Guardian Prize 28,757 / Imogen

60 comments on “Guardian Prize 28,757 / Imogen”

1. Thanks Eileen. I found this a good workout with enough opportunities to get started and increasing challenges along the way. Googling the answer to 18a with ‘cow’ revealed the theme which I had never heard of and which came rather too late to be of much help. I spent more time on the last two or three than on all the rest; the first word of 3d defied resolution for a long time because I had entered ‘nose’ at 16a (Brasenose College) and again had never heard of the correct answer. Never heard of Stig of the Dump either so thanks for that. Not sure about ‘feeble’ in 24a, unless one candle power is not exactly illuminating.

2. So close, yet so far, even though I finished. I realized early on that 7d must be ZEBEDEE, as in the Magic Roundabout, then forgot about the possible theme till near the end. I remembered in time for it to help with DOUGAL, where I misparsed the DOU as half of douche – a quite different aspect of toiletry, which puzzled me no end to be called make-up! Thanks for setting me straight, Eileen.

3. Biggle @ 1 just looked up 1 candle power: 14 lumens, so about a 1W bulb. That really is pretty feeble.
   I only got CUSP right at the end when I came across USP in another crossword.

4. Total fail with the theme and didn’t spot it until I came here despite knowing Brian was the snail in 21 across and Dougal the dog in 9 across. I wouldn’t mind, but I used to watch it (in my teens I think). It had a reputation for slipping in the odd political or other reference that adults would understand but which didn’t disrupt the story line for the children. It once got moved to an earlier timeslot but the outcry from adults who couldn’t get home from work to see it got it moved back again.
   I only got CUSP yesterday as I was unaware of USP=competitive advantage until the Tramp puzzle the other day.
   I do remember (listening to I think) Stig of the Dump at Primary School. As a result STIGMATA was my favourite.
   I also wonder whether JASPER is a hint to the theme given a well known sketch on The Magic Roundabout by Jasper Carrot (I better not post a link 😉 ).

5. If I remember, it was piecing together Ermintrude then thinking Can this be a thing? and googling it that exposed the theme, about which I knew zilch. Don’t know if it screened down under (our household’s thing was Dr Who at 6.30, just before dinner). All fairly clued and gettable anyway. Lo op-ed was neat, and needed a long stare, and kibitzer, a nice bit of Yiddish, I haven’t seen for decades. Opuntia, otoh, was an utter jorum, as in wtf disbelief, followed by Well I’ll be bleeped! Lysins in deadly sins was another nho. So, plenty to enjoy, along with a bit of Imogenic stretching. Thx to him and Eileen.

6. Thanks Tony @ 3. I was only wondering if the word ‘feeble’ needed to be there at all.

7. The theme brought happy memories to me as well, and helped with solving BROBDINGNAGIAN after first getting FLORENCE and then ERMINTRUDE and DOUGAL. I had to use Google to confirm OPUNTIA, but all in all a very enjoyable prize crossword.

8. I wonder if I was alone in putting IMPOSE at 6dn?

   SOED (for one) has: impose – levy a tax (upon persons or goods),
   and situation / pose / position seems quite reasonable.

9. Like Eileen STRAIGHT AS A DIE was my FOI. I then got GASTRONOMIC which helped me get ERMIINTRUDE which also started me thinking about the Magic Roundabout which really helped with BROBDINGNAGIAN which I was only able to parse with the help of BRIAN. Then went looking for FLORENCE and DOUGAL and finding them was a great help.

   Also liked KIBITZER (also never heard of) and STIGMATA

   Did not get LOOPED

   Thanks to Imogen and Eileen

10. Knowing nothing of the rather parochial theme, I assumed that LADY (1d) was a reference to the (unnamed) subject of the Bob Dylan song Lay Lady Lay. Another Dylan song tells me that Man Gave Names to All the Animals, but it was of no help with respect to the snail, the cow, and the dog.

11. Many thanks, Imogen. This proved both fine challenge and sheer delight. Was glad to have used a word wizard to speed up the snail clue. BROBDINGNAGIAN was long forgotten (if ever known). Impressed that the wizard knew it. [I tended not to pronounce long words when reading … Tolkien for one … and was never a big fan of filmic versions of classic novels.]

    It was memorable as the theme emerged from the mist. Could it be? I did feel for those who might have encountered the Magic Roundabout with different character names. Good to have the newish OP-ED interrupting the nostalgia-fest.

12. I wondered, when solving this, what international reach the series might have had and whether our Antipodean community, in particular, would be aware of it as they are often first to the plate on the blog. I don’t know why Dylan got the antennae quivering from the off but 1d was my FOI and, for some reason, it didn’t feel like a Bob reference. But then my path converged with Eileen’s as ERMINTRUDE made her presence felt and we were off. ZEBEDEE was the last of the characters to fall into place, what with me not being biblically trained, so failing to spot the disciples reference until later in the puzzle. Very happy memories of childhood brought back by this one so well done Imogen. And thanks to Eileen for her unabashed enthusiasm. Delightful.

13. Like you, Eileen, we enjoyed the trip back in time to the TV (and a book, 15d)
    Stuck for too long with DUTY BRIEF at 13d but eventually Vic saw the error of Tim’s too-hasty answer.
    Put in OPUNTIA but needed a visit here for your explanation, so thank you.
    Thanks to Imogen for the fun last Saturday

14. Thanks Eileen, I needed you to confirm LOOPED and CUSP: I just couldn’t see the parsing of either. I had forgotten OP-ED and didn’t know USP, but do now recall some discussion about USP this week.

    Thanks, also, Imogen, for a delightful Xword.

15. And, yes jackkt @8, we had IMPOSE for 6d too.

16. Thanks Imogen and Eileen
    Theme no problem for me – got in by way of ERMINTRUDE.
    Those who remember the programme may not know that the original was French. Eric Thompson (Emma’s father) ignored the French script and just made up English words to go with the pictures.

17. Hard work but enjoyable (par for the course for Imogen). I didn’t finally get CUSP until about Wednesday when I noticed I hadn’t finished, and Check All this morning confirmed that my doubtful PALPABLE for 10a was indeed wrong.
    ERMINTRUDE and ZEBEDEE highlighted the theme: I spotted Dylan but was muttering about the absence of Brian the Snail – I knew BROBDINGNAGIAN (though unsure of the spelling) but failed to parse it. Knew KIBITZER (lovely word) as an onlooker but not the “interferer” meaning, and LYSINS were new to me.

    [Tim C @4: I have fond memories of the Jasper Carrott sketch: one of my colleagues years ago used to own a tape containing this and “The Mole” among others, which used to get played at office parties to general hilarity. ]

18. I didn’t get the theme until DOUGAL, my LOI, which then explained why it was “the snail” and “the cow”. My more alternative fellow-students saw lots of “counter-cultural” references in The Magic Roundabout.

19. Haven’t come across Imogen too often, but after this delightful puzzle I’m now a fan. Managed to complete apart from ERASABLE and HEIR. The triumph here was the contrast between the erudition of the puzzle, and the simplicity of the theme, which when the penny finally dropped produced an audible and prolonged laugh which I simply had to share with those around me. Loved all of this, and looking forward to Imogen’s work in the future. Huge thanks.

20. Oh, and a great blog Eileen.

21. [Muffin@16: I don’t know what the other characters’ names were in French, but Dougal was originally “Pollux” – the French allegedly were somewhat miffed to find the dog was now Dougal, believing it to be some kind of subtle insult to De Gaulle.]

    Some of the themed clues would be tricky for those who didn’t know who the cow, the dog, the snail and the jack-in-the-box were.

22. Enjoyable puzzle but I failed to solve 16ac and 24ac.

    I picked up on the Magic Roundabout theme after Brian and Zebedee thanks to Google but I have never seen this film or TV show. It was then easy (with help from the wikipedia entry) to fill in Ermintrude, Florence & Dougal but of course that is not the ideal way to solve a puzzle. However, I would not have known about these characters/solutions otherwise.

    Liked LOOPED.

    New: BRIAN the snail for 21ac; KIBITZER; ZEBEDEE (both the jack in box and supposed father of disciples James and John); OPUNTIA; ION BEAMS; DOCK BRIEF; LYSINS = antbodies for 13ac.

    Thanks, both.

23. I enjoyed this more than I thought I would when I saw what the ghost theme was about. I knew all the names except Brian but did not realise they were all from the same source.. However, it turned out to be good fun finding these things out.

    The SW corner was a bit of a challenge. I needed BROBDINGNAGIAN in order to make progress there and was pleased to be able to work it all out except for the letters BR…IAN, and in that way I learned the name of the snail.

    I very much liked the clues to LOOPED, CUSP (my LOI), KIBITZER and INATTENTION. I also liked the generous helping of long answers in the grid – something of an Imogen trademark, I believe.

    I don’t remember seeing the phrase DOCK BRIEF before. I often find ‘simple’ clues like that difficult (DOCK BRIEF = DOCK + BRIEF) if I don’t know the answer-word (or phrase).

    Many thanks to both Imogen and Eileen.

24. I realise now that I goofed up on the parsing of ‘STIG (of the dump’) in 15d. For some reason I assumed it referred to Stig of the TV car show Top Gear. Whoops.

25. [gladys @21
    Apparently Pollux spoke bad French with an English accent.
    The only other name I remember was Mr. Rusty was Bonhomme Jouvence.]

26. Thanks Imogen and Eileen. Very much enjoyed this. After twigging the theme and seeing LOOPED, I thought there might some ‘magic’ hidden in the perimeter.

27. Got it all, including the theme – a first for me! As for Eileen and others, this was a delightful trip down memory lane – compulsory viewing in the JCR. Zebedee was the giveaway, Dougal (true to form?) the most problematic. Thanks all round.

28. Thank you Eileen for the DOUgal parsing. Absolutely loved this puzzle. Needed help spelling BROB……. but I knew what it was. Had to google to get the cactus, but it came up immediately, so must be one of the more common ones. Also had to google to check Lysins are antibodies.

    But got the theme early on, which helped. I would hardly call it parochial DougV@10. It is well known and loved in the UK, and the Guardian is a UK newspaper. And the UK is rather larger than a parish (67 million people).

29. First one in for me was ZEBEDEE – when I first saw him referred to as the father of James and John it became engraved in my memory because of the easy association with Magic Roundabout.

    Imogen’s clues are sometimes just too difficult for me, and I would never have got LOOPED or TAPPABLE if I’d carried on until the middle of next week. I only got OPUNTIA after seeing Eileen’s solution for 1a – I originally had CAUSTIC for 2d, which is clearly no joke, and a neat anagram of I for ‘(small) island’ and ‘cactus’, but DEAD LYSINS caused a rethink there. I knew about KIBITZER from reading the Guardian’s former bridge correspondent, Rixi Markus, who used to refer to kibitzing at tournaments.

    I don’t normally pick favourites, but the ‘feeble’ CANDLE was really good – the fact that the unit known as candlepower (candela in SI) is very small is not, perhaps, generally appreciated – and yes, Biggles A @6, it is needed!

    Thanks to Imogen and Eileen.

30. 18ac ERMINTRUDE was my way into this, and this immediately gave away the “Magic Roundabout” theme. Having solved the cow, meant the snail was obviously BRIAN, the dog DOUGAL, similarly FLORENCE and ZEBEDEE. I wondered how anyone not familiar with the programme would fare, and it’s interesting reading the comments above. But at least it didn’t pervade all the clues.

    (I was a huge fan of MR back in my student days in the late 60s. It was must viewing in the JCR of my hall. I don’t remember if it was still a thing when my daughter was young.)

    I couldn’t figure out 16ac. None of the words that fitted my crossers seemed to make any sense, so thank you for explaining that Eileen. I see now that I also put DUTY BRIEF in 13dn (without much conviction) instead of DOCK BRIEF (never heard of) which would explain some of my problem.
    I found 1ac LOOPED difficult too, but Mr. C got the word from the definition and I then managed the parsing. Seems obvious now.
    2dn OPUNTIA was new to me but getable from the clue.
    Oh, and I didn’t parse the DOU of DOUGAL.
    Otherwise no problems, but somehow not too much joy either. Sorry.

    Thanks Imogen for the trip down memory lane and Eileen for a great blog.

31. Aye-aye, Antonionioni…

    Thanks Eileen. Completely with you on the theme – one of my all-time favourites. And yes, what a pleasant surprise it was to see Imogen on a Saturday.

    My first themed answer was BROBDINGNAGIAN – and I did raise half an eyebrow at the reference to that particular snail, which I thought was a bit left-field. But then I spotted FLORENCE and the penny dropped… just utterly delightful.

    Also BROBDINGNAGIAN is one of my favourite words – not that I’ve ever read Gulliver’s Travels, probably should get round to reading it one day (I think I first came across the word in a Will Self book, come to think of it).

    Also agree with gif @5 that KIBITZER and OPUNTIA are lovely words too. CUSP is very clever – funny to see the same device again just a few days later. LOOPED was my LOI and ultimately one of my favourites.

    Only one I didn’t much like was CANDLE, which I felt was more Vulcan than Imogen. Maybe it’s more clever than I’m giving it credit for.

32. As usual, I quaked a bit when I saw Imogen’s name but this turned out to be pretty tractable once I saw the theme.

    One can’t fault setters for using dictionary definitions, but these days a lysin is the name for a group of enzymes. I don’t think any biological scientist would call an antibody a lysin.

    I liked the simple CUSP and the general weaving of the theme into the solutions and clues. My LOI was LOOPED, where I stared at ‘oped’ for a very long time trying to fathom out how it related to articles, doh!

    Thanks Imogen for the fun and Eileen for an excellent blog.

33. Widdersbel@31

    Do give Gulliver’s Travels a try. It’s a blisteringly savage satire of the kind which is much needed but conspicuously lacking in the current political climate.

34. I got the theme early on, but kept forgetting about it, so it was not much help. Even so, remembering the m Magic Roundabout was a delight. I only ever ssawit if I finished milkung early, but I still loved it. So thanks for the link Eileen, you took me home again.

35. [gladys @17 I’m glad someone else had heard of the Jasper Carrot sketch. I didn’t want to provide a link but it’s easily found.]
    [gladys @21 and muffin @25 the French character names are in the Wiki article that Eileen supplied in her blog. It’s worth a read and stirred some memories for me.]

36. [TimC @35
    Thanks – I hadn’t realised that the red text was a link. I see that I have misremembered who Bonhomme Jouvence was!]

37. Thanks Imogen and Eileen. Did not finish this. Got the theme but didn’t know DOCK BRIEF, USP or OP-ED. Shouldn’t it be “ended back where it started” instead of “ending…”?

38. Graham @ 37

    How about “If something is ending back where it started, it’s looped”?

39. sheffield hatter @ 29. The annotated solution doesn’t indicate it’s needed – candle double def [game not worth the candle/candle power]

    Interestingly also for 16a it has – cusp CUP. It looks as if something has been altered.

40. Don’t know how the strikethrough happened.

41. Sorry, it should have been – cusp CUP.

42. This time

    cusp – CUP

43. I found this hard and satisfying. LOI was 1@, confused by the hyphen. Opuntia, lysins and ion beams were new but gettable, I had to guess tappable because I have a rudimentary knowledge of IT terms. Theme was recognised but only helpful as a check. I must have been at work or coming home when it was on.
    Thanks to Imogen and Eileen

44. OK – cusp – CU bracket S bracket aliva bracket bracket P!
    Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me can explain what has happened.

45. Sadly the theme was revealed early on in the Quick Crossword comments by one of the regulars who should have known better. For once fortunately I didn’t look at the comments until after I had completed Imogen’s Prize so my enjoyment wasn’t spoiled. I imagine a few people must have been victims of this inconsiderate spoiler

46. Biggles A @ the last half dozen posts: make your point. You are clearly just on the brink … It’s on the tip of your tongue … You’re right on the …

47. Lovely crossword – and not just because I, rarely for me, got the theme. My FOI, ZEBEDEE, was very suggestive.

    I hope it was a labour of love for Imogen setting the puzzle as it appeared to be for Eileen solving and sharing with us.

    Thanks both 🙂

48. I failed to get CUSP, having also put in DUTY BRIEF for 13dn:

    Lawyer (DUTY BRIEF) is task (DUTY) + cut short (BRIEF).

    ‘Brief’ is slang for a lawyer, principally a barrister but also applied to a solicitor sometimes, and a duty solicitor is one who is on call at a police station or court to represent, if desired, those who do not have other representation. Never thought of USP, although I am familiar with the term. I started off assuming “competitive advantage” was the definition for EDGE, but couldn’t parse that (obviously) and it was blown out anyway once I got the crossing S. I did know the term DOCK BRIEF, but once I got the D, I settled on DUTY BRIEF without further thought, despite some misgivings.

    Moth@28, the primary meaning of ‘parochial’ these days is the metaphorical “narrow in outlook or scope; provincial”, Collins. (Also, ‘provincial’ doesn’t necessarily mean ‘of a province’, in case you were wondering.) While the Guardian is published in the UK (was it originally circulated only in the North as the Manchester Guardian?), it is aimed at English-speakers all over the world, as the coverage of US news, which sometimes seems more abundant than UK news, must testify. Any regular here knows that there are many American and Australian solvers of the Guardian’s puzzles, too. Although the Magic Roundabout was aired in the States, the names were changed. Nevertheless, solvers in the former colonies seem mostly to have managed well enough after quizzically googling ‘Brian snail’ or similar.

    I thought BROBDINGNAGIAN was great and it also taught me that I have been wrong all these years in pronouncing it as “Brobdignagian”.

    Once I realised there was a Magic Roundabout theme (and not a “ghost theme” as stated by Alan B@23, surely?) I had only ZEBEDEE to get but failed to see it. Later, when considering the last few, I realised it was the answer to 7dn. (I knew ZEBEDEE was a biblical name, although not the specifics.)

49. Biggles A, 39-44. The bracket which looks like a chevron is used to enclose html instructions. Specifically, the sequence [chevron s chevron example chevron /s chevron] will be rendered as example, the ‘s’ standing for ‘strikeout’.

50. … and if you don’t close off with [chevron /s chevron], the instruction will be applied from the [chevron s chevron] to the end of the text.

51. I am totally in awe of non-UK solvers who do manage to navigate UK general knowledge. And I know almost all of them do so uncomplainingly. I just winced at the word parochial (which seems a bit pejorative- narrow, provincial) for something which is well known in the UK

    Specialist UK references (I like specialist better) are acceptable in a UK crossword. Much as specialist UK news is acceptable in a UK newspaper. I don’t insist on purely UK references (or news), but there are bound to be some.

52. I got the Magic Roundabout theme early, as someone else who loved it, and the books. They are on the list of books I am not allowed to read aloud as I can’t stop giggling. ZEBEDEE was one of my early answers. which alerted me to the theme as I do have the Biblical background (and my grandparents had a dog called ZEBEDEE named after the father of James and John, not the spring-loaded character, even though the dog was around in the 1960s), and it made me sure of FLORENCE and parse BROBDINGNAGIAN, plus look for the others.

    My last two in were DOCK BRIEF and CUSP, as I’d completed the grid on Saturday other than CUSP. Again, like others above, alerted by the discussion around the Tramp puzzle midweek, because I too had DUTY BRIEF until I read the USP comment. (I even know what USP means, have used it for real in conversations, had no problem using it for the Tramp puzzle.) I didn’t know DOCK BRIEF until I then guessed and googled after solving CUSP.

53. Biggles A @39. I never look at the annotated solution. I prefer the explanations by the bloggers on this site.

    If the setter’s intention was really “game not worth the candle/candle power” then I agree that ‘feeble’ would have been unnecessary. But I’m certain that Imogen must have been aware that “game not worth the candle” is a very well-known expression, so that the clue is bound to be a bit of a giveaway. To try to mislead by using ‘power’ (or possibly ‘such power’, if we see ‘such’ having a role in both parts of the clue) to define CANDLE would have surely been a forlorn hope. So in my view the inclusion of ‘feeble’ was to make the clue flow better, to make it wittier, to give whatever pleasure we can take from such a delightful construction. That’s why I said it was my favourite, and for that it was necessary to include ‘feeble’.

54. Tony @ 49, 50. Thank you for your help, I thought it must be something like that but it is well beyond my rudimentary understanding of these things. Perhaps the point I was trying to make has been obscured, the annotated solution does not relate to the clue.

55. sheffield hatter @ 53. Thank you, I understand completely, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It just seemed to me that the clue might have read quite reasonably as ‘Game’s not worth such power’.

56. Tony @48
    You’re right about my wrong use of the term ‘ghost theme’. All I meant was a theme that was not explicit. Here, several thematic items (names) are in plain sight, and the theme is known (or can be found) from those.

57. Biggles A@54, I think the main lesson for you to take away is not to use the chevron brackets in your comments, or you may get unexpected output. ‘[‘ and ‘]’ are safe to use as you wish.

    I think feeble is implicit in ‘candle power’ in the annotated solution. Of course it’s all relative, but compared to even a low-powered electric lightbulb, a candle’s power is pretty feeble, surely? I can’t see how the clue makes sense in the surface without the word ‘feeble’.

58. SH@53

    “[…] in my view the inclusion of ‘feeble’ was to make the clue flow better, to make it wittier, to give whatever pleasure we can take from such a delightful construction”

    A top setter like Imogen does not stick extra words into a clue for such reasons.

59. Alan @56, of the characters from TMR, the only one named in a clue (as in a ghost theme, if I’ve understood the term correctly?), is Dylan. Ermintrude and Dougal are referred to as “the cow” and “the dog” respectively, as in an explicitly themed puzzle, while Brian is only referred to as “snail” as part of wordplay, so I’m not sure the puzzle can be characterized as any particular type of themed puzzle (‘mixed’, maybe?), although without a doubt themed, and successfully so.

    I’m not trying to have a go at you, but I know you like to get things just right.

60. Really loved the puzzle and the memories. We had MAPPABLE instead of TAPPABLE ? even though we thought it was wrong. Many thanks to Imogen and Eileen for an excellent cryptic and blog. Hadn’t heard the Jasper Carrott sketch before and it was well worth a listen ?

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