one in a pair?

   JiA@6, Yes, my first reaction was that I wouldn’t define CLIFF RICHARD and NEIL DIAMOND as rock singers, but when I went back over the clues I saw that Picaroon only defined them as singers. Made me laugh and appreciate Picaroon even more, both for his skill and taste in music.

10. Thanks mhl. Flowed pleasantly from the Christian rock onwards. But there were a couple of beaut diversions – the English rock group and the spy novel rocker. Excellent, Picaroon,

11. I have to admit that when I saw the clue for 12ac, I said to myself it will probably be some ancient rock band like the Rolling Stones, and then I got to 19ac! I love the Rolling Stones but they hit their peak 50 (or more) years ago. I was lucky to see them in concert in the 1970s when I was a teenager.

    Liked RUMINANT, TAVERN, LEXICON, SAINT PETER, ENAMEL, Courtlier.

    New for me: AYR port town; do bird (also do one’s bird) serve a prison sentence.
    [bird from rhyming slang birdlime ‘time’.]; The Needles (band); Dorothy SAYERS (writer).

    I was wondering if 2d AD + DEN (earth?) + rev of MUD; and did not fully understand the ref to ‘number of England fans’ in 27/22 but I knew of the Neil Diamond song. Thanks to google for clarifying that bit of football/soccer trivia.

    Thanks, both.

12. [JiA, Hadn’t seen your post@8, away too long with Pitjantjatjara, a smattering of which I was fortunate to learn once in linguistics at Uni. I think every Australian should be exposed to Aboriginal languages and not just a word here and there. The grammar is challenging, and as with any language, the culture and ways of looking at the world so embedded. It is an enlightening experience and humbling experience.]

13. Thanks for the explanation, Julie@8, I guessed it was something like that.
    I think the rock in that wonderful ‘Picnic at …’ movie was part of the same formation?
    I’ve seen the movie several times, and like most folks am still struggling to find the inner significance of it all.

14. [Thanks paddymelon@12 for also posting re Uluru. It is my dream that all Australian schools will include local indigenous languages in their curricula one day, despite the linguistic challeges. It is such a breakthrough that Australia Post is issuing guidelines to include traditional indigenous place names in postal addresses and is launching updated packaging to include Acknowledgement of Country and a dedicated Traditional Place name field in the address panel. Julie in Gubbi Gubbi (Kabi Kabi) Country]
    [And additonal thanks, pm@12, for your clarification regarding Picaroon’s good taste regarding singers vs rock singers.]
    [michelle@11, I was also lucky enough to see The Stones in Australia in 1973 when I was 19, and can I tell you that the New Jersey Concert in 2019 proved to me that they’ve still got it!]

15. [rodsahw@13: we crossed. “Picnic at Hanging Rock” is set at Mount Macedon, part of a formation in Victoria not far from Melbourne, whereas Uluru is near Alice Springs in the Northern Territory (the “sacred heart” of Australia). Yes that ending of the film still baffles me too but some have suggested that it references the indigenous notion of Dreamtime/The Dreaming in terms of the disappearance of the girls and their teacher.]

16. I thoroughly enjoyed this one, although there was a point towards the end where I thought the grid was going to beat me, with its isolated top right corner still blank and with with both across entries part of the same clue. But once I saw how the clues worked I got there, and – like all the others – when I did work out each answer, it was with an appreciative “ah, that was neat” rather than an “OK, I guess that does work, more or less”. It was tricky in places, but very satisfying, and the rock theme was cleverly played.

    I had no idea Sweet Caroline had become a football anthem, and was quite surprised, after the event, to find all the YouTube clips of it. Thanks for the education, Picaroon, and thanks mil.

17. Thanks for the blog, one of my least favourite grids but did not matter here, the different uses of rock were subtle and imaginative. Will just praise 12Ac and 28Ac out of many, 16D the only damp squib.
    Biggles @ 3, the phrase – she is a RARE BIRD – means she is quite eccentric, the bird is needed.
    Keith S , with limited knowledge I am sure it is the cricket where they sing Sweet Caroline, I remember being surprised hearing it on the wireless .

18. Michelle @ DEN=EARTH are both names for the home of a fox.

19. Enjoyed this although didn’t get AYR right and couldn’t parse a few.

    NEIL DIAMOND and SWEET CAROLINE (made me smile) were my first ones in

    Pleased I remembered PETER = safe – so SAINT PETER was another one I got early.

    Also liked STRENGTHS, SISYPHEAN (loved the link to ROLLING STONES) TAVERN

    Thanks Picaroon and mhl

20. A nice puzzle, but surpassed comfortably by yesterday’s cryptic, I thought, which must be in ‘Puzzle of the Year’ territory. NEIL DIAMOND and SWEET CAROLINE were a lot of fun, not least because my wife still dissolves into giggles when we reminisce about some chap doing The World’s Worst Karaoke version of that song.

21. Thanks all. Much enjoyed. Themes so neatly and concisely entwined. Loved the mix of rock and middle-of-the-road. No crooner quite picked! Somehow failed to parse the LOO of LOOPHOLE. Maverick for OUTLIER seemed fine to me. Latter is geological term for a rock layer that does not conform. Might maverick be too?

22. Enigmatist clued NEEDLES with reference to the Scottish band at the very end of last year and it prompted plenty of comment. For no good reason sacking frontman of the Family Stone, a Scottish rock group (7)

    KeithS and Roz: Sweet Caroline was associated with the England football team during the Euro 2020 championships played earlier this year. It was first associated with sport at the Boston Red Sox in the 90’s. It’s been associated with football on and off over the last decade but took off when stadia were opened up to fans in June and July. (There is a lovely quote from Frank Skinner who penned the unofficial England football anthem, Three Lions, “I felt like we’d beat Germany and lost to Neil Diamond in extra time.”). Final comment on the subject – betraying my shameless snobbery when it comes to sport: apparently Sweet Caroline has been such a success because the words are easy for football fans to learn. Whilst the rugby fans sing Jerusalem! Countenance Divine, Satanic mills and all…

23. Found this morning that I had 8 solutions scattered down the right, so used a bit of guess and check to knock it over. Nho The Needles but the others were mainstream [Mrs ginf insisted on buying the Diamond double album immediately on seeing (pace Al Jolson) The Jazz Singer, which is still somewhere in the cellar. Is it rock? Not really]. Adding the other names .. St Peter, Clay/Ali, Sayers .. made it a curious mixture. Quite fun though, thanks Pickers and mhl.

24. Mr PostMark @ 22 there is no way I have heard Sweet Caroline at a football match but I have definitely heard it on Radio 4 when the cricket is on , several years ago , whilst waiting for the more interesting shipping forecast.

25. Thanks, Picaroon, for a very entertaining puzzle, and mhl for bringing out more references to the themes than I worked out – I missed Black Sabbath entirely, for instance.

    It was the SE sector which I found hardest, having been deceived by the connection between Sisyphus and rolling stones, and missing the link between crown and teeth in ENAMEL. Also, needed to look up the (very long) list of writers to identify SAYERS before the ‘rock once’ became obvious.

    Clever of Picaroon to get NEIL reaching out and touching CAROLINE at the letter I. KeithS@16 and Roz@17, the number has become a theme at sports other than football – at Nottingham yesterday, I heard supporters of the England cricketers against India singing it (pity about the standard of singing, cricket and weather). And shows its use extends to other countries too.

26. Came back to finish the last few clues this morning and like rodshaw @1 I just went through different combinations of SYSIPHEAN until it worked. As others have noted, a slick juxtaposition of NEIL DIAMOND and SWEET CAROLINE. Second time in a week we see bird = time. Must store that one away in my BIRDBRAIN. PM @ 22 I liked your reference to Frank Skinner and Roz @24, I must confess I’ve belted out SWEET CAROLINE along with the GAWA at many a Northern Ireland football match.
    [JinA, I had the pleasure of seeing the ROLLING STONES at the Greenwich O2 in 2017 and they were as wonderful and ageless as ever. I climbed Uluru in 1990 and now feel guilty about the endeavour but as a Brit, I was totally ignorant of the significance at the time].

    Ta Picaroon & mhl

27. SISYPHEAN even…

28. …and bizarrely whilst writing this, boxing promoter, Eddie Hearn was on Sky News claiming that SWEET CAROLINE was first sung at boxing matches.

29. I must admit that my heart sank after an initial glance at the clues, with all the (apparent) references to ‘rock group’ and ‘rock singer’, but I should have known Picaroon would be more subtle and witty than that. There are seven uses of the word ‘rock’ in the clues, but not once does it actually refer to rock music, except in the surface. The only rock group defined as such is the group of rocks known as the Needles on the Isle of Wight, as mhl quite rightly pointed out in his blog, and none of the three singers in the grid are defined as ‘rock singer’.

    I did have my doubts about the definition for HARD (in Little RicHARD), as I couldn’t see it as a ‘kind of rock’, more a variation in quality; so perhaps mhl is right that this is in fact a reference to the music genre hard rock, though it would appear to be out of step with the other clues featuring ‘rock’ if so.

    I also felt that the clue for SISYPHEAN was a little unfair, as the punishment given to Sisyphus was to push a (single) rock up a hill repeatedly, not a number of stones, but I suppose the adjective could be extended to a number of people each with their own stone! But it was clever misdirection for Picaroon to make it look like a reference to a song or album by the 19, 25a, and also to eschew a reference to 27, 22 being a song by 18, 16a.

    Thanks to Picaroon and mhl.

30. Roz @18 – thank you for explaining. I did not know that about foxes.

    [Julie@14 – I saw the Stones in Melbourne, Australia in 1973 when I was 14 years old. I went with a schoolfriend, and my other friends were not given permission to attend the concert so it was just us two]

31. [Thank you sjs@25 and AlanC @ various, seems to be quire widespread which is a good thing really.
    My pleasure Michelle, I was called Fox the other day on an FT blog, must be that alto-collect thing.]

32. Filling in crossword grids daily, to be on your own, with no direction home, like a complete unknown, like a rolling stone.

33. Bravo Picaroon for a superb puzzle.

    Saint Peter was a write-in, “…thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church..’ link

    The various other forms of ‘rock’ emerged at a pleasant pace – very nicely done. I stumbled at the end wanting to write in DEMIGOD for 21d (fits the crossers and one part of the clue!) I explored thesaurus to find synonyms for vocabulary, only to find… LEXICON. So a bit of a cheat at the end.

    Nonetheless a very enjoyable puzzle, renewed hat tip to Picaroon and thanks to mhl for the explanations and to all the learned contributors for adding to the experience.

    [ref S—-T C———-E, I used to quite like this in a ‘late on at a wedding’ kind of vibe. Then a few years back my (adopted) home town football club (Reading FC) decided to use it as an intro tune for games. I cannot think of anything less likely to inspire footballers to play well than this! Maybe England need a different number too]

34. [How about – I can’t stand up for falling down – ?]

35. Very clever and enjoyable puzzle, cheers Picaroon and thanks to mhl for the blog. Did not know of The Needles (love the pix of them/it) but always happy to learn something new – one of the reasons to do crosswords (and to visit this site!).

    Thanks Michelle for explaining BIRD = time in and Roz for DEN = earth

    [Julie@7 – I presume the pirate’s price is per piercing, eh?]

36. Another fine effort from Picaroon, who is reliably excellent at this crossword setting lark. I know Roz and others don’t much care for a good surface but for me they add to the pleasure of solving, and there are some great ones here – notably 8,10 and 27,22.

    I was completely foxed by 12ac, though I know the rock formation well, and I’m now kicking myself for not getting it (never heard of the Scottish band other have mentioned though). I just got a mental block, wanting to put BEATLE in that space, but the D ruled that out as a possible solution, and it didn’t fit with the second part of the clue either. Anyway, that was the only one left unfilled, everything else went in eventually (ENAMEL bring my LOI).

    Only thing I didn’t like about this was the awful grid, but luckily all the 3-letter answers came easily, which made it more straightforward.

    And thanks mhl for the blog, especially for going to the trouble of embellishing with references.

37. Sheffield hatter @29 – I think you’re being unfairly picky on the Sisyphus thing. The allusion is obvious enough to anyone familiar with the myth (and if you’re not familiar with it, it won’t help much whether the stone is singular or plural).

38. Michelle @11 – agreed on the Stones peaking 50 years ago. Exile was the last great record they released, it’s been steadily downhill since then. Unfortunately, I was born 7 months after Exile was released, so never got the opportunity to see them in their prime. Chiz.

39. [Yes yehudi@35, it’s a buccaneer!]

40. [JinA , you probably know this already but Picaroon is called Buccaneer for the FT crosswords, well worth a visit ]

41. One more thing I just remembered… when I saw “Number of England fans” in the clue, my immediate thought was STELLA ARTOIS…

    Not being a follower of the national team, I only became aware of the Sweet Caroline connection to England football very recently when Chris Hawkins played it on 6music during the Euros. Pleased to see such a topical reference in a crossword though – not nearly enough of them generally.

42. widdersbel @37. I was familiar with the myth, so I suppose I was being a little picky @29, but I think light-heartedly. It was good misdirection, and I note that a couple of commenters have said they only got the answer by trying all combinations of the letters until a word appeared, so it appears to have been a tricky enough clue whatever the number of stones may have been. 🙂

43. I had almost none of this done ahead of time, needed to creep through checking one letter at a time. Enjoyed it, thanks mhl and Picaroon.

44. OK, sh, I’ll let you off if you were being lighthearted!

    As for the trickiness of the clue, I’d say it’s one of those “it’s easy if you know the answer” types…

45. Quite tough, especially with the difficult good, by very satisfying to solve.

    I put NEEDLE from def but had to have the “rock group” explained to me by a fellow solver and kicked myself for not realising earlier.

    Mhl, “Peter” was always criminal slang (also meaning a prison cell as well as a safe), so unless you habitually associate with safe-blowers and jailbirds, you’re unlikely to have heard it much lately anyway. The same goes for “bird”(-lime) = time (served in prison), although I think that one is better-known amongst the law-abiding, even outside the world of crosswords.

    I thought of three meanings of “Jersey” in considering 13ac (state, island, pullover), but not the right one — until I picked RUMINANT out of a search list.

    Julie @7, that would be a dollar per ear, I think?

46. difficult *grid*

47. I had lots I was going to say about various aspects of this puzzle, but I find that all my points have already been made. So all that’s left is to say is that this was a superb puzzle, with beautiful surfaces and a near perfect use of the “rock” theme. Thank you Picaroon and mhl, and a special thanks to all the commentators for the blog that was almost as enjoyable as the puzzle itself.

48. What cellomaniac said.

49. I struggled to get into this one fearing lack of rock knowledge but needles the band was only new one to me. Got there in the end though and some nice clues.
    Thanks both

50. Timmy, The Needles isn’t a band but a rock formation off the Isle of Wight, as mentioned in various places above.

51. Fell a few short on this one. Lack of Greek myth meant I couldn’t solve the anagram & missed NEEDLE & ENAMEL also as well as being unable to parse a couple more. Enjoyed the puzzle & theme nevertheless.
    Thanks all.

52. What cellomaniac said: superb puzzle.

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