Guardian Saturday Crossword 28,596 by Picaroon (6 November 2021)

79 comments on “Guardian Saturday Crossword 28,596 by Picaroon (6 November 2021)”

1. Great puzzle, great blog. The theme required getting about half of the theme clues by wordplay alone before the PDM, which is I think about the right ratio.

   Re: 4d. In “Her tears flowed like wine”, is the SIMILE the whole sentence, or “flowed like wine”, “like wine” or “wine”? Picaroon would have us believe “wine” (it follows like), but that can’t be, can it?

   En route to TONIC I had ATTIC, which I think works perfectly, surprisingly: Attica is a prison (site of well-known riots), the clue is nicely worded to indicate removing the final A, and Attic is a line of hot-cold mixers for bath or shower. (That last bit is probably too obscure.) Oh well.

2. Loved it. Thanks Picaroon, and thanks mc_rapper67 for the blog.

3. Thanks mc_rapper 76. Keeping up with my failures to recognize themes I stalled with the crossing letters in for 1, 6, 16, 19 and 20 but no apparent definitions. I had managed with the months in 15 and 25 but didn’t get any further along that line. I even went back to the website thinking I must have missed some special instructions. When the penny did at last drop my exasperation with myself was tempered with admiration of Picaroon’s imagination and cleverness. A tour de force.

4. It took me a while to get into this, and even when I got going I was stumped by the clues with ellipses despite having ‘solved’ a couple of them. (Why did they lack definitions?)

   It was when I got CUBE that the penny dropped, and it then became somewhat easier to work through the whole crossword from the bottom to the top. LADETTE, JUNE and SIMILE were my last in – all of them taking longer to solve and all good clues.

   I liked the unusual device employed here to ‘hide’ the definitions. and the whole puzzle was enjoyable and satisfying to solve.

   Thanks to Picaroon and mc_rapper67.

5. For a while I was baffled by the way some of the clues were written ( … and /08 and 1/12) but the penny dropped with 20ac = SCORE and then I started to enjoy this puzzle more. Overall I thought it was a tough one to solve, but very ingenious. Completed the SE corner last.

   Favourites: SECOND, LENDER.

   New for me: LASSA fever; 15 August = Assumption of Mary; layette for 13ac; JUNEAU for 6d (loi).

   Thanks, both.

6. Thank you mc_rapper67 for the detailed blog. And to Picaroon for a witty puzzle. Twigged to the trick pretty early which I’ve seen before, but not so many or so varied. Kept me guessing.

   Favourite was TEA URNS. What a find in the fodder, and titillating in its misdirection. OBSIDIAN and POUT good fun too.

7. Some time elapsed between my solving of this puzzle, during which time I was teased by those ellipses, to seeing how the device involving the three dots worked with the clue numbers. My PDM was the Feast of the ASSUMPTION of Mary into Heaven clued at 16d, which I recalled is celebrated on 15th August (It’s not necessarily commemorated on a Sunday, mc_rapper67, but is a Holy Day of Obligation for Catholics). After that, the down clues One (SOLE), Two (SECOND) and Three (MUSKETEERS) all fell into place. It was fun working the other similar clues out. So the “endgame” here was a bonus. The initial solve of the puzzle itself made me scratch my head a lot, as like Alan B@4, I couldn’t see where the definitions were for the clues in question. My favourie clue other than those with the ellipses was 26a TONIC, which I thought was neat (!). Many thanks to Picaroon and to mc_rapper67.

8. I twigged to this pretty early, with ODD (FOI) confirmed by SCORE, but that didn’t necessarily make all the other like clues easy (e.g. ASSUMPTION and, for some obscure reason, LOI JUNE). Lots of favorites, some mentioned already, but also PEROXIDES (what word would have an X in the middle… OX…? Oh, of course!), AT A LOW EBB, IN THE KNOW, CAMELOT – and lots of the themed ones. Thanks, Picaroon and mc_rapper67.

9. Thanks mc_rapper 76. Loved the I think novel device of ghost definitions via the initial little dots. Like Tassie Tim, light gleamed for me with SCORE then shone ever brighter with the cleverly diverse equations like 8=CREW, 25/12=Xmas etc. Nice work, Picaroon.

10. Thanks rapper and Picaroon.

    Early theme answers were SWEET and CUBE after which I tried to fit in other sugar related answers! That was unfortunate.
    I was, like others online, hampered as the clue presentation interposed “Down” or “Across” between the clue number and the …. however once I clicked … really enjoyed it.

11. At first the dissimilarity of solutions had me fooled (Assumption, crew.. wtbleep?), but then I think it was with 20=score that the aha arrived. A fun device. I think you’re right re 4d Dr. Wh @1, the simile is the whole phrase, so a bit of a liberty but forgiveable. Like michelle @5, dnk lassa fever or that Juneau was the Alaskan capital. Always things to learn. Enjoyable, thanks Pickers and mc.

12. I had to come back to this a few times before it was finished, and it was only on the second try that I saw how the ellipsis clues worked. Like AlanB@4 I finally got in with CUBE, solving from the wordplay and then realising the significance of 27. I’d had ODD pencilled in already, but hadn’t made the connection there with 19. I don’t know what it says about my numeracy that I can spot a cube but not realise 19 is an odd number. Even after that, I was impressed by the variety and ingenuity of the ellipses clues. LOI was SOLE; after thinking first of LONE and wondering for a while if Lon Chaney’s films could be considered classics. Very nicely done, Picaroon, great blog, mc_rapper67.

13. Thanks for the blog, always nice to have something new for a Saturday and very imaginative from the setter with the range of clues for numbers. Just pick a few favourites,9Ac is a very clever hidden word, 29Ac is just so neat , 27D so simple but effective.
    Two very minor quibbles just for balance, we have two hidden words in a row right at the start and 19D is an indirect anagram .

14. Fantastic puzzle from the pirate. More like this please. Amusingly I led myself down a rather daft blind alley initially assuming that the elipses were all to do with threes, I had musketeers and odd and cube so I thought I was on track, score unfortunately immediately brought to mind three-score ( I had conveniently forgotten the ‘and ten’) and second the three-second rule so I didn’t twig the clue numbering until Xmas. Thruppenny-bit drop moment in spades!

    Many thanks Picaroon and MC for the blog on a dark-ish side puzzle!

15. I completed most of this while wondering what on earth was going on here. No mean feat, I felt in retrospect! The light finally dawned with ASSUMPTION and realising there was a date involved. I’ve become far more aware of holy days since living in France where so many are holidays. And then I was off! I loved it. Great challenge and very entertaining. Many thanks to Picaroon and to mc_rapper for the very comprehensive blog.

16. Many thanks, Picaroon and mc_rapper67. All smiles, no pouts here … even though (somehow) I didn’t diagnose the ellipses until Friday night, when SOLE and JUNE were still resisting. Super stuff. [MAJORITY made all the sweeter by JM having his fourpennorth on BJ on the day of the puzzle, though sweeter not quite the word.]

17. Well I really enjoyed this.

    When I first looked at it and saw all the clues starting with three dots I thought I had no chance but I got IN THE KNOW straightaway so looked at 8dn and worked out it must be CREW from the wordplay even though there was no definition to confirm. After getting another three dot clue I decided that these clues didn’t have a definition so had to get them from word play alone and check with crosses.

    I wrote all the three dot clue answers in order along the top of the puzzle to see if there was some sort of connection.

    But it wasn’t until I got my tenth three dot clue, XMAS, that the penny dropped – I went back and looked at all the others I had already solved and burst out laughing. My last two were JUNE and SOLE.

    My favourites were: PEROXIDES, E-BOOK, LADETTE, LENDER and of course XMAS for that light bulb moment.

    Thanks Picaroon and mc_rapper

18. Blah @ 14 I think you have stepped through a time loop, the number theme was quite a puzzle but taking a month and a half is quite impressive, and how did you get back ?

19. Thanks for a super blog mc, and thanks Picaroon for truly delightful puzzle – which took me several goes to complete.

    The first of the … clues to fall for me was MAJORITY, which made me wonder if the theme was ‘silent’ (as in the definition being silent), but then I got MUSKETEERS and wondered if the fact that there were three dots was significant, completely ignoring the clue number…

    After getting a few others and becoming ever more baffled, it was ASSUMPTION that finally cracked it for me – the definition bit of the clue looked like it might be a date, so I looked up the feast day and… that’s when I started laughing. Hard. For a good few minutes.

    JUNE and SOLE were also my LOIs. Clues pretty much all up to the usual high standard we expect from Picaroon – AT A LOW EBB probably my favourite, and the cunningly hidden OVERUSING. Definition for SIMILE was indeed a bit loose, as others have mentioned, but it was clear enough what was meant.

20. Fiona Anne @17 – glad I’m not the only one who had that reaction!

21. [Roz@18, I really should have read that back to myself before posting!

    Regarding the trip, relatively speaking, the journey would generally be quite roundabout, however in this case it was especially straightforward. ]

22. I’m so pleased to come to this thread 20 odd (some very odd!) posts in and find universal acclaim. As I completed it last Saturday, the enjoyment level simply grew throughout and it is one of my puzzles of the year. I truly didn’t want it to end. I even went to the Friday G thread to get an early ‘fix’ of admiration from commenters there. One of those puzzles you want to go and tell others about – which is tricky when you live in a household of crossword loathers!

    Like several others above, SCORE went in earliest of the themed solutions but I didn’t fully twig what was happening until CUBE. And it was nice that, even having clocked the idea, other themed solutions didn’t collapse like a pack of cards. Almost pointless to try to pick a favourite from such a delight: I probably share with Fiona Anne, XMAS (I just couldn’t see what could fit into X–S and make sense of the definition) and with TassieTim and Roz, AT A LOW EBB for its simple beauty.

    Thanks Picaroon and mc

23. I completed about half of this last Saturday including 4 ellipses but hadn’t a Scooby what was occurring. Therefore, very grateful for mc’s preamble this morning, which enabled me to finish this tour de force. A dismal DNF but delighted to join in the fun. I agree with your enthusiastic response PM @20, just sorry mine came a week later 🙂

    Ta Picaroon & mc

24. What a fantastic idea, and a very enjoyable crossword.

    I’m embarrassed to say that I only twigged at the end after completing the solve; a real tea-tray-drop-moment. Like Biggles @3, I just thought there were some special instructions that had been inadvertently left out, doh! I particularly liked TONIC and TEA URNS.

    mc_rapper; I don’t know about other setters, but I never start at the first Across and finish at the last Down clue. If it’s themed, I usually attempt the theme clues first. I always make sure that the last few clues are not the last Down ones.

25. What fun!

    Like Fiona Anne, I wrote all the three-dot clues down in a list, – with their numbers, but it still took me a while to see the connection! The penny dropped about halfway through and then, like PostMark, I was sad that there weren’t more clues to work through, once I knew what i was looking for.

    It was ASSUMPTION that clinched it: I have good reason to know that it is not always celebrated on Sunday. Years ago, packing up to return home from our holiday in France, we realised we needed a birthday present for the following day. We decided we could buy it on our way home – on August 15th. Every shop, throughout the entire journey, was closed.

    I’ve been really looking forward to reading the blog and sharing others’ delight in this super puzzle. Impossible, as others have said, to pick out favourite clues but, again like Fiona and Anne and PostMark, I’ll mention XMAS, mainly because I’ve always hated that spelling and would never, ever use it.

    Huge thanks to Picaroon for a real Saturday treat and to MC for a blog to match.

26. Fortunately I did see what was going on fairly early on in the solving process. I’ve written on the sheet of paper that this was a ‘brill brain work out’

    Thank you very much to Picaroon for the great crossword and mc_rapper for the blog

27. An excellent puzzle but slightly undermined by the online format, which sticks an “a” or “d” between the number and the clue. Or it could be seen as a little bonus for loyal print subscribers, I suppose.

28. Herb@27, I don’t know what device you are using, but I see no As or Ds on my PC screen.

29. Simply splendid.

30. 1d was LOI for me too. I tried all the words ending in ONE and OGE (EGO , latin for I = one, backwards) before realising that I had been caught yet again by “back in” being used where everyone apart from a crossword setter would have ” back of”.
    Thanks to Picaroon and mc_rapper.

31. Superb

32. Thanks for all the comments and feedback so far – much appreciated! Interesting to see that several others seems to have been left with SOLE and/or JUNE as last one(s) in.
    I realise now that I should have made mention in the blog of what an achievement it was to construct the grid to fit so many of these solutions in at their numbered slot – e.g. getting MAJORITY at 18 and ASSUMPTION at 15, making sure 27 was a 4 letter word etc. As a non-setter, I guess that must have taken some doing, and maybe needs more of a nod of appreciation.
    To answer some specific points:
    – on the SIMILE clue, as several have mentioned, the simile is really, like, the whole phrase, not just the bit, like, after the like. (Call me an old fuddy-duddy, as my kids often do, but It was nice to be reminded of the proper use of ‘like’, unlike the current usage by those of a certain age, which is to interject it almost at random into any sentence…)
    – on the ASSUMPTION, I’m sure I saw something on Wikipedia saying it was the ‘Sunday nearest the 15th of August’, but it seems that only applies in the Armenian Apostolic Church – will correct the parsing
    – thanks to Robi at #24 for the insight into your setting modus operandi – if I can find out who you set as I will try to remember not to use that method of attack on your puzzles!
    – speaking of time travel, as Roz and Blah were, molonglo at #9 has kindly given me 9 extra years by transposing my monicker from 67 to 76 (;+>)

33. I did this on the train back home from London after a couple of beers at Kings Cross, which might have been expected to impair my solving abilities, but luckily I got CREW and SCORE fairly early and so twigged what was going on. Yes, this was a great puzzle, with my favourite being XMAS with its hint of &lit / clue as definition.

    Roz @13: 19d is only the slightest of partially indirect anagrams, just requiring you to get I from “one”.

    Many thanks Picaroon and mc_rapper67.

34. Loved the puzzle and loved mc_rapper67’s excellently written blog.
    And it’s not often you get praise from me!
    Thanks to Picaroon and mc_rapper67 (what a name!)

35. I left this on the back burner for quite a while, with half a dozen clues resisting my every effort, until just as I was falling asleep last night SOLE came into my head. First thing this morning I took two minutes to complete the grid, which as others have said was (apart from my brain fade lasting several days) very enjoyable.

    OVERUSING has got to be the most well-disguised hidden answer ever – or maybe this was just a good week for hiding things from me.

    Thanks picaroon and mc.

36. It’s a non-completion for me here as I had an unparsed JUDE for 6d. I attempted to justify this by creating a ranking system amongst the disciples!

37. mc @32 – I’m glad you said this because it’s something I was mulling over on my run this morning and was going to come back here to comment on it myself. To fit in 12 theme words when the positioning of them is so crucial is quite an achievement in itself. But to do it without having to cram the rest of the grid with the kind of filler words you’d more usually find in an Azed is even more impressive.

    And to then end up with a puzzle that isn’t just ‘for the setter’ but is an enjoyable experience for the solver too… wow.

38. [Robi @28
    It’s an Android phone. Actually I was wrong – you get the whole words across and down between the numbers and clues! Not ideal but glad to hear it doesn’t affect all online solving. The software does have a few annoying features for solving on a phone but it’s certainly better the Independent’s setup.]

39. Lord Jim@33 the second i is not in the clue, quite enough to be worth a frown. “One” is just the thin end of the wedge.

40. Hmm, I enjoyed this, and even found the theme reasonably early on, and even used the theme to help in getting some of the later clues. Then I ran up against a complete blank on SOLE (1d…). So a DNF, and a slightly bitter aftertaste to a beautiful confection. I;m not sure if the setter was trying to be kind by adding ‘classical’ but it threw me completely.

    mc_rapper67 @32, not only in the Armenian church ! In the UK Catholic calendar, the Solemnity of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary will usually be marked on the nearest Sunday to the 15th August. Only in ‘traditionally Catholic’ countries in Europe will the actual date be used, when it will often be a public holiday too as Eileen @25 notes too. I’ve had personal experience likewise in Vienna, Austria.

    Thanks Picaroon – great inventiveness and fantastic fun quotient. Bravo mc_rapper67.

41. Herb @38 – I use the Guardian Puzzles app on the iPhone, which doesn’t show you the clue numbers at all. I’m using this as my excuse for taking so long to spot the theme!

42. Roz @39: I think only you would frown (and possibly essexboy, depending on what mood he’s in) 🙂

43. MrEssexboy is less tolerant than I am. I do not mind abbreviations if the actual letters are present. Street = ST is fine and Helium=He but not copper=cu .

44. Thanks mc_rapper67 for another great blog and @32 for a worthy addition, what a great crossword. I was lucky in that I drew a blank on everything until CUBE which got me straight onto the big idea but even then the use of the numbers was varied enough to require plenty of thought. I am going to come down on the side of Roz in the indirect debate as I agree that ONE= I is not unambiguous (a miss is as good as a mile) – and I wonder how many people got that clue from the wordplay rather than the definition. But I didn’t mind two hidden answers in a row because, as for Sheffield Hatter, i took so long to spot the first that I had forgotten how the second clue worked. Thanks Picaroon.

45. Brilliant, thoroughly enjoyed this! Revealed itself to me slowly. First few themed answers CUBE, MAJORITY struggled to see a connection. SCORE & ODD suggested a numeric theme but was a little slow to tie to clue number. Even having twigged the theme, not all remaining solves fell out. SOLE LOI. Impressive to get so many clue numbers into the grid. Many thanks Picaroon & mc_rapper67.

46. I’m shocked JUNEAU was new to Michelle @ 5 it turns up an awful lot in crosswords, it’s usually the first state capital I think of!
    I got the theme from 16 (where is the definition) but I already had MAJORITY.
    I thought 19A was weak, it applies to 17 out of the 33 clues.

47. Roz @ 43

    Does that mean that you wouldn’t accept OR/Au for gold Ag for silver etc? Personally I think that’s ridiculous, as does my non-cruciverbal wife (who is alawyer and therefore likes precision).

48. SimonS – Are there are some crossed wires here? Roz was talking about indirect anagrams, I think.

49. I had the same trouble as Herb @27, all the down clues, with which I started, being written as 1 down etc.
    And then after the first few downs, I was surprised that the ellipses ran out, to reappear only sporadically elsewhere. I suppose it can be put down to high expectations, but I found it a bit half-baked, and sorry to say, left it unfinished some way short. Never mind, everyone else loves marmite today.
    Thanks to Picaroon & mc_rapper67

50. Thanks for the on-going comments – still pretty overwhelmingly favourable to this puzzle – and for the various kind words about the blog.

    Re. the online experience – Herb/widdersbel, et al – I can see what Herb means about the Grauniad Android app/site – it cleverly displays the clue above/below the grid as you scroll up/down, but it does include ‘Across’ and ‘Down’ between the number and the clue. Which may be better than the iPhone app – which widdersbel reports displays no clue number at all!

    (For the record, I do solve electronically on occasion – with the Times site/software being the most slick; the Grauniad, for all its sins, maybe second best. The Telegraph one is a bit clunky, and I have never got to grips with the Indy one. But the best bit about all those sites is the ‘Print’ option – nothing beats a nice sheet of A4 paper, or the actual newspaper itself, on rare occasions, where you can see the whole thing in one go, and scribble, erase, fold it up, stick it in your pocket, screw it up and print again, drop it in the bath etc. to your heart’s content!)

    Re. JUNEAU – various comments – I always remember it from the (awful) homophonic pun Q&A – ‘What is the capital of Alaska?’ ‘Juneau’ ‘Yes, I do, but I was asking you!’…

    Roz – at various # – we need to help you turn that frown (;+<) upside down. I occasionally get a bit piqued by an indirect anagram, or a homophonic definition, etc. But once I've solved a clue and gone 'Ah…' that's what they meant', I move on and get over it…

    Epee Sharkey at #40 – thanks for the update from the Catholic Church side of things – looks like I was hoist by my own Wiki-petard-ia on this one! Do we have any Armenian Apostolics in the audience?…

    Re. the hidden words: Roz at #13 – there were two hidden word clues together at the start, but one was a reverse, and this might not have been so notable if they were hidden together half way down? I'm sure we quite often see two or more anagram (or partial anagram) clues contiguously? Anyway, I have already moved on. sheffield hatter at #35 – OVERUSING was cunningly concealed, but is maybe eclipsed by Paul’s reversed hiding of TARAMASLATA in Grauniad 27,858, back in October?

51. Thank you mc @ 50 I did say very minor quibbles, I was 99% positive for this puzzle.
    There is nothing wrong with two consecutive hidden clues, it is just they are quite rare and not quite as elegant if they follow.
    My frown is just a minor admonishment for an indirect anagram . I like to see the actual letters in the clue to do the anagram in my head, Lord Jim has different views and I totally respect his opinion.
    Glad to see the people here enjoying your blog so much , perhaps more will buy the Eye and join in your blogs for Cyclops.

52. I didn’t think 19D was an indirect anagram, when I think of an indirect anagram I think of a synonym for a word in the clue that is then used as an anagram, e.g.

    “Consider the clue Unusually tough monster (5), adapted from an example given in Ximenes on the Art of the Crossword (see History below). Here, the compiler has invoked the indirect anagram: the solver is expected first to find the synonym HARDY for “tough”, and then to anagram it to give the answer HYDRA, as opposed to being given the clue Unusually hardy monster (5), in which the letters to be anagrammed are provided literatim.”

53. [Roz/Lord Jim @42/43: I most certainly did frown at 19d, and I may even have uttered a Rozian ‘tut, tut’. But, given that the rest of the puzzle was a delight, my bad mood didn’t last too long. In fact, it wore off well before Xmas. 😉

    Simon S @47: as you’ll have gathered from the above, I’m with Roz on this. As t in c @48 implies, silver = Ag etc is fine in a charade, but not (imho) as letters to be separated and mixed in with the anagram fodder (as some setters have done recently, e.g. with i.e.). How about ‘Drunken sailor with Geordie superior gives signal’ (6)?]

54. ParadigmShifter @52 – there are degrees of indirectness. I doubt anyone here would consider the HYDRA example fair, but that’s taking it to the extreme.

    It’s largely a matter of personal taste – there’s no right or wrong. Roz and essexboy don’t like any indirectness at all in anagrams, and that’s fine. Most of us tolerate the odd letter or two being clued indirectly, and that’s also fine.

    What I find interesting is that some forms of indirectness seem to be more acceptable than others. Take ‘criminal’ in 22a – took me a long time to spot that this was intended as an anagram indicator, and I would argue it’s far more indirect than one=I in 19d.

55. I was also one who frowned at 19dn.
    However, not because (as some say) it’s an indirect anagram.
    This kind of indirect anagrams would be OK to me as long as the contentious bit, here ‘one’, gives something unique.
    Unfortunately, that is not the case here.
    I had no problem to find ‘obsidian’ but my solving partner did.
    Not having heard of ‘obsidian’, she went for ‘obsadian’ seeing ‘one’ as A (and which the grid allows).
    Totally legitimate, in my opinion, and the reason why I think this clue wasn’t fully up to scratch.
    Anagrams with N for ‘new’ or T for ‘time’, for example, don’t leave any room for manoeuvring.
    Having said all this, we thought this was Picaroon at his inventive-best (not that it is a word ….)
    [and for once, I wasn’t on James’ side (@ 49)]
    So, many thanks to our setter & to mc_rapper67 (for the blog).

56. Regarding indirect anagrams, here is one way to look at it. There are plenty of books, websites and other resources to help novices or indeed anyone in their cryptic activities. These resources contain lists of common substitutions. You might expect to see all chemical symbols, American states, Roman numerals, sets like one=1=I=a etc. Any of these IMO are fair game. You would not see hardy=tough.

57. I think it would be too easy if every “crossword abbreviation” indicator corresponded to the same letter(s). You see Roman numerals, chemical elements, Spanish/French articles all the time, with multiple readings.

    There was no anagrind in 19D though, maybe it needed to end with “rocky rock” 😉

58. Sil @55 – I would accept that argument if the ambiguity could not be resolved by reference to a dictionary (as per the recent example of TUMBRIL/TUMBREL), but as far as I can see OBSADIAN is not in my copy of Chambers.

    Shortcomings of vocabulary are usually deemed to be the solver’s problem, not the setter’s.

59. ParadigmShifter at #57 – in my parsing, I see it as a partial anagram – the O (old) stands alone, and then the first ‘rock’ is the anagram indicator for the rest of it – BAND IS I – with ‘for’ as the link word and the second ‘rock’ as the definition.

60. One of the first puzzles I ever commented on here used the clue number 11 to stand for ‘side’ or ‘team’ (or something) and I made what I thought was a very urbane and cultured remark about it being like a theatrical production which ‘breaks the fourth wall’. Haven’t seen the device again until now, but I’m sure that helped. It was SCORE that made me realize what was going on, just as it was for you, mc.

    I never did manage to get 1dn LONE — can’t think why as it seems clear now, but I never managed to think of “classical star” as meaning ‘the name of a star in a classical language’, unfortunately — so thanks for elucidating, mc. I got everything else, but did wonder how the American solvers would get on with the dates in dd/mm format. Haven’t seen any complaints here, otoh.

    Biffed 13ac, never having heard of a layette. Btw, strictly speaking, although the D did indeed take the place of the Y, the clue only instructed to remove a Y and insert a D (not necessarily in the same place). If it had been a clear case of substitution, I would have found ‘layette’. As it was, I didn’t bother trying to work out the base word, as the def was so clear anyway.

    14ac, TEA URNS was a lovely anagram clue, with such a natural (npi) surface.

    26ac, TONIC. I don’t think you need the definite article as in your explanation, mc; one is sent ‘to nick’ just as one can be sent ‘to prison’. Or isn’t, as the case may be.

    Beautifully deceptive surface in 29ac, AT A LOW EBB. I needed a few crossers to get that. Similarly SIMILE at 4dn.

    15dn ASSUMPTION Day isn’t big in my personal calendar, but an easy lookup.

    Spent some time on 23dn, LENDER trying to remember who it was swam the Hellespont, and upon finding Leander had too many letters, assumed I was on a false trail. Came back to it successfully.

    Mc@32, a lot use of ‘like’ by youth is the verb construction ‘to be like’ meaning ‘to say’. It’s not that new, either. This is from 1982, although it may well be that the construction was born in “the Valley”.

    Robi@24, teatrays aren’t for dropping: that’s pennies; tea trays are for hitting yourself over the head with. (There’s an illustrative video, but I’ve already done one YouTube link.)

    Roz@32++, I knew you would take the ‘all the letters must be on the page’ line. To me that is of so little help that one might as well accept ‘one’ for I. Of course, as you say (approximately): “The setters set them and it’s for us solvers to solve them”. [Btw, thanks for your clarification in another puzzle blog) of what, exactly, constitutes an eclipse; you’re quite right, of course].

61. Yes you are correct and it’s explained in the answer as well, no idea how I missed that.

62. I thought American dates might cause confusion as well but the use of numbers > 12 for the day made it unambiguous in my book (although I only realised 15/08 was Assumption day after I had finished)

63. Thank you Tony @60 you are very gracious and your quote of my ONLY rule is totally correct in meaning. For anagrams it is just how my brain works, I need to see all the letters on the paper.
    [ Totally off topic for everyone, the Leonid meteor shower is building , peak will be Mon/Tue but CLEAR skies tonight so pretty good , just seeing one good meteor is worth the effort. ]

64. Thank you Picaroon for a real treat, I loved all of it! Thanks too mc for the great blog, my loi also SOLE

65. widdersbel @58. I agree with much of what you say on this blog, but I have to agree with Sil on this occasion. I think the solver is entitled to be upset if an unknown word is not deducible from the wordplay. It’s not whether it’s in Chambers, it’s whether it’s a reasonable construction from the clue.

    I have often inveighed against the use of anagrams to clue difficult or obscure words. OBSIDIAN/OBSADIAN is yet another example. Of course, the setter is not to know which words are difficult/obscure to the solver: it is for them to set and for us to solve. Nevertheless, the occasional gripe is (or can be) justified, as I think this one is (although I solved 19d with no difficulty myself 🙂 ).

66. Sil @55 and sh@65: but wouldn’t that argument logically mean that you could never indicate, say, A or I by “one”, not just in an anagram? Suppose LASSA is clued “Girl one gives a kind of fever (5)”. If the solver hasn’t heard of the word (and the last letter isn’t a crosser) they could argue that it might be LASSI and is therefore unfair.

67. It would be unfair if LASSI was also a type of fever and not a drink

68. Lord Jim @66. I didn’t say the setter couldn’t set clues like that – I just said that solvers are entitled to feel a little hard done by, and to express their feelings here. I don’t think it’s for me or anyone else here to say what setters are allowed to do.

69. sh @65 – fair point about anagrams and obscure words. (I don’t personally think of obsidian as being particularly obscure, but I suppose it is hardly an everyday word.)

70. In Minecraft it probably is an everyday word 😉

71. sh: I do understand what you mean, although I don’t entirely agree. What I was trying to say was that the point that you and Sil are making seems to have nothing to do with indirect anagrams in particular. It just concerns indicators that could mean more than one thing in any sort of clue. But (as widdersbel says @58), there is no such rock as OBSADIAN, and there is no such fever as LASSI fever, and so those clues are not in any way ambiguous or, to my mind, unfair.

    [Nice to meet you in York, by the way. I hope you enjoyed the event.]

72. Gosh. Thanks both.

    I’ve been out enjoying myself and I’m looking forward to devouring this blog. For the record I enjoyed the puzzle without understanding it all. (Wagner anybody?)

73. Lord Jim: Of course I realise that there is no such rock! I’m just saying that I have entered in grids some strange-looking words that were meant to be antelopes or some such, but the crossers and the fodder meant that I couldn’t be sure which way they would go (ORIBI or ORIBA, for example, just a few days ago – though in that instance there was a crossing letter at the end). It’s frustrating when that happens, because I don’t like having to look in dictionaries or search engines if my general knowledge can’t supply the answer. I realise it’s unrealistic to expect the wordplay to always provide a unique solution, so it’s not a big gripe, and I certainly wouldn’t want to involve the indirect anagram police.

    [Good to meet you too, though I apologise for having to leave without saying goodbye to people, as I had to dash for my train after spending too much time chatting with Enigmatist.]

74. Lord Jim (you’ll certainly have a point) and sheffield hatter:
    I had to think of that old Stones song, I’m just sittin’ on a fence …….

75. ParadigmShifter @70 – funny you should mention that – I did a quick search for obsidian on Google trends to test its obscurity and was surprised to see a big spike in popularity in the last couple of years. On further investigation, I discovered that spike is down to Minecraft-related searches.

    I can’t imagine it going down too well with the regular crowd here if setters started using Minecraft references in puzzles… 😉

76. Very late to this party but just wanted to record how brilliant I thought this puzzle was. Technically a DNF as I had to cheat on JUNE, but I was thoroughly absorbed throughout. Thanks to Picaroon and to mc_rapper for an excellent blog.

77. Thanks for all the ongoing comments – even if we did get side-tracked on a bit of a philosophical discussion about ‘indirect anagrams’ and ‘visible letters’…to paraphrase: ‘You say obsidian, I say obsadian, lassi call the whole thing off’!

    Interesting to see a couple more commenters – wynsum at #64 and Martin Scribbler at #76 – also ending up with SOLE/JUNE…

    Lord Jim at #33 – I neglected to compliment you on your achievement of solving this on the train ‘after a few beers’!…In the good old commuting days (Waterloo for me) I always used to make sure I had a puzzle or two on me, and the best thing about solving drunk is you can wake up in the morning and go ‘How did I solve that?’…and do it all again, if you so wish!…)

    Anyway, onwards and upwards…new puzzles to solve, and I will see you all again in four weeks’ time.

78. Came to this late. Thought it was up with finest. Pic at his very best and a work of sheer genius to get it all in and so a super blog

79. It took me almost as long to get SOLE (loi) as it did to get the rest.

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