Guardian 28,528 – Nutmeg

92 comments on “Guardian 28,528 – Nutmeg”

1. Many thanks to Nutmeg for an engaging puzzle, and to Andrew for the blog – particularly for parsing 11 Across, which had my brain in knots!

2. Liked: UNCLOTHE, MENTION, CONGENITAL.

   New: Don River – various in Canada, Australia, UK (7d).

   Did not parse: MILES PER GALLON apart from P = parking. Oh I see now that it is very clever!

   Failed 22d BEAR.

   Thanks, both.

3. Thanks Andrew for construing REFORMATION for me. Does that make sense: construing= explaining (ref 13d)?

   Other motoring terms, perhaps too vague, TRADED UP, CRUISE?

4. Thanks, also Nutmeg for another enjoyable Xword

5. Great little crossword. I really struggled to parse MILES PER GALLON, and CONGENITAL but when the penny finally dropped I decided they were my favourite clues.

   Thanks Nutmeg and Andrew.

6. Third one so far unable to parse MILES PER GALLON – very good – and couldn’t see how REFORMATION worked either. Like michelle @2, I had trouble with 22d and it was my last in. I was fixed on ‘Sound’ being the def and just about gave up before seeing things in a different way. My ‘go to’ DON River is the one in Russia, as in “And Quiet Flows The Don”.

   Favourite was the non-homophone indicator definition ‘they say’ for SPEAKERS.

   Thanks to Nutmeg and Andrew

7. Lovely puzzle. Having CON and a couple of crossers I immediately thought of CONGENITAL, but like yesyes @ 5 it took me some time to parse it. MPG was great, as were DOLLAR and IN RUINS. Many thanks to Nutmeg as ever, and to Andrew.

8. Trouble is had an MG and it was the bane of my life. It was an MGF. Had it been an MGB then Morris Garages would make an acceptable sports car. Great clue but nearly all were..
   Thanks Meg and Andrew

9. Very slow going on this one, and I couldn’t see several of the longer ones even with all crossers (CONGENITAL, COGITATING, PATENTING) And of course I couldn’t parse MPG either. I enjoyed some of the shorter ones more (probably because I got them): MIRACLE, IN RUINS, UNCLOTHE.

   I guessed WALLY for the muggins, but only Nutmeg knows for sure.

10. Thanks Nutmeg and Andrew
    Very nice. Favourites UNCLOTHE and LOI BEAR. I didn’t parse 11a either.
    A criticism of Chambers rather than Nutmeg, but it’s a bit of a step to get from “from birth” to “complete”. A congenital idiot is one who has been an idiot since birth, not necessarily a complete one.

11. We had WALLY for some sort of fool very recently.

12. me @11
    Sorry, it was in a Radio Times crossword.

13. Ditto re the Don, WordPlodder@6, and the movie was an absolute 9-hour epic, spread over three nights.

14. Thanks both. Whizzed through most of this, then hit the wall with the last few. Add me to the MPG failed parsers.
    Not sure about 14a ANTI, “regularly” could mean any number. I suppose it was clear enough in this case.

15. Didn’t figure out the MPG wp from the answer. And failed miserably to solve BEAR (having convinced myself that “empty stomach” yielded SH so was looking for the sound of silence!).

    As usual, Nutmeg’s a pleasant challenge!

16. Some very neat surfaces – 10a, 18a, 13d particularly appealed.
    Some clever anagrams – THREE-POINT TURN, CONSTRUES.
    A couple of interesting devices – 14a and especially the very clever MILES PER GALLON.
    But utterly failed to get CONGENITAL; like Muffin @10 I really struggle with congenital = complete, Chambers or no Chambers.
    Enjoyable on the whole. Thanks both.

17. Same failures as above mentioned.

    Only now have worked out how taking the 1st, 4rd and 7th letter off is regular.

18. Grid filled ok, but not too flash on the parsing front today. Bit more headscratching should’ve twigged P in MG, and reversed Latin eg, but did remember helping=ration which went round reform. Wondered about congenital for complete. All good, thanks both.
    [copmus@8, a mate had an MGTC, headlights on stalks, bit of a classic, but yes he spent a bit of time with bonnet open]

19. Not on Nutmeg’s wavelength at all today. About half went in easily, then I ran aground… MPG completely bamboozled me.

    Didn’t help myself by putting in LISBON for 9ac – it kind of works if you accept S for “Spanish gent”. (You might see S for señor on the door of a men’s toilet in Spain, right? Ok, maybe not.)

    Thanks Andrew and Nutmeg.

20. If you really want to believe there’s a motoring theme, 17 down has the M1 and the RAC…

21. NeilH @16 et al: I think that, commonly, the phrases, ‘congenital idiot’ and ‘congenital liar’, are used without there being any prior clinical investigation of whether the traits of untruth or idiocy can be traced as far back in the individual’s mental history as birth. In these cases,, ‘congenital’ is (mis)appropriated from its literal meaning and simply acts as an intensifier; so ‘complete’ seems fine to me.

22. Nutmeg again. Superb again. I keep trying to find different ways to say the same thing about her puzzles.

23. Elegant as ever from the Spice Girl. Like others I had several parsing failures…

    I’m with muffin @10: ‘complete’ = CONGENITAL is just wrong. Someone could be described as a ‘prize idiot’, but that doesn’t mean that ‘prize’ = ‘complete’. I’m beginning to have doubts about the principle ‘if it’s in Chambers it’s legitimate’.

    Thanks Andrew and Nutmeg (but don’t do that again!)

24. Thanks for the blog, 1AC … 4AC .. oh dear my heart sank. Perhaps I should post much later when the standing ovation has died out.

25. widdersbel@19 Another LISBON from me too, until I checked it

26. I parsed 8D incorrectly as PING around A TENT, which amused me and failed parsing another couple, although I did eventually work out MPG from staring at it for a bit and when I came back to it, couldn’t see how I didn’t get BEAR. An entertaining puzzle, thanks to Nutmeg and Andrew for the blog.

27. My experience much like quite a few others – MPG, congenital = complete? – including a DNF due to BEAR (I really must remember to check I have all the answers in before opening the blog). Thanks, Nutmeg and Andrew.

28. Thanks Andrew for the plausible SALLY suggestion (I was a wally and no doubt still am), also MPG as I also had no idea where that came from, though surely MPG is derived from the full phrase and not the other way round?
    Not helped in NW by same error as widdersbel@19 and Dave Ellison@25 from the same reasoning, and CONGENITAL was my last from parsing the first half and a big guess, but relieved that my bafflement is not unique. Nice to see dessert = PUD after yesterday!
    Anyway I found this challenging (eg ANTI which took a while to justify), with slow piecewise progress reliant on new crossers, and enjoyed it so thanks Nutmeg.

29. Given the recent discussion on GD about indirect anagrams, I even wondered if 9ac could be an anagram (‘liberal’) of SEÑOR. Of course we’d need one more letter for the fodder… perhaps W = working is in Chambers? (well, if T= town why not?) That could give us SNOWER – might that be a US state capital? Third boxcar, midnight train, destination Snower, Maine…

    Thanks for the fun Nutmeg & Andrew.

    [Gazzh @28: ‘piecewise progress reliant on new crossers’ – that’s how I always do it!]

30. Another MPG parsing failure with CONGENITAL being the loi. I only had CRUISE in on my first pass but then it opened up from the SE, then SW, then NE and finally NW. Many thanks to Nutmeg and Andrew.

31. I didn’t think some of the definitions were quite as sharp and convincing as Nutmeg’s normally are, and the minor typo in 26ac rather made me feel that things weren’t quite in perfect focus today. Last one in BEAR, after much scratching of the head. Hadn’t come across CONGENITAL as Complete before…

32. I found this difficult and got several from the description and use of aids but could not parse them. Did not finish as did not get REWORK or BEAR (duh).

    SPEAKERS, EFFLUENT, COGITATING, PATENTING made me smile

    Not sure about REFORMATION = improvement – not always.

    Thanks to Nutmeg and Andrew

33. Oh dear, another in too long a line of pitiful efforts.
    I wonder if I actually have the brains for this. Still, there’s always tomorrow.
    Thanks both.

34. Most enjoyable but failed to parse MPG and BEAR. Great clues.

    Copmus @8; mine was an MGB and it too was the name of my life!

    Many thanks, both.

35. … @18 .. ration round eform of course (have to rescue neologisms like eform from the dreaded autobot [and that too] thingy)…

36. 2d is not a reverse…

37. Steady solve trying to unpick Nutmeg’s super surfaces.

    I, too, didn’t seen the MG, but I like it! Other ticks went to BEAR, CONGENITIAL (despite the definition), UNCLOTHE, PATENTING and CONSTRUES.

    [I had an MG Midget, which was great until the floor rusted through.]

    Thanks Nutmeg and Andrew.

38. A propos THREE POINT TURN, never quite understood the term. Looking at the imaginary pattern left on the road by such a manoeuvre, it would surely have 2 points, not three. Anyone?

39. William @38 – I couldn’t agree more. Maybe write in to the DVLC?

40. Three point turn wasn’t in the driving test I did in the 60s, and I’m not sure it ever had been. The instruction was always “turn the car in the road”.

41. William @38 is it because in the manoeuvre you are facing in three different directions i.e. Points?

42. Widdersbel @19 and Dave Ellison @25, I also had LISBON, which I thought was an equally valid solution till I had the crossers. However, Chambers has Sr for Señor and nothing similar for S, so to continue the Shearer theme from yesterday I guess we have all been Nutmegged.

43. Is capital c in 15 a bit of a stretch for rhyming slang? Just saying….

44. It is really a three leg turn, others are possible. I do not think it has ever been an official term. As Muffin says , but for the 90s , – turn the car in the road.

45. William @38: since you end up on the opposite side of the road from where you started, your imaginary tracks would have to cross at the top, leaving you with a rather nice deltoid, wouldn’t they?

46. A pleasant puzzle with some elegant touches, nothing too stretching.

    I enjoyed EFFLUENT, MILES PER GALLON and PATENTING.

    I think the puzzle numbering at the head of the blog contains a typo – thought you should know.

    Thanks to Nutmeg and to Andrew for explaining ANTI

47. After solving CONGENITAL I doubted the definition, and while Spooner’s catflap @21 has a semi-convincing explanation, I also agree with Gervase @23 about the flawed logic of ‘complete idiot’=’congenital idiot’, therefore ‘complete’=’congenital’. However, “it’s in Chambers” 🙂

    In the word play for 11a, ‘derived from’ is misleading if attempting to parse it by working back from the solution MILES PER GALLON to the word play (P inside MG), because of course MPG is ‘derived from’ the full phrase, not the other way round; but as a clue it actually works perfectly.

    My last one in was BEAR, because Nutmeg once again misled us with ‘sound coming from’ – very clever!

48. Enjoyed that. I don’t generally enjoy ‘fill in the blanks’ and retrofit the answer type clues, which are often just very tangential definitions with obscure internal synonyms, but MILES PER GALLON was worth the effort, although it took me a long time to see it. Came here to check my understanging of 14 ANTI, which uses a device I haven’t seen before.

    Many thanks to Nutmeg and to Andrew for the blog.

49. Ark Lark @46
    Thanks for the heads-up, number now corrected.

50. Fiery Jack @42 – I wasn’t happy with Lisbon even as I was writing it in. Trouble is, once you’ve “seen” an answer, it’s hard to “unsee” it…

51. Dawdled @43. I think it’s accepted that capitalising a word that is not normally capitalised is considered fair. The other way around (i.e. taking a word that is a proper noun and de-capitalising it) is not, however (but see this from five years ago, which suggests that some setters think it’s ok); if the setter wants to try to mislead us they will sometimes put such a word at the start of a sentence so that it has a capital anyway, but the context of the surface makes the solver think about the lower case version.

52. Chinaware and hence china plate would originally have had a capital C, I wonder when this changed ?
    Most versions of China “something ” still retain the capital C.

53. Roz @52: interesting point. Same for scotch and manx? (and dutch?)

54. Three point turn: easy. From the left-hand side of the road, turn the car right across towards the other pavement, reverse to the left, and complete by turning right back down the road.
    Another annoying bit of clueing: ‘government’ standing for ‘G’. Since when?

55. MrEssexboy good extension , I am sure it is widespread. I did check Chambers for china , only lower case for chinaware etc, but also China aster , China goose and many more. I will check your ideas later.

56. hilt @54: HMG = Her [or His] Majesty’s Government – standard abbreviation featured in numerous Government information web pages, such as this one – https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hmg-personnel-security-controls

57. Another one who failed to parse MPG. Tried using MILE, MILES or GALLON to = measure, then couldn’t tease out the remainder
    I even went so far as to discover there is a sports car called Sergal but it didn’t help much.

58. Overall enjoyable despite solving many by definitions and partial parsing and then relying on Andrew to fill in the blanks for me. CONGENITAL as “compkete” was new to me and I missed ALLY, CRUISE, and BEAR. Favourites were UNCLOTHE, SPEAKERS (I liked “they say” as a definition and not homophone indicator), UNOPENED, and MIRACLE. Thanks to both.
    [hilt @54: In the US a federal agent is sometimes called a G-man, the G meaning government.]

59. Andrew, thanks for parsing MILES PER GALLON. and ANTI. Also orienting me to the possible casting for “muggins,” which I had the impression meant soemthing like “silly old me.”

    Andrew aat 2d There’s no reversing in MENTION. “Bring up” is the definition, not a reversal indicator, and the wordplay is the very simp[le MEN + T(I)O + N, containing I for island.

    I also especially liked “they say” for SPEAKERS.

    Thanks, Nutmeg and Andrew.

60. I’m one of those who had WALLY for 1d.

    Regarding CONGENITAL=complete, I’m thinking that Chambers has its descriptive hat on, and is just describing common thinking. I took a look at the OED, which I regard as more of an authority than Chambers, just that the latter is used in crossword world because it is cheaper and more accessible. OED does not give complete or anything like it. So there you go.

61. Spooner’s catflap @56; I don’t think you can use HMG to justify government, that means the M should stand for majesty as an abbreviation. I think Tony @58 is right, as that is what’s in Chambers: 7.Government (as in G-man below).

62. Dr WhatsOn @60. Collins also has congenital = complete, viz:
    2 (adjective) in the sense of complete
    (informal)
    He is a congenital liar.
    Synonyms
    complete.

63. Robi @61
    Yes, it’s the recurrent “can you use a letter from multi-letter initials to stand for a word? The example that springs to mind is equating B with “broadcasting”, as that’s the second B in BBC. My opinion is no!
    However, as Tony and you say, in this case G is justified by “G.men”.

64. Robi @61, I would have no problem whatsoever with M=Majesty: besides in HMG, it is a standard abbreviation in, for example, ‘HM the Queen’ (Google it!) – often used alongside, before his demise, HRH the Duke of Edinburgh.

65. Dr WhatsOn @60 – I thought the reason Chambers is used in Crosswordland is because it includes many more spelling variations as headwords, therefore provides the setter with a wider choice of justifiable entries. Also many more definitions…

    Basically, Chambers aims to be comprehensive while other dictionaries are more prescriptive. At work, I use Collins as my arbiter on style (and it is often at odds with Oxford, for example). You couldn’t use Chambers as a style guide.

66. Robi @62: Collins schmollins (although I realise you might just be making an observation rather than concurring). As DrWhatsOn @60 points out, the definitive OED does not list the two words as synonymous. I am at a loss to explain why two respectable dictionaries perpetrate this outrage.

    Another common usage of the adjective is in the expression ‘congenital liar’. Describing someone as a ‘complete liar’ sounds rather odd. Anyone for blithering = CONGENITAL?

67. Re HMG or any other variant of this: does this mean that H= her / his is OK as well?

68. Re 13ac: congenital → dyed-in-the-wool → through-and-through → complete?

69. Bear, Miracle, Philosopher and London are symphonies by Haydn, Reformation by Mendelsohn, Pastoral by Beethoven – does this constitute a theme?

70. KenfromPen @69: Bravo! That can’t be coincidental, surely.

71. KenfromPen
    I’m kicking myself (gently) that I didn’t see that. I’m not familiar with the Haydn symphonies, except the London(s), but the Reformation was on Radio 3 yesterday afternoon!

72. Did this among other things and got, eventually, all the parsings. As usual i objected to inaccurate wording. 11 across says “Economy measure derived from parking in sports car, initially?” But MPG is derived from “miles per gallon”. Typical Guardian setter sloppiness.

73. Keith T – MPG is derived from miles per gallon, but we derive the answer from the wordplay.

74. Keith Thomas @72; you’re entitled to your opinion of course but I don’t see how this excellent clue could come under the heading of sloppiness. Everything you need is there and a lovely surface to boot.

75. I do sort of agree with Keith, in that the “derived from” seems to be in the wrong direction. I can’t claim to have an opinion, though, as I was unable to parse it.

76. …I see what essexboy and William are saying, but the wordplay gives MPG, not “miles per gallon”. There seems to be an extra stage missing.

77. ‘Parking in sports car’ gives MPG, ‘initially?’ signals that this is an initialism, and the solver ‘derives’ the full version from the initialism. (I didn’t parse it either, but as soon as I saw Andrew’s parsing I thought it was superb.)

78. OK, essexboy, you’ve convinced me. “Initially” was the extra stage I was looking for.

79. That one (11ac) clearly recalls clues that Wanderer (FT, aka Puck) regularly includes – I even see him as the ‘inventor’ of this kind of clue.
    He would have let the solver know that they should expand (or the like) MPG but I don’t immediately see how to do that in the surface here.
    I agree with muffin that in 11ac there is ‘something missing’, whatever that is exactly.
    Yet, altogether, another squeaky clean crossword from Nutmeg (who many Guardian solvers seem to put on a pedestal).
    There’s none of (my favourite setter) Vlad’s political things, none of Boatman’s or Philistine’s liberties, all quite ‘normal’, actually.
    As someone who also does the (IMO, generally excellent) Times crossword on a daily basis, I could easily see this particular crossword being today’s or tomorrow’s or yesterday’s Times puzzle. The style is really similar.
    But then, our setter is also part of the Times team (and so I must have solved her puzzles there too).
    Meanwhile, many thanks to Andrew and Nutmeg.

80. muffin: 🙂 (Not sure I’ve convinced Keith though!)

81. Keith Thomas @72: essexboy has answered your objection to 11a. Regarding your more general comment, “typical Guardian setter sloppiness”, some Guardian setters feel no need to be restricted by the often arbitrary “rules” that other publications impose. That’s not the same as sloppiness.

82. muffin @76. To me, MPG just *is* MILES PER GALLON. I would never say em pee gee. That’s why I said @47 that I thought the clue worked perfectly. Though I must admit I hadn’t taken ‘initially’ into account, which I suppose makes it better than perfect. 🙂

83. . . . . and what about Schubert’s Unopened Symphony – the one he was intending to embark on after he’d written the closer to his Eighth . . . . .

84. Sheffieldhatter@47 and recent posts: I spent some time cogitating on that mpg issue and eventually decided as you succinctly put it: while the surface may be misleading, the clue is perfectly fair and maybe even improved by this sleight of hand – the wordplay is certainly derived from the definition after all. Sorry nutmeg for my doubts!

85. Sorry definition is derived from wordplay, my confusion is derived from intake of scotch.

86. I find solving quite a lot of Nutmeg’s clues more of a chore than a pleasure but realise othat I’m in a minority.
    5d We’ve had it several times recently so I suppose that I’m going to have to get used to the fact that “online” means “put an e in front” but I can’t say that I like it. There is such a thing as an e-form, I think, but it refers to what would normally be a piece of paper, not a group of pupils.
    Thanks to Nutmeg, the brevity of whose surfaces is always to be admired, and Andrew.

87. Thanks much to Andrew for the blog and parsing clearly several that stumped me and to Nutmeg for an excellent puzzle. The clueing was clever throughout (favorites BEAR and SPEAKERS for the misdirection.) Happily the ones I failed to parse were easy enough to fill in without the insight.
    Thanks to @essexboy and others for selling me on the MPG parsing. Thanks also to @KentfromPen for theme spotting!

88. Buddy@9 I truly believe Schubert called it a day on the 8th because it sounded too much like Beethoven but IMO it was miles better than Beethoven’s 8th
    And I dont have much time for Schubert’s 9th

89. No one will read this so I can say what I think. This was the most boring and formulaic crossword I think I have ever done. I fail to understand the praise that Nutmeg gets on here, it feels a bit like the opposite of Orwell’s Two Minute Hate.
    Maybe it is a bit like the “wicked” clue for CHANDLER the other day. See it once or twice and it is a very nice device. See it twenty times and the novelty wears off.
    The word play from Nutmeg is very tired and cliched and just makes me think – I have seen this before……. over and over …. repeat.
    Even MPG , has anyone ever seen parking not clued as P and sports car not clued as MG ?
    Nutmeg always reminds me of Basil Fawlty describing Sybil on University Challenge , specialist subject – Stating the bleeding obvious.

90. I sort of agree Roz though not entirely, I was too busy yesterday so did this this morning instead, and while there was nothing to complain about I didn’t enjoy it that much, and couldn’t say why that was.

    Unfortunately I also had a similar experience with Paul’s today. I’ll be interested in your take on today’s offering.

91. Completed this yesterday except for 22 down, which I spent all day thinking about. Then picked up the crossword again this morning and spotted the answer within a minute. How does this happen? Thanks to Andrew for explaining MPG, the only one I couldn’t parse, and, of course, to Nutmeg.

    Comment to Roz: if you’ve been doing 14 crosswords a day for 70 years, you’re bound to have seen every type of clue before.

92. Well i enjoyed it. Just hard enough but doable. I haven’t seen all the clues before and found some clever and novel ones.
    Thanks Nutmeg and Andrew.

    Note to Roz… you need to be later commenting to be unread. I’m used to it.

Comments are closed.