I really struggled with this one, but I think it has some really marvellous clues. Thanks, Picaroon!
In particular, I liked HAND-ME-DOWN and MELONS, but there were lots of great clues here.
Across
8. One falters lamely, being so? (8)
FRAILEST
(I FALTERS)*
Definition: “being so?” in the context of the whole clue
9. Picaroon stops craving lucre, which is forgivable (6)
VENIAL
I = “Picaroon” in VENAL = “craving lucre”
Definition: “which is forgivable” (as in “venial sin” as opposed to “mortal sin”
10. Disapproved of skirt shortened by 1950s’ teenager (6)
TUTTED
TUT[u] = “skirt shortened” + TED = “1950’s teenager”
Definition: “Disapproved”
11. Broadcast publicity about horrible vacuous fools (8)
AIRHEADS
AIR = “Broadcast” + ADS = “publicity” around H[orribl]E = “horrible vacuous”
Definition: “fools”
12. Excited remark from man entertained by compilers (4)
WHEE
HE = “man” in WE = “compilers”
Definition: “Excited remark”
13. Old Scottish side admitting wild riot in showers (10)
EXHIBITORS
EX = “Old” + HIBS (Hibernian FC) around (RIOT)*
Definition: “showers” (they show things)
15. Daisy knocked over football team’s comic character (7)
ASTERIX
ASTER = “Daisy” + XI (eleven) = “football team” reversed (“knoced over”)
Definition: “comic character” (Asterix the Gaul)
16. Televises bits of rock by pair of players (7)
SCREENS
SCREE = “bits of rock” and NS = “pair of players” (North and South in bridge)
Definition: “Televises”
18. Old garment from clothes shop with vulture’s tail feathers (4-2-4)
HAND-ME-DOWN
H AND M (H&M) = “clothes shop” + [vultur]E = “vulture’s tail” + DOWN = “feathers”. A great clue, I think – HANDM from “clothes shop” is very nice, and the surface reading is so smooth.
Definition: “Old garment”
19. Husband clad in green waves coming back (4)
ECHO
H = “Husband” in ECO = “green”
Definition: “waves coming back” (sound waves typically)
20. Like irrational tirade for an ambitious type (8)
ASPIRANT
AS = “Like” + PI = “irrational” (you might say “pi is an irrational”, instead of the fuller “pi is an irrational number”) + RANT = “tirade”
Definition: “an ambitious type”
22. Billionaire into S&M rejected seedy things (6)
MELONS
ELON (Musk) = “Billionaire” in S&M reversed – another excellent clue
Definition: “seedy things”
23. Strip joint that’s sordid by street (6)
DIVEST
DIVE = “joint that’s sordid” + ST = “street”
Definition: “Strip”
24. Writer wearing nothing with cape is being revealing (8)
OPENNESS
PEN = “Writer” in O = “nothing + NESS = “cape”
Definition: “being revealing”
Down
1. Skill in designing board game — piece on the board’s with it (15)
DRAUGHTSMANSHIP
DRAUGHTS = “board game” + MAN = “piece on the board” (in chess) + HIP = “with it”
Definition: “Skill in designing”
2. Assault school’s leader and punishment is to be reported (3,3,9)
HIT THE HEADLINES
HIT = “Assault” + THE HEAD = “school’s leader” + LINES = “punishment”
Definition: “to be reported”
3. Engineers made oddly smooth info for IT user (6,4)
README FILE
RE (Royal Engineers) = “Engineers” + (MADE)* + FILE = SMOOTH
Definition: “info for IT user”
4. Specialist on staff cheers up, given facial adornment (7)
ATTACHE
TA = “cheers” (as in “thank you!”) reversed + TACHE (moustache) = “facial adornment”
Definition: “Specialist on staff”
5. Fans removing clothing in part of game (4)
OVER
[l]OVER[s] = “Fans removing clothing”
Definition: “part of game” (referring to an over in cricket)
6. During school, outcast turned up advanced means of deterring pests (6,9)
INSECT REPELLENT
IN = “During” + SECT = “school” + LEPER = “outcast” reversed + LENT = “advanced”
Definition: “means of deterring pests”
7. Involved in anarchism, need lingo of Communists (8,7)
MANDARIN CHINESE
(IN ANARCHISM NEED)*
Definition: “lingo of Communists”
14. Old issue, either of two in Marxism-Leninism? (4,6)
BACK NUMBER
marXISm and lENINism have the numbers six and nine reversed in them, both “back numbers”
Definition: “Old issue”
17. What follows 19 is to confuse revolutionary (7)
FOXTROT
FOX = “to confuse” + TROT = “revolutionary”
Definition: “What follows ECHO” (in the NATO phonetic alphabet)
21. Perhaps pretentious political group out of power (4)
ARTY
[p]ARTY = “political group” without P = “power”
Definition: “Perhaps pretentious”
The Saturday treats continue – I thought this was an excellent puzzle. I tried the four long phrases to start with and got 1d and 6d, but 2d and 7d had to wait until much later.
Among many good clues I picked out EXHIBITORS, MELONS, DIVEST, OPENNESS, BACK NUMBER and FOXTROT as favourites, but now that I have seen all the parsing of HAND-ME-DOWN (some of which I missed) I will add that to my list.
Thanks to Picaroon and mhl.
I agree with mhl and Alan B@1 – some lovely clues. I liked the “politicial” clues for 17d FOXTROT, 7d MANDARIN CHINESE, 14d BACK NUMBER (which reminded me of how Trotsky met his demise!) and 21d ARTY, in which I thought Picaroon sparkled. Other favourites were 23a DIVEST, my LOI, and 2d HIT THE HEADLINES. I am not used to spelling 1d DRAUGHTSMANSHIP like that but no matter. Huge thanks to Picaroon for a really likeable puzzle and to mhl for the blog, which helped to explain a couple like 18a HAND-ME-DOWN (some of the sense of which I had also missed, Alan B.) and 4d ATTACHE.
Was lucky enough to get 1 and 2 down almost immediately, so that gave me a massive leg-up into the rest of it. Could not see the parsing of BACK NUMBERS, so thanks for elucidating.
Well, well, well! I had a completely different solution for 17D: COITION. How so? Well, what comes after 19? SCORE, of course. But it’s in the cluing that Picaroon was so ingenious. Take Is TO CON and fuse them revolutionary-like and what do you get? It’s all very unseemly, I grant you, but …
Enjoyed the tussle, thanks Picaroon, and thanks mhl
JohnH what nonsense, really.
A fine puzzle. for me.
Very nice, but took me 3 sittings. Was gutted by TUTTED but otherwise fared pretty well. FOXTROT is one of those that is so simple in retrospect, but can take a long time to see, due to the multiple layers. Can’t choose a fave, all so good.
Really!
Thanks mhl. I agree, another fine and enjoyable puzzle but it didn’t take me nearly as long as Boatman’s the previous week. Unlike Bodge @ 3 I needed pretty well all the crossers before 1 and 2 yielded.
Thanks mhl. The bottom half went in soon enough and then the long down clues. That still left a good few challenges. I especially like the ‘showers’ as definition for 13A; last in was README FILE. the surfaces all read smoothly and sometimes humorously: good work Picaroon.
Thanks Picaroon, that was excellent. A few of the many favourites I had included AIRHEADS, ASPIRANT, DIVEST, BACK NUMBER, and MELON. (I would love to see a clue for muskmellon!) I needed a word finder for DRAUGHTSMANSHIP because I had forgotten that checkers are known as draughts in Britain. I never could figure out README FILE. Thanks mhl for the blog.
My last two in, which I didn’t get until I went back to the puzzle yesterday, were README FILE and FOXTROT – both of which are great.
Also liked VENIAL, EXHIBITORS, INSECT REPELLENT, ASPIRANT but as others have said there were so many good clues it is hard to pick favourites.
Thanks Picaroon and mhl
As we now have H&M in Oz I didn’t have an excuse that I hadn’t heard of it. A great clue along with all four long down ones.
I enjoyed this one. Took me two sessions, which I prefer, but I was diverted trying to justify RODENT REPELLANT instead of INSECT, misspelling Roedean as the school bit.
Thanks Picaroon and mhl
I dock myself three quarters of a point for managing to parse the clue correctly for TUTTED, remembering the Britlocution TED, and *still* being stymied for the answer. I broke down and skimmed a thesaurus until I found TUTU. Ah, me.
Thanks Picaroon and mhl!
The quickest yet most enjoyable solve of the week for me. Not especially easy, but no words or meanings I wasn’t familiar with. LOI and favourite was FRAILEST.
Thanks for the blog, a lot of fine clues here, I will add to the praise for HAND-ME-DOWN, I also liked TUTTED and EXHIBITORS.
Had to frown at 8Ac for the indirect anagram , I nearly 10AC . README FILE is such an ugly phrase and unknown to me but the clue was very fair, I suppose the grid is often awkward at one place.
I have to say I thought this should have been a midweek puzzle, I prefer Saturday to last a lot longer.
Liked 18ac.
I could not parse 14d.
New: HIBS = Hibernian Football Club (for 13ac).
Thanks, both.
Thanks Picaroon and mhl. Very enjoyable. I had the same favourites as everyone else, but will add ATTACHE to those.
Clever. Entertaining. Just right.
Thank you Picaroon and mhl.
In contrast to yesterday’s easy Picaroon, I had to return to this on numerous occasions but definitely worth the effort. Loved BACK NUMBERS and MANDARIN CHINESE. Back on form again, I see, tlp @5.
Ta Picaroon & mhl
This was a delight: needing two heads and much afterthought here. Great clueing. I especially liked the datedness of some of the answers. Whole open-plan areas were full of engineering and technical drawers known as DRAUGHTSMEN of all genders in the 70s. And I guess README FILEs have their own era of prominence. Yes, I tried COITION and CONTROL amongst other conCOCTIONs before finally twigging FOXTROT. Thanks, mhl, for parsing BACK NUMBER for me … another somewhat dated expression. ASTERIX and DIVEST among many favourites.
When I was learning Chinese (donkeys years ago) it was called Modern Standard Chinese. Is it Ok to call it Mandarin again now?
Another superb puzzle from Picaroon. Thanks.
And thanks for the blog, too, mhl.
What a strange grid with all but three of the Down clues starting on the first line.
No chance of being original today; I am joining a modest crowd in tipping HAND-ME-DOWN as my favourite. I do love those solutions that incorporate ‘AND’ – and only occasionally spot them. Despite JohnH’s valiant attempt @4 to submit coition, FOXTROT is beautifully defined and BACK NUMBER is a brilliant spot in such a well known term. I also enjoyed ECHO for its simplicity. molonglo particularly admired ‘showers’ @9 and others have ticked it: I spent some time wondering whether ‘Exhibitors’ might have been an old Scottish football team?
With which confession, I think it’s great when someone here occasionally shares how they were led up a garden path (not just a lesson from which to learn but probably nice for setters to know they’ve bamboozled someone). So JohnH@4, thanks for sharing and ignore the retort from thelastplantagenet@5 whose comment – when he felt similarly stung last week – included fair enough, but perhaps you might have articulated it in a more pleasant manner, even where, possibly, what with humour often so difficult to detect in print alone, you were trying to be funny. Which, I feel could have applied to his comment today.
Thanks Picaroon and mhl
Anna @22: yes, in the International Baccalaureate Diploma it is ‘Mandarin’ and has been for as long as Mrs Catflap has been involved in teaching and administering IB programmes, which is nigh on 20 years now.
The parsing of BACK NUMBERS was much too clever for me, and I just about remembered that a README FILE was a thing and that Hibs were a team and H and M was a shop – but I got there eventually.
This was tough and enjoyable; it took me several days to complete. Picaroon often has long words, which are my way in. Alas, I didn’t parse two of the best clues (BACK NUMBER and HAND-ME-DOWN) but the answers were fairly easy from the definition and enumeration.
I hadn’t realised README FILE had spread to the general public (and perhaps Roz’s comment indicates it hasn’t). I did check Chambers and it has the expression.
Anna@22 – My Chinese/HK friends say “Mandarin” (and “Cantonese”) and neither Chambers nor SOED says it’s offensive.
Thanks Picaroon and mhl for helping with several parsings.
Thanks Spooner’s catflap and pdp11
Pleased Mandarin is back.
Postmark @23 – I once pointed out a grid with eight 15-letter clues and almost as many 14-letter ones in the Indy. Eileen said that this set by Picaroon (under a different guise). Then widdersbel mentioned a Genius puzzle from Picaroon that consisted solely of fourteen 15-letter words and one 13-letter! (I did print that out and am still working on it – – slowly!).
Picaroon is the master of the innovative grid.
To clarify, Mandarin is a spoken form of the language (along with other dialects such as Cantonese, Hokkein, Shanghainese and a host of others). Chinese, the written form, is the same for all dialects as I understand it.
For those who’ve not heard of Hibs, I can recommend the Ian Rankin, John Rebus, novels.
Choldunk@21, I worked in a Stress Office (SO) in the 1980s and The Drawing Office (DO) was next door full of draughtsmen and draughtswomen and never the twain did meet. The rise of Concurrent Engineering later on broke down those walls.
JohnH@4 – if mhl had given your explanation for 17D, I’d probably have accepted it even though it wouldn’t have given me the PDM that FOXTROT did.
[ pdp@26 – README-FILE is not in my Chambers 93 and this is , of course, the definitive source for all crosswords . ]
[pdp11@28: as a very modest novice setter, I have discovered what a serious challenge a grid fill represents. I’ve admired many creations from a solver’s perspective and assumed it wouldn’t be easy.
But seeing it from the other side has simply increased my admiration of the setters. Even the clever software, including suggestions of words that will fit, doesn’t prevent one from running down blind alleys and ending up with either impossibilities or bizarre solutions. And that’s without trying to a) incorporate a theme or b) select lengthy solutions. Either of those constraints increase the difficulty on a geometric scale.]
Choldunk @21: Yes, I tried COITION and CONTROL amongst other … No-one can accuse you of not employing a broad – a very broad – range of approaches to the solve… 😀
Roz@31 I’m told that my 2014 Chambers, never mind 93 of which I still have a falling to pieces copy, is now not the standard for crosswords, and I should look at something online, whatever that means. Probably comes with a read-me-file.
[Roz@31 – I can attest to creating README FILES in 93 (yellow smiley face omitted).
PM@32 – as someone who has often stared at a blank sheet of paper to create something out of nothing (in my case software), I have great admiration for setters who do this day in day out with humour, themes and all the other flourishes we see in crosswords. We see it so often that it’s easy to not realise or under-appreciate the skill required. I occasionally smile when someone mentions a quibble (in what otherwise is a suberb crossword) knowing that the whole thing is a minor miracle in the first place!]
[Tim C @29: I’m a big fan of the Rebus novels. Alongside Hibs, he has an interesting taste in music].
Too late to add anything original – I concur with all the favourites.
After this from last Saturday, Picaroon yesterday and a super Rodriguez in the Indy today, we’re being well and truly spoilt!
Many thanks to setter and blogger.
I am another who enjoyed this. mhl I think you need to include the s from “board’s” in the parsing of DRAUGHTSMANSHIP.
A great puzzle which, unlike last week’s prize, had me almost completely baffled on a first read through with only a couple of answers filled in. Coming back to it got me HIT THE HEADLINES, which helped me along, but the other 15 letter down clues remained elusive. A third shot proved more successful and suddenly it all fell into place, with the exception of README FILE of which I’d never heard, and the wonderful FOXTROT which provoked an audible”Of course”.
DIVEST and EXHIBITORS were both lovely clues and I appreciated the parsing of BACK NUMBER
Many thanks to Picaroon and mhl for all of the fun, entertainment and elucidation.
I heartily concur with Mark @23 when he praises commenters here owning up to ridiculous errors. We all get things wrong at times, and it’s good to share those moments, especially if they can be made humorous.
I’ve nothing of that sort to share today, however, as this was right up my street, with the exception of the never-heard-of README FILE, which was impeccably clued and my last one in. I must admit that I didn’t attempt to parse BACK NUMBER, so thanks to mhl for that, as well as thanks to Picaroon for a great puzzle.
About a month ago we had – Nothing on course to relieve irritation – answer SCRATCH.
I immediately wrote in OATMEAL – O AT MEAL – it is also widely used in treatments for eczema.
Did not have to think again until I started entering all my Down answers.
[Roz @41: did your mother never tell you never to rush your food …?]
[ Mothers say a lot of things to annoy their children, I have become a world expert now ours are grown up. I do rush in the puzzles too much sometimes but it is actually quite rare that the wordplay and definition give something wrong that is plausible ]
I echo favourable comments made so far. I parsed OVER using HOVERS to mean fans, as in hovercraft, which I thought a bit odd at the time. Ms Womble pointed out the parsing of BACK NUMBER – very clever. Also spent some time wondering what the religious festival of LENT had to do with advanced. Duh.
I have to be honest, I didn’t enjoy the challenge of this one nearly as much as I would expect from Picaroon, who is generally one of my favourite setters.
I thought this was pretty much a Monday level write in, especially as the 4 long Down clues opened up just about everything else. Picaroon is never dull, but this wasn’t as entertaining as usual, in my view.
I loved BACK NUMBER: spotting six and nine reversed in ‘Marxism-Leninism’ is ver clever, and vaguely reminded me of a Jimi Hendrix song I haven’t listened to in decades.
A poster last week was praising this puzzle in contrast to the Boatman under discussion which they had slated. I disagreed then, and still do.
Thanks to Picaroon and mhl.
Another really enjoyable puzzle from Picaroon.
As I’ve said before, I tend to get the shorter solutions first, so the long ‘uns needed a few crossers, I seem to remember. Roz @31; here is the entry in Chambers: read?m? file noun (computing)
A text file supplied with computer software that contains information about the software, such as advice on installation and bugs.
I ticked EXHIBITORS, DIVEST and INSECT REPELLENT, and having the parsing of BACK NUMBER explained, I’ll add that one.
Thanks Picaroon and mhl.
Tim C @ 29
The written form isn’t exactly the same because the PRC introduced new ‘simplified’ forms for many radicals (and characters). Places like Singapore and Hong Kong never introduced these. Hence the characters can look different. It is ususally not too difficult to tell what a character is, though.
I’m sorry it has taken a long time to reply to you, but it has been just impossible to access this website. I don’t know why that happens.
When I did this yesterday I didn’t think README FILE would go down well with the punters.
Normally programmer-to-programmer usage, says a recovering IT consultant.
Thanks to setter and blogger.
Thanks to Picaroon and mhl.
That H&M is a clothes shop was my TILT from this – the rest was pure enjoyment. BACK NUMBERS came into focus like a really good present – gdnfk: wow!
PM@23: Well said. (How do you keep track? – chapeau.)
[Alphalpha @49: I remember the little stuff. The important stuff – that I actually need to recall – is generally somewhere other than in my mind!]
12a What did the snail say as it rode on the back of the turtle? “Whee!”
H&M were new to me, unlike M&S, so I googled it and now it’s a TILT.
Thanks for parsing BACK NUMBER, mhl, it was beyond me.
Why isn’t a Scottish football club the Caledonians? The Hibernians should be across the sea (not the ocean though).
Thanks to Picaroon and mhl for pleasant companionship last week and this morning.
Valentine @49. The club was founded in 1875 by members of Edinburgh’s Irish community, and named after the Roman word for Ireland. [There is a club in Inverness called Inverness Caledonian Thistle, and you can’t get much more Scottish than that!]
I found this very enjoyable. It took a couple of visits, but I got it all. Particularly admired BACK NUMBERS.
I had only heard of H&M because someone used it in a Guardian cluing competition. I’d never heard of it, so I looked into it and discovered that they only seem to have outlets in the South of England, mostly in Kent, as I recall. I’m surprised to learn that they also have shops in Aus. (Googling H&M UK locations today suggests that currently there are only three outside London).
README FILE was last in for me, although I recognised it when I got it, having seen a fair few. I had been perplexed because Chambers Word Wizard didn’t know it, so I think they must have included it fairly recently. (Tim C@34, consulting Chambers online wouldn’t help: the absolutely latest version can only be found in the form of a book or a purchased downloadable app). I don’t agree with Lippi@48, though, that they’re usually programmer-to-programmer; on the contrary, they’re usually programmer-to-user, to be read before installation of the software to which they relate No chance Roz was ever going to know it as these new-fangled computer thingies are, as all regulars know, beneath her.
The question raised by Anna@22 about MANDARIN CHINESE vs Modern Standard Chinese could easily be answered by Picaroon, since, as I happen to know, he is (or was) a schoolteacher of modern languages and Chinese is (or was) one he teaches (or taught).
[Roz @31 and others
My 12th edition of Chambers published 2011 has readme file defined as
a text file supplied with computer software that contains information about the software such as advice on installation and bugs]
Tony Collman – there are several branches of H&M in Prague, where I was living 10 years ago!
[Alphalpha and Valentine: What’s a TILT denoting?]
Thing I learnt today
[ Thanks Fiona Anne @ 54 – I am so glad it is not in the 1st edition ]
Spooner’s catflap@55. Thanks. That’s interesting and good to know (especially for the shareholders). Sadly, I’ve never (yet) made it to Prague, so it didn’t help. As I said, there only seem to be three UK branches outside the capital, although there are so many in London that, if that’s where you live, it would be no surprise if you thought everyone would have heard of them. Quite a few commenters seem not to have, though. Investigating further, they do seem to have a fairly strong online presence (including coverage for India and South Africa), so maybe they’re not as parochial as I have suggested?
[AlanC – Guardian obituary today – Ian Macdonald , writer and sax player on Court of the Crimson King. ]
Tony Collman @59
I don’t know where / how you were looking, but when I searched for H&M store locations & started counting them, I gave up at 20 and hadn’t come to the end of those in towns beginning B!
Tony C – it’s C&H (Closs & Hamblin) you’re thinking of that was used in the Guardian clueing comp. That is indeed a SE chain of haberdashers. H&M (Hennes & Moritz) is a clothing chain with an international footprint. (It wasn’t me who wrote that C&H clue, but I did join in the discussion – I use a different alias over there.)
[Roz @ 58
I suppose we love the edition we have. I got mine in May 2020 when I first started learning cryptic crosswords. It is a beautiful book and the first dictionary I have bought since at school]
Y’know:
The more I consider JohnH@4’s ‘coition’ (for FOXTROT) the more merit I see in it. Thankfully that’s not (generally) how cryptics work or there would be no takers. No expert in the history of our pastime but I think we have Ximenes to thank – yet in my ignorance I can see no Xian grammatical objection to ‘coition’.
[Ta Roz @60: 21st CSM sprang to mind as soon as I read your kind post]
Alphalpha @64 – there is a recent precedent for a clue having more than one valid solution – Methuselah in the Indy a few weeks back had exactly the same clue twice, with different solutions.
And Soup apparently once did a Guardian Genius where all the across lights were pairs of the same clue with different solutions. Which is mind-boggling.
Widdersbel@62, ah, thanks. I will have to search my profile to find your Graun name. Simon S@61, I think I just googled “H&M UK”. Can’t remember exactly, but whatever it was, it clearly wasn’t good enough!
Alphalpha@64, Filbert’s April Fool’s puzzle in the Indy last year would be worth a look.
Roz, thanks for the tipoff about Ian MacDonald. I still remember the first time I heard C21st Schizoid Man and the galvanising effect it had on me.
Btw, I used to consider my 1986 Chambers as representing the English language as it is and should forever be, but have been disabused of that notion since getting seriously into crosswords.
widdersbel @66 I posted on General Discussion last year, June 7th, about clues with two valid solutions. There was a special Ximenes crossword once using this idea.
AlanC and Tony, fortunately I have inherited all the early King Crimson albums , original vinyl Pink Island label.
Tony , my Chambers 93 is still the definitive source but setters sometimes forget this.
widdersbel@66: That is mind-boggling. (Anyone else getting from ‘Boggle(c)’ to ‘mind-boggling’ to ‘crossword-setting’?)
Tony Collman@67: Durned if I can find any way on the Independent site to navigate back to 1 April last.
Alphalpha @69
I have sent you a copy of the 1/4/21 Indy.
[Roz@68, I have the original Island release* of In the Court of the Crimson King, with ILPS 9111 A-4U and ILPS 9111 B-4U on the runout tracks of side 1 and side 2 respectively, and no printer information on the gatefold sleeve or the label (a distinguishing feature of the earliest release). Must have bought it in about 1971, although I can’t remember doing so. Unfortunately, it doesn’t have the ‘Plain, pale green inner sleeve with ‘I’ logo and “island records ltd basing street london w11” ‘. I might have bought it second-hand or … you know.]
*If you can get one of your minions to click this link, it will take you to the Discogs page about this album with full details.
[ Tony @71 , my parents bought it on the day it came out, they had seen them at Hyde Park. The easiest way to tell is the original LP had a solid pink label with just a white I symbol. Later had the traditional Island label with a pink rim. ]
Gaufrid@70: Beyond kind. I look forward to devouring it. Thanks so much.
[Roz@72, ah, didn’t know that. Mine has the pink rim on a white label. Discogs doesn’t say anything about the pink labels, I don’t think. I think it was probably 1970 when I first heard TFCSM at Bowes Lyon House, but I wouldn’t have bought it then, as 39/6 was more than I earned in my Saturday job at the time.]
Alphalpha, one of the themes of today’s Guardian Crossword Blog is clues that have more than one answer.
[ Tony @74 I was not even born but I may just have been at Hyde Park , not quire sure of the date.
I was just in time for In The Wake Of Poseidon which also has the fully pink label for the first pressing. ]
[ Perhaps see if this disc site has any 1969 versions and any pictures of the actual LP ? ]
[Roz,
Not on that site, but there is a blog called The Vinyl Press with a post entitled ‘Island Records- The “Pink Label” Era’ with a photo of Traffic’s Mr Fantasy on a pink label:
https://thevinylpress.com/island-records-the-pink-label-era/
I do recognise the pink labels. I might have some in my collection, although getting access to particular records is not as easy as it should be since the unit holding them collapsed.
The Vinyl Press has posts about a number of pink-label releases, including one entitled ‘KING CRIMSON – In The Court of the Crimson King (An Observation by King Crimson’, which is at:
https://thevinylpress.com/king-crimson-in-the-court-of-the-crimson-king-an-observation-by-king-crimson/
There’s no photo there of any label, though, just the front cover art, the single head.
Bill Hart says there:
“Pressings: there’s lot’s of controversy and some degree of mystery here. The early UK pink labels have matrix information showing A2/ B 2 or 3 or 4; there are even earlier copies with at least an A1 side and some that apparently share an A1/B1 matrix. (My copy is an A3/B3).”
and also:
“My UK pink rim, with ‘U’ designations has quieter surfaces than the earlier pink label, but doesn’t really sound any better.”
I think you should check what characters are engraved on the runout track to verify exactly which release you have. It sounds quite possible it was the very first. Very collectible whatever and a wonderful heirloom, although, ironically, it’s “something you’ve got you don’t really need”.]
Something I very much need, the only music we ever play is vinyl analogue recordings , never anything digital. Also a good link to the past, like all my Mary Quant dresses from my mother. The students call it “vintage” , I call it hand-me-downs.
[ ILPS 9111A and an upside down triangle, ILPS 9111B ]
[Roz
ILPS 9111 identifies the album. The A and B identify sides 1 and 2 respectively. Bill Hart of The Vinyl Press (whose own earliest pressing has A3 and B3), refers to the earliest pressing he is aware of as having A1 and possibly some with B1. It may be that he is mistaken and that A2 & B2 followed A & B (with no digit) or perhaps yours is an even earlier pressing he doesn’t know of. The Vinyl Press doesn’t take comments but Hart writes:
“If you have a comment, a criticism or a contribution that you would like me to publish, send it to me as a Letter to the Editor, and I may publish it.”
The link is to an online contact form. No postal address, I’m afraid.
If you are absolutely sure that we is no digit after the A (and B), you may want to tell him about it so that he can have absolutely the fullest info on his blog.
PS Who here would have guessed that you teach dressed as a ‘dolly bird’?!]