Guardian Cryptic 28,645 by Nutmeg

90 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 28,645 by Nutmeg”

1. 26 especially nice given an old US slang term for money – “doremi.”

2. Thanks for clarifying the parsing of these. I’m not sure that I understand 18a, even after your explanation; “LEM” is not a term I’ve encountered,and neither is “LEMMA”. I guess this was just not going to be my day.

3. Thanks Nutmeg for another satisfying crossword. My favourites included THE SCREAM, DIGIT, DERMATITIS, OR SO, and the very clever PALINDROME. I needed a look-up for DOSH, unfamiliar to me. As always, the silky smooth surfaces added greatly to my enjoyment. Thaks PeterO for the early blog.

4. I’m not convinced about EDGE for force. Never mind. There was so much to enjoy: some lovely anagrams such as HALLUCINATES, the sly ‘superficial’ in the definition for DERMATITIS, and the glorious PALINDROME.

   Thanks Nutmeg and PeterO

5. tuliporturnip @1: first time I’ve head that, thought I’ve encountered the ‘word’ in the title of the Hawkwind album Doremi Fasol Latido – which is my mnemonic, should I need it, for the tonic scale. Though the additional H is not something I’m used to. Ditto all the elements of LEMMA (bar the shortened ‘man’) which made this a dnf. I haven’t seen EDGE equated with force before and haven’t yet found it in a dictionary but am sure it will turn up.

   I loved the anagrams for HALLUCINATES and BITTER LEMONS, the construction of both RETALIATE and PREMIERED and the misdirect in THE SCREAM. The runner up prize goes to the frigate changing direction with COTD to the splendid PUTTING GREEN: two words (OK, maybe three) of wordplay and a brilliant definition.

   Thanks Nutmeg and PeterO

6. I like a bit of spice and this colourful puzzle provided that today – we could add red in PREMIERED at 15a to the colours, PeterO. I agree with Tony Santucci@3 and yesyes@4 regarding PALINDROME at 8d and DERMITITIS at 14d – great clues! To these favourites I would like to add 12a PUTTING GREEN and 13d SPELLBOUND (great old film too!!!). I worked out 18a LEMMA though I had to come here to be sure my guess was right, so I was with GregfromOz@2 in not knowing that word. My thanks to Nutmeg and PeterO.

7. [Took too long to type so crossed with PostMark@5, thus the lack of acknowledgement of similarities.]

8. I’ve been stymied a few times recently so it was reassuring to get through this one at a steady pace with no checks or cheats and lots of smiles on the way. I think I learned about lemmas at about the same time as the lunar landing, so perhaps that’s why both rose to the surface when called for. Much to like, most of my favourites have been mentioned. I like to think the first part of the wordplay in 11dn is “How old prisoner is” giving AGE OF CON, leaving just “transported” for SENT. Very concise, no link words – satisfying.

9. Sometimes when moving something big and heavy with a crowbar, we would describe it as edging it over/in usually followed by SLOWLY

10. SWOP looks wrong. I’ve always written SWAP, but Chambers has both so who am I to complain. Also not sure about EDGE as force.

    Otherwise no quibbles and enjoyable. Thanks Nutmeg and PeterO.

11. JinA beat me to it with the RED; there’s also CREAM in SCREAM. Which is also a film (or four, going on five) to go with SPELLBOUND and TROY, not forgetting Helen Mirren at 11d.

    Edging someone out = forcing them out, perhaps?

    Silky smooth overall as previously said. In fact so silky smooth it slipped down quicker than either Vulcan or the Quiptic yesterday. Not complaining; thanks N & P.

12. I thought this a bit of a curate’s egg, with some lovely clues – many pointed out above – with some dubious or forced (no pun intended) parsing – also mentioned in previous comments. The definition for AGE OF CONSENT was rather coy, was it not? Thanks, Nutmeg and PeterO.

13. After yesterday i was determined not to check answers which is a shame as I hurriedly wrote BYRE in the bottom right
    Apologies to setter for not paying enough attention

14. Ended up cheating a couple here: LEMMA was unknown to me and I couldn’t parse it either, and I never knew there was an actual plant called a DESERT ROSE (a species of adenium, apparently). I too would have a question mark for EDGE=force – I had SET ON FIRE for some time.

    But the faults were mine, not Nutmeg’s, and I enjoyed the misdirections in HALLUCINATES (Achilles’ aunt? who she?) and THE SCREAM, also PALINDROME , PROFLIGATE, UP TO, DIGIT.

15. First Nutmeg of the year, and I sincerely hope that there will be many more. As usual, lots of splendid clues: I especially liked ‘The Scream’ and ‘Dermatitis’, as well as ‘Palindrome’, but, really, there are too many good clues to pick from.
    Happier New Year to everyone.

16. BAPS at 1 down had me from the off reminiscing about bacon butties in my Northern English early days, not to mention barms.
    essexboy beat me to cream in THE SCREAM.
    Chambers (2014) has “edge” as “to move or push gradually” but it’s a bit of a long bow to ‘force’. Happy for more enlightenment.

17. Oh, and being a rocket scientist I didn’t have any problem with LEMMA.

18. Edge – possibly force as in edge someone towards doing something.. but not convinced either.

19. I justified edge via “edge out”.

    I feel like there’s a theme in the longer ones but don’t know what.

20. Maybe se(TONE)dge as well, though not strictly the same as colour. This was good fun with MAPLE, PALINDROME and PUTTING GREEN as favourites. Like Gladys @14, I had SET ON FIRE before the nice PREMIERED put me right. I also thought as CROSSBAR @10, that SWOP looked wrong. After Manchester Utd’s dismal performance last night, I imagine many of the fans had a similar expression on their faces to Munch’s THE SCREAM.

    Ta Nutmeg & PeterO

21. I found the last few Nutmegs ever so slightly disappointing, but this one was well up to her highest standard IMHO, with clever constructions, some sneaky definitions and shiny surfaces.

    Plaudits for PALINDROME, DERMATITIS, BITTER LEMONS (cf Paul Giamatti’s comment in the film ‘Sideways’) and DOSH.

    I agree with KLColin @8 about the parsing of 11dn. It reminds me of the telegram which a journalist sent to the actor’s agent: HOW OLD CARY GRANT? The reply was OLD CARY GRANT FINE. HOW YOU?

    Many thanks to S&B

22. Thanks Nutmeg and PeterO
    Almost every clue was a favourite, but I must just single out PUTTING GREEN.
    I wasn’t convinced by EDGE either, and “sue” for APPLY seemed a bit of a stretch.

23. I think I’ve spotted something here, some references to the band Siouxsie and the Banshees…

    1a could be an oblique reference to their single Cities In Dust
    19a – is the title of their debut album
    13d – is the title of one of their most famous singles

    …but then you have 11d which is the title of a Bronski Beat album. So I think there’s something musical from a particular time in the 80s going on. Either that or a coincidence.

24. PostMark @5: I thought LEMMA was great in Hawkwind.

25. Love Nutmeg. Always great fun. Thanks both.

26. Lovely puzzle!

    I was glad to see I wasn’t the only one to have failed on LEMMA.

    Lots of ticks but top favourites were PUTTING GREEN, THE SCREAM, HALLUCINATES and PALINDROME – all beautiful surfaces and constructions. (And I grinned as I remembered that telegram, too, Gervase.)

    Many thanks, Nutmeg and PeterO.

27. [AlanC @24: 😀
    Apologies to everyone else but you’ve forced my hand. Herewith Silver Machine featuring Lemmy (and Stacia) from 1972]

28. If you look long enough, you will come to the sixth entry for EDGE in the OED … “To force (something) by imperceptible degrees …”, supporting nicbach@9.
    Why no controversy from the numerists yet about 24a? UP TO and LESS THAN are not the same.

29. Another SET ON FIRE here for 5dn which seemed preferable to the right answer to me, but for the rest I agree with everyone’s favourites. I was convinced DOSH was going to be a synonym for toilet.

30. Some very good clues here. I especially liked PAINDROME, THESCREAM and MILL. However I’m doubtful about EDGE=force, and even more doubtful about DOH=tonic, which just doesn’t seem to work at all. Is there a sentence where one could directly substitute for the other?

    I also don’t see APPLY=sue in 25a. Perhaps someone could enlighten me.

31. poc @30: doh (otherwise spelled ‘do’) is the first note of a musical scale, otherwise known as the tonic – mi is the mediant and so (or sol) is the dominant.

    To sue for peace is to apply for peace.

32. Nutmeg’s main strength seems to me to be somoothness of surfaces, which matters less to me than to some people, so while I find her puzzles generally fine, she isn’t among my top favourite setters. Here I did like DERMATITIS, PALINDROME and OR SO. LEMMA was an educated guess, but a good clue once understood.
    I share the doubts about EDGE, DOH and APPLY, and agree with VW@28 that UP TO commonly means “less than or equal to”. All these answers were obvious enough though.
    Thanks PeterO and Nutmeg.

33. Favourites: PALINDROME, AGE OF CONSENT

    New for me: LEMMA (and did nto parse it apart form MA[n]; DOSH = money; 5d EDGE = force? and DESERT ROSE (well-clued)

    Failed DYKE.

    Thanks, both.

34. [PM @27: I knew you wouldn’t let me down + your link yesterday had me listening to the ‘proper’ Genesis into the early hours 🙂 ]

35. I’m slightly surprised that LEMMA is unfamiliar to so many: it is of course half of a DILEMMA.

36. Well done Gervase @ 31 – you should open a “225 squared” (15^4) page :O)

    “solfa in (‘tonic’ solfa) ” , do ra mi ‘fa so la’? ti do is still a mystery however.

    18 and 26 were both beyond me!

37. I totally agree with KLColin @8’s reading of AGE OF CONSENT: “How old prisoner is” is a far better fit for “AGE OF CON”. And all those who struggled to equate EDGE with “force”

38. For the origin of the names of the notes in the tonic solfa system see: href=”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solf%C3%A8ge”>

39. Just to keep van Winkle @ 28 happy: I’m not convinced by DIGIT = any number. Only an infinitesimal fraction of numbers consist of a single digit.

40. beaulieu @32; it seems to me that part of the art of a setter is to make smooth, meaningful surfaces, something that Nutmeg excels at. It takes a lot more time to make a polished surface than one that just says A+B=C without regard to how it reads.

    I particularly enjoyed PALINDROME, PUTTING GREEN and BITTER LEMONS. I agree that edge=force is a bit of a stretch, although Wiktionary has this: (figuratively) To make sharp or keen; to incite; to exasperate; to goad; to urge or egg on.

    Thanks Nutmeg and PeterO.

41. Sorry, my attempt at a link got scambled 🙁

42. Nice one, Andrew @35. I was familiar with the term (just the second time that my maths degree has been of any use in the last 50 years) but never made the connection with dilemma! So I presume a diagnostic is someone who believes that there is no way of proving the existence of either god?

43. Really liked PUTTING GREEN, THE SCREAM and PALINDROME. But defeated by DAPPLE GREY and DYKE today. Hadn’t come across LEMMA before so had to look that one up. Thanks PeterO and Nutmeg…

44. …and Crossbar@10, I’m another Swap person, rather than today’s SWOP, which of course it had to be from the cluing…

45. There’s an old story about a maths lecturer saying, “Before we prove the main theorem, we shall prove two lemmata.” The students then said, “Oh dear! What can lemmata be?”

46. Good to see the consistently excellent Nutmeg back today. There were some gentle likeable misdirections: THE SCREAM, PREMIERED, DIGIT, PALINDROME, and DERMATITIS.

    I too thought SET ON FIRE first before PREMIERED put me right.

    LEMMA was a write-in for me although I felt Nutmeg could have helped the arts majors out there since neither LEMMA nor “lunar excursion module” is commonly encountered if you’re not the sciencey type.

    Thanks both.

47. blaise @42: “…who believes that there is no way of proving the existence of either Him or Her?” 😉

48. Gervase@31: Thanks. I’m aware of “tonic sol-fa” of course, but hadn’t know that “doh” represents the tonic of any scale, rather than specifically C major.

49. Lovely puzzle, except for DIGIT (see bear@39). What, for example, would eleven be?

50. VW @28 – in computer science, specifically programming languages, LESS THAN and UP TO can be both used to denote a sequence of numbers leading up to a number eg for i up to n or while i < n, which both mean for a starting value of i, keeping increasing it until you reach n (some languages include n when using UP TO and therefore you need to know whether it’s an inclusive or exclusive UP TO). Whilst this may be of little comfort to non-programmers, I mention it as a possible explanation because I vaguely remember reading that Nutmeg worked with computers before retiring.

51. DrW @49 – eleven would be a double DIGIT number 🙂

52. Good fun! I particularly liked PUTTING GREEN and AGE OF CONSENT.

    I share the many reservations about edge =force

    Thanks Nutmeg and PeterO

53. pdp11 @50 I’m intrigued – which languages would use < inclusively? Most modern languages have something like < and <= to distinguish the difference

    DOSH was one of those annoying clues where you can see the answer but can't justify it via Chambers or even google – well I couldn't 🙂

    Did find lot's of Homer Simpson links though so not a complete WOT

54. lots!!!

55. DOH as tonic is fine, but where did the H come from? I’ve always seen it as DO.

    Thanks for parsing AGE OF CONSENT, Peter, I got nowhere with that one.

    PostMark@5 Doremi for money calls to mind Woody Guthrie’s song about the difficulties the Dust Bowl migrants faced when they arrived at their destination: “California’s a garden of Eden, A paradise to live in or see, But believe it or not, you won’t find it so hot If you ain’t got the do-re-mi.” I’ve always assumed that Woody coined the expression, but maybe it was already current.

    I worked on the LEM in the 60’s at a lowly job at an aircraft company, where it would take me all day to produce a graph that a computer now would produce in seconds.

    I believe that SWOP is the British spelling, “swap” the American one. It’s familiar to me from years of British detective stories.

    Seems to me that if I’m ON EDGE I’m less excited than nervous, no?

    Nice one, Blaise@42!

    Thanks, Nutmeg and PeterO, for a pleasant evening.

56. Thanks PeterO, I had no idea how to get DOH from “tonic” (and thanks others for further fleshing out) and didn’t know what LEM meant. Nearly fell foul of a plant for the second time today but wisely decided that there couldn’t be anything called a REJECT MORE and then DESERT came to mind because of that discussion on RAT not long ago. Thanks various people for the edge=force equivalence which beats my best guess of an abrasive rugby player adding an aggressive edge/force to his/her team’s play.
    Valentine@55 like all Hawkwind fans I wasn’t familiar with an H in DOH but suppose it does at least help clarify it as rhyming with THOUGH not THROUGH. See eg the Irish classroom photo illustration on the Wikipedia entry for “tonic sol-fa”. And how remarkable that you worked on the moon landings! [Also thank you PostMark@24 but I will have to wait until later as Stacia is likely to prove a distraction from work.]
    Lots of enjoyment with a special mention to BIT THE DUST, Thanks Nutmeg.

57. bodycheetah @53 – I was thinking of UP TO being inclusive or exclusive (rather than <). Ruby uses upto to be inclusive. But when describing while loops some people use up to to be exclusive eg see here.

58. Valentine @55: thanks for the Guthrie lyric. I guess that could be based on ‘do’ for ‘dough’ with the ‘re-mi’ following on as a whimsical extension?

59. Everybody has overlooked Nutmeg herself, Random Colors; Designers Guild Nutmeg / #83654e Hex Color Code. Thank you Nutmeg for a colourful puzzle and PeterO for a helpful blob.

60. Nice crossword, parsed most but glad PeterO has completed them – so thanks to him and Nutmeg – but why is ‘serving men’ OR?

61. Then of course there is the meaning of UP TO as used by advertisers: “Grand Sale! Everything up to 50% off!” which allows them to offer the smallest/fewest discounts they can get away with.

62. grrr, that was accidental ‘blog’

63. Good fun, although DOSH defeated me. I did think of it earlier, but couldn’t make it work – opted for DOSE as a guess in the end. Could only half-parse LEMMA but knew the word, so in it went.

    Thanks Nutmeg and PeterO

64. Me @69 – Other Ranks!!! D’oh

65. Me @60, sorry!

66. Cookie @59
    I was amused by your typo. At least, I take it that it was a typo ….

    I think UP TO is ambiguous; if I felt it important to make the distinction, I would say something like “up to but not/and including”.
    The Wikipedia article (Gervase @38) points out that DO (or DOH; the article shows two pictures using the latter spelling) is, as poc @48 indicates, generally the tonic in whatever key is being sung.

67. I love a Tuesday Nutmeg (Friday Nutmegs tend to be hard work).

    PALINDROME was marvellous, and I quite enjoyed MAPLE, because ‘up tree’= ELM is playfully daft by Nutmeg’s stringent standards.

68. Thanks for the blog, not my cup of tea but will not labour the point. Perhaps we are getting payback for last week.

69. DrW @61 – I wonder why, in the advertiser arm’s race, no one has offered “up to 100% off” or, since there’s no limit to their hyperbole, “up to 200% off”?!

70. I’m glad (thank you, yesyes @4) that I’m not alone in being a bit sceptical of edge = force.
    Kicking myself for not getting DOSH
    But those are really the only slight niggles in a puzzle that was fairly tough but fair, and contained some real delights – RETALIATE, PREMIERED, BITTER LEMONS, DAPPLE GREY, BAPS, DIGIT, PALINDROME, DERMATITIS and especially PUTTING GREEN.
    The wry definition of putting green as “links, to some extent” reminded me of a family holiday in Scotland fifty years ago when I was able to say with complete truth that I had managed a hole in one at St Andrews.
    Thanks to Nutmeg and to PeterO.
    And especial thanks to AlanC@20 for the image of the fans of Marketing Unlimited FC resembling the painting by Munch.

71. Bear+of+little+brain @39 – I think the clue was alluding to a DIGIT being a number (any one-digit number) rather than any number is a DIGIT. Whether that works for you, the answer was obvious, which in my books is a successful clue 😉

72. In belated reply to VW@28, 24 had me laughing out loud. Nutmeg has cleverly (I’m sure not inadvertently) called out the infuriating use of “up to” not in maths but in marketing. It’s just one of several phrases I’d like to get outlawed (“UP TO 50% OFF!!, YOU’LL LOOK UP TO TWICE AS PRETTY!!).

73. Thanks Nutmeg and PeterO – I lean towards the majority view on this one, with PUTTING GREEN and PALINDROME as favourites. Guessed at LEMMA from the crossing letters – one of those words I’ve come across before but couldn’t really tell you what it means. The parsing is clear enough when you see it spelled out.

74. PeterO @66, I have to wear gloves in winter when using the computer since the room is so cold and the G is just above the B on the keyboard… apologies

75. widdersbel @73 a lemma is roughly a minor result ( originally ) that needs to be proved on the way to proving a more major theorem.
    Over time some lemmas have become more important than the theorem they were used to prove.

76. Valentine@55 only just realized what you meant. Do you know which LEM you worked on ? Or several?
    Incredible to think of it.

77. Thanks Nutmeg and PeterO.

    A shade too much GK here with SPELLBOUND and DESERT ROSE asking a lot to be conjured from the wordplay but a mere quibblet in what was otherwise very enjoyable for me. (PeterO: I doubt anyone will be misled but there is a missing “x” under DIGIT.)

    [The discussion of the tonic sol-fa system sparked by DOSH brings into focus the array of methodologies used by musicians to communicate musical ideas. The most incomprehensible of consequences arises in the francophone world (and elsewhere?) whereby notes are named (doh, re, mi etc) in terms of their position in relation to the C scale but retain that name regardless of the key involved. I suppose that it cannot be an insurmountable problem, and possibly makes as much sense as C,D,E etc, but someone somewhere surely (apart from me) must feel it’s time for a major overhaul of the musical notation system so that an international standard can be set. An approach based on a duodecimal system could be a contender. Rant over.]

78. I’m amazed I got 18 across. Like others I’d never heard the word, nor the first bit of the fodder. However, I did get “man docked”, so with a bit of research, I managed to put the right word in. I needed to look up a list of Hitchcock’s films to complete 13 down (and get a start for 18 across), otherwise an enjoyable solve, so thanks to setter and blogger.

79. Cookie @74
    No apology needed. I would guess that you do not use a touch screen.

    Alphalpha @77
    Thank you. I have now put the x back in sex. I usually start the blog over dinner, and have been known to spill my glass of wine, which I discover is not good for keyboards. Consequently, I use a knockabout chromebook; following the Great Law of Resistentialism, since I do not care much about it, I have avoided splashing the unit. Even without that assistance, the keyboard is getting flaky, and the x key is definitely shy.

80. PtrO@79: B thankful it’s not th “”.

81. erike44 @78
    I remember Hitchcock’s Spellbound for various things: Salvador Dali’s dream sequence, the use of a theramin in the Miklós Rózsa score and that Gregory Peck appears to go skiing in a three-piece suit.

82. Thanks both,
    Being a Lincolnshire lad, where a ‘dyke’ is a ditch, 27a helped me get 23d.

83. It’s all been said about EDGE. I did maths so LEMMA not a problem. Didn’t get the LEM meaning though. Apart for that a quick solve here.
    Thanks both

84. I really enjoyed this one, Tuesday strength I found, were there to be an incremental scale from Monday to Fri/Sat. A few I missed, DASH of tonic with your drink didn’t look right, LEMMA was a bit too unusual.
    Bitter Lemon is an official colour, as is Desert. There’s also Rose Dust. Strangely Maple is not listed.

    Thanks Nutmeg, enjoyed this. Thanks also to PeterO for pointing out my limitations.

    Maybe we should ask for a midweek scorcher for Roz. The Wicked Wednesday puzzle.

85. I feel duty bound to add APPLE to the list. Like Skinny @23, SPELLBOUND suggested a Siouxsie and the Banshees theme might be going on, so I missed the colours in the end.
    BITTER LEMONS reminded me of this scene, but I see I’ve misremembered the actual order, as did the great Basil.
    Nice puzzle, but at the easier end of Nutmeg’s range, for my money. Thanks, Nutmeg and PeterO.

86. @21 More on this likely apocryphal attribution here: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/10/30/how-old-cary-grant/

87. Jeremy Marchant @86 – many thanks for that!

88. pdp11@71: I quite agree. The clue was eminently gettable. As I said, I was just trying to keep vW happy. (Given your moniker, do vW grammars mean anything to you?)

89. PostMark@58 That’s my guess, that the do in do-re-mi is “dough,” which would be true whether it was Woody Guthrie’s coinage or an expression that already existed.

    Roz@76 I have no idea which LEM I was connected to on a chain of many links. I was just a lowly engineering aide at Hamilton Standard, where they were making not the LEMs themselves but various components.. They ran tests on everything they made, including LEM bits, and the results came out on long scrolls of paper with wave patterns on them which the things being tested had made as they vibrated. My job was to measure the amplitudes of the waves at various frequencies, using a ruler marked in fiftieths of an inch. Took all day. But although they told us we were working on LEM projects, I don’t remember that anybody said which LEM thingy we were measuring. It was in the mid-sixties, if that helps to decide which one.

90. It is still historic Valentine, you may have worked on something that actually landed on the moon. There were nine in total , the Lem for Apollo 9 and 10 and 13 did not actually land.

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