Guardian 28,741 / Philistine

88 comments on “Guardian 28,741 / Philistine”

1. A really classy puzzle from Philistine. I was surprised by there being no question mark in UNSHAVEN with the word split s-haven = s-port. Loved the MANICURE SET anagram and DEPTH; couldn’t think of altruist to parse UIST. Many thanks to Philistine and Eileen.

2. I would agree with you Eileen. This took me a while to get started but was really enjoyable when I did. Some nice hidden anagrams. Thanks P and E.

3. It took me far too long to get ‘nearly seven’ in EIGHTEEN FIFTY-FIVE. It also took ages to get ‘sport’ in UNSHAVEN which was annoying as I already had worked out the ‘g-rant’ in GRAVE. Maybe it’s the Covid brain fog. Those 3 ended up in favourites along with FLAGRANT for the ‘jingoistic tirade’ and TEENAGERS for ‘underscore’.

4. This looked impenetrable at first read through but I worked steadily from the bottom upwards. Lots of ticks including SWAMPED, PRESS GANG, EVANESCENCE (lovely word and a good band Roz), MANICURE SET, FLAGRANT and 1855 but I could easily add others. Never heard of the spice so that was just a matter of hit and miss with the crossers until it checked out. HAVE IT OFF made me smile as it seems so passé, reminiscent of 70’s sitcoms. I am so impressed with your unraveling of GRAVE and UNSHAVEN, Eileen, although I’m still confused about the former. I thought it was something to do with a burial grant for a grave but probably way off. Super puzzle and super blog, especially the Brutus quotation.

   Ta Philistine & Eileen

5. Oh I get GRAVE now, clever trick indeed.

6. Post Office history is one of many lacunae in my crossword general knowledge, but I could see it had to be 1845 or 1855. Like drofle, I couldn’t think of altruist. I even wondered if the philanthropist should have been a philologist to give us linguist. I couldn’t make my mind up about the two rants, two raves and two havens. Are we missing something?

7. Does it matter that I had nine in 24d? I thought that was as close to seven as you could get and the year that PO Boxes appeared in London is not a fact I carry around with me!!

8. Thanks, Eileen. I absolutely loved every moment of solving this – Philistine on top form, and yes, up to all his tricks indeed, which some won’t like but you can’t please everyone (took me a while to spot what was going on with “grave” and “sport” until I remembered who the setter was).

   My only very minor gripe is that there’s no way of knowing from the clue whether 8,23,24 ends FIVE or NINE, and I wrongly guessed the latter as it’s nearer to seven. Grrr! Still, it was a lovely fun clue so I can’t hold that against Philistine.

   Favourites were EVANESCENCE – smashing word, delightful clue – CONKERS, AXIOMS and FLAGRANT (though I’m sure I’ve seen the last before).

9. Never did manage to parse 1855. Too clever by half. However am now aware of the Phil trick of dropping initials to lead from one word to another. Question is, will I remember it when the next Phil comes along? Thanks to both P and E.

10. Some lovely stuff from Philistine, with Eileen clarifying the couple I didn’t understand. I really liked SCATTERGUN and EIGHTEEN FIFTY-FIVE (thanks for the informative blog, Eileen – and what a relief that the pillar boxes weren’t the Dear Leader being witty), and appreciated UNSHAVEN once I’d had it explained to me.
    A matter of taste, but I really don’t like UIST at 6d. We all, even the most un-Ximenean of us, jump up and down indignantly about indirect anagrams. Why is “think of a synonym, any synonym, for philanthropist; and then halve it” any better than “think of a synonym, any synonym, for a collection of matching clothes and then jumble its letters up”?
    Thanks to Philistine and to Eileen especially for finding the anagram of suit.

11. Thank you for the parsing, Eileen. I was not on top form. Filled in the grid but flummoxed by g-rant and s-port though I’m fairly sure I’ve coped with this construction before. Also didn’t see the altr of UIST. Then to cap it all didn’t realise that TRUFFLE was an anagram and was trying to do something with t-ruffle. Best I stick to watching snooker today.

    That said, good enjoyable work out.
    Thanks Philistine and Eileen.

12. Petert @6 – had to be FIFTY for me, as FORTY not “near” enough
    JerryG @7 – snap. I thought it was a great clue once the PDM came, and you don’t really need the GK except for the last bit.

    NeilH @10 – exactly how many synonyms for philanthropist do you know? Altruist was the first and most obvious that came to mind for me. Not sure how many others I could come up with.

13. Some impressively clever clueing!

    How does ERG = some work?

14. I am sure I am being over-fanciful again but the repetitions of haven, rant and rave together with jingoistic (flag-rant) notions of being swamped put me in mind of the shameful measures being proposed here in the UK for dealing with desperate refugees. (Reminiscent also of sentiments expressed in the French presidential elections.) I’d like to think Philistine was toying with all that and registering a horrified response. But then I like to think all sorts of things. This was a very satisfying crossword, otherwise, with lots of different devices, some cracking anagrams and the life and separate trick being used so cleverly. Thanks all round.

15. The erg is a unit of work in the cgs system Steve69 @13.

16. Btw is CONKERS just a UK thing, or is it played on Aus & US too?

17. That was enjoyable – thank you to Eileen and Philistine. I saw 1855 when I had the crossers for the fifty five, and then worked out the rest from before 7. I should remember that separate trick – I came here to parse GRAVE. Just to be perverse HAMMERHEAD was my FOI.

    I have ASAFOETIDA in my spice rack; it adds an amazing tang to a mushroom curry I occasionally make or a spice mix cooked in oil poured over dhals which are otherwise a bit bland – a mix with many names and spellings, Madhur Jaffrey gives tarka, baghar or chhownk, Google tadka / chhonk / chaunk / baghaar. At its simplest, some cumin seeds and asafoetida cooked in oil and poured over cooked red lentil dhal before serving makes a big difference.

18. Thanks Tim C @13. Must confess I wasn’t familiar with the cgs system either!

19. Some lovely clues: SWAMPED, FLAGRANT (delicious), EVANESCENCE, PRESS GANG, HAVE IT OFF, HAMMERHEAD. Not so keen on the g-rant/s-port trick, though I guess I ought to try to remember it, and I thought the surface for LAPELS was very clunky – no PDM there, more a gradual clearing of fog with no great pleasure. Steve69 @13 – an erg is a unit of work, metric but not SI, so rather old fashoined now. It came up recently. Thanks, Philistine and Eileen.

20. Crossbar @16. Conkers is known here in Oz, probably through Pommy comics (at least to my generation). We tried it once when I were a lad and couldn’t see the thrill. Also, there are many places in Oz that lack horse chestnut trees.

21. TT @20 I did wonder about the horse chestnuts.

22. @19 my thoughts entirely.

23. Also, TT@19 erg is the unit of work I’m familiar with from my very ancient Physics A-level, circa 1966 😀

24. An excellent crossword that yielded to patient chiselling, except for 8,23,24 which I failed to parse. Seems a little unfair to me. I prefer a clue to be solvable from definition or wordplay, especially with such an obscure piece of general knowledge. Once you get eighteen-x-y there are six plausible answers, and still two with the crossers in place.
    The parsing of depth, grave, and unshaven also beat me so thanks to Eileen and of course Philistine for the challenge.

25. Hmm. Nearly got off on the wrong track with 2D, seeing “anagram of Xmas” plus a couple of letters. Aha: maxims = rules! Then realised that axioms was a perfect fit for the wordplay. But I hesitated for ages to ink it in. I blame my long-gone maths degree, which made it hard to equate them with the definition. Nothing to get pedantic about, though…

26. Good one from Philistine, with some sneaky lift-and-separates and a nice subtractive anagram clue for 18ac (though the surface is not the best!).

    Clear favourites for me were ASAFOETIDA and 1855 (although the NINE/FIVE ambiguity is unfortunate).

    My FOI was SCATHE, although I have never encountered this as a verb, only in adjectival forms (scathing, unscathed). I thought it might be a back formation, just as ‘grovel’ is a back formation from the adverb ‘grovelling’, but the dictionaries confirm its precedence.

    Thanks to the Levanter and Eileen.

27. I didn’t like the pillar box clue. I put 1859, as more nearly 7 than 1855. I don’t feel it’s reasonable to expect solvers to know the precise year when pillar boxes were introduced.

28. [I just got round to reading the pillar-box link. Thanks Eileen. It reminded me of my childhood I-spy books. You got extra points for a VR pillar-box in I-spy “On the Street”]

29. I found this quite hard for a Tuesday although many answers could be worked out from the very clear clues e.g. hammerhead, have it off, confers, yankees, abrasions and more. But the last one flummoxed me, I was totally misled by DJ!
    And I certainly had never heard of the so-called trick of separating the first letter of words…how would you know when to do that while trying to solve? I suppose it is yet another unwritten rule of cryptic crosswords, like having the definition at the start or end of the clue.
    Thank you Eileen for parsing and Philistine for a brain work-out!

30. Let down by my lousy spelling and also failed on a number of parsings. Certainly not my finest moment.

31. Some very clever stuff and I needed Eileen to help with those first letter separations. Very neat. I was hampered with UIST by knowing the islands slightly too well insofar as I always think of the main constituents rather than of Uist as a name for the collective but, as widders points out @12, there aren’t too many obvious synonyms for philanthropist – or too many noteworthy islands that can be labelled Hebridean, for that matter – so the solution was clear. In tune with others, I had big ticks for EVANESCENCE, FLAGRANT and ASAFOETIDA as well as PRESS GANG which tickled me. The ‘one’ in TRUFFLE caused me some problem although the anagram was clear: [solution could make one fodder] when the fodder is an adjective feels slightly weird but I’ll let the subconscious dwell upon that for a while.

    Thanks Philistine and Eileen

32. I’m another who, not knowing when London postboxes appeared, bunged in 1859 for ‘Nearly seven’. No complaints about the rest, though I needed the blog to parse BRUT.

    Thanks to Philistine and Eileen.

33. Good crossword with lots of tricks; I filled in the bottom half but got stuck for a while on the rest.

    I failed miserably to parse a number, including the s-port and g-rave. I put in 18.45 confidently but was disabused by the crosser. As others have said, 18.59 was another likely answer – I doubt many people knew the GK but I just looked it up.

    I liked HAVE IT OFF and EMPATHIC for the surfaces, FLAGRANT for the charade, and LAPELS for the nicely misleading DJ.

    Thanks to Philistine for the entertainment and Eileen for explaining it all.

34. EIGHTEEN FIFTY-FIVE was certainly an unusual clue, and I can’t quite make my mind up whether it was slightly unfair (could you potentially have any year as an answer, with a reference to something that happened in it?) or brilliant. It also works as an extended definition / CAD because according to the Wikipedia article on pillar boxes: “The first six in London were installed on 11 April 1855”. That is, “Nearly seven” = six!

    Many thanks Philistine and Eileen.

35. Me too with the 1859 — I think it’s a poor clue since it gives us no means to determine that the solution is FIVE not ‘nine’. The solution DEPTH is rather wonky as a definiendum for the clue: “So Mr Diver, where do you start working?” — “Depth”. (???)
    And I also got carried away by the g-rant, s-port trick and got stuck with t-ruffle. Hmmm.

36. Although in my youth I was the proud possessor of a penny black and a twopenny blue, I didnt think of such things all these years on and wrote in 18 59 which was nearer to 7pm
    Cant win em all
    A tougher Phil today and all the better for it
    I know Hindus use asafoetida as they reckon Krishna is not fond of garlic and onion
    He doesnt come round here much but its handy to have the stuff in case you are out of garlic and wish to do some Indian dish.
    Arse Sparta and Delft states?
    Thanks Eileen and Phil

37. Like Widdersbel @8 I had fifty-nine, being closest to seven [subliminally primed by a cat called Twenty-three fifty-nine. It was Mrs ginf’s when a child and was black with one tiny bit of white]

38. Widdersbel@12. As I had no idea about the Hebrides I was stuck on trying to guess half of an 8 letter word for a particular philanthropist. Got me. I was pleased to be able to parse that after googling the Hebrides.
    Depends what you came up with first.

39. Agree with all the comments about 1855. A clue should lead to an unambiguous solution from the definition OR the wordplay, but this one didn’t do that. An example of a good clue in this respect is 22ac – the answer is unfamiliar but the wordplay leaves no room for doubt.

    I hadn’t come across the trick with g(rave) and s(haven) before, but will remember it for future puzzles!

    Thanks Eileen, and to Philistine for an enjoyable workout.

40. Lots of fun and games and penny dropping moments today, “Underscore” for one. Like grantinfreo@37 I decided that EIGHTEEN FIFTY-Nine was the closest I could get to “nearly seven”. Especially with the right crossers already in place for 24d. Too lazy to parse, thought I’d just come on here and see what Eileen had made of it all.
    COTD for me was MANICURE SET. Just the one grumble with the over contrived and clumsy (I thought) wording of the clue that produced SCATTERGUN. Couldn’t parse UNSHAVEN, so thanks as usual to Eileen and of course to the mighty Philistine…

41. …and copmus@36 and pserve_p2@35 and Robi@33….sorry, rather dashed my comments on here without reading the above in its entirety…

42. A fail for me on 6d UIST (I had an unparsed UNST) and 20d (unfilled) LAPELS. But nevertheless, I must say I had so much enjoyment on the way to a DNF. [We probably all need to be bested by the setter every now and again to avoid hubris.] I remain in awe of Philistine’s beautifully crafted clues that always make sense yet can be so deviously misleading too, and wish Philistine lived in Australia and was practising his similarly precise skill (heart surgery) here in case I ever need same. I ticked just about every clue I solved but had triple ticks for 16d EMPATHIC. Thanks so much to Philistine for a very tricksy puzzle and to Eileen for her usual meticulous blog. [Reasons why 8,23,24d EIGHTEEN FIFTY-FIVE worked were particularly welcome, although I must admit to googling “first pillar boxes in London”.]
    BTW Sorry I haven’t read all the preceding comments and acknowledged them properly – I get overwhelmed sometimes when I solve later than the eager beavers/eager posters, but I do agree with an earlier post that 14a EVANESCENCE is a wonderful word.

43. PM @31 – know what you mean about the slight weirdness in 5ac, but it might help if we think of the ‘one’ as being in the dative case (i.e. to one or for one), like the ‘me’ in ‘make me a cuppa’ or ‘cry me a river’. ‘TRUFFLE? Yeah, if I jumble it up a bit that could make me (the word) FRETFUL.’

    Quod erat definiendum (thanks pserve for that!)

    I thought 1855 was great, but then I never thought of 1859! LJ @34 – is it fair? I would lean towards a yes, if the crossers had eliminated legit alternatives, and I would welcome similar clues.

    The year to meet up in time for chocolate mints? (3, 8)

    Thanks P & E

44. Thx to Phillistine for an enjoyable Tuesday challenge. Great scope with wordplay and a number of well disguised anagrams.
    Thx also to Eileen for blog and help with parsing 26across.

45. Tough puzzle. I guessed some answers that I could not parse such as the ‘underscore’ part of 5d; 5ac which I was trying to parse as T+RUFFLE; 7d FLAG + RANT = tirade; 17d.

    Liked HAMMERHEAD, GRAVE.

    New: CONK = nose; DJ = dinner jacket (for 20d).
    8/23/24 – needed help from google for the UK GK about postal pillar boxes. Missed seeing the 18.55 time bit.

    Thanks, both.

46. Thank you Philistine and Eileen (needed your help with the UNSHAVEN / GRAVE duo and the 18:55 clock). Some clever clues (e.g. Shark H & FLAGRANT) and I liked the subtractive anagram in 18a.

    Petert@6 – I think the double appearance of ‘rant’ in FLAGRANT & ‘grant’ at 26a, ‘haven’ in UNSHAVEN & HAVE(n) at 25a and ‘rave’ in GRAVE & in the wordplay at 20d could all be friendly nudges for solvers like me who failed to see the trick?

47. A little fanciful maybe, but I also saw some commentary in HAMMER (and Sickle) BRUTe, PRESS GANG, and GRAVE FINALE.
    1855 saw the Crimean War and witnessed the Siege of Sevastopol and the Azov Campaign.

48. TerriBlislow @14 [I share your thoughts even though time spent in ‘Crossword-Land’ is a place of refuge for me, I like it when setters reflect on the outrageous actions of our politicians.]

49. Like JerryG @7, and several others, I had NINE at 24d. As has been said, there is nothing in the clue to make one certain that it should be FIVE – and 18:59 is as close as you can get to 7pm, making it a better answer. Apart from historical inaccuracy, of course.

    Favourite clue would have to be ‘underscore young people’ – now there’s accuracy for you!

    Thanks to Philistine, and many thanks to Eileen for parsing UIST, BRUT and UNSHAVEN, which were all entered in the grid on definition and crossers only.

50. ‘Underscore’ was the highlight for me. But a resounding DNF so I’ll just flag down a passing huff and leave in it.

51. eb @43: that works for me. Many thanks. I can see how that trick has potential for the future …

    hatter @49: you’re right to highlight the ‘underscore’ which I don’t think has been mentioned in dispatches. Quite lovely.

    [copmus @36: ‘Arse Sparta’ – is that Roman or Greek?]

52. PM @31: yes, I struggled with the one in the TRUFFLE clue but rationalised it with, “Delicacy could make one {form of} fretful”. Still a bit of a wrench but ok for an anagrind, I reasoned.

53. (But I should thank Eileen for the blog and Philistine for the gentle mauling.)

54. I did put EIGHTEEN FIFTY FIVE, but it was a 50-50 choice between 5 and 9, and not all that blindingly obvious that there was any not-very-general GK to be looked up to resolve the matter.
    A pity, because “nearly seven” was a great other half to the def, like “underscore” for the TEENAGERS.

    Philistine’s usual lift and separate malarkey, which I did get this time. Failed to parse BRUTUS or spot the right first half for UIST (I know, I know, it was obvious – just not to me). Have never seen SCATHE as a verb.

    Anyway, good fun as always from Philistine – favourites CONKERS and the FLAG RANT.

55. Fine puzzle, got most of it last night except for 1855 and three others. (I was thinking that F – – – Y could be fancy or fairy or ferry or funny, never thought of either forty or fifty until this morning when I realized the three words could make a date.

    Wiki tells me that SCATTERGUN is an American term, but you wouldn’t know it by me.

    Loved the underscore(d) TEENAGERS.

    essexboy@43 What’s with the mints? Copmus@46 What’s with Arse, Sparta and Delft? I’m having a dense morning.

    Thanks as ever to Philistine and companionable Eileen.

56. Another wonderful puzzle from Philistine although I’m another who plumped for 1859 as that was closer to 7.

    FLAGRANT was my favourite.

    Thanks Philistine and Eileen (esp for the parsing of GRAVE)

57. Finished, but my list of unparsed is ridiculous 12a,14a,26a,4d,5d,6d,7d,8d,13d,17d, probably more unparsed than parsed.
    As a consequence too much use of the check button to be enjoyable.
    Hopefully the penny will drop with Philistine soon.
    Looking forward to checking the parsing…
    Thanks both.

58. I don’t understand the explanation to 26a, can someone help?

59. Hoof It @58. It’s ‘serious’=GRAVE. Then ‘grant’ could be g-rant in the same way that GRAVE could be G-RAVE, as in “rant and rave”. It takes a bit of getting used to, and I failed to carry the technique forward to S- HAVEN for ‘s-port’ in 17d.

60. Don’t see anything wrong with having to check the date of the first pillar box, especially since nowadays this is so easy. Knowing virtually nothing about pop music or American films I would never get anywhere without such assistance!

61. There was too much here beyond my grasp to be truly enjoyable — UIST, ASAFOETIDA, CONKERS, and SCATTERGUN all baffled me plus there were a fair number I guessed but could not fully parse. I did like HAMMERHEAD, YANKEES, DEPTH, ABRASIONS, and FINALE. Thanks Philistine and Eileen for the most helpful blog.

62. A classy puzzle indeed. I didn’t see either of the two instances of the word separation trick, but I really should have. I guessed 1855 rather than 1859 as the year for the pillar boxes, so I got lucky there.

    I liked this puzzle for the sheer variety of clues that both tested me and entertained me throughout.

    Thanks to Philistine and Eileen.

63. AlanS @60. No doubt you are right that checking the date of the first pillar boxes is “so easy”, but some of us on this forum prefer to solve the clues without such aids. Apart from anything else, if it’s going to be a general knowledge quiz, and we can use our “so easy” access to Google to solve it, there’s no real need for the cryptic element of the clues. And therefore no need to use our brains at all.

64. Sheffield Hatter @59 Thanks, nothing to indicate, ‘take the first letter off’ then? I Just assumed it was a DD.
    Is this just a Philistine peculiarly?
    Seems a very odd construction.

65. Loved the puzzle, except missed the Brutus angle of BRUT.

    What AlanS@60 said about lookups. To me, solving the definition part of 8,23,24 is figuring out that you have to get the date for the first pillar box in London, not necessarily in knowing what that date is.

66. Thanks for all the comments.

    I feel I’ve rather been playing truant today: I had a friend round for coffee this morning and then we went out for lunch, so I’ve been playing catch-up. Thank you to all those who answered various queries.

    Re the tricky 8,23,24: I can’t pretend that my general knowledge extends to such Post Office esoterica: I knew, from O Level History, that the Penny Post began in 1840, so I unashamedly googled ‘London pillar boxes’ and found the page that i gave the link to. It never occurred to me that ‘nine’ would also fit: that’s a pity – but I still like the clue. I do take sheffield hatter’s point @63, though.

    PostMark @51 and Valentine @ 55 – copmus will be in bed by now, I think, but he seems to have strayed into today’s Radian territory @ 36. 😉

    HoofItYouDonkey and sheffield hatter – I’ve managed to dig out the sport / shaven clue I (half) remembered. http://www.fifteensquared.net/2013/10/15/guardian-26079-philistine/ I can’t believe it’s from eight and a half years ago! It isn’t identical but it’s basically the same device.

    wynsum @46 – that’s what I was getting at in my remarks on the blog at 17dn and 20dn, when the penny finally dropped.

    I think that’s all – I’m glad that most people seem to have enjoyed it. Many thanks again to Philistine.

67. Dr WhatsOn @65 – I agree: we crossed.

68. Dr W – for me ”nearly seven” was enough to work out that it was eighteen-fifty-something, and that’s good enough for me. I reckon anyone who worked out what the clue was getting at but put NINE in the last part can claim a moral victory.

69. [Sorry Valentine @55, my clue @43 would have been very unfair on overseas solvers. It referenced a song by British 90s band Pulp (see here – the key line is about a minute into the song) and a brand of chocolate-covered mints called After Eights. They’re well-known in the UK, and the packaging and advertising features a clock which has just turned 8.

    I reckoned that if the rendezvous was planned for 2000, that would be just in time to indulge, as per the advertising.]

70. Widdersbel@68 absolutely! There are plenty of venues for testing GK, so I prefer to look at cryptics through parsing-tinted glasses only – although I must confess I do get a small thrill whenever I happen to know some obscure fact or translation.

71. Not one for me I’m afraid. Started off excitedly with 11a, 1d and 2d then ground to a complete halt. The device of g-rant/s-port has no indicator so how do I hope to spot it?
    Ah well – at least most other posters here enjoyed it! I’ll just note to skip philistine along with paul and wait for another Monday….

72. If this crossword had to be solved under old-fashioned exam conditions, shut up with no access to any reference material, I’d have some sympathy with complaints about 1855/1859. But it hasn’t, and I don’t (I put 1859, and didn’t bother to check it, and that’s nobody’s fault but mine; it would have taken 15 seconds). Plenty of “general knowledge” is needed to complete this crossword (eg about Uist, the Hammerhead shark, Asafoetida, Mike Pence, Conkers) – and that’s without mentioning knowing the meaning of expressions like Have It Off. The compiler is entitled to assume that the solver’s skill, faced with something they don’t know, comes in using their intelligence to work out what they ought to be looking up, and then looking it up. The one clue where I do raise an eyebrow, which nobody has mentioned, is using “Brutus” as the definition of “last killer”; even in Shakespeare plays there are plenty of other killers!

73. Well, I apologise if I keep banging on about EIGHTEEN FIFTY FIVE/NINE, but I really don’t share the views of Sagittarius @72. Yes, some clues may require bits of general knowledge, and what people know depends on how they absorb information, how old they are, where they live, etc, etc. But the whole point about a cryptic clue is that the solver should be able to get the answer from the wordplay and crossers (and sometimes other stuff like a theme, a nina or special instructions); then – if they want – they can check that they are right by looking it up in a dictionary or on Google.

    For example, UIST is solvable from ‘philanthropist abandons half’= (altr)UIST. Those of us who are familiar with the Outer Hebrides will be able to write the answer in with confidence, while others might miss the synonym and write UNST instead. But it is gettable if you know nothing of Scottish islands.

    I agree that BRUT(us) is very tricky, but still gettable. With the crossers, the only word I could get to match the definition ‘dry’ was BRUT, but I didn’t feel sufficient motivated to parse it completely as it was my last one in. Yes, there are plenty of killers in Shakespeare, and the clue could have been more friendly. But you don’t need a thorough knowledge of Julius Caesar to solve the clue.

    Reading the clue for 8, 23, 24 and looking at the crossers I had at the time, I thought about the introduction of postage stamps and pillar boxes, which I thought was mid-19th century. This gave me a guess between FORTY and FIFTY, but as 25a ended with a three letter word, F seemed more likely than R. At first I was stumped by the first definition: ‘nearly seven’ – but then the penny dropped. Of course, it had to be 1859! Nearly 7pm!

    As I said @63, I prefer to solve these puzzles without aids. I don’t mind checking *after* I’ve written in the answer, but if I have to look something up *before* writing an answer in, my victory is not so sweet. This is why I feel a little bit cheated by the fact that Philistine’s clue, despite its cleverness, does not give a unique answer *unless* you look up the GK first.

74. Much as it goes against my instincts, I have to agree with sheffield hatter 😉 . It probably comes from years of solving on the train (before the advent of the internet, mobile devices etc) but I still like to solve ‘clean’, without use of aids, even a dictionary.

    No criticism at all of those who do it differently, but I think those of us who solve the old-fashioned way still have a useful part to play in keeping the setters ‘honest’, i.e. not sliding into a ‘well, it’s googlable’ justification for obscurities – which does mean calling foul every now and then.

    Actually my guess is that Philistine intended the clue to be solvable without aids, and simply didn’t see that the crossers allowed a viable, although incorrect, alternative.

75. [Smot @71: I’ve joined and quit the Paul fan club more times than I care to mention but I’m always up for a Philistine/Goliath crossword — I found this one on the difficult end of his spectrum but mostly I find them more penetrable and always rewarding.]

76. Thank you Eileen for pointing out the °Philistine nonsense” in UNSHAVEN as I failed to spot it despite seeing g+rave, doh! And though I completely failed to see that nine could also work as I was too busy patting myself on the back for waiting to confirm Fifty with crossers, thank you Sheffield hatter for a perfect encapsulation if why it is less satisfactory than BRUT (or at least, I agree). I had to look up the spice but that is somehow the most plausible combination of the fodder once all crossers are there if we follow the rule of forming a known word when possible, even if that word is FOETID and thus seems unlikely. Very good, thanks Philistine.

77. I’m with Sagittarius@72. One of the pleasures of the cryptic crossword is the discoveries learned in the solving. If a clue relies on knowing when the postbox was introduced in London (as this one clearly did), then I embrace the straightforward opportunity to learn the answer with a little research. I don’t see why setters should be constrained by the refusal of some to have their existing level of knowledge challenged, especially when the suggestion is that this is somehow dishonest.
    Where do you set the ceiling for the expected level of knowledge?
    You would have a better argument if the focus of criticism had been on 11a HAMMERHEAD, which is impossible to solve without knowing the type of shark, but which many have identified as a favourite clue. HUMBERLEAD? HUMPEDHEAD?

78. I missed the G RANT and S PORT tricks. Was hoping for more Trollope after the pillar boxes reference.
    Thanks both

79. 6dn was spectacularly obscure. I am not British, and do not have intimate knowledge of those islands, nor do I want to spend time reading about them in detail for one clue.

80. Also very late thanks to Shanne@17 for the cooking tips. Van Winkle yes see your argument but isn’t the point that nobody has complained about HAMMERHEAD because all/most of us have heard of them and we have never heard of another shark that also fitted the crossers? Thus the GK bar is sufficiently low to justify the use of that device. Yes it is a judgment call over what we can be expected to know or deduce but I reckon essexboy has it right @74. Enough from me anyway

81. Even later than Gazzh but agree about EB@74, some of us still solve on the train , do not have a mobile phone or a computer and would not use google anyway because they are evil.

82. Gazzh @80 – no. sheffield hatter@73 made clear in his discussion of UIST that the clue was acceptable beacuse it was gettable if you knew nothing of Hebridean islands. HAMMERHEAD doesn’t pass this test if you know nothing of sharks, or even what a shark is. Any attempt to draw a line will be wholly subjective and therefore not a line worthy of drawing. The setter is not cheating or being dishonest by any expectation of knowledge of a fact.
    Can we go back to the good old days when these debates were always settled in this blog by a particular contributor (apologies – can’t remember their name) who would kindly confirm whether a fact was general knowledge on the basis of whether they knew it.

83. VW @82. I’m not sure anyone is saying that the setter was “cheating or being dishonest” – I said @73 that I felt “a little bit cheated” but this doesn’t imply intent – but as essexboy suggested @74, it looks like the possibility of NINE instead of FIVE was overlooked (by both setter and editor). A pity, because otherwise it’s a really good clue.

84. I had 1859 – it fitted!

85. Very enjoyable, just a couple I couldn’t parse but UIST and GRAVE couldn’t be anything else, and TEENAGERS is a delight.

86. “Underscore young people” is not a good definition for teenagers, as children under 12 and under fit the definition but are not teenagers. Nice try, though.

87. Sorry for the superfluous “under.”

88. Sorry came to this late for help. Why is ‘last killer’ an indication that it Brutus. Comments suggest we know it has to be a Shakespearean killer…how so? I wondered if it was a ref in April to the lat month and ides of March etc but that was so stretching it. Baffled please enlighten.

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