Guardian 28,778 / Nutmeg

82 comments on “Guardian 28,778 / Nutmeg”

1. A mixture for me today – some got quite quickly but struggled with others and there were a few I couldn’t parse.

   Favourites included: WATERCOLOUR, ANNOTATES, WORM, DANDIPRAT (which I had never heard of), FIRELIGHTER, TREMOR, OXIDATING

   Thanks Nutmeg and Eileen

2. Thanks Nutmeg and Eileen
   I knew DANDIPRAT from Malcolm Arnold’s piece “Beckus the dandiprat”, in which it has the personal meaning – I didn’t know the three halfpennies meaning.
   Despite a handful of Google hits, there is no such word as OXIDATING. When iron rusts it is oxidised, not oxidated, so the word is “oxidising”.

3. AIR – TIGHT, SHIP, PUMPS
   WATER – RAT (three of them!), GATE, MARK, SHIP (down), PUMPS, TIGHT, RAIN, ROSE
   FIRE – PLACE, SHIP, DOOR, OFF, BALL, DOG (and WATER!)
   EARTH – WORM, TREMOR
   Brilliant.

4. Very tough puzzle. Would have been suitable as a Saturday Prize.

   Did not understand 8d apart from EASY = simple.

   New: DANDIPRAT, TOG RATING.

   Thanks, both.

   muffin@2 – I assumed that oxidating is okay as my online dictionary has this:
   oxidate | ??ks?de?t |
   verb Chemistry, rare
   another term for oxidize.

5. I too was very surprised at OXIDATING. Some trouble parsing a couple, otherwise a nice puzzle. SHIP had a good definition.

6. essexboy @3 – Oh, my word! When I started the puzzle, I reminded myself that, these days, Nutmeg does seem to like a theme – and then I forgot to look! 🙂
   Just brilliant, as you say.

7. Very entertaining. Eileen, I enjoyed your distinction between “sounds (unarguably) like” at 9a and “sounds (something) like” at 7d (though I note that muffin @2 hasn’t actually complained about the latter) 🙂

   That’s an interesting spot @3 essexboy.

   Many thanks both.

8. My online dictionary has no problem with oxidate – given meaning = ‘oxidise’.

   It’s also offered as a noun ….

9. In my case, I spent too long trying TIRADE for 1d. LAD with L -> R (changing sides) in TIE (contest). Wasn’t too keen on equating ‘fellow’ with ‘lad’ though. Not knowing ‘tog rating’ was also the subject of a long rant by a certain Welsh comedian.

10. I should perhaps add that several versions of Rhod Gilbert’s ‘tog rating’ rant can be found on YouTube.

11. essexboy @3
    Thanks for pointing out the theme – that is brilliant!

12. Still a beginner
    “Oxidate” and “oxidation” are valid words, but “oxidating” isn’t. As I said, there are some online examples, but it isn’t in Chambers.
    (I speak as having taught chemistry for nearly 40 years!)

13. Think I am almost as impressed by essexboy’s sleuthing as I am by this spiffing crossword. Thanks to all.

14. Another puzzle where the top half was a bit recalcitrant for me and I had to work from the bottom up.

    Much to like, though I found some of the clues rather less precise than is usual for Nutmeg. I didn’t know the old coin (worth 0.375 of a groat 🙂 ) and it took a while to spot the homoiophone for ORTHODOX.

    Favourite was BRAINIER, for its brilliantly meteorological surface.

    OXIDATE is listed in dictionaries, so is fair game, but I agree that ‘oxidise’ (with z if you prefer) is the verb universally employed, despite ‘oxidation’ being the usual noun.

    I am in awe of esssexboy @3.

    Thanks to Nutmeg and Eileen.

15. Great puzzle, and how clever of essexboy to get the theme! Brilliant, as you say.

16. Yes, I was going to ask “chemists please help, are -ising and -ating different processes?”. A la, eg, hydrolising and hydrating? It seems not. A few other knowledge gaps were: forgetting about bee as in spelling bee, so didn’t parse berate; tog in tog rating, and dand[y] as comic (was Beau Brummel such a dandy as to be comical?), so the dand bit of dandiprat (nho) was a guess and check. Other than that, Mrs Lincoln found the play quite fun. Ta both.

17. Excellent puzzle. Hard going but worth it, even if I did fail (for the second time in a few weeks) on ORTHODOX. Loved DANDIPRAT – somewhere in the deep recesses for me too.

    Great work to spot the theme, essexboy @3.

    Thanks to Nutmeg and Eileen

18. All four ‘elements’ in multi-manifestation! Brilliantly spotted eb @3, Mrs Lincoln is agape!

19. What muffin@2 said.

20. Missed the four elements completely as I struggled slowly through this. Didn’t know TOG RATING, lips pursed with an “ooh!” as I tried out the ORTHODOX homophone aloud. Last one in TOREROS. Realising how cleverly inclusive Nutmeg had been thanks to Essexboy didn’t quite give me the pleasure latterly that today’s puzzle should have done, I thought…but I did like the EARPLUG.

21. …and doesn’t DANDIPRAT appear in Roald Dahl…?

22. The SOED gives OXIDATE (‘now rare’) as first appearing in the late 17th century and OXIDIZE/OXIDISE as early 18th century, so it appears that the former is the original, but now superseded, version. [Lavoisier coined the term ‘oxygene’ -‘acid former’, because he believed (erroneously) that it was an essential component of all acids – for the gas originally called ‘dephlogisticated air’. REPHLOGISTICATE, anyone? 🙂 ]

23. Can’t believe Essexboy spotted the theme. Much plauditing!

    Elegant stuff from this elegant setter.

24. An excellent puzzle and chapeau to Essexboy for getting the theme. Even if I’d be told there was one I doubt I’d have spotted it. Is there somewhere I can find out those compilers who habitually have a theme/Nina in their puzzles or can some kind soul provide a list? I’m sure it would enhance my enjoyment in solving rather than more often than not finding out after the event.

25. Gervase @22
    That’s interesting. How could OXIDATE pre-date the naming of oxygen?

26. muffin @25: Well spotted! I have absent-mindedly taken ‘L17’ to mean ‘late 17th century’ when it really indicates ‘late 1700s’. D’oh! 🙁

27. Ah!

28. Spotted the element them just after entering the fourth one. I’ll be stuck with a Wake of Poseidon earworm for the rest of the day. It could be worse.

29. You do know Eileen that when you say “Sounds (unarguably)” for REVUE, that someone, somewhere is going to take issue and say, “that’s not how I say it”. 🙂
    Like you I also took a long time trying to work out Belate and BERATE.
    This expat had heard of TOG RATING.

    I also had a question mark against OXIDATING. I’ll just quote the BRB here…. “oxidate vt to oxidize……..oxidize or -ise vt and vi to combine with oxygen….” and the reader can make up their own mind about oxidating. I convinced myself that it was OK.

    Favourite was SHIP and essexboy@3

30. Thanks Nutmeg and Eileen, an elemental firecracker today.
    Thanks to essexboy@3 for unveiling the thematic scope, to which you could maybe add EARTH BALL and FIRE PUMPS – it’s a shame that there is no such thing as an ‘earth pump’ to complete the set!
    All this sharp, OXIDATING talk is corrosive (or is that too much water?) – I’ll take the air now.

31. I had already marked this down as a top puzzle but thank you from one Essex Boy to another.
    And thanks Nutmeg and Eileen

32. There seemed to be an extra element of difficulty to this one. (well-spotted eb). One of several instances of my obtuseness today was wondering how we were supposed to remember that the DANDY cost three hapence.

33. I should add that I love the neat SHIP and, possibly my favourite, the thematic weather forecast in BRAINIER.

34. Hovis @9 and @10, did you mean one like this about TOG rating?

35. muffin @2
    I too know DANDIPRAT from the Malcolm Arnold piece. When I first heard it announced on Radio 3, by Patricia Hughes, her ineffably old-fashioned BBC accent misled me into thinking that it must be called ‘Bacchus the Dandiprat’.

36. I usually avoid Nutmeg’s offerings as I’ve floundered in the past, but was feeling brave today, and managed to get most of it out. I learnt that a rood is a cross. I can never remember the Royal Engineers. And I’d never heard of a tog rating — I thought it may have been a tug rating that specified how hard an eiderdown could be tugged before it disintegrated! And as for dandiprat — I must see if I can include it in my next dinner conversation.

    Well done essexboy@3 on discovering a theme. These themes are usually wasted on me — I only ever twig to them when I come here.

37. Wonderful puzzle, as others have said. I remember the DANDIPRAT expression as tuppence-halfpenny rather than three-halfpenny, but there you go. Many thanks to Nutmeg and Eileen.

38. Tim @34. Yes indeed. That was where I first saw it on TV. Still think it’s hilarious.

39. Besides the brilliant theme (which of course I missed completely: elementary, my dear Gladys…) l also enjoyed Nutmeg’s usual skill with surfaces. Couldn’t work out the RIT(enuto) in BRITPOP so that was unparsed, and never did wriggle out of the BELATE/BERATE trap.

    I only knew the person for
    DANDIPRAT – like PeterT I thought the Dandy must have cost three halfpence, and couldn’t find a definition.

    Likes: SHIP, WORM, WATERCOLOUR, PUMPS, PRETTY WELL.

40. Many thanks Eileen – especially for 13 which I couldn’t parse. Annoying really because I live less than a mile from the Church of the Holy Rude. Like many DANDIPRAT was in there somewhere and OXIDATING held me up because it fitted the clue, but was unfamiliar with the word. Excellent puzzle.

41. muffin, if “oxidate” is a real word, why isn’t “oxidating”?

    It’s news to me that a DANDy is a comic, but “funniprat” didn’t look like a word and DANDIPRAT did, sounding sort of like something I’d heard once.

    I’m with our friends down under — I’ve never heard of a TOG RATING. But then we don’t have duvets either.

    Thanks to Nutmeg and Eileen, and wild cheers to essexboy!

42. Huge thanks to Nutmeg for yet another wonderful puzzle which I absolutely loved. Lovely mix of tough and tender but always with wit and style. Too many favourites but a special mention for BRAINIER and TOG RATING. Completely missed the theme which only served to re-inforce Nutmeg as a leading setter. Thanks to Eileen for blog and for parsing a couple I couldn’t.

43. I did not enjoy thus as much as I usually do with Nutmeg’s puzzles – BALL seemed a little weak – but kudos for the theme, and also to all who spotted it.

    I think I may have a solution to the OXIDATING conundrum. Synonyms are funny, you can have A being a synonym of B, B being a synonym of C, but A not being a synonym of C. It all depends on whether the substitution rule works for A and C in usage. According to muffin, our resident chemist, the answer is no.

44. Generally I enjoy Nutmeg but I found this crossword more of a slog than a pleasure. It didn’t help that I was unfamiliar with terms such as TOG RATING, DANDIPRAT, FIRELIGHTER, and DOG ROSE. I did spot AIR, WATER, FIRE, and EARTH but I didn’t bother to press further. Thanks to both.

45. Pretty tough going to start with but thankfully most yielded steadily. Ground to a halt in NE corner and LOI was ORTHODOX.

    I spent ages looking for the theme, assuming there must be one, and it completely eluded me so well spotted essesboy @3.

    Thanks Nutmeg and Eileen

46. I’m another former chemistry teacher who has never seen oxidating.

47. [greyfox @24

    Thanks to you and others for the chapeaux 🙂 Mustn’t let them go to my head.

    This is my list – it may not be complete, and others here may have differing experiences.:
    Qaos – always has a theme
    Brummie – often has a theme, as last Friday
    Crucible – often has a theme
    Nutmeg – sometimes has a theme (as today), sometimes a nina (there was one last year which only the most erudite could have spotted – LOYAULTE ME LIE, which was the motto of Richard III)
    Puck – sometimes has a theme/nina, but alas we haven’t seen him for ages
    Matilda – we don’t often see her in the cryptic slot, but when we do there is sometimes a cleverly concealed theme
    Tramp – sometimes has a theme/nina (as yesterday), theme often shared between clues and solutions
    Vlad – if there’s a theme, it tends to be in the clues more than the solutions
    Paul – if there’s a theme, it’s explicit in the clues – there’s generally a ‘gateway’ clue you have to solve in order to get the other thematic ones – or sometimes you can guess the others, and work backwards to the gateway
    Brendan – there’s always something clever and interesting going on, but sometimes difficult to categorise!

    I remember Dr Whatson and Roz came up with names for the different kinds of theme, but I can’t recall the details.]

    [Eileen/Tim C @29 – I can’t believe no one has pointed out that the UE in REVUE should be pronounced as two distinct vowels, as in suet and cruet.]

48. essexboy @47. 🙂

    And many thanks for your helpful review!

49. essexboy: I would add Boatman, who often has a surface theme – that is, it’s apparent in the clues. That is in contrast to the sort of ghost theme usually used by Qaos for example (and by Nutmeg today), where it’s possible to solve the whole puzzle without noticing the theme, and the challenge is to try to spot it in the answers. A third kind of theme is where various clues specifically refer to one key clue.

50. As a novice to his parsing thing I find nutmeg a walk in the park, because the answer is obvious 80% of the time so its a write in as for not knowing about tog rating where have these people been

51. Many thanks essexboy @47 (and Lord Jim @49). That’s a really helpful list which I think could/should be more widely publicised somewhere appropriate on Fifteensquared for the benefit of all Grauniad cruciverbal enthusiasts. Does anybody know who might make my suggestion come to fruition?

52. Amua is city inNigeria so at 19d I put TRAUMA. Silly me!

53. muffin @2; although oxidate is archaic, there is such a word as oxidating. The advantage of electronic versions of dictionaries is that they show an expanded list of words. So, Chambers, Collins and the ODE all show OXIDATING as a word.

54. Thanks for the blog, very fed up of themes and not my sort of puzzle today, however I just want to praise the incredible squirrelling properties of MrEssexboy . We are not worthy.

55. Naming themes.
    Traditional theme – Paul/Araucaria etc , one numbered clue referred to often by other theme entries.
    Ghost theme – Like today , no reference to a theme in any of the clues.
    Annoying theme – A theme in the clues as written, not necessarily in the answers.
    Nuclear theme – Named by Dr WhatsOn , a lot of ghost theme answers not referred to except for one unifying clue- Something like – Blah blah blah ( typical clue ) plus 14 other answers here .
    This clue then invites you to search out the other theme answers

56. A toughie for me, got all of bottom half and a couple of top half and had to bail. Ah well.

    An observation and a question if I may: for the first time I looked at the printable PDF version (I usually just use the app) and was surprised to see two down clues that differed between the digital and PDF versions:

    3 down PRETTY WELL
    – Attractive means of getting a drink, more or less (app/site)
    – Fair fit, more or less (PDF)

    16 down OFFSHORE
    – Not keen on horse trained overseas (app/site)
    – Spoilt son promoted in cavalry based abroad (PDF)

    Not sure which clues the old-fashioned paper-paper had though.

    Anyway – I know it’s the Grauniad, but is this kind of clue mismatch at all common?!

57. I only ever look at the paper, it has the first version for both of these. I would not imagine it is very common.

58. Rob T @56
    Except if a faulty clue has been corrected, I’ve never heard of this happening. The paper-paper has the app/site clues.

59. Valentine@41 It’s news to me that a DANDy is a comicDandy here is not a person, but a child’s comic. It has a sister comic called The Beano, both published in Dundee, where you can see statues of some of the more favourite characters: Desperate Dan and Mini the Minx.

    Thanks to Nutmeg who has restored by ability to enjoy a crossword after yesterday’s offering; and to Eileen for the blog

60. @3 Essex Boy: in basketball, an AIR BALL is a shot that fails to touch any part of the rim

61. Rob T @56 – slightly late response: I’ve been out at a family birthday celebration.
    How odd! I’ve never needed to look at the pdf version. I solve the daily puzzle in the paper version, when it arrives through my letterbox, except for my blogging days, as today, when I have to solve and write a draft blog in the early hours from the online version, which becomes available for us at midnight GMT. For the blog, I copy and paste the print version, which, today, was identical to the online / paper versions.
    I’m really intrigued as to the different versions and the reasons for them, with no apparent explanation.
    I think, maybe, the pdf clues are slightly more cryptic and, maybe, if pushed, I might say I preferred them, but the discrepancy is a bit of a mystery
    Can anyone shed any light?.

62. [Eileen: If you’re still around give the Eccles crossword in the Indy a look. I think you will love some of clues.]

63. Thanks, Tony. I’ve been struggling to find time all day to try the Eccles (one of my favourites) puzzle.
    Rather tired just now – see above – but hope to give it a go!

64. Andrew T @60 – I thought there might be one or two more!

    And thanks Roz @54 – I might change my moniker to theincrediblesquirrel. It may not be Wagnerian-heroic, but it is appropriately suggestive of a certain obsessiveness and nuttiness.

65. DavidW @50. Talk about nostalgia for the Empire. Where have people been to not hear of tog rating? The rest of the world, outside of Little England.

66. Well, a DNF for me today, I missed TOG RATING (probably because I like to sleep under just a sheet – a habit which Mrs “Laccaria” deplores!). A shame because Nutmeg is one of the fairest setters – I hate to leave her unfinished.
    Not sure about 7d: I suppose homophones are always going to work for one person and not work for the next. Perhaps my RP accent is a handicap – must brush up on my Eschewry Inglush – if that’s the key.

67. Pretty straightforward though I couldn’t parse DOORKEEPER and BERATE … like Eileen looking at belate.

    Strange theme which I didn’t get of course.

    Thanks both

68. Delightful. And to think, without essexboy, the wondrous icing on this cake may have gone unnoticed. It strikes me that either Nutmeg has no ego (and doesn’t care if her efforts are not lauded) and/or has a generous presumption of her solvers’ percipience. (The former is likely true give that Nutmeg is not a man!)
    Many thanks N, E and eb

69. Late to the party after resorting to the reveal button. TOG RATING is not a term in New Zealand. Over here togs are what you call trunks, so revealing the solution prompted an unfortunate flashback to Tramps testicles.
    Thanks Eileen & Nutmeg.

70. Very late, I know but can someone help explain CONTEST = BEE?
    Thanks

71. HIYD @70 A Spelling Bee, or a Sewing Bee. Not sure why it means a competition, but those are two of the examples in common use. In fact the Great British Sewing Bee was on BBC2 last night, and very good too.

    I am creeping in late to thank Eileen for parsing BRITPOP & BERATE for me. I didn’t know about RIT, although I suspect it would have come up if I googled it. Unfortunately I had got stuck on looking at TIR. Doh!

    BERATE, I too was looking at changing the R for L, but unlike Eileen didn’t look at it differently, despite going back to it several times.

    And I just didn’t get ORTHODOX, but love it now!

    I

72. Even later thanks from me Eileen (I only got the NW filled this morning), again for parsing BRITPOP, and to essexboy for the elemental spot, very sharp. Hoofit@70: Moth has covered the competitive element of BEE (the spelling contest is a big thing in the US, I think there was even a film about it), it can also mean a friendly meeting/get together which is possibly more often the case for sewing bees – Enigmatist beat me with that meaning a while ago and I have managed to remember it so far but not seen it used again. Loved the puzzle, thanks Nutmeg.

73. Getting a bit behind on this week’s crosswords, so only finished this one after breakfast today. I say finished, but what I mean is gave up with ORTHODOX still unsolved. And I think it would have remained unsolved until next Christmas, so I’m glad I came here. It’s not just the (non)homophone, but I can’t see ‘links up’ for DOX (docks). Are we talking about the LEM docking with the command module? I see that Chambers has this as a meaning, but I don’t remember “link up” ever being used in that context, and I followed the moon landings pretty closely in my youth.

    Of course I never saw the “theme” either, but I won’t say anything about essexboy, as his head is no doubt still swollen after all the praise yesterday. 🙂

    Thanks to Nutmeg, Eileen and essexboy.

74. Like @9 Hovis, I wanted to put tirade which is a much better answer than berate for 1dn, but obviously couldn’t work with 2dn. That along with the obscure “RIT” IN 1ac was annoying. 7dn and 5dn were far too contrived and just give the impression of someone trying be too clever by half. Such a shame because I always look forward to her puzzles, but lately Nutmeg seems to be channeling Paul.

75. Thanks Moth @71

76. Really felt lost with this one. Completed a day late with some guessing and couldn’t parse 1A (but now I have learnt ‘rit’, at least for today), 5 (clever now that it’s explained to me – rose as in baking I suppose), 14, or 1D. Thanks Eileen for the explanations.

    Was doubtful about 9 – is auditor needed in the clue? 11 – a bit contrived for the first definition and 8 – a simple question might give an easy mark, a simple test would give easy marks (unless it was a one question test, in which case it would not really be marked, just right or wrong).

    24 was LOI. I am sorry to say that I have been to a number of balls that were anything but a good time; a hazard of my ex-profession.

    Well done (belatedly) to essexboy!

    Interesting input @56 RobT. I only ever look at the online version. In this case, I prefer the online clues to the pdf ones (not sure about cavalry = horse) so maybe the online version is a revised and improved version sometimes? Or is that just my prejudice about the two clues?

    Thanks Nutmeg and Eileen.

77. Paul @76. “Having a ball” and “having a good time” are synonymous – but although referring to a BALL as in a dance, as you say, it is a conventional “good time”, rather than one you can necessarily recall yourself. 🙂

    Yes, ‘auditor’ is needed in the clue because REVUE and ‘review’ are not the same word, they only *sound* the same. (Although they are fairly close: the English word revue meaning a show comes from the French for review, which also came into English from the French, but at a different time and with a different meaning and use.)

    I agree that the first definition in 11a seems contrived, but the word ‘particular’ is needed because the answer includes THE; if the clue read ‘select a song’ this could lead to TAKE AN AIR instead. I tend to agree with you about 8d.

78. greyfox@51 There is someone you could contact about storing the description of setters and themes posted here by essexboy@47, Lord Jim@49 and Roz @55 🙂
    The new administrator is kenmac, now that Gaufrid has unfortunately had to retire.
    See his post and tribute to Gaufrid for contact details.

    https://www.fifteensquared.net/2022/06/09/fifteensquared-administration-change-of-guard/

    In the meantime, I’m bookmarking this. 🙂

79. [Sorry Roz, didn’t mean to put the smiley face next to your name, but you did make me smile.]

80. Sheffield Hatter @77 many thanks for taking the time to help my understanding. I can add auditor to the list of words indicating a homonym. Absolutely right about ‘having a ball’ as a phrase in general use and I have no quibbles with the clue or answer; its just my personal experience that makes my brain refuse to equate it with ‘having a good time’. Much appreciated that you (and others previously) have helped this beginner get to grips with the nuances of cryptic crosswording.

81. Great puzzle but completed a long time after its publication! Just wanted to thank Nutmeg and Eileen.

82. As Tutukaka Paul has pointed out, tog rating is not a thing in New Zealand, and an oxidation pond is an area of waste water left to absorb oxygen. Nothing to do with oxidising, corrosion or rust.

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